Hope, Snow, and Empathy

[Ⓐaron]

I don't think the bank robbery example applies here because the ultimate goal of a robbery is, presumably, to get the money and get away. The person holding people up but not shooting them has contributed to that goal, but not so much to the murders.

In a terrorist strike like FFVII, the ultimate goal is blowing stuff up. Tifa very much made efforts to contribute to that goal, even if one disagrees about the extent to which she realistically contribute (e.g. "Barret and Cloud could have pulled it off without her").

A person who hasn't committed a murder in a bank robbery still generally can't be charged with murder though, even if the plan all along was for someone to die in it. Only the person who commits the murder is responsible; the other people are accomplices. Similarly, a person who knowingly drives a getaway for a murderer can only be charged as an accomplice. It's worth noting often times in this country an accomplice can receive a sentence as severe as the main criminal, which has been controversial, but it varies depending on the jurisdiction.

First, everything YACCBS said in this post, 'cause it was made of win.

At the very least, Tifa was involved in planning to the extent that she knew exactly what the mission to reactor 5 entailed and didn't need to have directions given to her like Cloud. As well, she did bring Cloud (a very valuable asset to AVALANCHE) onboard for assisting with blowing stuff up. Heck, her say-so is even enough to get Barret to pay Cloud more money so he'll stick around for the second bombing operation.

Furthermore, her 10th Anniversary Ultimania profile says that she "immersed herself" in AVALANCHE's radical activities.

All that to me is enough to meet any standard of being involved in planning AVALANCHE's activities. Based on your comments to YACCBS, I guess you disagree, though, and probably won't see it differently.

At any rate, thanks for the discussion. Like Force said, it was good to see you talking FF again.

Yeah it's pretty obvious we have different definitions. To me a person needs to be directly involved in the deaths of non-combatants to be a terrorist. Apparently most other people don't agree. We may have different definitions of what constitutes direct involvement as well.

 

[Roger]

I dunno if I'd qualify her as a terrorrist. But her actions, though they weren't as direct as Cloud and Barret, were aimed at enabling people to blow up mako reactor, killing hundreds, all the same. Intentions do matter. So I disagree with Force, I could not see myself responding as Tifa did. Now, there are a good five years in which we dunno what's going on with Tifa so, for all I know she unlike Barret was really fighting for the Planet.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Well, both Barret and Tifa do admit at different points to being motivated mainly by revenge. Tifa even concedes in Case of Tifa that fighting for the planet was, at least for a while, just an excuse.

 

[Flowing Ice]

Ok, so the whole thread is to;dr for me at the moment, but..I just wanna make a simple post toward the original start of the thread. I think I'm one of the few people who likes Serah, Snow, AND Hope. There, I said it. Hope wrongly directed the blame, but he was a teen.

As for Snow not getting too down, well...As much as people don't want to simply admit it, but..people die. People die everyday. I'm not saying that doesn't mean you can't be sad, but he wasn't in the best situation to stay down either. More then likely, he's the type to mourn to himself/totally alone. If he lets ANYONE see him down, it'll be Serah...except for certain rare cases. That's just the type of guy he is. On the outside, he keeps moving, on the inside, he's mourning whatever is going down.

As for Serah..Well, I got really into the romance of those 2 anwyays, so that helped a lot, but all around I simply like her as a char.

 

[Username]

Hope was a spot on somebody's face, he was a hair up someone's nose, he was a virus inside a computer, he was a thorn in the side, he was an annoying insect that keeps infesting your house, he was a piece of gum you inadvertently stepped on, he was the train you missed, the person at school you hated, the bitch that cheated, the friend who betrayed, the boss at work, the all in all piece of shit, that you would never 'hope' to ever EVER see in any game ever again on any console ever to be produced now or in the near future.

Other than that, I quite like Hope.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

I don't get why people hate Snow as much as they do. To me, Snow is FFXIII's Zack. In fact, they are so similar it's almost as if they are the same character in two different worlds.