Hopes for Remake & Rebirth (story/content)

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aszach01

Pro Adventurer
I'm probably one of the few who didn't want a remake but hey it is now confirmed that it will have one. My only wish is to not change the story or plot not a single thing cuz I'm really worried about SE adding some scenes or story that will eventually can be a plothole of the story or any characterization. Just keep the original as it is.
 

Lex

Administrator
Actually, a massive bunch of us didn't want/ didn't care about a remake. It's just that when they announced it we all shat bricks (and are continuing to do so, because MOAR FFVII!!!)

And yeah the original game has many plot holes as it stands XD
 

Tashasaurous

Tash for Short
AKA
Sailor Moon, Mini Moon, Hotaru, Cardcaptor Sakura, Meilin, Xion, Kairi, Aqua, Tifa, Aerith, Yuffie, Elena, Misty, May, Dawn, Casey, Fiona, Ellie
Actually, a massive bunch of us didn't want/ didn't care about a remake. It's just that when they announced it we all shat bricks (and are continuing to do so, because MOAR FFVII!!!)

And yeah the original game has many plot holes as it stands XD

I'm one of these people. Come to think of it, there were a bunch of us who didn't think the remake would actually happen, because at the time, a new story title to the FFVII franchise seemed more likely or a remake of Before Crisis.

The biggest plot hole to me was what happened to the characters that survived at the end of the original game, and where Red XIII got those two kids of his in 500 years.

Guess what Square Enix tell us on certain games, like-and I quote,:quote:-"We're not doing the remake" or "HD version of KH: Dream Drop Distance is not happening", actually say the opposite to catch us off guard.
 

Mayo Master

Pro Adventurer
I can appreciate that you want Cloud's character arc to remain the same as in the OG. However, plenty of sections of the original script could seriously use a rewrite. One of many examples: the first jaunt in Gold Saucer/Desert Prison, from how Cait Sith joins the party to how they leave, not to mention why they would have been mistaken for a crime they didn't commit while being in a giant casino (video surveillance, anyone?).
Don't get me wrong, I love the story and characters' arcs as a whole, but saying that the OG script is flawless is, IMO, preposterous.
 

aszach01

Pro Adventurer
I can appreciate that you want Cloud's character arc to remain the same as in the OG. However, plenty of sections of the original script could seriously use a rewrite. One of many examples: the first jaunt in Gold Saucer/Desert Prison, from how Cait Sith joins the party to how they leave, not to mention why they would have been mistaken for a crime they didn't commit while being in a giant casino (video surveillance, anyone?).
Don't get me wrong, I love the story and characters' arcs as a whole, but saying that the OG script is flawless is, IMO, preposterous.

That I can agree, well I never said the OG script is flawless but the most important part of the story is the characterization of Cloud so hopefully they won't messed that up but prior to those thing you mentioned I have no objection with that
 

lentils on lent

Lv. 25 Adventurer
If the remake is trying to be more realistic there are lots of storytelling problems they’ll have to address


2nd BOMBING MISSION:

  • Why does President Shinra show up in person? Why doesn’t Barret shoot him then and there.
  • If Shinra knows reactor 2 is being attacked why does he only send one robot to stop them instead of surrounding the place with soldiers?
  • How do Barret and Tifa survive if the bomb goes off while they’re still inside the reactor?


MEETING AERIS

  • Why does Cloud go to Aeris’ house and take a nap instead of informing Barret and Tifa that he’s still alive?


WALL MARKET

  • I think Cloud would have to be lying in the church unconscious for at least a day to allow time for Barret and Tifa to get back from the reactor, apprehend Don Corneo’s thugs, and form a plan for Tifa to sneak into his mansion.
  • How does Cloud smuggle his sword into Don Corneo’s mansion?
  • How do Cloud Aeris and Tifa change back into their normal clothes?


SECTOR 7 PILLAR BATTLE

  • How is it that Aeris gets captured but Marlene makes it back to Elmyra’s house?
  • President Shinra is willing to destroy 1/8th of Midgar to kill Avalanche because he can’t be bothered to narrow down their location? A simple “wanted” poster is all it would take.
MYTHRIL CAVE

  • Elena says the Turks have orders to stop AVALANCHE but they make no effort to stop you.


