Hopes for Remake & Rebirth (story/content)

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lithiumkatana17

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Lith
Okay, so today at work I was thinking to myself about how, because of Crisis Core, it's safe to assume that Tseng knew who Cloud was the whole time. Well, so would Cissnei. Did she run off with all of the other Turks in Before Crisis? Where was she during the events of the original game? Would it be possible to add her into the remake? It could add a layer of depth to the story.

I imagine a scene with Cissnei bursting into Tseng's office after seeing security footage of Avalanche blowing up one of the reactors. She slams the door shut and asks, "Tseng, do you realize who that is?"

To which he would reply, "Yes, I do. But let's wait and see how this plays out." Or something to that effect.

That makes me question how they're going to play out Tseng's character in the remake. In the original game he seems like the perfect, devoted Shinra employee, but in BC and CC we see that he's willing to go above and beyond for certain people, and I'm sure Zack's death probably brought about some changes in him. If this game is having multiple installments, there better be some room for some Tseng/Turk love!

Or am I the only one who liked Cissnei and hopes she gets more screen time? :P

I liked Cissnei! I hope we at least get some information about what happened to her.


Maybe a combination of both. They'll probably leave out Zack's ascension to the Lifestream though, given that this won't be Zack's game.

And it was cheesy as hell. :monster:

Aww, don't say that. The music made the scene a little bit cheesy, yes, but I thought it gave Zack's story a real sense of closure since we actually got to see him go to a better place and reunite with his mentor.
 

Starling

Pro Adventurer
I like her too. The Turks seem a bit low in number considering how much Shinra relies on them. BC's a mess though so Cissnei's the only new Turk that has any chance of showing up anywhere else, thanks to her role in CC.
 

Channy

Bad Habit
AKA
Ruby Rose, Lucy
Okay, so today at work I was thinking to myself about how, because of Crisis Core, it's safe to assume that Tseng knew who Cloud was the whole time. Well, so would Cissnei. Did she run off with all of the other Turks in Before Crisis? Where was she during the events of the original game? Would it be possible to add her into the remake? It could add a layer of depth to the story.

I imagine a scene with Cissnei bursting into Tseng's office after seeing security footage of Avalanche blowing up one of the reactors. She slams the door shut and asks, "Tseng, do you realize who that is?"

To which he would reply, "Yes, I do. But let's wait and see how this plays out." Or something to that effect.

i am so on board with all of that

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Tennyo

Higher Further Faster
It could also give more attention to Zack's role in the process. I'd like some evidence that Tseng and Cissnei mourned him.
 

lithiumkatana17

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Lith
It could also give more attention to Zack's role in the process. I'd like some evidence that Tseng and Cissnei mourned him.

And more clarification on Aerith's distressed look in the ending. I think they may play it off that she knew Zack was dead this time around.

And that's another thing that the remake has me excited for. Those facial expressions we didn't have in the original. The look on Aerith's face when she sees Cloud with Zack's Buster Sword for the first time. The look on Tifa's face as Cloud recounts Nibelheim to the party.

Just... everything. I'm a sucker for cinematography.

EDIT:

Speaking of that, which moments are you looking forward to the most where we finally get a glimpse into the character's facial expressions?
 
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X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
I'd really like it if you had a little sidequest where you could find a way to give all of Aerith's undelivered letters (that Tseng had kept locked away) to Zack's parents. Really, a whole sense of closure to that entire arc that makes it feel final for the game, but lets you also see why Cloud gets hung up on it, thus leading into ACC.




X :neo:
 

Starling

Pro Adventurer
You know, there's a very real chance a lot of stuff from the compilation will get retconned. They're likely keeping at least some, but some major things will probably be discarded.

Facial expressions I'm looking forward to seeing:

Nanaki when he learns the truth about his father

The look on Cloud's face when Sephiroth points out Tifa's doubts at the crater

Vincent seeing Lucrecia again

Cid when he see's the planet from space

Barret when Cait Sith calls him out on the Avalanche stuff

Tifa when she learns everyone was watching her moment with Cloud under the highwind
 

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
You know, there's a very real chance a lot of stuff from the compilation will get retconned. They're likely keeping at least some, but some major things will probably be discarded.

