Hopes for Remake & Rebirth (gameplay/combat)

[ChipNoir]

how would they utilize blue materia or enemy skills, and would they change the names of several skills and magic attacks like bolt, bolt 2 to thunder, thundara

Command materia would be for abilities that are useful in battle regardless of who it is, since classing is more of a thing here. Deathblow, steal, enemy skill, scan, etc. They can be equalizers to fine tune to the party's melee and tactical abilities beyond just magic vs melee.

Now that we're in real time combat, support materia is arguably MORE important since it can be used to influence the behavior of spells. Range, pattern, potency, these are all factors you have to consider now.

 

[leadmyskeptic]

I.e. Buster Sword overthink, seems like there's a large amount of 'This is a different game! It doesn't need to follow the rules established by [ ]....but it'd better follow this one! It has to!', whether that means the BS getting thrown by the wayside, remaining unremovable (and having that role further underlined by it being the strongest), and/or maintaining Ultima Weapon as the strongest sword. As far as I can tell, in the OG, the acquiring of every weapon other than the starter weapon was 'non-plot related'--meaning, like so many other things, the arsenal of weapons acquired was a virtue of the battle system, rather than something occurring in the narrative. Similarly, though, the depictions of the characters with their 'base weapons' was also out of necessity, only in this case, one of graphical capability, rather than storyline importance. For the "Ultimate Weapons", the purely battle-system based thinking is even more apparent...they are comparatively difficult-to-obtain, unlockable weapons that compensate you for this with power, with everything about their design screaming 'super badass ultra pwr damage 2thmx!' rather than anything remotely serious (or relevant). One of them might as well have been the head of a dragon you mount on your fist that shoots flames out (and that would've been badass!). But it seems to me that all sides are taking the ol' stabby-stabby punchy-punchy a littleeee too serious.

More than anything, though, this IS a new game. So whether first weapons will be more important, or final ones maintained, out of all the areas you can expect OG dogma to be maintained or disregarded, this is one where it feels safe to say all bets are off.

 

[Roger]

Command materia would be for abilities that are useful in battle regardless of who it is, since classing is more of a thing here. Deathblow, steal, enemy skill, scan, etc. They can be equalizers to fine tune to the party's melee and tactical abilities beyond just magic vs melee.

Now that we're in real time combat, support materia is arguably MORE important since it can be used to influence the behavior of spells. Range, pattern, potency, these are all factors you have to consider now.

I expect Steal to be part of Yuffie's two modes, rather then a Materia this time around.

 

[ChipNoir]

I expect Steal to be part of Yuffie's two modes, rather then a Materia this time around.

Noooooooooo

 

[Ite]

You’d effectively be removing the thief class, though.

 

[ChipNoir]

As someone relies of amassing a wealth through steal, I do not want to be shackled to Yuffie.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

As someone relies of amassing a wealth through steal, I do not want to be shackled to Yuffie.

You don't deserve her or the pilfered wealth she could bring you.

 

[Cloud_S]

I hope a mini-game similar to G-Bike is playable in the Gold Saucer, complete with it's own levels and bosses, etc. I really enjoyed that mobile game and wish it had been made playable offline.

 

[Claymore]

If the biking footage is anything to go by, I reckon we could get that mini game long before the Gold Saucer.

Someone here mentioned expanding the Wall Market somewhat, and having a little gaming locale. It could work to house all the mini-games in this first installment. That or on the recreation floor of the Shinra HQ.

 

[leadmyskeptic]

How it will be done, I am unsure, but I fully expect Wall Market's "Ghetto Fabulous'/Red Light District appeal to be thoroughly expanded upon. Its hustle-and-bustle was merely 'suggested' in the OG, so it's time to make that sheeeet come a LIIIIVEEEE!!!

