Gary Caelum
Pro Adventurer
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- Gary Caelum
I'm more excited for the snowboarding tbh. That was surprisingly fun and also did a great job of making it feel like you were alone in the wilderness.
Hopes for Remake & Rebirth (story/content)
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Ite
Save your valediction (she/her)
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- Ite
What, penguins don’t count?
The silent moments after you crash where you slowly kick yourself back off, with no sound but the wind. I agree it seems like such a wonderfully lonely experience. Yes it’s fun and SUPAH-90s-X-TREEM but it’s also right after you’ve lost Aeris and there’s something mournful about the experience as well. I hope they don’t add music to it.
I actually hope they remove the balloons from the non-arcade version. They were always like lulwhut?
Gary Caelum
Pro Adventurer
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- Gary Caelum
Actually, what am I saying? My most anticipated is the Fort Condor RTS. That could be made really good if they tweak it a bit and add some more complexity to it.
Kain424
Old Man in the Room
Oh, man. Fort Condor. They could really fix that up. I actually liked playing it in the original.
With a few tweaks, the snowboarding and submarine minigames could be fantastic. And one of the things I really enjoyed about FFXV was its chocobo riding. I hope they incorporate that level of fun to the racing. There's also an opportunity for Square to redeem themselves in the shooter game category with the roller coaster shooter (although maybe they should replace that altogether).
One thing that would be fun is if, when you beat the game, you could come back to the Gold Saucer and play the Playstation original in the arcade.
With a few tweaks, the snowboarding and submarine minigames could be fantastic. And one of the things I really enjoyed about FFXV was its chocobo riding. I hope they incorporate that level of fun to the racing. There's also an opportunity for Square to redeem themselves in the shooter game category with the roller coaster shooter (although maybe they should replace that altogether).
One thing that would be fun is if, when you beat the game, you could come back to the Gold Saucer and play the Playstation original in the arcade.
Claymore
3x3 Eyes
Now this I can get behind.
hian
Purist
Wholly irrelevant to my point.
My point is that within the context of a more realistic FFVII, if indeed that is what they're going for (I am not saying that I want that, I am saying I wouldn't be surprised if that is what they do), some of those creatures and elements will be easier to implement, as is, than others.
Chocobos have been rendered in a realistic looking styles for ages, and is easy to render realistically because guess the fetch what? Both the birds the creature is based on have clear fetching reference points in the real world.
Whether moogles exist in other FF games is totally irrelevant to this point.
The only thing that matters here is if the designers of the FFVII Remake, whom may I remind you are bringing on fetching bug experts etc. to consult on the fauna of the frickin game, decide Caith Sith's original design mesh well with the look and gameplay of the remake or not.
After all, it's one thing to have a giant plush robot around if the only time you see it in motion is in turn based battles and story sequences where it walks out of Cloud to stand around and talk. It's something very different to have that moving around in the shots as you're climbing natural environments, jumping over divides etc. or during dramatic moments that aren't rendered in neon-colors with lego-block characters.
That's because clearly you didn't understand the point of my post.
I was not arguing for them taking this in a realistic direction - I was saying, based on the trailers, I have less trouble imagining a lot of that stuff being radically changed, or cut, than it being retained in a way that is faithful to the original.
The idea that the compilation titles are even remotely close to the original in style however, is something I find to be patently obsurd. But, short of doing a blow by blow breakdown of how just extremely ludicrous that perspective it, which I have neither patience nor time for, let's just settle for "I disagree".
Eh no. FF Versus 13 was were the "A fantasy based on reality" set-up came from. This was a conception of Nomura, the director of FFVII Remake, who has since in interviews stressed over and over again that they're going for a higher level of realism with the remake.
Yes, they have said they want to "capture the spirit of the original". However, what does that even really mean? Especially when you take into account they say they're doing rewrites, that the remake is not in continuity with the previous works, that they might not even start the game with the bombing mission, that they're going for hightened realism, when they're changing the combat system, when the entire aesthetic of the game (which they're on record saying was conceived to look like an anime) has changed, and so on and so on.
Here's the thing - I want a more traditional remake. I have no issue with Caith SIth being in it as is, as long as the game manages to stay tonally consistent with itself, and draws clear distinctions between when it's going for one thing, and when it's going for another (unlike the horribly tone-deaf and horrendously directed trash that is the compilation entries). All I am saying is that I am strapping in and prepping for something else so I don't get disappoined and I can totally see and understand if they're going for the "AAA Christiopher Nolan"-version of FFVII.
