Hopes for Remake & Rebirth (story/content)

[Gary Caelum]

Lol given that Shinra essentially become the government, that's technically socialism rather than capitalism.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Not really.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Shinra is a "Corporate Republic."

Definitely no socialism there, bro.

You could also argue it's a plutocracy but I'm pretty sure the only super-wealthy with power in FFVII are the Shinra themselves. Everyone else are just tag-alongs or toadies to said Shinra.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Shinra controls the world's only army. If anything, they're like the Kim family in North Korea, which is socialist in name only.

 

[ChipNoir]

It's straight up colonialism. ShinRa comes, ShinRa takes over, ShinRa exploits resources.

What I find interesting is that Barret has dog tags, implying he was military at some point in his youth. That further implies that the central continent governments that must have been dissolved at some point.

 

[Kain424]

Only if the military in this world uses dog tags. And, I suppose, if they are actually Barret's tags and not something he got from someone else.

 

[Gary Caelum]

Shinra is a "Corporate Republic."

Definitely no socialism there, bro.

That is pretty much what every attempt at "State Socialism"(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_socialism) ended up as.
Of course you can just gerry-mander a definition so that all bad outcomes no longer fall under the definition, but that's just semantics really.

You could also say that falling out of a tall building isn't that dangerous because it's hitting the ground that kills you, which technically doesn't count as "falling" any more.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

But in defining something as the failed or disingenuous attempts at it, isn't your definition the one that is "gerry-mandered" (I'm not sure that you're using this term correctly either)?

Otherwise, "pile of cables and broken wood at the bottom of a cliff; often accompanied by mangled human remains" would be an acceptable definition of "flight."

 

[Gary Caelum]

But in defining something as the failed or disingenuous attempts at it,

If you'd only defined it that way after it failed, that would indeed be disingenuous. But in the case of quite a few state socialist regimes, western socialists absolutely regarded them as genuine at the time. The most recent example being Jeremy Corbyn's fairly vocal and constant support for Venezuela, right up until the moment it collapsed.
It doesn't seem unfair to say if a popular socialist leader is highly complimentary of another regime, that calls itself socialist, then that more or less fits the definition. And to bring it back to the subject at hand, the current Venezuela regime does look kinda similar to Shinra.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

In Venezuela, the state oil company didn't take over the government and then run the country into the ground. In a centrally planned socialist economy the state owns and directs the means of production. The state may become a conglomeration, but that's different from a conglomeration becoming a state.

And we need to remember that plenty of people were happy under Shinra. For many, the economy was prospering and life was good.

 

[ForceStealer]

^That's an often forgotten point. Shinra was doing lots of shady shit, and knowngly killing the Planet. But for the majority of average people, things were pretty good.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Shinra worked hard for their profits and deserved to own the entire planet's Lifestream. If one works hard, let's the free market reign and is able to provide a service for profit, why not win it all?

After all, corporations are people too, my friend.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

If you'd only defined it that way after it failed, that would indeed be disingenuous. But in the case of quite a few state socialist regimes, western socialists absolutely regarded them as genuine at the time. The most recent example being Jeremy Corbyn's fairly vocal and constant support for Venezuela, right up until the moment it collapsed.

Did it fit the dictionary and/or encyclopedic definition prior to that? That's what I would consider more relevant.

Besides, governments can change even while retaining misleading self-descriptors. Shit, look at almost any country whose official name includes "People's Republic."

It doesn't seem unfair to say if a popular socialist leader is highly complimentary of another regime, that calls itself socialist, then that more or less fits the definition.

Eh, I'm going to have to disagree. Nazi Germany called itself socialist, and many other nations accepted that at face value in discussion of them -- and if you were a "proper" German, I suppose it may have even felt like a socialist system? But by nature of its policies, it wasn't. Not even for a day.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Donald Trump is highly complimentary of Kim Jong-Il, and both the USA and North Korea call themselves republics.

