Final Fantasy XV (was Versus XIII)
- Thread starter Arianna
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Blade
That Man
- AKA
- Darkside-Ky/Mimeblade
^See, there's this inversely proportional rule that "if one company can do something with another company that's cool, it's expected that the opposite company can do the same cool thing"... but in most cases that's almost never true.
Case in point: Capcom VS SNK.... and SNK VS Capcom (SVC Chaos).
Another case in point: Tekken 7.... and Street Fighter X Tekken....
Crossovers have... maybe... a 50/50 chance of working out... but most of the time they don't.
Usually the more "successful" a crossover is, the more BUDGET is behind it.
And let's not forget the mashup that is Dead or Alive and it's tons and tons of costumes.
Then there's Marvel VS Capcom... which has been successful.... maybe twice?
MvC1 > Mixed
MvC2 > Success
MvC3 > Fail
UMvC3 > Redeemed but still Fail
MvCI > mixed but mostly fail
And let's not forget Kingdom Hearts... while I've never played them in earnest... I'm sure it's not 100% positive reviews.
Case in point: Capcom VS SNK.... and SNK VS Capcom (SVC Chaos).
Another case in point: Tekken 7.... and Street Fighter X Tekken....
Crossovers have... maybe... a 50/50 chance of working out... but most of the time they don't.
Usually the more "successful" a crossover is, the more BUDGET is behind it.
And let's not forget the mashup that is Dead or Alive and it's tons and tons of costumes.
Then there's Marvel VS Capcom... which has been successful.... maybe twice?
MvC1 > Mixed
MvC2 > Success
MvC3 > Fail
UMvC3 > Redeemed but still Fail
MvCI > mixed but mostly fail
And let's not forget Kingdom Hearts... while I've never played them in earnest... I'm sure it's not 100% positive reviews.
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ForceStealer
Double Growth
People get way too touchy about crossovers. They are demonstrably fine.
And using MvC and Kingdom Hearts to dispute that is pretty lulzy
And using MvC and Kingdom Hearts to dispute that is pretty lulzy
Kionae
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Desha
Personally, I love crossovers (and am a huge Kingdom Hearts fan). But this one in Assassin's Creed Origins was just... meh. It took all of five minutes, if that, to complete, and all you got for it was a quick cutscene with no explanation (or voice acting), and some new gear.
Meanwhile, FFXV got a whole Assassin's Creed festival to run around in, and while maybe not the most astounding content, it was still pretty neat and gave you something to do.
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
Some random fun stuff to share:
- Noct warp-striking while confused
- New dialogue added for leaving Pitioss before and after completing it
- Noct warp-striking while confused
- New dialogue added for leaving Pitioss before and after completing it
lithiumkatana17
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Lith
Bwahahah 'my brain hurts'.
Dude my fucking SOUL hurt after completing that fucking labyrinth. Fuck Pitioss and its bullshit for the rest of my fucking LIFE!
Blade
That Man
- AKA
- Darkside-Ky/Mimeblade
Since apparently not many people are familiar with fighting games:
While Capcom VS SNK 2 was remotely successful, its counterpart SVC Chaos was badly drawn as far as sprites go, loads of hit detection bugs, and the game was even less balanced, having been produced by SNK during its low period where sprites were low quality due to budget restraints.
Tekken 7 has been mostly positive, but Street Fighter X Tekken was a failure mostly because of its DLC and unbalanced mechanics.
Marvel VS Capcom 2, while the most recognized of the games in the series, was originally built for an Arcade setting, so when games like MvC3 came out for game consoles, they were prepping for things like DLC and other gimmicks that weren't all that well thought out (Dictator Magneto for example), not to mention balance issues that were hard to resolve because of the 3 on 3 Team match setup and Assist mechanics that didn't have many variables. (Tier lists in Capcom games are way more apparent than most other games in the genre).
So while they tried to fix that in Ultimate Marvel VS Capcom 3, it... uh.... still didn't balance out very well.
Marvel VS Capcom Infinite had lukewarm reception (as did Street Fighter V with it's missing arcade mode).
Now we have an upcoming game like BlazBlue Crosstag Battle... which, as far as we can see is very polished, BUT.... you can't say that a company like French Bread (Under Night In-Birth / Melty Blood) could produce a BlazBlue crossover game of the same caliber without getting help and money.
POINT BEING: Crossovers look awesome on paper, but not all companies can do them or afford to.
So yeah... even if you LIKE a crossover, chances are, if another company tried to reverse-engineer it, it wouldn't be the same. (for example: if Disney tried to make a Final Fantasy RPG instead of Square-Enix... who KNOWS what would happen... so it's often better for Squeenix to just make Kingdom Hearts instead of someone else).
