Hopes for Remake & Rebirth (story/content)
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NewQuixote
Lv. 1 Adventurer
I do hope, most of all, that we will get the same pacing as the original. There was something really unique about how the story unfolded itself. We begin in Midgar with Shinra as the primary enemy with a foreshadowing of Sephiroth here and there. Then the focus shifts from a political to a more personal story post-Shinra HQ. This shift is accompanied by the opening up of the world to the player. After the death of Aeris the story becomes more sublime, focusing on the approach of meteor and the end of the world. So I guess what i'm really looking forward to is how they handle and balance the political, personal, and sublime elements of the story, which I found to be one of the strongest aspects of the original. There was alot going on at once, but they pulled it off really well, hope to see something similar achieved in the Remake.
clowd
Pro Adventurer
^
Great Pacing is one of the reasons the original is replayable, especially for a RPG. There always seemed to be some cool, fun story element right around the corner that kept you going.
If they do go open world they have to be sure it doesnt affect the pacing that much. If it takes too long to get to the next part in the story, players may become disengaged. Ideally getting to the next town/story element should take about the same time as it did in the original game, but theres always the option to go off the beaten path and spend some time exploring or leveling up.
Again I think its important we get FFVIII style car rentals, so traveling is as fast or as slow as you want it to be.
Great Pacing is one of the reasons the original is replayable, especially for a RPG. There always seemed to be some cool, fun story element right around the corner that kept you going.
If they do go open world they have to be sure it doesnt affect the pacing that much. If it takes too long to get to the next part in the story, players may become disengaged. Ideally getting to the next town/story element should take about the same time as it did in the original game, but theres always the option to go off the beaten path and spend some time exploring or leveling up.
Again I think its important we get FFVIII style car rentals, so traveling is as fast or as slow as you want it to be.
Strangelove
AI Researcher
- AKA
- hitoshura
please include the cat house, it is my favourite place
Kionae
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Desha
I'm laughing so hard at that image, I think I may have died. You've killed me. Thanks for that.
Flare
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Flare
Mukki and Bubby in HD
They strip off his dress, and then... realize he's a man.
This picture is hilarious, thank you for making me smile when I have a headache. XD
Random Nobody
local roach
I think the only specific storyline hope I have is that I hope they do not involve Genesis in this game in any way. Please keep him awf my screen @god.
Besides that, I'm really just hoping they take advantage of this massively updated engine to maximise the tone. Just in general, I think that too few video games do. And by "maximise tone," I just mean that they reinforce what we are told in the narrative with what we are actually shown on the screen. The only instance of a remake I can immediately think of that improved on its predecessor in this regard (or rather, seems like it will) is Mirror's Edge: Catalyst.
In FFVII's case, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that what allows it to hold up after all these years--besides pacing--is its tone. There are a lot of tonal shifts throughout the game, but I'm replaying it right now and I'm actually floored by how many scenes that I previously blew through that have become legitimately horrifying. I mean, psychosis, confusion, a loss of identity, and being generally adrift without direction are very adult fears (especially if you want to scare people in their 20's-30's), but besides that, the scenes where Cloud has his drooling psychotic breaks, and the others where he's suffering from hallucinations, are truly disturbing. Being forced to watch the person you love slip into a vegetative coma is disturbing. The idea of losing your mental faculties to such a degree that you almost murder a loved one is very disturbing. AVALANCHE is disturbing. Midgar is disturbing. The concept of having millions of the dead's memories and emotions rushing through you at once (such that they displace and destroy your own) is just fucking terrifying. The scene where you escape from the Shin-Ra cell to find mangled corpses strewn about like confetti and blood festively splashed all over the walls is something out of a nightmare. And I never fully appreciated how devastating and violent the early deaths are (for real, Wedge is tossed from a height and smashes into smithereens), or just how damn sinister and tragic the casual, even whimsical, massacre of the thousands of people in Sector 7 actually is. It's also one of the reasons that I honestly find it reprehensible that Square's recharacterised Reno as a lovable bumbler who cares about the wellbeing of children when he's no doubt killed hundreds of them.
EDIT: I also hope they make Shin-Ra in general less stupid evil. I mean, mako extraction is obviously detrimental to the planet, there is a bigass death crater around the capital city and miles and miles of wasteland beyond it, every time a mako reactor touches a forest it dies, monsters are sprouting up everywhere, and the earf itself is rising up to murk they ass for more or less ruining everything. Like, why is this a point of contention. I mean, I don't mind kyahaha and gyahaha, but it'd be nice to have a character or two who is unshakably loyal to the company, isn't completely immoral, and truly believes they're actually improving people's lives and has this goal as a primary motivation.
