Hopes for Remake & Rebirth (gameplay/combat)

[Ite]

Oh don’t you worry, there will be a VR co-op thing, I’m sure of it.

 

[Jairus]

Actually, co-op battles might not be as farfetched an idea as it might seem. FFIX, as you may recall, allowed two people to fight battles together cooperatively with controllers hooked to the same PS1/PS2, even allowed you to select which player controlled which characters, so the idea itself isn't without precedent. I agree it's probably (and sadly) unlikely, though.

But if FF7R did allow coop battles, and not just from being in front of the same console together but rather, online coop battles where you could connect with other players and each control a character, that could be fun. I could easily imagine some joint play sessions here on TLS if that were to happen.

 

[Pizzachu]

I had no idea that FFIX had that feature. How neat!

Online co-op would be fun too. The more I think about it, the more entertaining the idea sounds -- especially having, like you said, joint play sessions here. Maybe the idea could possibly enter the devs' minds and they could add it later on whenever the game is released (and if they have enough time...) I would pay for an additional feature like that so I could play this game with others.

 

[Clean Cut Chaos]

I wonder how competent the non-player controlled members of the party will be. Will they be able to heal themselves when they're low on HP? Can they use spells correctly and utilize their MP wisely? What about the AI using Limit Breaks?

If I'm not mistaken, I believe 'ol Neal from E3 said that the AI would dodge, block, and use normal attacks, but anything ATB related (assuming limit breaks too(?)) is up to the player. It's looking like they might call on you for healing, but won't have the means to do it themselves.

I think you could issue commands to others without switching to them so maybe you could go though as 1 character as much as possible.

 

[Vyzzuvazzadth]

That's what I'm thinking as well. Only the player can tell the characters to use actions which consume ATB charges or the Limit bar. I actually like this very much as it's completely up to the player to decide what each character does besides the standard combat loop of attacking normally (building up ATB charges) and keep themselves out of harms way (blocking & dodging).

This retains the strategic aspect of combat as the AI doesn't do any work for you.

In a sense, it's quite close to the original battle system with the difference of being able to act in real time with normal attacks and defending yourself not being tied to ATB.

The feature of issuing commands to other characters with L2/R2 without switching to them becomes therefore an integral component to fighting efficiently.

 

[OdaDaimyO]

You can actually step up the difficulty, with trying of issuing commands to other characters in real time. That makes the initiation of team attack combos more of a challenge... I think, because the L2/R2 prompt besides the non played character is always active, otherwise it should only be visible in Tactical Mode.

 

[Vyzzuvazzadth]

Yes, but that only works when using shortcuts, as "time slows to a crawl" when entering "Tactical Mode". (read the quoted parts in Neil Pabon's voice)
But when you don't need more than 4 different actions per character anyway, a pure real-time combat becomes a possibility.

EDIT: I just realized that that's exactly what you proposed. I'm getting tired >_<

 

[OdaDaimyO]

I think that's one of the points they miscommunicated: "The game has been made so you can CHOOSE how to play!"
This doesn't coincide at all in reality, because you NEED TO CHANGE battle modes, there's no way you can play this game in Tactical Mode only, and playing in Real Time is depending on the situation, where you fight enemies that don't force you to use your whole arsenal of abilities.

 

[Vyzzuvazzadth]

Yes, you can play the game in Tactical Mode only, if you disregard standard attacks and defensive maneuvers. What I mean by that is by not using shortcuts at all, you're effectively playing in Tactical Mode only. And if you know the game already and know which shortcut setups work for which areas and bosses, you can play the game by never using Tactical Mode at all (if Limit Breaks and Summons can be slotted into the shortcut menu, that is.)

Still, those are deliberate choices and you're most likely limiting yourself a little, so a mixture of both becomes more feasible. So in practice, you can probably choose which option you'd like to give priority to.

Thinking further, as you most likely can only heal or buff yourself by using a shortcut command, you won't be able to target another character than the one using said restorative or supporting ability/spell/item, severely limiting your options. So I guess you can only REALLY choose how to play regarding direct offensive strategies.

And that's where my train of thought reaches the terminus. Let's go bomb some reactors!

 

[OdaDaimyO]

..if you disregard standard attacks and defensive maneuvers... and if you know the game already and know which shortcut setups work for which areas and bosses... if Limit Breaks and Summons can be slotted into the shortcut menu...

God bless we're not on Gamef##s *shudders*

I will not argue with you, but for me, it sounds like a good thought out hybrid system. It's meant for using BOTH systems and I'm irritated they're afraid of angering one of the both camps, instead of saying it out loud and standing to their decision.