JUNON/SHINRA BOAT

  • Cloud walks into the barracks and gets mistaken for a solider. It’s like if Bin Laden walked into the White House and the secret service said “you must be the new guy! Here’s your uniform!” Nobody has been told about AVALANCHE or what they look like. The only explanation is that Rufus doesn’t want you to get caught (why?), despite the motorcycle chase in which Shinra forces try to catch you
  • Where do the other party members get their sailor/soldier disguises? How does Barret hide his gun arm? Where do their regular clothes get stashed?
  • How are Rufus and Heidegger unaware of the bloody massacre/battle with Jenova happening right under their feet?


GOLD SAUCER


  • Kind of strange how the only entrance into a theme park for rich people is through a town full of hobos. A thing like that deserves some kind of mention in the script
  • A scary beast and a guy with a gun for a hand are welcome in a theme park.
  • No has been warned about AVALANCHE or told what they look like (they’re hard to miss). It seems like Rufus wants you to roam free.
  • It is never clear why Cait Sith is sent to spy on you.I guess Rufus will let you to roam free as long as he can keep an eye on you.
  • Cait Sith is allowed to join your party with no questions asked. Questions like “who/what are you and why should we let you tag along?”
  • How does Dyne kill the people at the Gold Saucer if he’s being kept in the Corel prison
  • Why does Dyne pick that exact moment to start killing people? Does he detect Barret’s presence somehow?
  • Why/How does Barret wind up in the prison if he’s not in your party when you get arrested?
  • Mr. Coates won’t let you leave without Dyne’s permission? That makes zero sense. Why is the warden taking orders from a prisoner?
·
ROCKET TOWN

  • Why does Rufus need to borrow the tiny Bronco from Cid when Shinra has already has an airship?
  • How do all 9 party members travel in the Tiny Bronco?


I'm too tired to go on. Some of these points are serious plot holes that need to be addressed. Others are weird omissions that could be improved with a more detailed script. Others are stylistic issues that only become a problem when you reject FF7 as a fun cartoony video game and try to turn it into a realistic playable movie like the remake seems to be doing.



I have ideas on how to address some of these issues. Others I can't think of a solution for.
 

JBedford

Pro Adventurer
AKA
JBed
If Shinra knows reactor 2 is being attacked why does he only send one robot to stop them instead of surrounding the place with soldiers?
Well, they sort of do surround the place. A bunch of soldiers block their escape before the pres appears down the middle, and Air Buster emerges from the opposite side. But none of them shoot, and who knows what they do after the explosion. Best explanation I got is they leave Air Buster to kill the party and evacuate because they assume the reactor is going to cause an explosion as big as the No.1 bombing. Though I still can't think how Barret and Tifa could get away.

How do Barret and Tifa survive if the bomb goes off while they’re still inside the reactor?
They're not actually in the reactor. It's a bridge that links two of the plates/sectors, and leads into the reactor. Jessie accidentally makes her first bomb too powerful, so that area gets totally obliterated and kills plenty of civilians too... apparently. The explosion is enough to put the reactor out of commission but not do much externally.

How is it that Aeris gets captured but Marlene makes it back to Elmyra’s house?
I believe while Aeris was bringing Marlene to her house, Tseng found Aeris, and Aeris made a deal to go with Tseng as long as Marlene was kept safe.

This is from the English dialogue:
"She brought a little girl here with her."
"Tseng found them on their way here. She probably wasn't fast enough to get away."
"She decided to go to the Shinra in exchange for the little girl's safety."

How does Dyne kill the people at the Gold Saucer if he’s being kept in the Corel prison
I once asked that same question, and someone pointed out something to me. To get out of the prison you need to (A) get Dyne's permission and (B) win a chocobo race. So if he were a good chocobo racer he could go freely whenever he wants. Why it is that Dyne is the boss that decides who can do the chocobo race, and why it is that the chocobo race gives freedom, who knows.

Mr. Coates won’t let you leave without Dyne’s permission? That makes zero sense. Why is the warden taking orders from a prisoner?
Coates is a warden? Actually there's no scenario where Coates makes sense, but I assumed he was just a prisoner who managed to run things. Ah, thinking about VII's story makes me wonder how I can just accept all these things and consider it a good story.
 

Roger

He/him
AKA
Minato
SECTOR 7 PILLAR BATTLE

President Shinra is willing to destroy 1/8th of Midgar to kill Avalanche because he can’t be bothered to narrow down their location? A simple “wanted” poster is all it would take.

If President Shinra legit has Cloud confused with Zack or some other SOLDIER, taking them down in a straight fight might not seem likea viable option to him.

[/LIST]
MYTHRIL CAVE

  • Elena says the Turks have orders to stop AVALANCHE but they make no effort to stop you.

Wouldn't be a problem to have a fight with Tseng and Elena here.

