Hopes for Remake & Rebirth (story/content)

[Theozilla]

There was an entire thread a few months ago dedicated to discussing what the those final lines meant https://thelifestream.net/forums/threads/what-did-cloud-mean-when-he-said-this.22003/

This is what I felt the those final lines meant/purpose was:

I think maybe you’re taking the lines a little too literally. It’s basically a round about way of Cloud and Tifa saying they should go live their lives to the fullest, because I seriously doubt the game’s intended takeaway is that the main characters’ finale lesson is that they are super looking forward to dying. That going out and living complete and fulfilling lives is the way to reach each individual’s “promised land”, i.e. self actualization upon the completion of life. And once that fully lived life is done, one can pass into the Lifestream satisfied. Even if individuality is lost upon joining with The Lifestream, it can still be seen as a form of reunification with loved ones and “meeting” them.

I definitely don’t think it was meant indicate that Cloud was looking forward to dying and/or the afterlife. I don’t think that’s what the intent of the story was at all.

 

[rkss]

Quite funny players who played En version first, got confused about the line and looked for Jp transcript.
On the other side, Japanese also looked for English text for proof.

Cloud doesn't specifically mention anyone in that line but in Int version he says "her" out loud.
Just like the time when Tifa called Barrett a retard out of nowhere in Int version.

This game is quite something indeed.

 

[ForceStealer]

I mean I definitely never considered he was referring to anyone other than Aerith. But I did figure he meant spiritually/figuratively.

 

[rkss]

But the way he talks, he means there're more than one person.
Since Zack was a non character in OG we don't really know. I could see SE shorehorn Zack into the scene like they did with AC

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

But the way he talks, he means there're more than one person.

He very well may, but the newer translation used in "Reminiscence of Final Fantasy VII" still specified "I think I can find her there." Unless the remake goes with something different, I think "her" is solidly what they meant.

 

[rkss]

This one?

My Jp is rubbish but the line "会えると思うんだ", depends on who is he talking to . If that's official translation then fine..

 

[Maidenofwar]

It makes the most sense in context for it to be Aerith since you know … it was Aerith he was just reaching for as she was reaching out from the lifestream (though it was also Tifa)

 

[rkss]

To be clear, I don't deny that interpretation. Only the way he talk is informal and weird. He also talks about "the answer from the stars" so it isn't necessary a person.
I guess my point is if he was just mumbling it himself, it'd make sense but when we consider Tifa' Pov, how'd she know what the heck he's talking about and it just can't be one person.

To my original point, this is why I don't always like ambiguous story telling. I like to imagine things too, but throwing ambiguous line just to confuse your audiences doesn't frequently work.
"500 years later" works because no matter how you interpret it, it's still beautiful. This one leaves a "huh?" and OG has tons of these.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

To be clear, I don't deny that interpretation. Only the way he talk is informal and weird. He also talks about "the answer from the stars" so it isn't necessary a person.

You mean "from the planet"? Some of the FF games use the general Japanese word for "celestial object" ("hoshi") to refer to the world where their stories take place. FFXV did this, too, and the English translation actually translated it as "star" to give the dialogue more flair.

An odd choice, but I think I like it in the context of that game. I don't think it would fit too well for FFVII.

I guess my point is if he was just mumbling it himself, it'd make sense but when we consider Tifa' Pov, how'd she know what the heck he's talking about and it just can't be one person.

Well, whatever he meant, since she understood, she did some intuiting there. Like you've pointed out, his exact wording is imprecise in Japanese -- so no matter what he meant (plural or singular), it was clunky wording that wasn't readily apparent in meaning, and she had to derive what he meant just from knowing him and where his thoughts might be.

What say you?

 

[ForceStealer]

Answer from the planet, not stars. Japanese uses the same word for both, but in FF7 context it's nearly always the planet.

EDIT: ninja'd

 

[Theozilla]

FFXIV does it too, they use Star for when referring to the planet they are on, or other planets where other beings come from.

 

[rkss]

The theme of the game is about everyone looking for their own Promise land right?
For sephiroth it's northen carter, for shinra, it's where lifestream is, for tifa it's Beyond mt Nibelheim etc....

