"General" Sephiroth?

[Cae Lumis]

For a long time now I think many of us have come across in one form or another Sephiroth being given a military rank aside from his canonical "SOLDIER 1st Class" designation, such as General or Commander. It has only now just occurred to me to ask a very simple question... where did calling Sephiroth "Commander" or "General" come from? As far as my own personal dive into the Japanese material is concerned, I've never found a reference to Sephiroth being called a "General" before... granted there is a lot of Japanese material out there to dive through to find references proving whether he was or never was called such... though I half suspect it must've started with one of the English Guides. As an example, the one reference I personally could find comes from the Original Brady Games Walkthrough for Kingdom Hearts, which has the following:

BOSS: Sephiroth
Fight Sephiroth alone in the Coliseum and defeat him so that you can claim to have bested the SOLDIER commander!

Is there any way to shed light on this odd little mystery?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

It doesn't exist anywhere in canon, no. More likely -- and more realistically -- Sephiroth has no rank outside his SOLDIER 1st designation, and any command he holds is on a per mission basis.

 

[Cae Lumis]

It doesn't exist anywhere in canon, no. More likely -- and more realistically -- Sephiroth has no rank outside his SOLDIER 1st designation, and any command he holds is on a per mission basis.

That's what my memory was telling me, glad I didn't lose all my marbles lol. That's why I wanted to figure out where did calling Sephiroth "General" come from, to begin with.

 

[Clement Rage]

Probably fanfic.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Definitely fanfic. A popular moniker for him is Silver Haired General.
He didn't carry out any of the tasks of a general. A general commands entire armies, sets objecties, plans strategy etc.... Sephiroth was more like a one-man army. You just pointed him in the direction of whatever town he needed to slaughter.

 

[Torrie]

I'm pretty sure as well that this idea originates from fanfiction. It just makes so much sense and, at the same time, it doesn't.

On the one hand, he wears a different set of clothes and accessories (even if it's just another thing First Class SOLDIERs are allowed to do), he's awed by so many, and he's promoted by Shinra as a war hero, he's in papers and stuff. So it would be just logical to assume that he's climbed pretty high on the career ladder. On the other hand, according to the Remake Ultimania (and I think some in-game dialogues mention it too; I can't really remember if it was in CC or the OG though), SOLDIERs and Turks are commanded by Heidegger, so... Heidegger seems to be the only actual general in the lore.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

It's worth bringing up that Heidegger only took over as head of the Turks and SOLDIERs after the events of BC and CC after both departments lost their directors.

In the case of SOLDIER, Sephiroth's superior for the latter part of the Wutai war would have been Lazard. Who I guess is technically the closest thing to a General of SOLDIER actually? He's the one directing who goes where and signing off on missions in CC at least. That said, we see Zack doesn't even meet him is until Zack is ordered to go after Genesis. However, he deffinetly knows of Lazard if Lazard's emails are anything to go by.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

And Lazard does look like such a military man....

 

[Rydeen]

There was an ultimania or something that said that Lazard does not have any combat abilities.

 

[Odysseus]

He'll slap you with his prissy gloves. That's a combat ability.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I've never seen an item of clothing that was more blatantly symbolic than Lazard's gloves. He literally does not want to get his hands dirty.
(I don't like Lazard.)

 

[Odysseus]

(I don't like Lazard.)

yes

Despite being a more "significant" character in a more widely known FF7 spinoff entry, he's the more forgettable of President Shinra's bastard children. I kinda wish Angeal had just filled the role of SOLDIER's Leader.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

The funny thing about Lazard is... Tseng is about as active as Lazard is. Maybe a little more in that Tseng actually doesn't spend all day in the office. We never see him actually fight anyone.

However, Lazard straight up gave himself a shot of Angeal Cells after he already knew what Angeal Cells did to poeople. And that was after he left Shinra himself to do... something. That involved traveling the world and resisting Shinra. So... yeah. Also... Lazard has a whole slew of emails implying things about Shinra (the President) to all members of SOLDIER that... aren't great.

Now that I think about it, Tseng and Lazard have a lot in common. One has just been in the Compilation longer and has a much more developed relationship with his subordinates.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Lazard is literally the thematic opposite of Rufus Shinra. Unlike Rufus, he lets his desire for revenge on his father consume him. Unlike Rufus, he starts off as a kind, justice oriented person who then lets his hatred for President Shinra blind him and consume him to the point of self destruction. He also sadly never gets a second chance, he just simply dies. Ironically, Rufus's closeness to his father (who he hated just because he wanted his power for himself) allowed him to survive while Lazard in his separation (he hated his Dad for literally abandoning him and not giving a fuck his mother died) essentially died alone. Zack was literally the only person in the world left who gave a fuck about him. His fate is a cruel reflection of what a polar opposite of Rufus Shinra would endure being alone and left to his own emotions, aware of him being just a bastard of the richest in the world.