 

[Highwind]

God bless we're not on Gamef##s *shudders*

lol

Whenever I want to read FF7R discussions I go here, the subreddit, ResetEra and if I'm still craving for more and I'm really desperate... I visit Gamefaqs. Yikes, it's bad. Troll Central. Hell, even 4chan is better than that.

 

[Vyzzuvazzadth]

@OdaDaimyO Haha, I wasn't trying to argue anyway (at least not seriously), more like starting with an "acktshually..." and then just letting my thoughts flow into my fingers and the keyboard, showing my thoughts instead of constructing the perfect argument and reaching a satisfying conclusion.

I know, the hyenas on GameFAQs probably would've torn into every sentence, but I know I can discuss things in a civil manner here, so... what Highwind said...?

And I agree with you that committing to either or would've probably helped the game more, but you have to understand their situation. They can't just abandon all fans and just do what's cool today. They need to appease the majority of the fans to a certain degree to win them over but still make the game feel modern enough that newcomers can easily get into it as well. It's a hard line to walk and I think they very much succeeded as of now. We'll see when it releases.

 

[LNK]

lol

Whenever I want to read FF7R discussions I go here, the subreddit, ResetEra and if I'm still craving for more and I'm really desperate... I visit Gamefaqs. Yikes, it's bad. Troll Central. Hell, even 4chan is better than that.

That's what I appreciate about people on here. Too often on social media, people "troll" and resort to name calling, that I just stop responding. I just hope people don't do that in face to face conversations

 

[Kain424]

Crazy that they are including a "Classic Mode". I had considered this, and there had been some discussion on here a while back as to why they wouldn't do that, but to my surprise they actually are doing it. Sure, it's a bit more like an "auto" mode, but it should make some folks happier.

Makes me wonder if they'll also include the original soundtrack as well, like the Resident Evil 2 remake did.

 

[Ite]

Crazy that they are including a "Classic Mode". I had considered this, and there had been some discussion on here a while back as to why they wouldn't do that, but to my surprise they actually are doing it. Sure, it's a bit more like an "auto" mode, but it should make some folks happier.

afaik the way it's implemented hasn't made any of the people who wanted it happy. @Obsidian Fire can probably explain their gripe with it -- I do not share the gripe, but my basic understanding is that Tactical Mode cuts up the illusion of battle flow, and Shortcuts kind of lock you in to only three abilities per character. A classic mode should allow you to enter Tactical Mode without the game going into bullet time. Implementing that would mean slowing down enemy ATB drastically to compensate, as well as removing basic attacks and blocking altogether. It really isn't a "Classic Mode" it's an "Auto-Attack Mode." I have no interest in it as it is now, perhaps if it was actually different from normal mode I would try it out, but it just seems like a Super-Duper-Easy Mode of the same combat.

 

[Claymore]

There was never going to be a 1:1 ATB mode in this. I don't know why some people are still shocked or fighting that notion. Personally, I'm really happy with all the options that they have put into the battle system so far ... and we've not even seen all the layers of it yet.

 

[pxp]

Do you reckon they planned the classic mode all along or “caved in” to the vocal minority (I think) of ATB moaners more recently?

 

[FFShinra]

I hope not, or the Operation Reunion jackals will get their way too.

 

[Claymore]

Do you reckon they planned the classic mode all along or “caved in” to the vocal minority (I think) of ATB moaners more recently?

Good question. It's difficult to say, since they already had all the key elements of the character AI and Tactical Mode already in place.

It does feel like a recent addition though, otherwise they could have been pushing it in earlier gameplay presentations and at least quietened a portion of that ATB group.

 

[Kain424]

It's recent announcement would seem to point to a more last-minute addition. I will very likely not be using that mode. I am not even really curious about it, because I want to play it the way they appear to have built the game for.

 

[OdaDaimyO]

That gives me negative call backs in regards to FFXV's Wait Mode, where they half assedly thought out the system around it, only for pandering to turn based combat fans.

 

[Lulcielid]

What was wrong with XV's wait mode exactly?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

What was wrong with XV's wait mode exactly?

For me it just never felt like it belonged/the game wasn't designed with it in mind. Playing the whole game that way would be absurd.

 

[ForceStealer]

This system seems to lend itself to it much more, given that the damage dealt by your regular attacks seems incidental compared to the ATB commands. So with regular attacks largely a means of charging ATB, automating that seems a much closer approximation of the proper ATB, at least.

 

[Lulcielid]

Fair but that does not answer how exactly that mode was half asset from a design perspective, i.e: what are the gameplay flaws? (now I not sure if OdaDaimyO meant half asset in that way but that's what understand when used to discuss gameplay mechaniques).

I'll grant that the mode doesn't add anything subtantial to the core gameplay but does what it's suppose to do fine.