I could rephrase it as " the answer from the planet, in promise land , we can find it there" make more sense than just "her". "It" here could be just Aerith i don't deny but Zack is there as well, so I'm not convinced it's all about Aerith. I think he's talking about his dead friends &family otherwise it'd cheapen his character & the ending.

Didn't we have the storyboard of this scene scanned before?

 

[Pizzachu]

This is something cool that someone had noticed on the Final Fantasy Reddit:

"Interesting detail if you look very closely at Cloud's buster sword you'll notice that underneath the leather-wrapped grip you can still see the original red grip of the compilation buster sword." - u/throwwayftw

Spoiler: Large Photo

Edit: Now that I think about it, should this post be in the demo thread instead? I'll move it there if so.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Holy shit. That's a pretty wild detail to put in there. So something happened to that sword.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

@Pizzachu

Thank you so much for posting that! The evidence I've been waiting years for!

 

[Ite]

Yeah this topic has its own thread yeah? Epic Phoenix down!

 

[Odysseus]

Gold box theories intensify

 

[Jairus]

What do classic AD&D PC games have to do with FF7R?

 

[Jairus]

I was thinking about how

Spoiler: (story details revealed in the demo)

Heidegger and President Shinra blew the reactor after Avalanche's bomb only took out the core, and a thought occurred to me. Reeve might not actually know what his superiors did - they may keep him in the dark about it, tricking him along with the rest of Midgar's people into believing Avalanche is the enemy they're being made out to be. This could explain in part why he feels Avalanche is responsible for something they really didn't do, leading him to his actions against them through Cait Sith before his change of heart. Of course, the fact that they went after the reactor in the first place is something he'd still be upset about, but finding out the truth about what Shinra did would make his anger more focused on them than Avalanche by that point.

 

[FFShinra]

I hope none of the main characters ever find out.

 

[Jairus]

I hope none of the main characters ever find out.

Why? They're surely bound to sooner or later. From the TGS trailer,

Spoiler

it sounds as if Prez and Heidegger basically spell it all out to them right there.

 

[oty]

I think, to me atleast, if the characters dont ever find out, they cant possibly have a "forgiving" scene, where their actions are pardoned (because they didnt do it).

Its a tricky situation. I think they will probably will find out (even if its not with the Avalanche trio), but the point still stands that SE is trying to make a double game: set up Shinra's evildoing since the beggining and also the main characters guilt trip and therefore development. I hope so lol

 

[Jairus]

What SE's doing can still be done, but I wasn't talking about having the kind of scene you meant.

Spoiler

More about the truth helping to lift the internal burden of guilt they may feel for what happened, to help them forgive themselves. And also galvanize them even further against Shinra and make them even more committed to stopping them. As much for themselves and making things right as for everyone else.

 

[Alex Strife]

What I am concerned is that all the

Spoiler

"popular guys" will get their "forgiveness". Avalanche, Turks, Rufus... they will be shown in unquestionably good light.

And here I enjoyed all the game of grays. Rufus was not exactly a good character but he did have some redeeming points (more Compilation than OG), the Turks were lovable bastards with a certain moral code but did some awful shit, and Avalanche was definitely good but did some questionable stuff.

I'd love for all of that to stay. It made the characters super relatable.

 

[Jairus]

What I am concerned is that all the

Spoiler

"popular guys" will get their "forgiveness". Avalanche, Turks, Rufus... they will be shown in unquestionably good light.

And here I enjoyed all the game of grays. Rufus was not exactly a good character but he did have some redeeming points (more Compilation than OG), the Turks were lovable bastards with a certain moral code but did some awful shit, and Avalanche was definitely good but did some questionable stuff.

I'd love for all of that to stay. It made the characters super relatable.

I don't know that they'll go that far. But I think some things do need be addressed in the story. Too much gray is as bad for a story as not enough. For Avalanche,

Spoiler

learning the difference between what they did and what they think they did can be a part of their growth, and realizing that difference doesn't negate them also understanding the part they did have in it, that of the scapegoat and dupe, and that they unwittingly allowed themselves to be played and used. That they might not have done the deeds directly, but they were still the reason and the excuse they were carried out and that their actions played right into what Shinra wanted.