 

[leadmyskeptic]

Related, I know it will not re-appear (for such a thing would be rather out of place--left 'as is', anyway--in a modern game), but I feel I will strangely miss insecure Materia Shop Guy's little rivalry with the Inn and its vending machine, where he begs you to be a 'double agent' and stay in the inn to purchase their cheesy offerings. I LOOOVE that part beyond all reason, the request, the stoner materia clerk...actually wait, matter of fact, this is one of those parts of the game where a dialogue box like, moves to a degree, right? Or is that somewhere else?? The character says something like "...WHOA!!!", while the box pops up vibrating/bouncing around and whatnot?

 

[cold_spirit]

You’re thinking of how you can surprise the Item Shop clerk. Also, the side quest for the Material Shop clerk has never made sense to me. I have no idea why Aerith can’t hear the request, what a protein set is, nor why he becomes so motivated afterwards.

 

[Defeatable]

The one thing I DON'T want them to do is remove the Materia leveling system or Materia growth. The item screens after victories in the latest trailers showed EXP and Gil gained, but no AP acquired, which worries me. My biggest fear is that it works like it did in CC, where every level of every spell and every minor alteration of that spell was its own Materia. It just made equipping and organizing Materia a huge pain in the ass.

 

[OdaDaimyO]

Fusing Materia, or not fusing Materia? That's the Question...

 

[ForceStealer]

Thanks to Opera Omnia, the Force Stealer is now one of his most iconic weapons as well! (It also much less a dick than in the OG, but that’s okay, that’s what our ForceStealer is for )

 

[ChipNoir]

You’re thinking of how you can surprise the Item Shop clerk. Also, the side quest for the Material Shop clerk has never made sense to me. I have no idea why Aerith can’t hear the request, what a protein set is, nor why he becomes so motivated afterwards.

I get the feeling that the Japanese translation has it as a "Lengthening Tonic" of sorts. Y'know...for guys. And length. And things that they feel should be longer.

Hint: I'm not talking about hair.

 

[LoonySpectre]

An accessory that breaks the damage cap for one character or for all characters in the party?

Like "Brutal" in Crisis Core?

 

[Cannon_Fodder]

The one thing I DON'T want them to do is remove the Materia leveling system or Materia growth. The item screens after victories in the latest trailers showed EXP and Gil gained, but no AP acquired, which worries me. My biggest fear is that it works like it did in CC, where every level of every spell and every minor alteration of that spell was its own Materia. It just made equipping and organizing Materia a huge pain in the ass.

For what it's worth, I don't think you should put any stock in the lack of AP in the battle results. The trailer we got in May had different UI elements from the E3 trailer, which had different elements from the E3 demo people actually played. So a lot of that stuff is either still being adjusted or actively hidden. If anything, I think it's very likely materia levels up in the same way, since Nomura said the materia system is basically the same, with the only significant changes being due to the real-time battles.

 

[pxp]

I hope Materia level up even more than before, though basically with the same AP system, e.g., Fire 1, 2, 3 (First game cap; can still be used in later instalments); Fira 1, 2, 3 (Second game cap; can still be used in later instalments); Firaga 1, 2, 3 etc.

I'm basically parroting @ChipNoir here, but this really would solve a lot of "between game" issues and make levelling up relevant within and across each instalment.

 

[Ite]

Man power creep is gonna be so crazy in Part 2 onwards. If we’re getting Firaga before we leave Midgar, then what the hell do we get after that???

 

[ForceStealer]

I understand how that addresses the issue of each game having it's own progression, but that becomes a very difficult line to walk. Either you get some serious power creep (EDIT: Ite ninja) such that by part 3 the party (and their opponents) are so absurdly powerful it doesn't make any sense why we were worried about Mako reactors at any point, or there's so little difference between a level 2 materia and a level 4 or 5 materia that the level-ups themselves feel meaningless.

And I agree that I didn't really like Crisis Core's system of each form of a spell (-ra, -ga, etc.) being it's own materia.

 

[pxp]

I understand how that addresses the issue of each game having it's own progression, but that becomes a very difficult line to walk. Either you get some serious power creep (EDIT: Ite ninja) such that by part 3 the party (and their opponents) are so absurdly powerful it doesn't make any sense why we were worried about Mako reactors at any point, or there's so little difference between a level 2 materia and a level 4 or 5 materia that the level-ups themselves feel meaningless.

