Hopes for Remake & Rebirth (story/content)

[The Twilight Mexican]

The only thing with Remake as with President Shinra death scene... Will be the lifestream particles... If you die straight then your body should vanish on the same moment.

The FFVII games, novels, etc. are pretty consistent with bodies usually sticking around. Those that vanish, though, typically have either:

- been experimented on and, as such, were severely compromised; e.g. a Sephiroth copy in FFVIIR or the numerous Genesis copies experiencing degradation in "Crisis Core"

- been exposed to a significant amount of a volatile Lifestream-based substance; e.g. Grimoire Valentine in "Dirge of Cerberus"

- been people whose bodies were composed of a Lifestream-based substance to begin with; e.g. the Sephiroth remnants in "Advent Children"

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

You must have noticed all the dead bodies hanging off railings and whatnot on the way up the Sector 7 support pillar. Unless we're meant to assume they're merely unconscious. One could make that argument, but it would be a silly one. We see bodies when we need to see bodies and when we don't need to see them they vanish so as not to clutter up the field.
Plus, why invent graves if bodies dissolve moments after death?

I actually came here to say there is no way SE will ever be able to replicate the shocking impact of Aerith's death in the OG. That worked because we weren't expecting it. Now we are. The best they can do is replace the shocking impact by some stunningly clever twist we didn't predict, which isn't the same thing at all.

The more the Remake replaces something simple and honest with some clever and contrived, the worse it gets.

 

[eleamaya]

Hojo can't have Ifalna's organs, cells, anything from her body if dead body vanished into lifestream particles.
So yeah, Aerith's skeleton must be under the lake too unless they change it.

 

[Odysseus]

I've always thought "If bodies vanish into sparkly lights, getting away with murder must be really easy in FF7."

 

[Kuraudo.]

14:05 and 14:10 body diseppearing as lifestream.

 

[Ite]

14:05 and 14:10 body diseppearing as lifestream.

I don’t think anyone is disputing that in the video game, enemies dissolve after you slay them. My argument is that what we’re seeing as players is an abstraction that doesn’t reflect the world as the characters see it.

In the original Final Fantaay VII, enemies shook and dissolved into red mist instead of green embers. No one would argue that death in that universe involves dissolving into red mist. It’s just how the game broadcasts to the player that the enemy is defeated.

 

[Kuraudo.]

You are right, so we still have hope.

 

[cold_spirit]

You must have noticed all the dead bodies hanging off railings and whatnot on the way up the Sector 7 support pillar. Unless we're meant to assume they're merely unconscious. One could make that argument, but it would be a silly one.

I uhhh actually checked the bodies on the way up the Sector 7 pillar before and most (possibly all?) are just slightly breathing...

 

[Makoeyes987]

No they're not breathing. That's just the rendering of the models against the level. Some of them twitch at times. They're obviously dead and meant to be motionless.

They didn't all just eat machine gun fire from an attack helicopter and just lay there winded from the whole ordeal.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Not even monsters "really" vanish into sparkly bits. If they did, the guy selling monsta-burgahs in Wall Market would be out of business!

 

[Odysseus]

Everyone starves to death and only plants survive because all edible matter evaporates after death, no homes are built because wood cannot be harvested. Life is unable to advance beyond simple lifeforms. World peace is achieved.

 

[looneymoon]

Give defeated enemies Dark Souls physics

 

[Ite]

Hey I wonder if Final Fantasy VII Remake Interdiction is gonna be Yuffie’s only appearance in the Remake project?

Okay, okay, but what if her DLC expansion meets their bloat quota, so that adding her to the main party is still a hidden sidequest?

 

[Sephiroth Crescent]

Hey I wonder if Final Fantasy VII Remake Interaddiction is gonna be Yuffie’s only appearance in the Remake project?

Fixed it. You're welcome.

 

[cold_spirit]

No they're not breathing. That's just the rendering of the models against the level. Some of them twitch at times.

Nah it's a steady inhale/exhale.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I have no idea what you're talking about, but having just recently played the Remake, no. They are not breathing. They're still as the dead, since.. They're dead. Graphical rendering aside.

