Final Fantasy XV (was Versus XIII)

[Glaurung]

I'm curious. Among his deleted posts you saw, do you remember ever seeing artwork of his such as these pieces here?

This discussion has really made me start looking at some of the info that existed on Versus XIII because this is like... A rabbit hole of lost information and unrealized potential regarding an unused concept/story. And it's so weird because it existed during a time I was peak into FF so I find it so fascinating to see how much changed and what would have been compared to what ended up as a synthesis of the original concepts and Tabata's own take on the story and draft concept. And God, I fucking remember hearing about Final Fantasy Haeresis XIII... What the hell happened to THAT???

Reading this master post of all the material that was released on Versus XIII is fucking wow. Like, there was so much that was meant to be included that either got scrapped, changed, left alone, or diminished in relevancy. Like, I can't believe such a huge project was enacted yet not properly managed. I'm gonna read through these interviews again to see because this is as close to a documentary on Versus XIII as one can get. It's fucking intense how much there was to this yet it never even came to be.

I sorta can see now how Nomura would carry this huge fixation on this project after holding it for years.. Like a ghost holding onto its attachment to something. Yet, I definitely can see the burden and heavy lifting Tabata had to carry in making something get born from all of this, that could be a game which could be released in time.

...And then I found this post here. Which I have not seen before. It's apparently the final outline of what Versus XIII's story would have been before it was changed to Tabata's vision and made XV. And holy fucking shit. This is far more detailed than anything I read before. Has anyone heard of this before?

If anyone hasn't read that before, you should because it's fascinating as hell. And I don't know what to think of it. I'm sorta ambivalent on it. One one hand that sounds really fascinating and something I certainly would have enjoyed, maybe more than the overall story of XV. However, I found the way XV used Ardyn's character and development far more appealing than how they used him here in Versus XIII. I think his development in XV did him a far greater service than VsXIII would have. Same for Noctis, I believe. But overall the use of the FNC mythos sounds fascinating.

@Ryuman have you heard of this draft of the story before? Can you comment on if it's real or likely?

That draft post was very interesting, though I'm quite wary after reading the comments following it about it being hearsay. I had heard rumors about one of the chocobros sacrificing himself at the end, though.

The plot seems plausible, and very much what I think Nomura would do with a game, just because the daemons being born of raw emotions reek of Kingdom Hearts, plus the convoluted story with a gazillion twists and turns.

I won't argue that this could have been an interesting game, but I pretty much prefer what we ended up playing with XV, once it was actually finished. In XV, Noctis anger at his father exists because Regis didn't let Noctis fight at his side, instead of the typical "I hate my old man for what he did", like Tidus and so many other videogame and anime characters. Also the tone of the story, with the Chocobros being four friends, fleshed out as they were. In Versus their relationship seemed more strained.

I don't know, as much as I like Nomura, he falls too often into anime tropes, and XV story was more mature and deep.

 

[Ryuman]

I'm curious. Among his deleted posts you saw, do you remember ever seeing artwork of his such as these pieces here?

He wasn't posting images, it was more of a semi-rant about how much of his art created during Versus was either scrapped or changed. He was talking about previous designs, characters and plot elements. i.e. Gentiana design and her being a go-to point between Stella and Noctis; Umbra and the Royal Ninjas; Ardyn design musings; Aranea having two others in her military Dragoon squad- Biggs and Wedge. He gave light details on the pre-2010 team (which he was not a part of) where he says he replaced another designer who wasn't getting her work approved by the art director. He gave the famous comment about the state of the project in 2013 where the story was changing every 3 months and they had a 2014 release window.

I wasn't part of the 2010 group from XIII that "would have scatched their bellies" (and then turned into the XV one), i came into May 2010. I know i was called in when a (female) designer resigned since she wasn't able to get any kind of approval from the art director. Then, from 2010 till the end of 2011 i worked on the designs i got assigned with, without any big issues. That's why, when the team got resized from 200 workers to around 20 in 2012 (right before the arrival of Tabata and the Type-0 team), i was still there and worked with the newcomers till 2013. Then i left because i followed mister Nomura.
I had no story planned for Gentiana, but i can confirm you that the writers changed the script i received in 2011.
[...] I stand behind what Sakaguchi said about big budget games developement: it's not worth it anymore. But they are also very disorganized. The staff -200 souls- had to work when the story still wasn't completely definied. In fact, this story kept changing every 3 months and the definitive delivery date for the game was for the end of 2014 (who would have thought it would have been pushed back to November 2016?).

The images there already include their source in the thread. It was an exhibition-like event post-XV that included materials from across development.
The actual images themselves originate from an internal storyboard presentation in May 30th 2013, created by Ferrari. He discussed it once before with a similar image to one of the ones on this collage.

