Hopes for Remake & Rebirth (gameplay/combat)

[pxp]

@Roger

So you’re arguing that Cloud’s more “cartoony” or “overly-fantasy” weapons should be got rid of to align with Barret’s melee weapons likely being ditched? But one could just as easily argue that Barret’s short-range weapons could simply be replaced with new long-range ones. And even possibly more fantastical looking ones than we’re used to for the character, given the title of the series.

 

[FFShinra]

I don't think they will ditch Barret's melee weapons. He's more than just a long range fighter (of which there are two with Vincent), but he's more specifically the tank of the team, so for those weapons, they simply focus on that aspect more.

 

[Vyzzuvazzadth]

Barret's melee weapons better be in the Remake! Rocket Punch and Chainsaw FTW

Regarding the ATB segments: yes, I do believe those increase in numbers, either by simply leveling up or certain weapons, armor and accessories give 1 or 2 bonus charges.

Barret's Focused Shot costs only 2 ATB charges if he has 2 left. Its description says that it uses up all ATB charges, meaning it's better used when only one charge is full or after using another ATB consuming action.

 

[Ite]

Since when was Cloud using his weapon, he was just punching, wasn't he?

Spoiler: Tw horrible violence

This scene with a baseball bat? Horrifying. That mental image alone is triggering.

 

[ForceStealer]

oh oh that one

 

[FFShinra]

The beatdown in the ruins of the Temple of the Ancients will truly be horrifying, appropriately so. I just hope the developers don't shy away from it because it IS supposed to be that way.

 

[Jairus]

Also, that one-in-one is a spiritual battle. The physical weapon Cloud may have had would be irrelevant. It's only a visualization and projection for his spirit to use.

And honestly, Cloud's Buster Sword isn't the only iconic weapon of his. The Ultima Weapon is showcased in the Dissidia series along with the Forcestealer. Those swords certainly have permanence and notoriety among FF fans as well. The Buster Sword is the most iconic but not the only one.




If the Buster Sword can be upgraded ala the Kingdom Key in KH3 and allowed to be relevant that way, not as the strongest weapon but a solid well-rounded weapon with a unique and helpful passive ability, that would be cool and acceptable.

But it would be a glaring and unnecessary change which needlessly flies in the face of the OG, to shoehorn the Buster Sword as the strongest weapon of all. It simply isn't,
It never was. It was Zack's final weapon and Cloud isn't Zack.

Crisis Core shouldn't be changing the reality of the game because this isn't Zack's story nor a sole testament to him. The weapon Cloud picks up after killing Ultima Weapon is his Ultimate Weapon. A blade of energy obtained from slaying one of the strongest monsters is Cloud's strongest sword. Each character finding their strongest weapon with unique and powerful properties and appearances is one of the most iconic elements of FFVII. That doesn't get to be replaced for Cloud because of Zack.

Why would it have anything to do with Zack other than having once been his? And as I said, you're assuming that the remake will include the events of CC into it's timeline, but we don't know that yet, so it's premature to include its events into any assumptions. From what's shown in the OG alone, we only know that Zack used to have Buster, that's all. The OG never shows anything of what he did with it before Nibelheim. You said it would fly in the face of the OG to make Buster upgradable to ultimate level, but you never said how solely in terms of the OG without relying on anything from CC.

Buster could be upgradable to be of comparable power to Ultima Weapon but have each them have their own strengths and weaknesses so each one could be useful in different situations. That would allow them both to shine in the endgame.

Oh and as far as using Ultima Weapon in the OG, Shademp, Mastered Magic Counter+Mastered Restore makes its HP dependency irrelevant without ever having to manually heal Cloud at all. Anytime he gets hit, he automatically casts Cure3 and puts his health back up to full or nearly so, keeping UW's attack power nice and strong at all times.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Why would it have anything to do with Zack other than having once been his? And as I said, you're assuming that the remake will include the events of CC into it's timeline, but we don't know that yet, so it's premature to include its events into any assumptions. From what's shown in the OG alone, we only know that Zack used to have Buster, that's all. The OG never shows anything of what he did with it before Nibelheim. You said it would fly in the face of the OG to make Buster upgradable to ultimate level, but you never said how solely in terms of the OG without relying on anything from CC.

