Hopes for Remake & Rebirth (story/content)

[KindOfBlue]

To me the game seems completely aware that Zack being alive is not supposed to happen so whether he’s alive in a parallel timeline or there’s only one timeline that’s been altered, his survival is treated as an anomaly and I think that’s a good thing.

Imagine if instead we got a soap opera scenario where Zack is revealed to have been alive the whole time and we only thought he was dead and the audience is now supposed to just accept he’s been alive the whole time. Here, he actually did die so the effects of him now surviving are sure to come up (and my money’s on him not making it out of this alive anyways).

Thing is, Zack has a pretty good distance from the OG story except for scenes like meeting his parents, Sephiroth’s illusion, the Lifestream, or the flashback to his death. So if they want to elaborate more on Zack, I think they already have some specific areas in the story that they can expand without messing up the other story beats.

They could also save the craziest stuff for the end like they did already in FF7R. Unless if Zack joins the party and interacts with everybody regularly, I’m not too worried about the original story not being told properly.

 

[Dfantasy]

It probably means Zack is dead from Cloud's point in time but there's also a Zack who's alive in a different timeline that's created thanks to what happened.

Which means Zack is dead in FFVII. But something in the future could happen where another Zack could appear and then have to die to completely wrap up whatever new parallel plot thread that's spun from the subsequent new narrative parallel to the Remake.

I'd like to support this idea so we can all have closure on Zack's real status LOL.

 

[FFShinra]

I wonder if new Zack dies like OG Zack does since he survived CC death.

 

[Alex Strife]

I wonder if new Zack dies like OG Zack does since he survived CC death.

That's one possibility I thought about, actually. Technically speaking, there is room for that to happen. He survives CC death, and the last we see of him... is him carrying Cloud like he does in the orginal game.

Lateral thinking: What if the "terrier timeline" is actually the FFVII OG, and FFVII:R is whatever the hell they want to do with it?

But as I always say, I would be very much in favour of the following:
- Zack has been introduced at the end of FFVII:R.
- During FFVII:R Part 2, he is shown through various flashbacks and even some playable segments. Almost as a parallel story which implies that's in the past.
- Zack's storyline continues until the point where Cloud's real background is revealed. At THAT point, we all find out what's the deal with Zack. We all thought he may be alive but he wasn't, so we're surprised. The new players find out what was all that about as well. Everyone gets a new experience.

Something like that, anyway...

 

[Kain424]

Yeah, that's sort of what I've been pushing since day 1. If they want to do the original story, but in a new and expanded way, that seems like the best bet. Anything else is kind of just alternate universe type stuff.

 

[abigail]

i had this idea the other day about Zack being like Final destination or Life is strange. where it's as you say Alex. and those segments "in the past" with Zack he keeps almost dying. as the timeline tries to readjust to the change and "fix" it. meanwhile the main party is moving on with the rest of the OG plot. until things tie together again. "oops, turns out it wasnt an alt universe and everything is back together again"

but whether it means he'll die anyway in part 2. or still keep it a mystery by the end of part 2 I'm not sure. it depends on how much further the story goes. but i'd rather Zack "Alive or not?" not be stretched too far as a mystery.

but it's like if (IF) aerith likes this time "but at what cost?" it could be the same for Zack.

Though whenever I mention different endings anywhere (similar to how Life is Strange handles it, very "but at what cost?"). somebody doesn't like it.

and I can see why different endings are going against what the OG had. but I still think about this. "Aerith and Zack lives, but at what cost???"

 

[eleamaya]

and I can see why different endings are going against what the OG had. but I still think about this. "Aerith and Zack lives, but at what cost???"

Price of Freedom is steep. That's why Aerith was scared to get it before deciding to fight the Whispers.

 

[Littlewing]

Spoiler: (spammy nonsense)

Control the redline, that anime is almost how I imagine what it would look like if they put anarchy libertarian socialism into practice, though it depends if it is really “libertarian” and is held towards that principle or ideal. It is hard to explain here, but I came to this conclusion on the theory through this series and AMVs, basically in my experiences most people just want power or something, and you can’t take away freedom completely because imho there hasn’t been very many good dictatorships in history. I’ll try to remember what it was when I have free time.

From my personal experiences, I was shown cold indifference from the world, and that you can’t really stop people from only caring about fancy job titles and big and grandiose materialistic consumeristic items.

It is jut in my opinion both the allied powers and axis powers if you were to talk about them as if they still exist, it is like they both prefer or favour extremism preferences for its citizens and individuals as a whole. I think they both prefer or desire servile, docile, passive, and is doing a disservice to the great diversity and uniqueness which exists within the human condition and continuum.

All in the name and pursuit for this perfect system to somehow “work” it’s all “one” one religion, one government, one cohesive body and also it is the mark of the beast supposedly. I spent a lot of time searching for meaning, and attempting to deeply understand the world and I spent a lot of time on philosophy and I got to the point where I partially agreeed with Nietzsche “it is the will to power and nothing more” but I don’t know for sure!