JUNON/SHINRA BOAT

  • Cloud walks into the barracks and gets mistaken for a solider. It’s like if Bin Laden walked into the White House and the secret service said “you must be the new guy! Here’s your uniform!” Nobody has been told about AVALANCHE or what they look like. The only explanation is that Rufus doesn’t want you to get caught (why?), despite the motorcycle chase in which Shinra forces try to catch you
  • Where do the other party members get their sailor/soldier disguises? How does Barret hide his gun arm? Where do their regular clothes get stashed?
  • How are Rufus and Heidegger unaware of the bloody massacre/battle with Jenova happening right under their feet?

Have him get a uniform before running into others. Though on the Rufus subject, he'd only been CEo for a half an hour at the time and in a helicopter after getting beat up a bunch by Cloud, i think the motorcycle forces were just acting on their own initiative

GOLD SAUCER

  • Kind of strange how the only entrance into a theme park for rich people is through a town full of hobos. A thing like that deserves some kind of mention in the script


  • Agreed

    It is never clear why Cait Sith is sent to spy on you.I guess Rufus will let you to roam free as long as he can keep an eye on you.

    If Cait Sith is under Rufus' direct command here, why does it help you escape Junon whilst Reeve faces no consequences for it?
 

Clement Rage

Pro Adventurer
If the remake is trying to be more realistic there are lots of storytelling problems they’ll have to address


2nd BOMBING MISSION:

  • Why does President Shinra show up in person? Why doesn’t Barret shoot him then and there.
  • How do Barret and Tifa survive if the bomb goes off while they’re still inside the reactor?


MEETING AERIS

  • Why does Cloud go to Aeris’ house and take a nap instead of informing Barret and Tifa that he’s still alive?


WALL MARKET

  • I think Cloud would have to be lying in the church unconscious for at least a day to allow time for Barret and Tifa to get back from the reactor, apprehend Don Corneo’s thugs, and form a plan for Tifa to sneak into his mansion.
  • How does Cloud smuggle his sword into Don Corneo’s mansion?
  • How do Cloud Aeris and Tifa change back into their normal clothes?


SECTOR 7 PILLAR BATTLE

  • How is it that Aeris gets captured but Marlene makes it back to Elmyra’s house?
  • President Shinra is willing to destroy 1/8th of Midgar to kill Avalanche because he can’t be bothered to narrow down their location? A simple “wanted” poster is all it would take.
MYTHRIL CAVE

  • Elena says the Turks have orders to stop AVALANCHE but they make no effort to stop you.


JUNON/SHINRA BOAT

  • Cloud walks into the barracks and gets mistaken for a solider. It’s like if Bin Laden walked into the White House and the secret service said “you must be the new guy! Here’s your uniform!” Nobody has been told about AVALANCHE or what they look like. The only explanation is that Rufus doesn’t want you to get caught (why?), despite the motorcycle chase in which Shinra forces try to catch you
  • Where do the other party members get their sailor/soldier disguises? How does Barret hide his gun arm? Where do their regular clothes get stashed?
  • How are Rufus and Heidegger unaware of the bloody massacre/battle with Jenova happening right under their feet?


GOLD SAUCER


  • Kind of strange how the only entrance into a theme park for rich people is through a town full of hobos. A thing like that deserves some kind of mention in the script
  • A scary beast and a guy with a gun for a hand are welcome in a theme park.
  • No has been warned about AVALANCHE or told what they look like (they’re hard to miss). It seems like Rufus wants you to roam free.
  • It is never clear why Cait Sith is sent to spy on you.I guess Rufus will let you to roam free as long as he can keep an eye on you.
  • Cait Sith is allowed to join your party with no questions asked. Questions like “who/what are you and why should we let you tag along?”
  • How does Dyne kill the people at the Gold Saucer if he’s being kept in the Corel prison
  • Why does Dyne pick that exact moment to start killing people? Does he detect Barret’s presence somehow?
  • Why/How does Barret wind up in the prison if he’s not in your party when you get arrested?
  • Mr. Coates won’t let you leave without Dyne’s permission? That makes zero sense. Why is the warden taking orders from a prisoner?
·
ROCKET TOWN

  • Why does Rufus need to borrow the tiny Bronco from Cid when Shinra has already has an airship?
  • How do all 9 party members travel in the Tiny Bronco?


I'm too tired to go on. Some of these points are serious plot holes that need to be addressed. Others are weird omissions that could be improved with a more detailed script. Others are stylistic issues that only become a problem when you reject FF7 as a fun cartoony video game and try to turn it into a realistic playable movie like the remake seems to be doing.