And don't think there is much value in discussing supposed story leaks. After the game came out many people showed up with their 'true original Versus plot' leaks. It was easy to work in known scrapped details for legitimacy. One of the other well known 'leaks' proposed Stella was dead the whole time, killed by Noctis who had no memory of it, and all scenes of her were just a vision or something.

 

[Firstone33]

Well nomura was so focused on kingdom hearts 3 at the time, but that did not stop him from helping with xv in fact he is the reason Noctis got into Dissidia in the first place he is also credited for several stuff of square with final fantasy, xv being one of them he is credited for despite not being active. One of the developers back in 2015 confirmed that nomura was too focused on kh3 so they got the other best person to work on xv aka tabata who I think is like nomura a goddamn genius and made xv one of the greatest games in ff history

I can't speak for Nomura, but I can speak as someone who followed Versus for a long time. Trying to learn more about the project than someone probably should and reading a multitude of interviews, it doesn't seem that hard to understand his headspace.

First off, is it not surprising that someone would in any way be disappointed if a project they had a significant role in forming was handed off to someone else? Even if most of the details were the same, it's still something that was taken away from you. And that's just if the project went through minimal changes. I think it's fair to say the shift from Nomura to Tabata was at least a little more drastic than that. It's clear that the change in directors wasn't as amicable as Square want you to believe it was. Some of his earliest comments on the subject were non-answers and stressing that it was the company's decision. During the Kingdom Hearts 2.5 launch event in December of 2014 (One year after Tabata officially becoming director internally; three months after the public announcement and re-re-reveal) he explained that there had been a lot going on in his life during that past year and he had gotten pet cats to help him out of the slump caused by it. Not really hard to figure out what he was referring to. Things didn't seem to be that much better company-wide, as evidenced by Nomura himself, who claimed Versus XIII was at some point a taboo phrase internally during a Dissidia stream late last year.

You might find it silly, but if you're in that position where you spend a great deal of time working hard on something you're probably bound to form a kind of attachment. In this case it seemed to have been rather strong. Even if your interpretation of the ordeal is that he was too wishy-washy and unfocused to get things done properly, you can't really deny that it must have been many years of stressful work regardless. It was his only other project that he was purely the director of aside from the Kingdom Hearts series, and he actually considered Sora and Noctis to be sons of his, in a way.

KH and Versus go hand in hand, actually. During the days of Dream Drop Distance development he was keen to discuss the kind of relationship the two had. Ideas that didn't work in one went in to the other, and there was a sense of friendly rivalry between the teams. It's not really surprising that it ultimately ended up feeding back into KH this way. Had things gone differently, you'd probably see Noctis in a KH game now. But that's the thing. Noctis isn't really his character anymore. It's out of his hands. The first time he made any illustration and significant mention of Noctis post-removal was Dissidia Arcade/NT, not something he could really avoid. He's probably far removed from Noctis as a character at this point.

Even though there is a lot I think I could say, this post is getting a little too lengthy for my liking. Not to mention my sleep is lacking atm and a lot of the things I'm pulling out from my dusty mental closet have been slowly escaping my brain as I wrote this. So I don't really feel capable of doing a closer examination that would be structured and read well. Maybe another time. What's most important to keep in mind is that Yozora isn't really Noctis, and no matter how blatantly Nomura alludes to Versus/XV, the final application will be themes and concepts applied in a way that works with the Kingdom Hearts universe and the direction Nomura wishes to take it in.

 

[looneymoon]

would you say that, in Nomura's eyes...

Tabata is the Somnus to Nomura's Ardyn

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Probably.

Meanwhile, the rest of us know Nomura is the Sephiroth's pride to Nomura's Sephiroth.

 

[looneymoon]

little late to the party, but I decided to finish off XV in anticipation of the remake.

Playing through episode Ardyn is like... I feel like I would be more sympathetic to this character if it didn't start out with him looking like every other vancouver bum trying to sell me essential oils and home made vegan cleaning supplies.

 

[Makoeyes987]

That Bohemian bum energy Ardyn carries is the best!

I love his faux affability that masks his bitter, cutting sarcastic wit. Combined with his hollow civility which masks pure seething, hatred and rage he's like... The perfect exhibit of churning, molten madness that quakes beneath the surface.

On the outside Ardyn appears in control. Poised. Proper. With a dash unassuming eccentricity. But deep down he's a broken man. And not just broken in the depressed, heartbreaking sense of the word. But broken in terms of his mind. He's lost it, and if you push him far enough, he'll be gladly show you.

 

[Glaurung]

My reactions to Ardyn went from "I want this guy dead" during that throne scene in KG, to "Ok, you are a worthy enemy" at the end of XV, to incoherent blubber at the end of the anime short, to an overwhelming need to

Spoiler

give Bahamut a million, most painful deaths.