Why would a person drape themselves on a stair railing several stories above the ground like a ragdoll... If they were alive and breathing?

 

[cold_spirit]

I'll get a video of it later, but for now work calls.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Bit of an aside, but I have to say I do love the death animations in FFXV - the way enemies spasm for a minute or so after you've killed them. A goblin I killed got stuck in the door and just hung there, twitching, even after the battle was over. This is the kind of special effect I approve of.

 

[Ite]

Bit of an aside, but I have to say I do love the death animations in FFXV - the way enemies spasm for a minute or so after you've killed them. A goblin I killed got stuck in the door and just hung there, twitching, even after the battle was over. This is the kind of special effect I approve of.

That is probably exactly why they dissolve like wet cotton candy in Remake. I would love to see all the disgusting monsters of FF7 become jittery ragdolls strewn across the landscape lol, but dissolution is prolly easier on the RAM than corpse filth, and also declutters the area to make room for respawn (I was able to respawn rats on Scrap Boulevard pretty quickly, if their bodies lingered for a minute or longer I might be able to pile ‘em up.)

 

[Makoeyes987]

I'm literally in Chapter 12 right now, and the corpses of Shinra Troopers and Neighborhood Watch fighters are dead and still. They're lying there and you can't move them. They're rendered part of the environment. There's no breathing or anything cause they can't move. Any movement you detect is from the loading and compiling of the environment as you enter each area, which is rare. But I'm staring right at them.

They don't breathe.

....

HOLY SHIT.

I JUST HAD SOMETHING WEIRD HAPPEN THOUGH.

I'm skipping cutscenes and mad dashing through the level... And I found 2 random Shinra MPs just standing there like... Looking as if they have a conversation.

Cloud went up to them and touched them...

And they collapsed. They instantly turned into corpses.

Another I went and touched... Curled up and went into a death slouch.

LMAO holy shit.

I think if you rush into the areas and skip cutscenes, the game renders these people as standing/neutral, and then if you touch them, they turn "dead."

The corpses draped on railings and stuff though are just there, however. And they're still.

 

[Odysseus]

I want to see that lol, it sounds amazing.

 

[Makoeyes987]

It honestly sorta creeped me out, lol

Just... Try to speed run through Chapter 12 and move up with a purpose.

You.. Might catch the people who are supposed to be dead, standing about.

Fucking weird.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Dammit, Mako, why didn't you save a recording? That sounds simply amazing.

 

[ultima786]

The remake could simply introduce the fact that some people take longer to dissolve into the Lifestream, perhaps based on their will to hang out, hatred, regret, etc...

 

[Ite]

Okay, but, like, bodies still decompose normally in FFVII's universe though, don't they? I posit yes. Bugenhagen specifially mentions bodily decomposition to help Cloud understand how the soul returning to the Lifestream is similar, not literally the same thing:

"Eventually... all humans die. What happens to them after they die?
The body decomposes, and returns to the Planet. That much everyone knows.
What about their consciousness, their hearts and their souls?
The soul too returns to the Planet.
And not only those of humans, but everything on this Planet.
In fact, all living things in the universe, are the same."

I take from this that the human understanding of bodily death in FFVII is the same as in the real world. As in, humans, animals and plants go kaput like we would expect them to, and those left behind can observe the grim transformation of our vessel into worm-food. The "soul" part of death is talked about like it is invisible - just like the real world. Otherwise, the speech wouldn't have the leading question "What about their hearts and their souls?" If it were plain to the naked eye, everyone would already know.

But hey, for all I know, literal pyreflies might be what they decide to run with in 7R2. In which case, won't I look foolish. Living franchises are harder to analyze than dead poets or the one-and-done Final Fantasies from 1-X.

The remake could simply introduce the fact that some people take longer to dissolve into the Lifestream, perhaps based on their will to hang out, hatred, regret, etc...

My will to hang out is strong. I shall linger beyond this mortal coil until the keg is empty and the sun comes up baby!