I have ideas on how to address some of these issues. Others I can't think of a solution for.

[*]Why does President Shinra show up in person? Why doesn’t Barret shoot him then and there.

An easy fix. Just have him try, and the shot bounce off a barrier.

[*]If Shinra knows reactor 2 is being attacked why does he only send one robot to stop them instead of surrounding the place with soldiers?

He does send soldiers as well. Barret and Tifa must have fought their way out somehow. The robot was due to be field tested, so the Prez decided to kill two birds with one stone.

Why does Cloud go to Aeris’ house and take a nap instead of informing Barret and Tifa that he’s still alive?

He's not sure how to get there, and promised to take Aeris home. Elmyra got them to stay the night in the hope that Cloud could slip out without Aeris noticing.

President Shinra is willing to destroy 1/8th of Midgar to kill Avalanche because he can’t be bothered to narrow down their location? A simple “wanted” poster is all it would take.

Standard for most games where you can wander around towns openly without being tracked down. They played it realistically in FFXIII and everyone complained.

Elena says the Turks have orders to stop AVALANCHE but they make no effort to stop you.

The Turks are very, very good at creatively misinterpreting their orders to suit their own agenda. Reno's still in the hospital, Elena is a raw recruit on literally her first day. Maybe Tseng calls them off because he thought the end result of attacking would just be Elena and Rude dead.

Cloud walks into the barracks and gets mistaken for a solider. It’s like if Bin Laden walked into the White House and the secret service said “you must be the new guy! Here’s your uniform!” Nobody has been told about AVALANCHE or what they look like. The only explanation is that Rufus doesn’t want you to get caught (why?), despite the motorcycle chase in which Shinra forces try to catch you

Everybody in the garrison is panicking because they have to perform a huge parade with a few days notice. One guy is missing, Cloud is wearing Shinra gear...it involves a few contrivances, but you can imagine reasons if you want.
Where do the other party members get their sailor/soldier disguises? How does Barret hide his gun arm? Where do their regular clothes get stashed?

Just cause we don't see that doesn't mean it's impossible that it happened.

How are Rufus and Heidegger unaware of the bloody massacre/battle with Jenova happening right under their feet?

I think they are. They leave quickly when the alarms go off, and anyone sent in to deal with it is dead, so they might have decided to leave them be.

Kind of strange how the only entrance into a theme park for rich people is through a town full of hobos. A thing like that deserves some kind of mention in the script

Who says it's the only entrance? I mean, we don't see any toilets, but the place has to have some, right?

No has been warned about AVALANCHE or told what they look like (they’re hard to miss). It seems like Rufus wants you to roam free.

See above. Also, maybe he can't admit AVALANCHE are still alive without destroying Shinra's credibility. ("Escaped from the Shinra building itself? After destroying a pillar, why weren't they held more securely. I'm not paying Mako rates if Shinra doesn't protect me better!"

Why does Rufus need to borrow the tiny Bronco from Cid when Shinra has already has an airship?

The airship isn't ready. That's in the script.

It is never clear why Cait Sith is sent to spy on you.I guess Rufus will let you to roam free as long as he can keep an eye on you.

Maybe he doesn't have the resources to spare? AVALANCHE move fast, shipping out enough resources to get rid of this isn't easy before they've moved on, and his biggest problem is Sephiroth, so they're not enough of a priority.

If Cait Sith is under Rufus' direct command here, why does it help you escape Junon whilst Reeve faces no consequences for it?

I'm pretty sure Reeve was acting alone by that point. The only person that saw him and lived was Scarlet, and she saw him for about half a second before he knocked her out.
 

lentils on lent

Lv. 25 Adventurer
Hm, seems like my memory is rusty on a couple details. In any case, adapting the story of FF7 to the remake is going to be hard work.

Here are some ideas I had

Hojo convinces Rufus to let AVALANCHE roam free. Hojo is a scientist who wants to sit back and observe how Cloud responds to the Reunion/Sephiroth's awakening, and the presence of a Cetra makes things even more intriguing. Hojo can convince Rufus that following Cloud will lead them to Sephiroth, or that Aeris will lead them to the promised land. After the reunion happens, Shinra decides to kill Avalanche in the gas chamber in Junon.