Tekken 7's DLC with Akuma and Geese evoke memories of Capcom VS SNK 2, but at the same time, it's STILL Tekken in nature, so that was deeply considered. Same expectation for Noctis in Tekken as well.
By contrast, in-series (same company) crossovers are by and large more successful... like Dissidia, Smash Bros, Tales of Versus, Gundam Versus, Dragonball FighterZ, because the formula stays relatively the same.
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Edley
Pray for Sound
- AKA
- Issac Dian, Dudley, Chev Chelios
This has probably been discussed before, but
did Lunafreya know Ardyn was the accursed before she touched his arm? Seems like pretty relevant information for Gentiana to share. As evidenced by the train sequence, the Glacian definitely knows who he is.
If defeating him is the key to saving the world, one would think the Astrals would point him out to the one responsible for communication between the divine and the mortal. What reason would Gentiana have for witholding this knowledge? If Luna did know prior and chose not to share this info with Regis, Ravus, or Noctis it's pretty baffling.
If defeating him is the key to saving the world, one would think the Astrals would point him out to the one responsible for communication between the divine and the mortal. What reason would Gentiana have for witholding this knowledge? If Luna did know prior and chose not to share this info with Regis, Ravus, or Noctis it's pretty baffling.
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
At the very least,
she knew he was caked in the scourge. As to how much she knew and when, your guess is as good as mine, though I don't think telling Noct would have changed anything.
ultima espio
Pro Adventurer
From Twitter:
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
If Santa were the type to come down the chimney and shit in your sink.
Blade
That Man
- AKA
- Darkside-Ky/Mimeblade
Yeah, but even so, it's happened too often for it not to not be a concern with any crossover between devs with different fiscal situations.
Well anyway, if anyone is "Santa" in FFXV, it's Cid, for all the weapon upgrades he gives you.
X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
Is this a spoiler, guys?
Remind me again, why does it have a crack in it?
It's not. It's been that way since we saw it in Kingsglaive in Insomnia
X
Tashasaurous
Tash for Short
- AKA
- Sailor Moon, Mini Moon, Hotaru, Cardcaptor Sakura, Meilin, Xion, Kairi, Aqua, Tifa, Aerith, Yuffie, Elena, Misty, May, Dawn, Casey, Fiona, Ellie
Thought of something that might've been better explained than it was in Episode Ignis Verse-2...which after watching it again, as I hate to admit it, I'm starting to like the Alternate ending better despite everything being much of confusing than the original.
Came up with my own little theory of how Verse-2 turned out. After
Ooookay, that sounded more suited for a fanfic, but I think this sounds like a bit of sense.
Came up with my own little theory of how Verse-2 turned out. After
Ardyn knocks out Ignis and takes him to Gralea, Ravus takes Noctis, Gladio and Prompto to head there, but end up attacked and taken to the facility where Prompto learns of his true past like he did in Episode Prompto in the original time-line and despite the doubts, Noct and Gladio still accept him as their friend and with the aid of Ravus and Arena, they stop Verstael and Immortalis before finally arriving to Gralea where they fight and kill the Emperor dude with Ravus holding him back while the trio arrive just after Iggy defeats Ardyn.
Ten years later after training to aid Noct to stop the Starscourge, they learn that a price must still be payed and Ravus volunteers to join them. So the price being, after the group defeat and destroy Ardyn is that should Noctis survive in using the power of the Crystal and the Lucii, one life must take his place in death to stop the Starscourge.
That's where Ravus comes in as he sacrifices himself to keep Noctis alive, knowing that the latter will give Eos hope and rebuild the world. He and Lunafreya then get aid from Noctis who has destroyed Arydn's spirit with the aid of his friends and the Kings of Lucis to stop the Starscourge for good and Luna then promises Noct they will see each other again someday.
So all four heroes survive and that maybe Ignis is just greeting now King Noctis in the morning as an royal advisor while Prompto and Gladio are out doing their new jobs as Crownsguards and the latter being the King's Shield.
Ten years later after training to aid Noct to stop the Starscourge, they learn that a price must still be payed and Ravus volunteers to join them. So the price being, after the group defeat and destroy Ardyn is that should Noctis survive in using the power of the Crystal and the Lucii, one life must take his place in death to stop the Starscourge.
That's where Ravus comes in as he sacrifices himself to keep Noctis alive, knowing that the latter will give Eos hope and rebuild the world. He and Lunafreya then get aid from Noctis who has destroyed Arydn's spirit with the aid of his friends and the Kings of Lucis to stop the Starscourge for good and Luna then promises Noct they will see each other again someday.
So all four heroes survive and that maybe Ignis is just greeting now King Noctis in the morning as an royal advisor while Prompto and Gladio are out doing their new jobs as Crownsguards and the latter being the King's Shield.
Ooookay, that sounded more suited for a fanfic, but I think this sounds like a bit of sense.