Crisis Core tried, but it really got drowned out by the sound of four idiots shouting "hero" for, like, twenty-five hours. I just really want to see first-hand what kind of propaganda machine it is that's powerful enough to pull people like Zack to the wrong side of an imperialist war of aggression.
Besides that, I'm really just hoping they take advantage of this massively updated engine to maximise the tone. Just in general, I think that too few video games do. And by "maximise tone," I just mean that they reinforce what we are told in the narrative with what we are actually shown on the screen. The only instance of a remake I can immediately think of that improved on its predecessor in this regard (or rather, seems like it will) is Mirror's Edge: Catalyst.
In FFVII's case, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that what allows it to hold up after all these years--besides pacing--is its tone. There are a lot of tonal shifts throughout the game, but I'm replaying it right now and I'm actually floored by how many scenes that I previously blew through that have become legitimately horrifying. I mean, psychosis, confusion, a loss of identity, and being generally adrift without direction are very adult fears (especially if you want to scare people in their 20's-30's), but besides that, the scenes where Cloud has his drooling psychotic breaks, and the others where he's suffering from hallucinations, are truly disturbing. Being forced to watch the person you love slip into a vegetative coma is disturbing. The idea of losing your mental faculties to such a degree that you almost murder a loved one is very disturbing. AVALANCHE is disturbing. Midgar is disturbing. The concept of having millions of the dead's memories and emotions rushing through you at once (such that they displace and destroy your own) is just fucking terrifying. The scene where you escape from the Shin-Ra cell to find mangled corpses strewn about like confetti and blood festively splashed all over the walls is something out of a nightmare. And I never fully appreciated how devastating and violent the early deaths are (for real, Wedge is tossed from a height and smashes into smithereens), or just how damn sinister and tragic the casual, even whimsical, massacre of the thousands of people in Sector 7 actually is. It's also one of the reasons that I honestly find it reprehensible that Square's recharacterised Reno as a lovable bumbler who cares about the wellbeing of children when he's no doubt killed hundreds of them.
For that matter, there's an understated element of horror that is a constant undercurrent built right into the universe. Besides the overt ones like being forced to question your own sanity (in Tifa's case) or actually being psychologically compromised (in Cloud's), or how ominous/malicious building a facsimile town with facsimile people is, the very premise of a single corporation that undisputedly rules an entire planet and controls every aspect of daily life (down to if you die that day) is inherently petrifying. Even just environmentally. People living amongst clouds of toxic pollution and whatever is dropped from above, by necessity re-purposing decrepit buses for homes and creating tools from scrap metal and refuse, is all very significant (and sufficiently depressing).
I'd like to see that significance being reinforced aesthetically. The slums are described as a world without rain and "without night or day," so why not have slum dwellers dressed drastically differently from their plate counterparts. Have them wear lights attached to their clothing--which are themselves patched together from rags--as both a sartorial statement and a practicality. Maybe you can't get past some areas without wearing the equivalent of a hazmat suit, and maybe certain sectors are unnavigable without night vision implements. Perhaps the people themselves should look paler than normal, and vaguely ghastly. Give me scenes where NPCs stress the scarcity of water, or background dialogue about the crime and suicide rates. Let me walk past (or even explore) synthetic sun rooms that the denizens have found necessary for their mental health. Moreover, the game is a cyberpunk dystopia (Midgar in that new trailer honestly recalls Blade Runner), so make it look one. We know and are told that Shin-Ra are manipulators of politics and media (which they control completely), and are actively trying to root out resistance, so why not illustrate how oppressive of an environment the slums are by adding not only the paramilitary occupation, but obvious signs of constant mass surveillance and ubiquitous screens looping nonstop propoganda. Because Shin-Ra certainly has the technology and wherewithal to do so.
Likewise, I'd love it if the protagonists' savagery were rightfully counterpointed with Shin-Ra's. I mean, of all FF games, VII probably has the most adult themes, and when you think of it, like 99% of the named characters in the game arealmost wholly unsympathetic. The only reason they have any appeal at all is because your perspective is occluded to theirs alone. It's very likely that both Shin-Ra and AVALANCHE are villains in the eyes of much of the rest of the population at large (which one NPC actually implies). AVALANCHE for their part are not only destroying property, but also murdering innocent people, ending lives and livelihoods, and, by virtue of corporate entanglement, depriving people of food, water, shelter, and medical care. They offer no alternative social organisation, they are never shown providing supplies or aid to the people on whose behalf they claim to be fighting, and their methods and goals are entirely focused on anarchy, violence, and destruction. By any practical analysis, they really are trying to bring about the end of the world or at least civilisation. And when it's weighted this way, it really lends credence to the characters' own assertions that their motivations were selfish and vengeful rather than genuinely moral or ideological.