I'm curious what makes people think this when there has been absolutely ZERO indication anywhere that this is happening.




X :neo:
 

Flare

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Flare
Character expressions I'd like to see...

All of them. :monster:

Seriously, that's true, but I'm looking forward to seeing Nanaki's expressions all the time in HD glory.

Also, Sephiroth during the Nibelheim flashbacks. I want to see him in these amazing graphics when he was still normal and himself. Of course I'll probably feel all mangled when he gets those hurt expressions, but I want to see it regardless. I love him in CC (and I'm sort of wishing for more flashbacks with him, if possible).

This will sound terrible, but I want to see Cloud when he's all screwed up in the wheelchair. I want to see how they portray that, and I want it to make me feel even more shocked and devastated then it did when I played the original game.
 

Starling

Pro Adventurer
You know, there's a very real chance a lot of stuff from the compilation will get retconned. They're likely keeping at least some, but some major things will probably be discarded.

I'm curious what makes people think this when there has been absolutely ZERO indication anywhere that this is happening.




X :neo:

I saw what you said before you changed your post. What's up with that? I was about to post and everything. Anyway, the remake is the opportunity for a fresh start without all the continuity errors and tone changes throughout the compilation. Just one narrative focused on the OG and everything they wanted to tell but couldn't. Stuff like the details of the Buster Sword taken from the compilation add to its appearance so they're keeping that. BC has a lot of continuity issues and stuff that doesn't make sense so whatever they may be borrowing from that would probably require retconning the rest of it. Who knows if they'll reference Deepground and Genesis but chances are they'd prefer the OG version of the reactor scene to the CC one. I just wanted to say what they don't keep from the compilation may include stuff that was important in one of the other games.
 

ForceStealer

Double Growth
Outside of BC stuff, none of that would constitute a retcon, though, really. There's no reason for Deepground or Genesis to appear or be referenced, given that the Compilation already said their existence was kept completely secret (regardless of how realistic or unrealistic that might be). Similarly, Genesis was intentionally placed in Nibelheim somewhere that Cloud technically wouldn't know about. Again, you can dispute the grace or believability with which they achieved that, but it was still the intent. So if none of that appeared, that wouldn't be a retcon.
 

Roger

He/him
AKA
Minato
Outside of BC stuff, none of that would constitute a retcon, though, really. There's no reason for Deepground or Genesis to appear or be referenced, given that the Compilation already said their existence was kept completely secret (regardless of how realistic or unrealistic that might be). Similarly, Genesis was intentionally placed in Nibelheim somewhere that Cloud technically wouldn't know about. Again, you can dispute the grace or believability with which they achieved that, but it was it was still the intent. So if none of that appeared, that wouldn't be a retcon.

Sephiroth, Zack and Cloud were sent to Nibelheim to look for the Hollander's devices originally taken from Modeoheim, not just cause strong creatures appearing. There should at least be a reference to this if they stick to CC canon. Given that Cloud was AT Modeoheim, there's absolutely no reason to keep this from him either.
 

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
@Starling: The fact that those changes in tone from the OG exist doesn't actually give ANY evidence that they'd undo them though. If anything it's just as likely that we'd see hints of those different tones already present in the Remake that makes them feel like they fit better or more naturally into the most recent canon version of the Original Game's remade content.

While Genesis' commentary isn't necessary for Cloud's narrative perspective in the Reactor scene (and is intentionally obscured like Force said), what makes you think that we won't see a Dumbapple left on the stairs?

The single thing we know for certain about the Remake is that it is being made into multi-part game to encompass everything they want to be able to include as completely as possible. That doesn't sound like a team that's interested in cutting out the expanded content they spent the last 10 years making in the Compilation. It sounds like the exact opposite.

