SPOILERS Half a year later. What are your thoughts?

Chocobo Eater

Chocobo Eater

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I actually didn't like Remake. Finished it once, never went back. I wanted it to be like the original and was appalled by the Whispers and Aerith's new "powers" (although I still love her character). I also wasn't a big fan of the battle system, but when it comes to FFVII, gameplay means very little to me compared to story. I remember facepalming myself so hard throughout Chapter 18, thinking what the hell I'd gotten myself into.

The damage is already done, so that being said... the ending has gotten me excessively hyped for Part 2. I wouldn't have felt this way had it played out how I'd wanted. And I'm no longer hoping for that - I'm hoping Part 2 pulls off some crazy shenanigans and takes a completely different route from the OG. I don't care what happens anymore, as long as they (continue to) get all the characters right.

Even if it means someone else dies... fuck it. Surprise me, Square. Do whatever the hell you want.
 
Eerie

Eerie

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Stiggie said:
Edit, I just realized there is PERHAPS, one small moment where it's hinted at, and it's when Aerith asks Tifa "but what about you, how are you holding up?", to which she responds with "Oh, I'm fine", when she clearly isn't.
I originally took that as Aerith asking Tifa about how she's dealing with the whole Cloud situation, although it Could also be about the sephiroth situation.
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No. She's asking her about how she feels after the plate fall. Because that follows up their convo and her worry about Tifa in chapters 10 and 11. However, she doesn't know that Tifa was comforted by Cloud in chapter 14 - and this is also the reason why Tifa doesn't understand her question, because she is fine.
 
Eerie

Eerie

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Yet, she is. She is at peace. This is also why she tells Leslie about the message behind the flower; because she is at peace. It's also why she can discuss with Barret and Cloud that they're going to rebuild the bar; it's because she has hope again.

Leslie91.jpg

This is her face when she talks to leslie, and she can only do it because she is fine. She gives him hope because she has found hope again. I don't know, I don't find that message exactly complicated.
 
ultima786

ultima786

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Eerie said:
Yet, she is. She is at peace. This is also why she tells Leslie about the message behind the flower; because she is at peace. It's also why she can discuss with Barret and Cloud that they're going to rebuild the bar; it's because she has hope again.

View attachment 9184

This is her face when she talks to leslie, and she can only do it because she is fine. She gives him hope because she has found hope again. I don't know, I don't find that message exactly complicated.
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Lol, she’s not fine, with all do respect. Having moments of clarity and rest does not mean someone is “fine”.

@Stiggie your point about Aerith bringing up that question to Aerith... “How are you holding up....” is a really great point and may help this issue. Does anyone know what the Japanese line says?
 
Eerie

Eerie

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How do you know she's not fine? Where has this been pointed at in game?

What I see is:

1. Tifa giving hope to Leslie, because she herself is feeling better
2. Be able to talk about rebuilding the bar (having hope for herself)
3. Showing no sign of being in despair as she was during the plate fall until she cried out on Cloud's shoulder
4. Telling Aerith that she is fine, not understanding her concern

I don't know, at some point I do follow what the game says and I don't make up things just because?

Edit: also I have to add that her scene with Cloud in chapter 14 is not only about her being consoled by Cloud, but also about Cloud being able to console her. If she isn't fine after that, then it kills the purpose of this scene.
 
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Ite

Ite

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I was really looking forward to the President slumped over with just the sword sticking out of him, and Tifa’s reaction to the mere possibility of Sephiroth being alive. She was robbed of that moment.
 
Eerie

Eerie

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Odysseus said:
Maybe an inappropriate comparison to make, but what you're saying is basically like saying that people were fine after 9/11 after a good cry and a pep talk. Tifa is still blaming herself for a lot of this stuff years later, as you can see in OTWTAS. She felt better in the moment, sure, but these things hang with you.
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I think we are doing different things here. I look at her through the scope of Remake only. I do agree that once everything stops and she can look back, guilt will come back. However, that scene with Cloud is extremely important because she does find peace there - he's the only one who can provide that comfort, because he's the only one who's been the same things as her and who can share her pain.