Lulcielid
Eyes of the Lord
- AKA
- Lulcy
I really did not like Chapter 3 Verse 2,
It feels like a high-budget fanfiction. The lore about Ardyn was cool and all, but that's about the only good thing about it.
First of all, the whole premise is just bizarre and kind of nonsensical. Why would Ardyn even expect Ignis to come with him? And then he gets him all the way to Gralea unconscious? And Noct and crew are almost already there? So Ignis was just passed out for months?
And then the ending is just super-happy, happy-happy, everyone lives happily ever after. It goes against the whole theme of sacrifice this DLC and the game as a whole has been going for. It just undermines the whole "doing your duty, no matter the cost, because it's for the greater good" aspect.
This is what makes feel the most like fanfiction. I'm fine with a happier ending, but this is just overkill and doesn't even make sense. Ravus lives, ok I can buy that. Noctis becomes a Jesus and brings Ignis back from death... And then Noctis doesn't die when using the Light of Providence, because the narrativr doesn't need to make sense anymore. I was half expecting Luna to inexplicably come back in the end. I think it would have been far better if Ignis had died, basically giving up his life for Noct's. That would have stayed thematically consistent, made at least a bit more sense and maintained the bittersweet tone.
First of all, the whole premise is just bizarre and kind of nonsensical. Why would Ardyn even expect Ignis to come with him? And then he gets him all the way to Gralea unconscious? And Noct and crew are almost already there? So Ignis was just passed out for months?
And then the ending is just super-happy, happy-happy, everyone lives happily ever after. It goes against the whole theme of sacrifice this DLC and the game as a whole has been going for. It just undermines the whole "doing your duty, no matter the cost, because it's for the greater good" aspect.
This is what makes feel the most like fanfiction. I'm fine with a happier ending, but this is just overkill and doesn't even make sense. Ravus lives, ok I can buy that. Noctis becomes a Jesus and brings Ignis back from death... And then Noctis doesn't die when using the Light of Providence, because the narrativr doesn't need to make sense anymore. I was half expecting Luna to inexplicably come back in the end. I think it would have been far better if Ignis had died, basically giving up his life for Noct's. That would have stayed thematically consistent, made at least a bit more sense and maintained the bittersweet tone.
Ryuman
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Pointlessname, Pointer
I thought it was crap too but to be fair
Ardyn clearly has teleporting powers to get anywhere and it was explained that Ravus hitched them a ride straight to Gralea (Probably by airship). Though, that begs the question of why Aranea couldn't do the same thing when she turned good. Maybe there was a reason. I can't remember.
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
I really like your elaboration on that ending, Tash. Very nice.
As to your comments, Lulcy,
As to your comments, Lulcy,
I can see the point about Iggy dying in Noct's place making for a good alternate version that remains thematically consistent. The truth is, though, someone else -- like Ravus -- really may have taken Noctis's place in that reality. Or maybe they just figured out a way to defeat the scourge that didn't require an arbitrary death.
Honestly, the only thing that "never made sense" to me (I put that in quotation marks because it still makes sense just fine in terms of these being the rules the plot demanded) is that ridding the planet of the scourge did require a sacrifice. We're talking about what is ultimately just a biological infestation. And it was really only killed in the mainline universe by what amounted to hitting it with a really powerful bug bomb. This was all less magic-y than science-y anyway.
In any case, it's an alternate ending for a reason.
Honestly, the only thing that "never made sense" to me (I put that in quotation marks because it still makes sense just fine in terms of these being the rules the plot demanded) is that ridding the planet of the scourge did require a sacrifice. We're talking about what is ultimately just a biological infestation. And it was really only killed in the mainline universe by what amounted to hitting it with a really powerful bug bomb. This was all less magic-y than science-y anyway.
In any case, it's an alternate ending for a reason.
ForceStealer
Double Growth
Right, regardless of verse 2's quality
Noctis having to die was only ever arbitrary. It was "because Bahamut said so."
Frankly, I have never liked those kinds of sad endings. Those that were simply contrived to be that way rather than derived naturally from the plot. Tidus' fate at the end of X is a good example of the latter. It was established thoroughly throughout the game what the fayth were, what they were doing. What Tidus is, and why their victory would result in his disappearance. That's a much better way to create a bittersweet ending than "Bahamut said so." It doesn't matter how "thematically consistent" it is if the story itself doesn't justify it.
Frankly, I have never liked those kinds of sad endings. Those that were simply contrived to be that way rather than derived naturally from the plot. Tidus' fate at the end of X is a good example of the latter. It was established thoroughly throughout the game what the fayth were, what they were doing. What Tidus is, and why their victory would result in his disappearance. That's a much better way to create a bittersweet ending than "Bahamut said so." It doesn't matter how "thematically consistent" it is if the story itself doesn't justify it.