I don't think CC lacks silliness. It has silliness. I do however vehemently disagree that is has more than the original - or even comes close in nature of what is being portrayed. That's just absurd imo.
For every moment you can mention that is silly in CC, I will gladly find you 5 from the original game.
It's besides the point though. My biggest gripe with CC isn't that it doesn't have silliness, it's that 1.) when it isn't silly it is loaded down with terribly written and directed melodrama, and 2.) when it is silly, it is so poorly timed and tone-deaf that it damages the overall presentation rather than enhance it.
CC IMO is an absolutely atrocious game.
All of which have been given more realistic redesigns mind you. The biggest reason I am having trouble envisioning Caith Sith is because it's a fat moogle that's supposed to be constantly lugging around after you in your party.
It's not a one-off encounter, or a funny animal you find in the wild. It's literally a thing that's going to be present constantly in the background of tons of shots that are otherwise going to look down to earth and realistic given the new aesthetic.
If the cat portion hides the moogle away someplace during transit as it were, I could see it working, but as is? In the aesthetic of the trailers we've seen so far? I am just having trouble imaging it that's all. I am also having trouble imagining hell-house, and the bikini clad enemies as well. It's not limited to Caith Sith at all. It applies to all of FFVII's silly things.
Which is a fantasy they've said they're trying to portray with more realism. Seems like a valid concern to me.
I think they design for one thing. The biggest problem isn't just that it's goofy, it's that it's big and unwieldly.
As for why one might be tempted to get rid of one but not the other -
Are you fimilar with compound effects?
If I wear a silly hat, that's one thing. If I wear a silly hat and yellow spandex, that's another. If I wear both of those and huge red clown shoes, that's something else entirely again.
It's possible to hold that we're willing to accept the hat, or the shoes, or the yellow spandex on their own without having to marry acceptance to the set as a whole.
Those two things don't seem connected to me at all.
Firstly, I don't really think Cloud ever really had a dorky personally. I think people have taken that quote, and their fuzzy memories of Cloud way too far.
I take the interview to mean that they don't plan to have him moping a la AC all the time. There's a pretty huge leap from that to "therefore we can assume most if not all the crazy shit from the original will make it in".
Cloud not being mopey is not at all a ringing endorsment of future inclution of all the weird stuff in FFVII unless you work from the presupposition that all serious media only has mopey characters. Since that's not the case, all we can derive from that tidbit is that Cloud is not going to be moping all the time.
I think at the end of the day, we're just going to have to wait and see a trailer before we really know what kind of a tone the remake is going for. All we have is literally just the first hour of the original game summed up into 4 minutes or less. Although frankly I still stand by the fact that they decided to keep a character as cartoonish as Wedge around is something of a hint that they don't mind the odd left turn.
At anyrate, there are ways to make Cait work. It's a robot you first meet at Gold Saucer. It's perfectly at home there. The only thing that changes from that point is that it leaves it's "Native" environment. Fish out of water is not an uncommon trope to work with, and people have suspended their disbelief for more.
I also think they've pushed the idea of "Image Loyalty" pretty strongly in what little interview and submarketing they've done so far. Heck, Cait Sith even made it into Dissidia Duodecim, the first non-humanoid character that I'm aware of out of the small handful that exist.
At anyrate, there are ways to make Cait work. It's a robot you first meet at Gold Saucer. It's perfectly at home there. The only thing that changes from that point is that it leaves it's "Native" environment. Fish out of water is not an uncommon trope to work with, and people have suspended their disbelief for more.
I also think they've pushed the idea of "Image Loyalty" pretty strongly in what little interview and submarketing they've done so far. Heck, Cait Sith even made it into Dissidia Duodecim, the first non-humanoid character that I'm aware of out of the small handful that exist.
hian
Purist
I agree completely.
The only thing I think is somewhat of a non-point is Cait Sith's pressence in the Dissidia mobile game. After all, that game clearly isn't going for a realistic aesthetic.
I was speaking of non-humanoids. Shantotto is still basically human shaped. I'm refering to characters like Cait Sith, Red XIII, and...*Thinks* Actually that's kinda it.
Realistic or not, it carries the same canon as the rest of the Dissidia games, and the same sense of importance to the branding. It means that they obviously feel Cait Sith is important enough to the Final Fantasy brand to be included.
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
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- TresDias
Well, maybe they bring in marshmallow bear experts or something for the moogle.
They've also got the cat aspect of the character to think about, and the lion-wolf that is Red XIII.