Because it is going to use and re-imagine at least some elements of Crisis Core, presumably elements attached to VII and relevant to the story. Why wouldn't it? It's certainly not divorcing it or outright ignoring it, especially while simultaneously lifting some it's designs, setting materials and even Easter eggs. Not an assumption, just an observable fact.

Buster could be upgradable to be of comparable power to Ultima Weapon but have each them have their own strengths and weaknesses so each one could be useful in different situations. That would allow them both to shine in the endgame.

Why? If something is as strong as the Ultima Weapon, why have it be the "Ultimate Weapon?" FFVII doesn't have multi-class weapon system ala FFXIII where multiple variants and offshoots of the same weapons exist, and trying to make it like that misses the point of what makes VII, VII.

The Ultimate Weapon.. Is the strongest of its class. Shoehorning another weapon in its role, especially for the reason it just being another character's ulimate weapon, diminishes and misses the point of this being about FFVII and Cloud's unique story. The story that's after Crisis Core. Cloud isn't Zack. The Buster Sword isn't his final, Ultimate Weapon.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Not now, but it could be.

At any rate, it stands to reason the Buster Sword will serve some secondary purpose somewhere along the way.

 

[Makoeyes987]

A secondary purpose allowing it to be relevant is fine and welcome, but jiu-jitsuing it into the strongest sword for Cloud because Zack and Crisis Core, would be the definition of having the Compilation unduely bleeding through and shaping the remake.

It's just irksome to me and without reason. It'd be for no reason aside from Zack and the carry over of what was shown in CC. That's not FFVII, though. Cloud is Cloud and Zack is Zack. It sorta diminishes the pathos of the ending of Crisis Core to just have it bleed through and not conclude as it's supposed to.

Cloud may be Zack's living legacy but that doesn't mean he has to copy and use the Buster Sword forever.

 

[Pizzachu]

I wouldn't mind if there was a skin of the Buster Sword to change the appearance of other weapons. That could be a potential solution for people who want to use the Buster Sword throughout the game.

 

[FFShinra]

You know, until the compilation, Cloud's ultimate weapon was just as iconic as the buster sword. I remember a lot of fan art with it.

Same with the hardedge actually, due to its use in official hardy daytona art....

 

[Pizzachu]

I had no idea that his ultimate weapon or the Hardedge was as popular as the Buster Sword. The more you know. Thanks for the info!

 

[Ite]

Thanks to Opera Omnia, the Force Stealer is now one of his most iconic weapons as well! (It also much less a dick than in the OG, but that’s okay, that’s what our ForceStealer is for )

Yeah the Buster Sword’s mandatory place in your inventory seems more like a pre-rendered cutscene/character sprite consideration, and while the imaginative leap is short to get to “it stays because it’s emotionally significant” it is, nonetheless, a leap. In the real world, swords have to be replaced, even big sturdy ones like Buster.

 

[Jairus]

Because it is going to use and re-imagine at least some elements of Crisis Core, presumably elements attached to VII and relevant to the story. Why wouldn't it? It's certainly not divorcing it or outright ignoring it, especially while simultaneously lifting some it's designs, setting materials and even Easter eggs. Not an assumption, just an observable fact.



Why? If something is as strong as the Ultima Weapon, why have it be the "Ultimate Weapon?" FFVII doesn't have multi-class weapon system ala FFXIII where multiple variants and offshoots of the same weapons exist, and trying to make it like that misses the point of what makes VII, VII.

The Ultimate Weapon.. Is the strongest of its class. Shoehorning another weapon in its role, especially for the reason it just being another character's ulimate weapon, diminishes and misses the point of this being about FFVII and Cloud's unique story. The story that's after Crisis Core. Cloud isn't Zack. The Buster Sword isn't his final, Ultimate Weapon.

If Zack's adventure in CC has no playable counterpart in the remake, then how can Buster be said to be his ultimate weapon in the remake canon when it's never shown in such a capacity there? One can use elements of CC without including all that was in it. And why would having a second weapon of that level be shoehorning? You said it would but never explained why or how. UW was the strongest of its class in the OG. We don't know what all Cloud will have available to him in the remake. You can't judge what will be there simply by what's in the OG, because by its very nature, the remake will have more and have things the OG never could. As I said, you can't assume everything will correspond 1:1 between the two.