 

[Odysseus]

Lizard

Spoiler

 

[Rydeen]

(who he hated just because he wanted his power for himself)

Minor point but this isn’t really true. Prez was a dick to Rufus.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

You don't have to do too much extrapolating to get the idea that President Shinra let his Board of Directors do whatever they wanted even if it was a heavy drain on finances. It's... a miracle he didn't run Shinra into the ground TBH. All in all, President Shinra is a dreamer who can be jerked around by people telling him what he wants to hear. So long as they do that, he doesn't care what else they do.

Rufus... he's got a practicality to him that he dad doesn't have. And unlike his dad, his backstory centers around him having a very good idea of what Shinra is up to. Even in the OG we see him correcting Heidegger and not letting himself get run over by the other Shinra Board members. Also unlike his dad... Rufus manages to learn what loyalty means early enough (from the Turks no less!) to know how to give people an actual reason to stick with him that... doesn't have to do with threatening them.

Between the two... Rufus is... a lot more dangerous than his dad is. In part because he doesn't make it obvious he doesn't care about anyone. Rather, he does care about some people (or can make it look like he does) and those people know he's loyal to them so long as they don't give him a reason to doubt their loyalty. Unfortunetly, Rufus has the stigma of being a Shinra, so no one will ever not wonder if he's not lying to make himself look better than he is. And he still manages to make that work for him. Even by the time ACC and DoC come around... he's still the head of Shinra and people are still working for Shinra under him and are... okay with that apparently.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Minor point but this isn’t really true. Prez was a dick to Rufus.

Who isn't President Shinra a dick to?

Rufus honestly came out lucky, because President Shinra did actually love him. He had a messed up way of showing it but he did.

 

[Rydeen]

Who isn't President Shinra a dick to?

Rufus honestly came out lucky, because President Shinra did actually love him. He had a messed up way of showing it but he did.

This is true, but it's implied that Lazard also had privileges because of his lineage. Not sure if that was a form of hush money, though, or genuine love.

 

[Clement Rage]

Hmm... one of the interesting things about OG Rufus is that he thinks he's very different from his father. He makes a big speech about how his Dad did things wrong with his bread and circuses approach...and then throws a giant parade in his own honour.

When Meteor hits, the first thing he does is try to publically execute AVALANCHE, as a scapegoat for Shinra's fuckups, basically the same trick as his father.

 

[Rydeen]

Hmm... one of the interesting things about OG Rufus is that he thinks he's very different from his father. He makes a big speech about how his Dad did things wrong with his bread and circuses approach...and then throws a giant parade in his own honour.

When Meteor hits, the first thing he does is try to publically execute AVALANCHE, as a scapegoat for Shinra's fuckups, basically the same trick as his father.

Yes, I always felt that was ironic in the OG. I get the feeling that they really switched gears in the direction they wanted to go with him after the OG.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Yes, I always felt that was ironic in the OG. I get the feeling that they really switched gears in the direction they wanted to go with him after the OG.

I don't believe so. See, Rufus talks about ruling with fear and like he doesn't care about the common people, but then he legitimately puts up such a fight against the Weapons (rather than just fortifying himself) that even Barret applauds him. I think this juxtaposition that Rufus wasn't who he thought was always intended -- and then later material really emphasized the epiphany.

Also, a few Ultimanias have pointed out the irony of Mr. "I'll Rule the World With Fear" embracing being the protector of the people once everything goes to hell.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Lazard is a bad person. He goes into Shinra with the intention of.... bringing Shinra down? But also not, because without Shinra, who is Lazard? Nobody. He allies with some of the most narcissistic, amoral characters in the entire compilation, Genesis and Hollander, despite knowing that they have turned hundreds of SOLDIER Thirds into mindless Genesis copies/monsters. He never does a single good thing for anyone. And he doesn't even have the strength of character to own his selfish ruthlessness. If he really gave a shit about the poor and downtrodden of their world there were a dozen better ways he could have shown it.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Lazard really does suck. I will say, though, he did the good deeds of defending a comatose Cloud from Hollander, and soon thereafter getting himself mortally wounded defending Cloud from Shin-Ra troops while Zack was fighting Genesis in Banora.

So his last deeds were good, but it literally took until that point.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Lazard saw the evil that Shinra was doing, and felt it was wrong and wanted to crush it.

But he also wanted revenge on his father. Because he hated him for what he did to his Mom. And it was that hatred and desire for revenge that compromised his character and morality. He chooses to do anything possible to get revenge at Shinra and just tear it apart. He was that consumed with hatred. It's why he kept everyone at a distance and held a subtle bitter cynicism which he covered with a professional and cheery veneer.

It changed only when he was filled with the thoughts, and feelings of another person. A benevolent person like Angeal, that he realized how wrong he had been. He had to literally step away from being himself to realize how foolish he had been to literally turn himself into a Copy for power. His existence was ultimately a sad one. Very fucked up and tragic. But yeah, he did do some good before he died alone and sadly.