Before that scene, we see how she reacts to the plate fall. We see how she reacts after that scene. The game tells us "Tifa is fine again" which doesn't mean that she doesn't have her own doubts and guilt, but when Aerith asks her how she is, she doesn't and cannot understand her question because, she is fine. When you paint her as "not being fine", I feel that you see her only through the scope of the OG and the Compilation, you make her unable to move forward, to fight, to help, when the game exactly does not want you to do that. This is why I say "Tifa is fine". One of her most beautiful and peaceful faces is when she talks to Leslie in chapter 15. If you say that "she's not fine", you literally go against what the game is saying, you defeat the purpose of the narrative surrounding Tifa.

In the time frame of the game, Tifa is fine because she needs to be. And so, the game tells us so. It tells us "Cloud has comforted Tifa, which allows her to find peace" (which Barret's words couldn't). The fact that it's momentarily, I don't deny this. But this will hit harder later, probably in the Remake Lifestream scene, and also in CoT. When we talk about the characters, I feel it's important to keep Remake in mind, especially because there are discrepancies between Remake and the OG, and quite frankly, I do expect part 2 to be completely different from the OG, even if they keep the most important moments in. Everything is being recontextualised, so if you frame it like this, you're defeating the purpose of "retelling a beloved story".
 
Odysseus

Odysseus

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But it's fine, everyone has their own view of things.
 
Eerie

Eerie

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Then please tell me where the game shows that Tifa is not fine. Why would she lie to Aerith? She has sought reassurance from Aerith in chapters 10 and 11, Aerith is able to comfort her too, they are friends - why would she tell Aerith that she is fine in chapter 17 when she is not and they could deepen their friendship?
 
KindOfBlue

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Blue
I think you might be reading too literally into whether or not Tifa is actually fine, she just has a lot of stuff going on and given her habit of “locking her heart” I could see her telling Aerith she’s fine so as to not worry her or distract from the mission but more to the point, it’s such a quick line that the game doesn’t dwell on so I don’t think there’s much there for us to delve into
 
Eerie

Eerie

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Yes but the thing is, we have seen Tifa as "not being fine", when the plate falls and right after. And she's not presented the same way once Cloud comforts her. Listen, Tifa doesn't really "locks her heart away"; what she does is "postpone". In short, many characters have in game noticed that she does not talk about her past and I don't think that it's she locks it away, I think it's that she does not want to think about it, as to not be overwhelmed by it.

In the OG and CoT, she does the same thing when Aerith dies - she puts the thought away and focuses on chasing Sephiroth (before and after taking care of Cloud) because she does not want to think about it. Once it's all over, all these thoughts come back to her, and that's when she becomes depressed. Her own way of healing is to focus on helping out in Edge. As long as she's able to focus on something that she feels worthy, she is "fine", she functions just fine. She's able to not be sad, to go forward, take decisions, joke and smile, have hope. Basically, she is fine. It's when she stops that she's hit by those negative feelings she has put away.

So to say "Tifa is not fine" is basically thinking of her as an ever depressed woman, who never finds happiness. We all have bad and negative thoughts and our own way of dealing with them. When I say "Tifa is not fine" it's when she's unable to face those feelings, and when I say "Tifa is fine", then that's how the game presents her. Saying "but Tifa never talks to anyone anyway" is wrong, because she has talked about her fears to Aerith herself, so her suddenly changing and not seeking kind words from Aerith if she felt "not fine" would be very bizarre.
 
Lex

Lex

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I think I've written a post and deleted it several times in this thread.

My thoughts on this game nearly a year after release: it's a very good game with some slightly frustrating generation dependent issues (I don't like being forced to walk slow in some areas but I know that's a loading thing).

The FFVII scholar in me is still screaming about the ending though. There is a rational part of my brain telling me that I can't judge it until I see how it all plays out so I'm on board for the rest (I would be anyway).
 
Fiz

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Eh?
Stiggie said:
I would be able to accept Tifa just being shocked....IF there had been a callback. And remember, it's not like there wasn't a perfect point for it.
The game literally ended with people talking about why they're going after Sephiroth.
Cloud talks about how "Sephiroth, as long as he's still out there...I", we've seen the flashbacks through his eyes, we understand everything in his expression at that moment.

Barret talks with passion about how he's in too, "bastard wants to the destroy the planet does he? An enemy of hers is an enemy of avalanche?