You're right that Cloud isn't Zack. However, he does eventually finish what Zack began in Nibelheim, that is, defeating Sephiroth. Which Zack asked him to do in the Nibel reactor when Cloud found him there. And as Buster is a link between them, it could be seen as a way of Zack being there metaphorically with Cloud during the last battle to help him keep his promise, as he did in AC:C.

 

[Ryuman]

They don't have to do anything with the Buster Sword. I know that when the time comes, I'm putting that thing back in Cloud's hands to finish Sephiroth. Stats be damned.

 

[FFShinra]

Granted, in the original game you could put a twinkie in his hand and it would end Sephiroth during the final duel.....

 

[Roger]

@Roger

So you’re arguing that Cloud’s more “cartoony” or “overly-fantasy” weapons should be got rid of to align with Barret’s melee weapons likely being ditched? But one could just as easily argue that Barret’s short-range weapons could simply be replaced with new long-range ones. And even possibly more fantastical looking ones than we’re used to for the character, given the title of the series.

Despite the title of the series, the last main entry into the series started with you having to push your car on the highway to the petrol station where you can buy meals at the store and stay a night in a camping trailer. Might as well call it Final Ordinarity XV.

They redesigned the 7th Heaven to look more like what it would look like in reality. They redesigned Tifa's outfit to be a bit more in keeping with what she'd ought to wear. They redesigned Barret's first gunarm and don't seem to give you his second one in the Guard Scorpion fight. We'll be staring at the big swords Cloud caries on his back for most of these games, it'd be a shame if they didn't look like they belonged in the same world as everything else.

I don't think they will ditch Barret's melee weapons. He's more than just a long range fighter (of which there are two with Vincent), but he's more specifically the tank of the team, so for those weapons, they simply focus on that aspect more.

I expect enemies only long range fighters can hit will continue to appear throughout the games. And we'll only get Vincent at the tail-end of Part 2 at the earliest. And they already heavily adjusted the dimensions of the Hardedge so Cloud can fight with it similiarly as he fights with the Buster Sword.

 

[FFShinra]

Yeah but all that does is add challenge. For...I dunno...magic, perhaps.

 

[pxp]

Despite the title of the series, the last main entry into the series started with you having to push your car on the highway to the petrol station where you can buy meals at the store and stay a night in a camping trailer. Might as well call it Final Ordinarity XV.

They redesigned the 7th Heaven to look more like what it would look like in reality. They redesigned Tifa's outfit to be a bit more in keeping with what she'd ought to wear. They redesigned Barret's first gunarm and don't seem to give you his second one in the Guard Scorpion fight. We'll be staring at the big swords Cloud caries on his back for most of these games, it'd be a shame if they didn't look like they belonged in the same world as everything else.



I expect enemies only long range fighters can hit will continue to appear throughout the games. And we'll only get Vincent at the tail-end of Part 2 at the earliest. And they already heavily adjusted the dimensions of the Hardedge so Cloud can fight with it similiarly as he fights with the Buster Sword.

I get what you’re saying but the whole point is mixing fantasy elements with real-life elements, which is what they did in the OG game and - funnily enough - in XV too. Plenty of weird and wacky stuff there (enemies, summons etc.) alongside the roads and Stand By Me. Anyway this is just an aesthetic difference of opinion I guess.

 

[pxp]

Double post apologies:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1142360676054138885

 

[Keveh Kins]

I'm delighted the system for the most part will be unchanged, the materia system is one the best systems they've made, so much customisation

 

[Odysseus]

I'm guessing that the materia that were very reliant on the turn-based system will probably go, like 2x cut doesn't really make sense when you can mash the attack button as much as you want.

 

[Jairus]

I'm guessing that the materia that were very reliant on the turn-based system will probably go, like 2x cut doesn't really make sense when you can mash the attack button as much as you want.

Yeah, I could see that being removed. Or perhaps adjusted to where whoever's using it gets in twice as many hits per button press/action as they normally would. You'd still press the buttons the same number of times, but the attack animations and hits would be doubled (or quadrupled, for when it gets to 4x Cut) for double (or quadruple) the damage.

 

[Solordinn]

how would they utilize blue materia or enemy skills, and would they change the names of several skills and magic attacks like bolt, bolt 2 to thunder, thundara