So, I have to say that — based on the limited information that we know so far — it looks like they're probably NOT going to be scrapping major parts of the Compilation, and there's a very real chance that the Compilation WON'T get retconned. Thus far, I don't see a single shred of actual evidence indicating otherwise, (despite the fact that I see it being talked about in bright pink text a lot). If there's something that's been said or suggested about the Compilation content that points to them removing any of it, I'd be interested in hearing it.


tl;dr - currently there's no indication that the Remake is also a reboot, or that they're at all likely to cut out Compilation content rather than adapt the Remake's expanded story to match the Compilation.

@Major Zero: I really hope that Banora and Modeoheim are accessible locations in the Remake for these reasons. (Also, Banora would be a great location to get a Minerva summon Materia or something).



X :neo:
 

hian

Purist
@Starling: The fact that those changes in tone from the OG exist doesn't actually give ANY evidence that they'd undo them though. If anything it's just as likely that we'd see hints of those different tones already present in the Remake that makes them feel like they fit better or more naturally into the most recent canon version of the Original Game's remade content.

While Genesis' commentary isn't necessary for Cloud's narrative perspective in the Reactor scene (and is intentionally obscured like Force said), what makes you think that we won't see a Dumbapple left on the stairs?

The single thing we know for certain about the Remake is that it is being made into multi-part game to encompass everything they want to be able to include as completely as possible. That doesn't sound like a team that's interested in cutting out the expanded content they spent the last 10 years making in the Compilation. It sounds like the exact opposite.

So, I have to say that — based on the limited information that we know so far — it looks like they're probably NOT going to be scrapping major parts of the Compilation, and there's a very real chance that the Compilation WON'T get retconned. Thus far, I don't see a single shred of actual evidence indicating otherwise, (despite the fact that I see it being talked about in bright pink text a lot). If there's something that's been said or suggested about the Compilation content that points to them removing any of it, I'd be interested in hearing it.


tl;dr - currently there's no indication that the Remake is also a reboot, or that they're at all likely to cut out Compilation content rather than adapt the Remake's expanded story to match the Compilation.

@Major Zero: I really hope that Banora and Modeoheim are accessible locations in the Remake for these reasons. (Also, Banora would be a great location to get a Minerva summon Materia or something).



X :neo:

I would say there are several parts in the Famitsu/Dengeki interviews that indicates an intent to distance themselves from the compilation (at the very least, as it is/in the form it is right now).
The choice to not use a sub-title in order to not get the remake confused with a compilation product, shows clearly that this game is its own beast, and the content of the game will stand on its own.

The second part is the answer the give to the direct question about whether it will tie in to the compilation (Will the story be adjusted to [things like/among other things] fit (literally “be made to match up with”) with the times, or in connection with the compilation?), which goes as follows :

Nomura :
”Apart from delving even deeper into the episodes [of the game], we’re preparing tricks/devices/gimmicks (Author’s note : there was no single word to properly capture the essence of this word) among other things. After all, isn’t it the case that the people who played the original game, the important parts included, knows the story from beginning to end? We’re thinking we want those people as well to be able to get (literally “taste”) surprised [by the story] once again.”
Yoshinori Kitase :
”We don’t want to do a remake that ends with [just] tracing [people’s] nostalgia. We want to make fans of the original excited (literally : “dokidoki”, the sound of a racing heart in Japanese) again. We’re re-adjusting the story putting those [kind of] feelings into it.”

This answer deftly circumvents the very issue of tie-ins, despite that being a central part of the question, and very often in Japanese culture, this is indicative of a negative, or that whatever is going to happen is so different it might as well be a negative.

Also, as I said in another thread, the parts about changing things to surprise people already familiar with FFVII is equally true to the compilation products, meaning that even if they were to borrow from them, they're likely to change/retcon parts of that as well.