 

[Makoeyes987]

Umm, @Littlewing ... What the fuck are you talking about?

Because I have no idea what you're saying in regards to the Remake of FFVII, and you're sorta sounding kinda spammy with the random pictures and video clips. Are you sure you're human?

 

[Tetsujin]

 

[Odysseus]

Given his previous replies I'm pretty sure he has some kind of mental issue

 

[Saven]

I could've sworn I was reading a transcript of a GTA3 Chatterbox phone caller.

 

[Erotic Materia]

Honestly not saying this to insult the guy, but his posts sound like schizophrenic ramblings. Words that technically make sense, but there's no theme connecting them. Like free association writing, but without end.

 

[Odysseus]

All I'm saying is that it sure did take a while for TLS to do something last time we had someone with clear issues.

 

[Shademp]

I hope the carcass of Sapphire Weapon will be visible from your perspective when approaching the Underwater Reactor and when you leave at the start of the submarine section.

One thing I only just now realized is that I've long held the headcanon that Weapon can't die but that they only go to sleep and regenerate, unless some big planetary force (like Holy) tell them to stop being active. It's a probable misreading of what Ifalna says in the tapes at Icicle Inn.

PS1, Japanese line:
「ウェポンが消えることはありません。
　…この星のどこかで眠っているのです」

PS1, English line:
“Weapon cannot vanish.
…it remains asleep
somewhere on the Planet.”

The line is in response to Gast asking “So, Weapon no longer exists on this Planet?”, so Ifalna may simply be stating that Weapon don't just disappear on their own, stating nothing about their regenerative capabilities.

Since Omega Weapon is part of the planet's whole cycle-shindig I reckon that particular one is effectively immortal and will simply regenerate when the time is right, but I'm not sure how to view the five anti-Jenova Weapon (Sapphire, Ultimate/Ultima, Diamond, Emerald and Ruby).

All this speculative interpretation aside, I wouldn't put it past Square if they changed the Underwater Reactor scenario so that Sapphire Weapon started to regenerate and that it had to be quelled with submarine missiles to postpone its re-awakening. I hope they don't go that route because it would diminish the satisfying impact from the Junon cannon blowing Sapphire Weapon's head off, though admittedly depicting Weapon as an eternally regenerating zombie would make them a bit scarier as threats.

Is anyone hoping that Ruby- and Emerald Weapon will be integrated into story scenes? With the Remake generally turning the dial up to eleven it seems tempting to include Emerald Weapon somewhere in the Underwater Reactor scenario. By nature of it being a mako reactor it definitely makes sense as a target for EW to focus in on, destroying the reactor and some Shinra subs and nearly taking our protagonists down as well.

Story-wise I don't think we need to see each planetary Weapon definitively defeated in the main, obligatory narrative. There is something to be said about optional super-bosses remaining undisclosed as to whether they were defeated in the narrative or if the victory over them *only* exists in gameplay. But I am tempted to see the Weapons, particularly Ruby and Emerald, integrated into story scenarios.

Should Ruby Weapon emerge and tear down the Gold Saucer, forcing the money-drenched Dio to face the angry inhabitants of Corel Prison after he's crash-landed on the ground? Should this somehow be integrated into the North Corel scenario with the Huge Materia? Many options that are at the risk of bloating- and dragging the story, but interesting possibilities nonetheless.

 

[Theozilla]

I hope the battles against the weapons take some inspiration from Shadow of the Colossus in being able to convey a sense of scale while fighting.

While the battle against Whisper Harbinger was fun, I don’t want the battles against the weapons to have to be through smaller sized proxies, that wouldn’t be satisfying (like imagine if in FFX the only way to damage Sin was through beating up the sea parasites who lived on Sin’s body).

FFXV Kingsglaive I think demonstrated that they at least know how to convey the scale of the Weapons at least in pre-rendered animation (like they literally had Diamond weapons) hopefully that can translate well to gameplay.

 

[KindOfBlue]

If I can’t have Tifa suplex Emerald Weapon to oblivion while underwater, the whole remake project gets a 0/10 from me

 

[waw]

I hope to see the various Weapons all included in the story and probably taken down simultaneously with a party split. There's enough characters to pull it off, plus some NPCs showing up to help.

 

[Shademp]

A macabre thing to wish for, but I hope that in Aerith's death scene that the Masamune clearly penetrates her heart and not just her abdomen.

This strikes at the heart (pun intended) of why I had difficulty taking the death scenes of Biggs and Jessie seriously: Their deaths are purely cinematic/dramatic and without the visuals to convince me that they are actually dying. Years of in-depth movie analyses, and learning more about how people actually die, makes it difficult to take a large number of movie- and video game deaths seriously. I feel obnoxious from this nitpickiness but it is nevertheless a very real pet peeve of mine.

