Hopes for Remake & Rebirth (story/content)

[ChipNoir]

Wh-what?

 

[a_apple]

...It evolved into Thelifestream.net when the original webhostess lost her shit and deleted it all in a fit, to be honest

But that's neither here nor there.

Still remember adventchildren.net, good times

 

[ForceStealer]

 

[Clement Rage]

"Yo Rude. Wanna recap the state of the world and the company we both work at for no reason?"

 

[ForceStealer]

Yes, because the original game never dabbled in clunky exposition

 

[Gary Caelum]

One thing I never figured out in the original story is how Cloud managed to overpower Sephiroth and "kill him" in the Nibelheim reactor.

Wasn't the whole point that Cloud had failed to become a member of Soldier because he just wasn't good enough?

 

[Tashasaurous]

Maybe it's not the case of he wasn't good enough at all. Maybe ShinRa lied to him at some point during training because they knew how strong he was, but if one payed attention to how even Cloud had no idea what was going on with himself in Before Crisis during the Original AVALANCHE's attack of his strength, the instructors or whatever felt that if he couldn't control his strength without knowing how even he could do it he was potentially far too dangerous and that's why they failed him but didn't say that in fear that he could out-power Sephiroth.

If that makes sense. It's just my theory.

 

[ForceStealer]

He didn't make SOLDIER due weak confidence/sense of self. The Jenova cells would have dominated his will, just like they wound up doing. It didn't have anything to do with his physical capability, given that he got into a lot of fights as a kid, and the fact that he apparently could handle the Buster Sword pretty well even before being enhanced.

As for overpowering Sephiroth, that seemed more a matter of....limit breakiness, I imagine

 

[Gary Caelum]

Lol that would be the worst Limit Break ever invented. It only activates after you've been impaled.

He HAD received Jenova cells before that point then, yes? Do they get them at the point they apply for Soldier or something? I can't remember these details at all.

 

[Clement Rage]

He didn't overpower him, he backstabbed him and got in a lucky break because Sephy was expecting less resistance from someone that was impaled at the time. Gameplay mechanic wise, every limit relies on taking damage.

Re exposition, sure it did. Those weren't good either.

 

[ForceStealer]

He HAD received Jenova cells before that point then, yes? Do they get them at the point they apply for Soldier or something? I can't remember these details at all.

No, he was just a regular trooper. Only SOLDIER members were injected with Jenova cells (until Hojo injected them into all of the NIbelheim survivors, specifically to cause the reaction for which Cloud was denied)

 

[Gary Caelum]

He didn't overpower him, he backstabbed him and got in a lucky break because Sephy was expecting less resistance from someone that was impaled at the time. Gameplay mechanic wise, every limit relies on taking damage.

He picked him up off the floor using the sword that was impaling him, and then threw him across the room. That definitely counts as overpowering in my books.

No, he was just a regular trooper. Only SOLDIER members were injected with Jenova cells (until Hojo injected them into all of the NIbelheim survivors, specifically to cause the reaction for which Cloud was denied)

That's what I'd originally thought. But I was thinking the Jenova cells were necessary to explain how he managed to get that extreme strength.

Because if he was capable of that kind of strength anyway, does that mean by the time ff7 starts, Cloud is basically a superhuman because he's also had Jenova cells?

 

[ForceStealer]

I've always kinda attributed Jenova cells to making you hard to kill, more than super strength, per se. But they've never specifically outlined what Jenova provided and what the Mako shower provided.

But the idea of limit breaks, incredible feats when under extreme duress, is basically what happened in the reactor. And Sephiroth was already badly wounded at that point.

 

[Gary Caelum]

Being wounded doesn't change his body mass though. If Cloud could pick him up off the floor when wounded, he could necessarily do the same when not-wounded.

 

[looneymoon]

@Chip The owner of the original AdventChildren.Net was an obsessive Sephiroth fangirl who claimed that she was married to him on the astral plain. When her interest in FF7 waned after the film's release, she redirected her obsession towards Cloverfield of all things.