And I agree that I didn't really like Crisis Core's system of each form of a spell (-ra, -ga, etc.) being it's own materia.

I get what you're saying, but I think it's a bit nitpicky. Modern tech and visuals allow for a subtlety and yet distinctiveness of differentiation between each iteration, at least IMO. Bear in mind too that by endgame in the OG, you barely used the original magic anymore anyway - a least I didn't. Fire 3 etc. got replaced by Ultima, Comet, Shadow Flare, etc.

Edit: "absurdly powerful" works both ways too, as enemies will upscale in HD in ways we can't foresee, meaning that, e.g., Firaga 3, in the endgame portion may look like a fleabite to, say Diamond Weapon or Safer Sephiroth, relative to what they can dish back at us.

 

[ForceStealer]

For sure, RPGs are renowned for how your starting spells wouldn't be enough to start a campfire in the endgame. But if we're saying Midgar is a "full-length" RPG (man I cannot wait for someone to define what the hell that means), shouldn't we be looking at spells on the order of Ultima and Shadow Flare by the end of that game? (Even if they aren't, specifically, Ultima and Shadow Flare.) Because then the end of the next part, or the NEXT part should have spells equally more impressive than the endgame spells of the last. And all of a sudden why are we worried about Meteor when we have 8 people capable of ending all life with a minor cast

On the other hand, you're right that graphical fidelity probably allows for more differentiation between spells of the same type. But I just feel like unlocking Fire 7 of 10 will be inherently less satisfying than Fire 2 or 3 of 3.

I suppose it's this that has some people of the mind that subsequent parts could just be do-overs or even entirely different combat systems with just a small bonus applied for having completed save data of the last point.

 

[pxp]

For sure, RPGs are renowned for how your starting spells wouldn't be enough to start a campfire in the endgame. But if we're saying Midgar is a "full-length" RPG (man I cannot wait for someone to define what the hell that means), shouldn't we be looking at spells on the order of Ultima and Shadow Flare by the end of that game? (Even if they aren't, specifically, Ultima and Shadow Flare.) Because then the end of the next part, or the NEXT part should have spells equally more impressive than the endgame spells of the last. And all of a sudden why are we worried about Meteor when we have 8 people capable of ending all life with a minor cast

On the other hand, you're right that graphical fidelity probably allows for more differentiation between spells of the same type. But I just feel like unlocking Fire 7 of 10 will be inherently less satisfying than Fire 2 or 3 of 3.

I suppose it's this that has some people of the mind that subsequent parts could just be do-overs or even entirely different combat systems with just a small bonus applied for having completed save data of the last point.

Obviously you raise valid points, and you just have to hope that the devs are thinking about these things carefully. Let's go back to the Fire example though. In the game demo snippet at E3, we saw Cloud cast Fire, which basically looked like a small fireball. For arguments sake, let's say Fire 2 could be two small fireballs (1 1/2x damage as Fire 1), and Fire 3 three smaller (or maybe slightly larger) fireballs (2x damage as Fire 1). Nothing too insane, and leaving plenty of room for meaningful powerups (visually and attack stat-wise) for Fira and Firaga in later instalments. At the end of the day, doing something like this will make that progression feel more meaningful across what may be a very long series of games, not to mention a long time. Not being able to level up base magic within each instalment will be quote frustrating, I think, in an RPG.

 

[ForceStealer]

Not being able to level up base magic within each installment will be quote frustrating, I think, in an RPG.

This is true too, and I don't know how you address it...which is why I was originally so meh on this FF7-in-parts thing even if they've now managed to sell me on the fact that this Midgar chapter is going to be a blast no matter what happens in the future.

And yes, for spells there's also the kinda XIV route where Fire and Firaga are single target, Fira and Firaja are AoE. Of course that raises the question of what an All materia might do, if it still exists. Perhaps All will just send copies of a spell, whether AoE OR single target to all available enemies, lol. Though that sounds a little...crazy, lol