 

[jazzflower92]

Donald Trump is highly complimentary of Kim Jong-Il, and both the USA and North Korea call themselves republics.

Trump despite what he and critics say can't have that power.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

What power, jazzflower?

 

[Clement Rage]

I don't think we have a word for what Shinra is. They're too authoritarian to be capitalist, but are more wearing the trappings of a corporation rather than really being one, ie. in all the board meetings we see, the word 'shareholders' has never come up.

I think Barret's dog tags may be related to coal mining, to identify him if there's a collapse or explosion.

 

[Ite]

I figured they were more libertarian on the streets, authoritarian in the sheets.

 

[ChipNoir]

I'm still gonna stick resolutely on the "Colonialist" idea, only with a company instead of a kingdom. It reminds me vividly of East India Company.

Let's take note that Midgar has a mayor...that is absolutely relegated to irrelevance so that pretty much sums up what ShinRa actually thinks of government.

With that said it does make for a nice head canon that Wedge is actually the grandson of Mayor Domino, and the Domino family are the idiot founders that allowed ShinRa to set up shop in the 7 original towns that comprised the country Midgar now basically has replaced.

It'd be nice and tragic motivation for someone seemingly pointless and irrelevant as Wedge.

 

[Tashasaurous]

I'm still gonna stick resolutely on the "Colonialist" idea, only with a company instead of a kingdom. It reminds me vividly of East India Company.

I had always thought both Rufus and Beckett had a similar personally given they were both in charge of two companies. Though given the Compilation of FFVII and such, I admired Rufus more since he intended on stopping Sephiroth rather than controlling him and he even went out of his way to survive the blast and making sure history doesn't repeat itself, whereas with Beckett, he wanted to control Davy Jones to kill pirates and pretty much innocent people who even only mentioned the word pirate to domination that he even lied to the King of England and deserved to die in the blast.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Hmm, if the Midgar area had a hereditary family of mayors before Shinra, they weren't exactly democracies, were they?

Who is Beckett? You cannot take anything in those Disney movies as being in any way a historical truth. I agree with Chip that Shinra reminds me of the East India Company: come to trade, insinuate yourself into the government in order to get the best deals, and end up running the place badly.

 

[ChipNoir]

Hmm, if the Midgar area had a hereditary family of mayors before Shinra, they weren't exactly democracies, were they?

Who is Beckett? You cannot take anything in those Disney movies as being in any way a historical truth. I agree with Chip that Shinra reminds me of the East India Company: come to trade, insinuate yourself into the government in order to get the best deals, and end up running the place badly.

I get the feeling whatever predated ShinRa would have been a bunch of small countries that operated on common wealth and very rudimentary trade. That's the only way I could see ShinRa bamboozling them all out of so much autonomy in such a short span of time. They'd probably never had anything but really simple governments based on founder legacy, and then ShinRa comes in, buys those people out, and they've taken over before anyone thinks to have a say otherwise about it.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

What's a simple government?

 

[Ite]

I imagine that Midgar is a thorough critique of American capitalism, so an elected mayor would exist basically to offer the illusion of choice while the real power lies with (ba-dum) whoever holds capital. In terms of the world before Shinra, the game is deliciously scant on info because the themes of memory and lost identity are rampant in the worldbuilding. My headcanon is that Midgar’s “seven towns” would be similar to small-scale city states, like the “ten towns” in Forgotten Realms (although iirc in the Realms the reeves are appointed by nobility, and the notion of a gentle class in FF7 seems only to appear in Wutai.)

 

[Clement Rage]

[insert stock Rufus post game post here]

The impression I get from most FF games is that every town basically fends for itself. They're all fortified, travelling is dangerous due to all the wildlife, so everywhere is mostly on its own, even if they're nominally under control of somebody.

Yet...

Wutai had a sophisticated enough war machine to keep up with Shinra for years, enough people were buying coal to keep Corel running, complete with railroad. Cosmo Canyon has complex machinery.