I am sure the details are somewhere here. I think she has an Encyclopedia Dramatica article as well, but I don't particularly want to be looking for that on my work computer.

I believe part of TLS' mission was to distance itself from the crazy of AC.Net but I REMEMBER

 

[ChipNoir]

Let's also remember that at the time Cloud wasn't even fully grown. He was a mere 16 year old.

 

[Ryuman]

My impression of Cloud is that he joined Shinra but lacked the confidence or any stand-out qualities to be considered for SOLDIER, yet had great latent ability.

 

[pxp]

One thing I never figured out in the original story is how Cloud managed to overpower Sephiroth and "kill him" in the Nibelheim reactor.

Wasn't the whole point that Cloud had failed to become a member of Soldier because he just wasn't good enough?

I actually thought the leitmotif was the direct opposite. Cloud WAS good enough all along, he just didn’t know it and hence his failure was kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

That’s why the reveal of his true identity is so emotional and powerful. He’s been trying to suppress himself for so long out of shame and regret, and in the end he was more than good enough all along - in fact he was unprecedentedly strong. I feel this revelation gives him renewed impetus to finish the job.

 

[Gary Caelum]

That's probably the best explanation for it. Although it's slightly implausible that someone that strong would fail so badly due to lack of confidence (because positive performance is what generally makes people confident). But that's within the bounds of suspension of disbelief for a fantasy story.

@Chip The owner of the original AdventChildren.Net was an obsessive Sephiroth fangirl who claimed that she was married to him on the astral plain.

My brain threw an exception trying to process this sentence.

 

[pxp]

That's probably the best explanation for it. Although it's slightly implausible that someone that strong would fail so badly due to lack of confidence (because positive performance is what generally makes people confident). But that's within the bounds of suspension of disbelief for a fantasy story.



My brain threw an exception trying to process this sentence.

Aye suspension of disbelief is a given in this case. But on top of that you have to acknowledge that Cloud is extremely “triggered” in this scenario too, given the massacre and burning of his hometown/the life-threatening injury of his childhood crush or sweetheart, and his own wounds, all at the hands of the hero he looked up to throughout his adolescent life. Sometimes people find something in themselves that lies dormant when staring death in the eyes, that will to live at all costs or what have you, as is sometimes said.

 

[ForceStealer]

I'm physically built like someone in SOLDIER.
Hojo's plan to clone Sephiroth wasn't that difficult.
It was just the same procedure they use when creating members of SOLDIER.
You see, someone in SOLDIER isn't simply exposed to Mako energy.
Their bodies are actually injected with Jenova cells......
For better or worse, only the strong can enter SOLDIER.
It has nothing to do with the Jenova Reunion.
But weak people...... like me, get lost in the whole thing.
The combination of Jenova cells, Sephiroth's strong will, and my own weakness are what created me.

As Cloud explains, he didn't fail to make SOLDIER due to a lack of physical ability, as obviously the procedure made him every bit as strong as one. It was a lack of mental strength, because without it, Jenova's cells will dominate your mind, and you'll wind up like the black-cloaked clones.

 

[Gary Caelum]

Wheres that from?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Cloud's debriefing after he returns from the Lifestream.

 

[Roger]

He picked him up off the floor using the sword that was impaling him, and then threw him across the room. That definitely counts as overpowering in my books.




That's what I'd originally thought. But I was thinking the Jenova cells were necessary to explain how he managed to get that extreme strength.

Because if he was capable of that kind of strength anyway, does that mean by the time ff7 starts, Cloud is basically a superhuman because he's also had Jenova cells?

Being wounded doesn't change his body mass though. If Cloud could pick him up off the floor when wounded, he could necessarily do the same when not-wounded.

Let's also remember that at the time Cloud wasn't even fully grown. He was a mere 16 year old.

Yuffie is a perfectly normal human sixteen year old girl when she does everything she does in her own Limit Breaks. And hers get pretty crazy. Sephiroth was wounded enough to not react as quickly as he should've from the earlier sneak attack.

 

[Gary Caelum]

Lol, "perfectly normal"