Dio is a psychotic libertarian. He allows people to carry weapons in his theme park because he believes in the right to bear arms. Only the strong survive; It is every individual's responsibility to be a manly man with big muscles and dominate others. The battle square is basically human cockfighting. The gold saucer is built on top of a prison for profit, because hey, the free market. The Corel Prison is like the hunger games. It's the ultimate test of strength and survival of the fittest, Dio's philosophy in its purest form. Dyne is the reigning champion of the prison; no one messes with him and lives for long. As champ, Dyne is free to leave the prison but he chooses to stay because it's the only place where his life has any meaning. Dyne learns of another man with a gun arm entering the park and decides to leave his calling card for Barret (i.e. a bunch of shot up people in the battle square). Barret takes the bait and chases Dyne down into the prison. You get arrested for the massacre. Dio doesn't care who did it, it's easier just to throw everyone in jail and let social Darwinism sort things out. Barret defeats Dyne and becomes the new champion, so he can leave. As for everyone else... if Cloud can win a chocobo race they can leave as well. Cloud falls off his saddle and gets dragged to the finish line, dead last. Dio has such a good laugh that he lets you go and gives you the dune buggy to boot.
 

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
Since we're looking at an episodic release now and not cutting any content that they can show, I'm REALLY hoping that we can spend a little bit more time being able to explore around Midgar -- both on the plate and off of it.

Seeing more examples of things like how the security system works on the train implemented other places, and show the slowly increased militaristic attitude of Shinra tightening around everything as AVALANCHE does what they do. Get a sense of the differences of life on the Plate and in the Slums through more exposure rather than exposition.

Aside from just the difference in quality of housing and construction, it'd be interesting showing more examples of how the Reactor bombings are a source of fear for the people on the Plate and hope for the people below in the Slums. At the same time, get a sense that the grip of the military forces is something that all of the people find frightening.

That way when you get into the Shinra HQ, you get the real sense that there's still a level of disparity between the people at the HQ and everyone else -- especially from the view of the President and others, just before we start to get into the darkness of Hojo's lab and the other goings ons. I want to be able to wander more places in the Shinra HQ -- possibly try to dig around into some of the places from Crisis Core and see if there're any breadcrumbs.




X :neo:
 

Theozilla

Kaiju Member
I wonder if while exploring the Shinra (and other areas of the game) the remake might include additional story content by they way of the Bioshock series and MGSV where the player kind find different voice recordings/journals lying about. It would particularly interesting to hear like recorded notes from Hojo, Gast, and Lucrecia.
 

Unlucky

WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN
I cri everytiem I watch the remake trailer. Still in disbelief lol (also...hai gaiz)

I have too many hopes I can't even think straight. I just want epic battles against the WEAPONs.

And my HD cross-dressing Cloud complete with a make-up/ dress- up mini game. SE better not disappoint me.
 

Unlucky

WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN
^They better not get rid of that scene. I'm afraid it's most likely going to be cut though :closedmonster:

Moar hopes:

1. Epic opening. FFVII probably had the best intro so far. Being shoved straight into the action with the amazing background music playing is one of the most unforgettable moments in the game. I'm quite optimistic they won't botch this (and they better not). I just hope they can make me relive the experience.

2. Great creature design, especially Jenova and her transformations. We never got to see her in the newer Compilation entries so I'm looking forward to that. And like I said, the WEAPONs better be Godzilla levels of intimidating. Imagine diving under the ocean with the submarine and coming face to face with Emerald, ha.
 

Random Nobody

local roach
Tifa. I hope they keep ha eyes red, signifying the demonic contract she made with shaytan to allow her to suplex skyscrapers.

Her personal sidequest can performing the exorcism that occurred between FFVII and Advent Children.
 

Channy

Bad Habit
AKA
Ruby Rose, Lucy
Tifa. I hope they keep ha eyes red, signifying the demonic contract she made with shaytan to allow her to suplex skyscrapers.

Her personal sidequest can performing the exorcism that occurred between FFVII and Advent Children.

Whatever this is, has clearly qualified for Post of the Year
 

Tennyo

Higher Further Faster
Today I was thinking about the Northern Crater reveal scene when Cloud snaps, the scene where Cloud gets his mind back in the Lifestream, and the Highwind scene. Can't wait for these scenes.

dat Highwind scene especially. :monster:

Oh and please let there be multiple dates with the ENTIRE CAST. Cid and Vincent and Nanaki dates ftw
 

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
All I can think of now is the discussion I had with my roommate last night about having Crossdressed Cloud as an unlockable costume for perfecting the Don Corneo segment, and then taking Barret out on a date while dressed as a gorgeous woman.




X :neo:
 

Unlucky

WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN
You guys are forgetting about the Honeybee Inn scenes with Mukki and the gang.

I can't wait for all the Clukki fanfics.
 
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