[Game Complete] Pushing It to the Thirteenth Hour: My Step by Step Impressions of Final Fantasy XIII.

[Alessa Gillespie]

I guess it's because there's no lolis available as main characters, so they resort to shotacon as the second best thing.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Alright guys, update coming soon, if only to shut this shipping/loli/whatever shit down before it starts.

 

[ForceStealer]

Well now we know how to make MOG update. Lets take the LTD to the Towns of FF7 thread

 

[Max Payne]

You're asking for trouble. He'll get his homies mako and tres to do a drive by on ya.

 

[Makoeyes987]

UPDATE THIS SHIT

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Still no update from the dude with the pom pom on his head, so I feel no shame in responding to this:

Gapra Whitewood is the worst part. I hate Hope and Lightning together. Don't know why.

I love their scenes together, tell you the truth. Theirs is a great love story.

For the record, no, I'm not a fan of that pairing. And to preempt all of the "But you like VincentxShelke" responses I know are coming: Go fuck yaself.

Maybe give it several years and let's see Hope and Lightning interact again as adults. Maybe then I would have a different opinion.

It may have become Japan's newest darling, but it's not mine.

ShelkexVincent still FTW, though.

 

[Joker]

I need an update.

Also, I'm going to buy the fuck out of this game. I like challenging battles, I like upgrading/farming/grinding, and I like shitloads of cutscenes (MGS, Xenosaga, etc).

Fuck. Yes.

 

[ForceStealer]

You might wanna hide any of your contact info from Mako.

(but the cutscenes aren't anywhere near the prevalence of Xenosaga and Metal Gear. They're frequent, but not nearly so long.)

 

[Joker]

Why would I do that? Besides the obvious, ofc

And they're not?

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Nah, they're not that long. Though, uh, why would you want them to be? I have nothing against long cutscenes, but Xenosaga was really pushing it. Wouldn't you rather play the game itself?

 

[Celes Chere]

The amount of pron/fanart of them as a couple as opposed to what I thought would make japan crazy (the oerbas) is disturbing.

I've seen a lot of Hope x Snow in Yaoi land. <=( Wtf. That makes me sick to my stomach. (Then I imagined Snow driving a white van, and offering him some 'candy'.)

Hope - shipping just isn't right, what is wrong with people. T_T Lightning and Vanille are like, the freaking babysitters for him. Since I got curious, I decided to look on Youtube for Lightning x Hope and read the description to see what people's reasons were.

Very simple, but I don't intend this as family love. This is intended as lovers. It's not really any different than Snow/Serah, you know.

WAT

ShelkexVincent still FTW, though.

GROSS.

 

[Bex]

 

[Cat Rage Room]

can you guys please take the shipping conversation to another topic

seriously

 

[Bex]

Can one of you split this into an FFXIII Shipping topic?

 

[Cat Rage Room]

The number of divergent posts isn't long enough yet to warrant a split, so in the mean time, please just cut it out, JESUS

I'm working on an update, but keep in mind this requires me to sit down and play the game, something I'm lucky to have the time for as much as I would like. If it means so much to you guys though, I'll SUSPEND MY LIFE and push everything to the side to crank an update out tonight, promise.

 

[ForceStealer]

Nah, they're not that long. Though, uh, why would you want them to be? I have nothing against long cutscenes, but Xenosaga was really pushing it. Wouldn't you rather play the game itself?

As long as I like the story, I'm not really bothered by cutscene length. If you're going into a game with full knowledge of its cutscenes and are interested by its story, why does it matter the % of time you spend playing?

I understand if you're in a mood for just straight gameplay and go to play Tetris or Modern Warfare or something. But if you're settling in for an experience, and accept that for this particular game/product, cutscenes are part of that experience, who cares?

 

[Cat Rage Room]

If you're going into a game with full knowledge of its cutscenes and are interested by its story, why does it matter the % of time you spend playing?

I understand if you're in a mood for just straight gameplay and go to play Tetris or Modern Warfare or something. But if you're settling in for an experience, and accept that for this particular game/product, cutscenes are part of that experience, who cares?

If you don't mind cutscenes, then that's absolutely fine! I have no arguments if that's what you enjoy. But you can be interested in a games story, and be pretty miffed at the amount of cutscenes it has. Xenogears is a good example. A lot of fans, including myself, dislike the transition between Disk 1 and Disk 2, because in Disk 2, instead of having areas of gameplay where the player can explore and play the game himself, instead things were primarily explored via cutscenes.

There were PRIME areas that could have been dungeons or towns, but were instead glossed over via cutscenes. Not everyone minded this, but it definitely wasn't cool with me, and I LOVE Xenogears and its story. I just wished that for certain aspects, I got to PLAY a scene instead of watching it.

I mean, if you're cool with that, fine, I can't argue a preference, but you have to understand that there are legitimate reasons why some people prefer gameplay over a cutscenes to a certain ratio. And the 'BUT WE WANT TO TELL A STORY' thing only counts to a certain extent as well, there are many games that have absolutely stellar stories and plots with no cutscenes at all!

 

[Makoeyes987]

You really don't need CGI cutscenes or whatever to tell the story, especially on next gen consoles. The gameplay and story can be seamlessly interwoven if done correctly. At the very least, the cutscenes can be rendered completely in the game's gameplay engine so the transition is smooth. If it's about immersion and the settling in for the experience, then wouldn't it be better to have the player actually interacting and progressing the story themselves, rather than the game just dichotomizing the two elements?