Aerith gave several passionate speeches about why Sephiroth needs to be stopped.

Red XIII gave a technical reason why they'd be able to use him.

Aerith gets a scene showing her connection with Zack, Cloud gets the edge of creation, showing his fued with Sephiroth, Barret gets an emotional final scene with Marlene, showing why he is fighting.

But what did they give Tifa? The girl who literally joined a terrorist organization because of what Sephiroth did to her? Who lost everything because of Sephiroth, whose current life was basically defined by Nibleheim? Who had just learned that the cause of everything that happened to her is still alive mere hours earlier?

Well she says "need some help" during the battle, smiling. And then "what now?", "Count me in" in the final cutscene....
Really game? Not gonna touch on her motivations for a second? Not even a clenched fist close up on her face? No indication of what she's feeling at that moment? .....great storytelling.

Honestly, just the more I think about this the more it bothers me.

Edit, I just realized there is PERHAPS, one small moment where it's hinted at, and it's when Aerith asks Tifa "but what about you, how are you holding up?", to which she responds with "Oh, I'm fine", when she clearly isn't.
I originally took that as Aerith asking Tifa about how she's dealing with the whole Cloud situation, although it Could also be about the sephiroth situation.
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This is a fair point and we did see her over her father in Shinra HQ so they could have done something.

That said, she’s way more developed and multidimensional in Remake, so I didn’t even really notice. I think overall they did a great job with her.

On this Tifa being fine thing... I think she was fine in the sense that she’s holding up, but I don’t think she fine in a deeper sense.
 
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KindOfBlue

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Eerie said:
and I don't think that it's she locks it away, I think it's that she does not want to think about it, as to not be overwhelmed by it.
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Or both really? I described what she does, and you described her reason for doing it

Eerie said:
So to say "Tifa is not fine" is basically thinking of her as an ever depressed woman, who never finds happiness.
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I don’t think anybody’s trying to say that though, what’s being said is that at that precise moment in time, she says she’s fine but it’s possible that there’s something troubling her and considering the context of the conversation (Tifa’s worried because Cloud’s acting weird, Aerith asks if she’s okay and she awkwardly laughs it off) plus what we find out later, it’s understandable why

Fiz said:
This is a fair point and we did see her over her fathers in Shinra HQ so they could have done something
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But unless we actually learn about her father and the incident (which doesn’t happen until the Nibelheim flashback), I don’t know what they could’ve done without either spoiling the flashback or seeming like something hastily tacked on
 
Fiz

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Eh?
KindOfBlue said:
Or both really? I described what she does, and you described her reason for doing it


I don’t think anybody’s trying to say that though, what’s being said is that at that precise moment in time, she says she’s fine but it’s possible that there’s something troubling her and considering the context of the conversation (Tifa’s worried because Cloud’s acting weird, Aerith asks if she’s okay and she awkwardly laughs it off) plus what we find out later, it’s understandable why


But unless we actually learn about her father and the incident (which doesn’t happen until the Nibelheim flashback), I don’t know what they could’ve done without either spoiling the flashback or seeming like something hastily tacked on
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I guess they could have followed up that scene in a more subtle way, kinda like how they did with Aerith and Zack. So we know what it means and gets newcomers thinking.

If we take the Aerith and Zack scene, it pushed Aerith to take Sephiroths gamble on fate, we understood what it was, newcomers were left guessing. Some getting it, others not.

They could have done something similar to contextualise her motivations. She has already said that she’s lost everything, so something to just connect Sephiroth into that without revealing too much.

Like that perhaps?
 
KindOfBlue

KindOfBlue

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Blue
Fiz said:
She has already said that she’s lost everything, so something to just connect Sephiroth into that without revealing too much.

Like that perhaps?
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“They took everything from us again” I suppose also ties into Sephiroth indirectly since it’s all leads back to Shinra (“Sephiroth, SOLDIERs, mako, Shinra...I’m sick of this”) but I guess what you want is something more directly targeted at Sephiroth.

I suppose another way to look at it is that her main motivation for going after Sephiroth is not so much him but more to watch over Cloud, but like many other things about Tifa, it takes time to learn that about her motivations. Maybe Sephiroth could’ve taunted Tifa a bit more directly?
 
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