The fact of the matter is that a lot of the additions made to FFVII's history in the compilation only make sense in the context of the specific compilation games.
Adding Genesis, or references to Genesis (or Angeal for instance) adds nothing of value to FFVII's plot, unless you're going to add significant parts of Crisis Core itself, but adding significant parts of Crisis Core wouldn't make sense with the flow of the story of the original at all (I mean, who'd be telling Zack's story in the context of the original game? Everybody who could really have told it to any substantial degree are already dead)

FFVII has it's own story - it's own complete story no-less. It's a story that you can add tons to without even going into the compilation stuff - and while some compilation stuff can work within the context of the original narrative (like the compilation buster sword guard being underneath the original guard, and breaking apart upon the reveal of Cloud's past), many other parts of the compilation are not self-contained in that way.
They only make sense when they're fleshed out within the context of the product they appeared in like CC, or AC.
Adding them to the remake might serve as easter-eggs to fans of the compilation, but they also run the risk of distracting and frustrating new players or people unfamiliar with the less available compilation products (CC was only released for PSP after all).

Finally, people change.
There is a reason that there have been great changes in tone and style throughout the compilation, and retcons as well. This is because teams change, people change, the times change, and the format changes.
The fact that changes have happened continually up until now should alert people to the possibility that things will change once again.
Simply put, if it happened once, why won't it happen again?
Saying, "well they put so much work into the compilation" is a non-starter, because you could just as easily have said that about the original game in reference to future changes made by the compilation, and they did that anyway. Besides, who're they?
Apart from Nojima being writer, the only product I know of in the compilation that actually has the same set-up as this remake more or less, is the team of AC, which happens after FFVII in either case.
In many ways, I'd see AC references as being more likely than CC references, especially seeing as how CC was a relatively minor game by virtue of only being released on PSP.
 
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ForceStealer

Double Growth
There would be no reason at all for Deepground to make any appearance or mention whether they cut it or not. According to the game's own plot, no one's seen or heard from them since before FF7.
But, given that Dirge is the only entry not written by Nojima, if something were to get the axe, it might well be that.

@hian - I'm not saying I expect Genesis or Zack's story at all. I'm saying that their absence would not constitute a retcon.
 

hian

Purist
@hian - I'm not saying I expect Genesis or Zack's story at all. I'm saying that their absence would not constitute a retcon.

I'm not saying you were saying that. I was replying to X-SOLDIER and making a general statement.

I think not including Zack's story at all, would constitute a retcon though, since it was in the original.
Genesis on the other hand, not so much.

There would be no reason at all for Deepground to make any appearance or mention whether they cut it or not. According to the game's own plot, no one's seen or heard from them since before FF7.
But, given that Dirge is the only entry not written by Nojima, if something were to get the axe, it might well be that..

I don't think Nojima's involvement is necessarily a good metric for that, since he is not a writer to this series in the same sense most authors of books are writers.
His writing, as for most other game's writers working with larger teams, is not entirely his own creative process - it's an organic process informed by the concepts provided him by the director and the producer, or at the very least worked out with the director and the producer.

So, while I agree that a product he had no involvement with might stand a larger chance of getting the axe, I think you could include that to projects that Kitase or Nomura weere not significantly involved with as well.
 

Tennyo

Higher Further Faster
No I realize that Deepground wouldn't be in the remake, but I would like it to just not be in anything at all. Completely make it so that it never existed. :monster:

I was just trying to be funny. :P
 

hleV

Pro Adventurer
Can't say I remember too well, but in OG, has it ever been explained how Aerith and her boyfriend-with-Mako-eyes came to be? Did we get to see that it was Zack? I can't remember anything like that from my multiple playthroughs so I assume not. Which is weird. CC kind of fills us in regarding this (though I hated how Zack fell through the church's roof just like Cloud, among other things), but I think they should expand on that in the Remake.

Also I think DC is somewhat of a retcon to OG due to it seemingly having way more advanced technology.
 

Flare

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Flare
While Genesis' commentary isn't necessary for Cloud's narrative perspective in the Reactor scene (and is intentionally obscured like Force said), what makes you think that we won't see a Dumbapple left on the stairs?