 

[Cat Rage Room]

You really don't need CGI cutscenes or whatever to tell the story, especially on next gen consoles. The gameplay and story can be seamlessly interwoven if done correctly. At the very least, the cutscenes can be rendered completely in the game's gameplay engine so the transition is smooth. If it's about immersion and the settling in for the experience, then wouldn't it be better to have the player actually interacting and progressing the story themselves, rather than the game just dichotomizing the two elements?

Yeah, exactly. I mean, I don't mind cutscenes. They definitely have a place and purpose. For example, I would say that Grand Theft Auto IV (and its two expansions), is like, 20% cutscenes and 80% gameplay. But GTA IV's cutscenes are incredible and I'd say they're better than a grand majority of RPGs I've played and I wouldn't trade them for the world. HOWEVER, at the same time I wouldn't go "IF YOU WANT A GOOD STORY YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO COMPLAIN WHEN WE JAM CUTSCENES DOWN YOUR THROAT"

 

[ForceStealer]

I wasn't really arguing your preference so much as asking for your reasoning. The "I'd rather play a scene than watch it" is common, and I understand it. But limitations of a games engine may make a certain sequence far more enjoyable as a cutscene. To continue with the Xenosaga example, KOS-MOS' fight with T-ELOS would never have had the same affect that it does if you simply fought T-ELOS (which you still do beforehand and she seems unaffected...but that's another matter).

It can also serve to make a story point clear that wouldn't be made to the same extent or in the same way as a message box might. Uncharted 2 is a beautiful example of letting the player control sequences that would normally be cutscenes, but the game DOES still have cutscenes

And the 'BUT WE WANT TO TELL A STORY' thing only counts to a certain extent as well, there are many games that have absolutely stellar stories and plots with no cutscenes at all!

And I absolutely agree with this too, but it does make for a different feel. I'd prefer that neither type of game went away.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Yeah, okay, I can level with you there. Like I said, cutscenes definitely have a place, especially in the example you mentioned (where a cutscene exceeds the limits that the gameplay has towards presentation).

For example, watching Id in Xenogears lift up a 100,000 ton warship with his mind in a cutscene instead of playing it? That's tolerable. That's okay. I like that.

But on the other side of the spectrum, watching a cutscene as the characters narrate "We went through this ancient facility IT WAS INTERESTING AS HELL WE'VE SEEN SOME COOL SHIT" *next scene* without playing it at all (yes this happens in Xenogears not kidding)? Not cool.

 

[Makoeyes987]

MOG pretty much stated my thoughts, and Forcestealer, you seem to understand what we're talking about

Cutscenes definitely have a place (i.e. when the gameplay engine is seriously unable to render the actual dynamic footage to have you interact with) and aren't inherently bad. But when the balance starts tipping where most of the game is being watched, versus played, then there's a problem.

And again, this is mainly for next gen games, not older ones. Games on the PS3/360 have a lot of freedom and you can do so much, in terms of interaction and playing thanks to the hardware. To tie this into the topic, that's what bothers me about FFXIII; there seriously should've been more interactions with all the cool shit that happens instead of just seeing it in high def. It's gorgeous and cool to watch, but why is it we're only watching it? We should be beyond that now. FF wasn't like that in terms of interaction. We know why that happened, but it doesn't make it any less saddening.

 

[ForceStealer]

But what if a game is presenting itself, from the very beginning as more interactive movie than game? Xenosaga frequently did this, and a more recent and extreme example would be Heavy Rain. (I'm not sayind XIII did this, by the way)

Heavy Rain is a lot of watching, probably more watching than playing, but most people would still classify it as a "game" as you can win and lose.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

edit: shit aten didnt see you there

post coming up in a sec

edit 2:okay here it is

But what if a game is presenting itself, from the very beginning as more interactive movie than game? Xenosaga frequently did this, and a more recent and extreme example would be Heavy Rain.

Heavy Rain is a lot of watching, probably more watching than playing, but most people would still classify it as a "game" as you can win and lose.

The difference between Xenosaga and Heavy Rain is genre and expectation. Heavy Rain pretty much presents itself from jump street as being an interactive movie with choices type thing. That's what the entire game is about. That's what it went for, and from what I hear it does it very well!

But when you compare that to Xenosaga, which presents itself as a game, with movies in it, when you tip the scales like that it gets fucking confusing and expectations are missed. I definitely didn't think XS would be as much cutscenes as it was, because it had a battle system, stats, etc I also thought it would give more attention to. It's like 'hey you this psyche you're gonna be doin something else for the majority of the time'

 

[Makoeyes987]

But what if a game is presenting itself, from the very beginning as more interactive movie than game? Xenosaga frequently did this, and a more recent and extreme example would be Heavy Rain. (I'm not sayind XIII did this, by the way)

Heavy Rain is a lot of watching, probably more watching than playing, but most people would still classify it as a "game" as you can win and lose.

If that's what the game is, that's its choice. For one, Xenosaga was on the PS2, so I know that technical limitations played apart in how it presented itself since you can only do so much. I don't fault it for that too much.

As for Heavy Rain, that's a unique, and specially designed game that is definitely more align as an interactive movie. And hey, that's cool. I'd definitely play it.

The problem with FFXIII is, is that, that's not what FF franchise is supposed to be. If they were gonna decide to change rails and do something else, it'd have been nice to tell me.