I must have forgotten this comment about the bombing mission. That they would even considering changing that doesn't bode well for capturing the spirit of the original, in my mind anyway.hian said:
We're definitely in agreement on this.hian said:
Well, that's why I bring up the cat and Red XIII. What's one more furry critter in those shots?hian said:
Just make it shaggy looking or something. Take the design sensibilities applied to FFVIII's Minimog and crank it up another notch.
I guess there's the rub then. I'm not having trouble with it.hian said:
If the moogle mount is really a clown shoe too far for anyone who can otherwise handle Red XIII and the cat with a megaphone, then I feel the problem lies with them rather than the game aesthetic.hian said:
With another director, probably not. Nomura seems to largely work with a one-tracked tone in mind, though, so if he's trying to get this right, I want to be optimistic about this much at least.hian said:
There's absolutely no reason for anyone to have fuzzy memories of Cloud. Footage of the entire game is readily available at your fingertips, and both fan-compiled and official transcriptions of the game script have been available for literal decades.hian said:
hian
Purist
That's the thing though, it's not just "one more furry critter". I think that's a false equivalence given Nanaki's more serious tone of design.
Nanaki does not look silly. Cait Sith does.
I don't think this is a genuine take on what I was saying either, because again, I don't think the cat and Nanaki are in any way equivalent to the giant mog and I've already explained why.
Neither of those character draw near as much attention in the way that mog does in shots, nor do they seem nearly as out of place tonally.
Nanaki is just a fantasy canine, and the cat, well it's just a stylized cat.
Mog is a giant, fat plush animal robot with a cutesy anime-style face.
Nanaki doesn't intrude tonally because he was designed to look like a serious creature. The cat not so much, but at least it is small and can be tucked out of the way when inconvenient. Mog cannot, unless again, the opt to have the mog be some kind of thing the cat summons as a weapon only in battles or something.
I totally agree with this, which is why, conversely to you, I am worried. Nomura is the one droning on about realism.
That's besides the point. As a person who plays the game annually and have since it was first released that would perhaps be true for me. It is not however true, I would wager, for most people.
When people describe Cloud as "dorky" what I generally see offered as evidence for this are one-off lines like "Let's mosey", the fact that he suffers from motion sickness and the wallmarket scene.
This doesn't really hold up at all when you consider the totality of the character and how he generally acts in the vast majority of scenes where he doesn't dress up as a woman, isn't impeeded by motion sickness and doesn't throw out corny lines.
If your (and I mean generally here, not yours in specific) analysis of a character boils down to a handful of handpicked examples that you drill down on at the exclusion of pretty much everyone else to say that a character is well/best described by an adjective like "dorky", I am unsure what else to think of that as except as an outgrowth of fuzzy memories.
It seems a more charitable hypothesis than the alternatives
I very much doubt the people who say this go and play the game or read the scipts before they make that judgement just to be sure.
Random Nobody
local roach
hian said:
cold_spirit
he/him
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- Alex T
I say "fetch" all the time because of Mike from Dark Pixel Gaming.
Kain424
Old Man in the Room
Hian, I see what you're saying. And it's actually odd even in the original game. No one really makes reference to what exactly Cait Sith even is. Do they know all along he is a fake stuffed robot thing? I suppose all they really need to do is set up his design as a variation on something that already exists. Like, fine, the mog/moogle/whatever is some kind of robot ostensibly being controlled by that cat (which is controlled by Reeve somehow). But why does no one question the talking cat? Are they numb to it because of Nanaki's introduction as a verbose beast?
Gary Caelum
Pro Adventurer
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- Gary Caelum
Damn I think I was the one I started talking about Cait Sith. I take it back. Ctrl+Z
Cait Sith
Hey you!! What're you lookin' so down for!?
How 'bout it? Want me to read your fortune!? A bright future! A happy future!
Oh, but don't hold it against me if it's not a great prediction!
Oh, so sorry! I'm a fortune telling machine. The name's...
Cait Sith.
Cait obviously states itself as a sentient robot that works for the Gold Saucer. Since advance AI is common enough that half the enemy population is robotic enemies, Cait isn't really that weird. A little weirder that for once something mechanical doesn't want to kill you but...Yeah.
Roger
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- Minato
I dunno if I agree with that, Shinra abruptly pulled the world out of the Dark Ages less than 50 years ago. Discarded machines going haywire in the wild, robots being repurposed for private ends is one thing, a brand new state of the art custom made AI being developed anywhere other then Shinra (as indeed, it clearly was), isn't really a possiblity I think was sufficiently established in this world.
I've always suspected Dio and ShinRa are business partners.
I don't quite follow...
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