Aerith's original death scene has famously been picked apart in the same way. The general conclusion is that Aerith's lower body would have been paralyzed and she may suffer some internal bleeding that may kill her in a number of hours or days, but the intended impression of a near-instant death simply cannot apply under scrutiny. If the Remake changes the death scene to include a more decisive killing blow that would heighten the impact of the scene for me.


Personally I hope they don't go the route popularly speculated of having Aerith die by Cloud's sword. I feel that it's taking the drama one step too far and perhaps even in a lazy manner. It's a challenge to Remake the original death scene and keeping its impact while still retaining the same elements. If they change the manner of Aerith's death, then yes that's an easy way to achieve a heightened, shocking impact. But given Cloud's mental struggles (very human mental struggles I should add), I have difficulty seeing Cloud becoming anything other than catatonic after his own sword is plunged into Aerith. The "Cloud kills Aerith" scenario doesn't work in my mind because it's too much for the story to continue after that point.

The original game did it right by Cloud *almost* killing Aerith but getting snapped out of it at the last moment. It addresses the known threat of Sephiroth's mind control over Cloud but without taking the consequence so far that he ACTUALLY kills one of his friends.

 

[ForceStealer]

That inescapable 'game theory' video definitely did become obnoxious

 

[Sephiroth Crescent]

I want more Aerith and Cid interactions.
Maybe have her reprimand him about the way he treats Shera or whatever.

 

[KindOfBlue]

Aerith's original death scene has famously been picked apart in the same way.

You know...I think maybe, just maybe, FF7 fans are notoriously bad at reading too much into things

It's a challenge to Remake the original death scene and keeping its impact while still retaining the same elements.

I’m afraid that’s already an impossible task when like everybody already knows she dies

It addresses the known threat of Sephiroth's mind control over Cloud but without taking the consequence so far that he ACTUALLY kills one of his friends.

I wonder if people felt the same way about killing Aerith in the first place considering how many people wanted a way to bring her back...I dunno, for all the work done to establish that something is going to be different only for it to be exactly the same seems underwhelming to me, and I can’t imagine any other way to have nearly as much impact other than raising the stakes.

Thinking outside of myself for a second, if they did go in that direction, I doubt the average person is going to pay much mind to overanalyzing the intricacies of why it works or why it doesn’t work because the average audience member isn’t a nerd like us who likes to debate pixels with strangers on the internet. My guess is that for most people, it’ll be tragic as hell whether you knew about the OG death or not.

I could be wrong of course, but that direction doesn’t seem as polarizing to me as something like, say, TLOU2. I’m sure some of us might roll our eyes at it, but my bet is that most people would probably be wrecked by something like that and if they’re looking to evoke those same feelings people had with the OG, I don’t think just copying it will be enough to satisfy the devs.

 

[Kuraudo.]

A macabre thing to wish for, but I hope that in Aerith's death scene that the Masamune clearly penetrates her heart and not just her abdomen.

This strikes at the heart (pun intended) of why I had difficulty taking the death scenes of Biggs and Jessie seriously: Their deaths are purely cinematic/dramatic and without the visuals to convince me that they are actually dying. Years of in-depth movie analyses, and learning more about how people actually die, makes it difficult to take a large number of movie- and video game deaths seriously. I feel obnoxious from this nitpickiness but it is nevertheless a very real pet peeve of mine.

Aerith's original death scene has famously been picked apart in the same way. The general conclusion is that Aerith's lower body would have been paralyzed and she may suffer some internal bleeding that may kill her in a number of hours or days, but the intended impression of a near-instant death simply cannot apply under scrutiny. If the Remake changes the death scene to include a more decisive killing blow that would heighten the impact of the scene for me.


Personally I hope they don't go the route popularly speculated of having Aerith die by Cloud's sword. I feel that it's taking the drama one step too far and perhaps even in a lazy manner. It's a challenge to Remake the original death scene and keeping its impact while still retaining the same elements. If they change the manner of Aerith's death, then yes that's an easy way to achieve a heightened, shocking impact. But given Cloud's mental struggles (very human mental struggles I should add), I have difficulty seeing Cloud becoming anything other than catatonic after his own sword is plunged into Aerith. The "Cloud kills Aerith" scenario doesn't work in my mind because it's too much for the story to continue after that point.

The original game did it right by Cloud *almost* killing Aerith but getting snapped out of it at the last moment. It addresses the known threat of Sephiroth's mind control over Cloud but without taking the consequence so far that he ACTUALLY kills one of his friends.

The only thing with Remake as with President Shinra death scene... Will be the lifestream particles... If you die straight then your body should vanish on the same moment.
In President Shinra's death scene we don't see it clearly but it's off-screen since straight after his body diseppears.
So for Aerith I don't know how they will translate this.

 

[FFShinra]

Ancients die differently, perhaps....

 

[Ite]

I really hope the “disintegrating corpses” stays firmly in the realm of Video Game Abstraction/metaphor and not a pyreflies type thing we’re meant to take literally.