If this is all we get to see of that scene, I'd be a bit disappointed but glad to know it's the 'official' way the scene goes in the Remake.
I'm actually curious to know why people would think Cloud wouldn't know of Genesis being there. To my knowledge, when Cloud's 'remembering' Sephiroth in the Reactor when he starts to get freaked out about how he was made, he's obviously recounting what Zack told him afterwards since Zack was the one there and not Cloud. Wouldn't it make sense that if Genesis was the one who caused that in Sephiroth (for the most part), that Zack would mention him too? I can't imagine all that going down, and Zack even being attacked by Genesis, and then Zack decides to omit him from the story he relates to Cloud.
And now I'm curious, does Cloud know who Genesis is? Surely if he was aiming to get into SOLDIER so badly, he would've heard of Angeal and Genesis both, right? Seeing as they were right there next to Sephiroth?

@Major Zero: I really hope that Banora and Modeoheim are accessible locations in the Remake for these reasons. (Also, Banora would be a great location to get a Minerva summon Materia or something).

Can't agree more, I'm hoping these places will be included in the Remake as ruins you can visit; even better if you could find a bit of evidence of CC in them. Stuff that new players probably won't get, but those who played CC will.
That's why I think they don't even have to 'tell' you about anything from CC, really, but they can show the evidence of it and I'd be fine with that.

Can't say I remember too well, but in OG, has it ever been explained how Aerith and her boyfriend-with-Mako-eyes came to be? Did we get to see that it was Zack? I can't remember anything like that from my multiple playthroughs so I assume not. Which is weird. CC kind of fills us in regarding this (though I hated how Zack fell through the church's roof just like Cloud, among other things), but I think they should expand on that in the Remake.

I don't think she states it was Zack, rather I think as the player you can guess or learn it was Zack through the little hints, especially when you find his parents in Gongaga, talking about Zack having a girlfriend, and Aerith reacting weird to it and then you can remember her talking about the boyfriend that was 'just like Cloud', which once you see Cloud took on Zack's persona/memories, you can extrapolate that Zack and Aerith were together. Correct me if I'm wrong, though!
 

Tennyo

Higher Further Faster
Can't say I remember too well, but in OG, has it ever been explained how Aerith and her boyfriend-with-Mako-eyes came to be? Did we get to see that it was Zack? I can't remember anything like that from my multiple playthroughs so I assume not. Which is weird. CC kind of fills us in regarding this (though I hated how Zack fell through the church's roof just like Cloud, among other things), but I think they should expand on that in the Remake.

Also I think DC is somewhat of a retcon to OG due to it seemingly having way more advanced technology.

If you go into Zack's house in Gongaga you can talk to his parents. If Aerith is in your party she kind of makes this fact apparent.
 

ForceStealer

Double Growth
I figured it was that Cloud didn't know who Genesis was (a dubious notion, I know, but the best one and it is at least a tiny possibility) and so his Jenova-addled brain didn't include it.
 

Roger

He/him
AKA
Minato
Finally, people change.
There is a reason that there have been great changes in tone and style throughout the compilation, and retcons as well. This is because teams change, people change, the times change, and the format changes.
The fact that changes have happened continually up until now should alert people to the possibility that things will change once again.
Simply put, if it happened once, why won't it happen again?
Saying, "well they put so much work into the compilation" is a non-starter, because you could just as easily have said that about the original game in reference to future changes made by the compilation, and they did that anyway. Besides, who're they?
Apart from Nojima being writer, the only product I know of in the compilation that actually has the same set-up as this remake more or less, is the team of AC, which happens after FFVII in either case.
In many ways, I'd see AC references as being more likely than CC references, especially seeing as how CC was a relatively minor game by virtue of only being released on PSP.

I agree that people change, but they created Advent Children Complete mainly to put more Crisis Core fanservice into Advent Children, Dissidia likewise has Zack references and then they brought him back Birth By Sleep. Zack was popular enough back then and that wasn't so very long ago.
 

CrashOuch

she/her
AKA
Sara
Who knows what they're gonna do? :) It's gonna be really interesting to see if they keep compilation things, what compilation things they keep, if they change any compilation things, if they clear up any confusing bits/plot holes in the compilation things, etcetcetc. We all know it so well that we'll be able to spot any easter eggs even if they're tiny, like Dumbapples left on steps or whatever, so even if that's all there is it'll be cool to look out for things.
 
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