 

[Lulcielid]

Online functionality for FFXV Multiplayer: Comrades for Steam and Origins (no word on consoles) will be terminated on June 23. You still can play offline with NPCs.

Other stuff being terminated on PC:

• Everything related to the Avatara system
• For the Mod Organizer, online build functionality, however offline build functionality will be provided via an update. The date for this update is unknown.
  
  

 

[Cappuccino]

I'm currently playing this and I absolutely hate that ignis is blind. I really hope he gets his sight back at the end. If he does, dont spoil me!

I know the story telling was flawed but I agree with critics that this is a 8 out of 10 game. I'm having a lot of fun playing it.

 

[Glaurung]

I'm currently playing this and I absolutely hate that ignis is blind. I really hope he gets his sight back at the end. If he does, dont spoil me!

I know the story telling was flawed but I agree with critics that this is a 8 out of 10 game. I'm having a lot of fun playing it.

Ah yes, the chocobro with the prettiest eyes goes blind. I know your pain :,D

Tell us when you finish the game!

 

[LNK]

I'm currently playing this and I absolutely hate that ignis is blind. I really hope he gets his sight back at the end. If he does, dont spoil me!

I know the story telling was flawed but I agree with critics that this is a 8 out of 10 game. I'm having a lot of fun playing it.

Are you playing the day one edition? Or the Royal?

 

[Cappuccino]

Are you playing the day one edition? Or the Royal?

Just the regular edition.

 

[LNK]

Royal Edition does add more to the game, but standard is still good. One thing I thought was cool with the day one edition was the Astrals spoke in a language that was not English. At least until there was a patch that changed it

 

[Wol]

Just the regular edition.

you can buy the Royal content separately if you're interested, it's well worth the money and enhances the game quite a bit (lore, new minigames, new fight mode, expanded final dungeon, etc. )

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Royal Edition does add more to the game, but standard is still good. One thing I thought was cool with the day one edition was the Astrals spoke in a language that was not English. At least until there was a patch that changed it

I think they still do, except for Bahamut.

 

[Glaurung]

The Astrals definitely speak in another language, save for Bahamut.

@Cappuccino, try to play all the DLCs if you can. They are fun, plus they add a LOT to the storyline. Perhaps Gladiolus' is not that important storywise, but you get cool stuff in the main game for finishing that DLC.

 

[Wol]

In terms of DLC, personal order of priority (top to bottom)

Royal Pack
Episode Ardyn
Episode Ignis
Episode Prompto
Episode Gladiolus

....

Episode Luna (if ever existed :p)

 

[ForceStealer]

^And Prompto and Gladio work fine to play where they slot into the story, but Ignis should definitely not be played until after you beat the story since it spoils everything.

Ardyn I'm not sure if it's better to play before or after the game...

 

[looneymoon]

I think it's probably better to do Ardyn after? The lore is so poorly presented in FF15, and episode Ardyn goes into the most. You're probably gonna have the urge to google what shit means/wtf is exactly going on anyway, so it's probably best to do that being fully aware of what happens in the story.

 

[Lulcielid]

Or for a more easy way, just play them in their release order.

 

[Glaurung]

Episode Ardyn must be played the last.

The main reason is that you get two very different reading of the canon ending before and after you get to know what really happened to Ardyn.

 

[ForceStealer]

Episode Ardyn must be played the last.

The main reason is that you get two very different reading of the canon ending before and after you get to know what really happened to Ardyn.

I think it's probably better to do Ardyn after? The lore is so poorly presented in FF15, and episode Ardyn goes into the most. You're probably gonna have the urge to google what shit means/wtf is exactly going on anyway, so it's probably best to do that being fully aware of what happens in the story.

But this is kind of why I waffle on wondering if you should play Ardyn first, because you get all that lore about hte world in not!Hojo's lab that would have been SO FREAKING USEFUL to have when actually playing through the game.

 

[LNK]

I think they still do, except for Bahamut.

Thanks for the correction. I thought since Bahamut was changed to English, the others were changed as well. My memory is ify sometimes

Spoiler

episode Ardyn confused me with the battle against Regis. Did Ardyn wipe Regis memory of their fight, afterwards? Because in Kingsglaive, they hadn't met yet.

Also, the battles against the Lucii in RE were cool, but they seemed to screw with the story to add them in. Unless I missed something. Was it ever explained when Ardyn had corrupted them? Cause in Kingsglaive, they were all there when Nyx put the ring on.

 

[Tetsujin]

Spoiler

Didn't Ardyn take on the guise of a random soldier or something? I was under the impression that essentially only the player sees him as Ardyn.