Beyond that, making Midgar sufficiently awful can further reinforce the narrative beyond world building. Because Cloud starts off the game swearing that he doesn't care about the Planet or saving it, and even if that's just his asshole personality talking, the player themselves is equally uninvested in such heroics because they have no reason not to be. So whether the game is organised into a open/world map or just hubs, I'm hoping that there are major points of contrast between Aerith's house and the slums, and Midgar and its wasteland environs and under the sea/the more verdant/pristine locales in the game. FFVII is almost explicitly environmentalist (until they introduced oil in AC/C lmfao), so if there's an overworld, I hope it's as breathtaking and explorable as feasible and that the game actually shows the characters being suitably awed when escaping Midgar or arriving at Cosmo Canyon, especially if it's one of the ones who've ostensibly never much travelled before. In that way, you could increase immersion because both the protagonists and player can justifiably (and simultaneously) evolve from apathy to truly wanting to "save" something as large and as abstract as a planet.
I mean, just in general, the strongest, most resonant aspects of FFVII are the things that are dealt with in passing or only manifest by implication. Like, Jenova is evil and all, but to me the most convincing argument for fighting it, is that what's most worth saving are the people inhabiting the planet, that regardless of what you have seen, they do deserve the opportunity to live. And the most frightening aspect of Shin-Ra isn't that they spend their free time creating super soldiers and beasts, and dabbling in mutation and genetic experimentation. I feel like, thematically, all of that is fluff, or window dressing. It actually might be the least interesting part of the narrative. I'd much rather have a game that emphasises that Shin-Ra is most horrifying not for constructing some terrible monster, but for constructing a society in which a child can grow up deprived of light.
I'd like to see that significance being reinforced aesthetically. The slums are described as a world without rain and "without night or day," so why not have slum dwellers dressed drastically differently from their plate counterparts. Have them wear lights attached to their clothing--which are themselves patched together from rags--as both a sartorial statement and a practicality. Maybe you can't get past some areas without wearing the equivalent of a hazmat suit, and maybe certain sectors are unnavigable without night vision implements. Perhaps the people themselves should look paler than normal, and vaguely ghastly. Give me scenes where NPCs stress the scarcity of water, or background dialogue about the crime and suicide rates. Let me walk past (or even explore) synthetic sun rooms that the denizens have found necessary for their mental health. Moreover, the game is a cyberpunk dystopia (Midgar in that new trailer honestly recalls Blade Runner), so make it look one. We know and are told that Shin-Ra are manipulators of politics and media (which they control completely), and are actively trying to root out resistance, so why not illustrate how oppressive of an environment the slums are by adding not only the paramilitary occupation, but obvious signs of constant mass surveillance and ubiquitous screens looping nonstop propoganda. Because Shin-Ra certainly has the technology and wherewithal to do so.
Likewise, I'd love it if the protagonists' savagery were rightfully counterpointed with Shin-Ra's. I mean, of all FF games, VII probably has the most adult themes, and when you think of it, like 99% of the named characters in the game are
Beyond that, making Midgar sufficiently awful can further reinforce the narrative beyond world building. Because Cloud starts off the game swearing that he doesn't care about the Planet or saving it, and even if that's just his asshole personality talking, the player themselves is equally uninvested in such heroics because they have no reason not to be. So whether the game is organised into a open/world map or just hubs, I'm hoping that there are major points of contrast between Aerith's house and the slums, and Midgar and its wasteland environs and under the sea/the more verdant/pristine locales in the game. FFVII is almost explicitly environmentalist (until they introduced oil in AC/C lmfao), so if there's an overworld, I hope it's as breathtaking and explorable as feasible and that the game actually shows the characters being suitably awed when escaping Midgar or arriving at Cosmo Canyon, especially if it's one of the ones who've ostensibly never much travelled before. In that way, you could increase immersion because both the protagonists and player can justifiably (and simultaneously) evolve from apathy to truly wanting to "save" something as large and as abstract as a planet.
I mean, just in general, the strongest, most resonant aspects of FFVII are the things that are dealt with in passing or only manifest by implication. Like, Jenova is evil and all, but to me the most convincing argument for fighting it, is that what's most worth saving are the people inhabiting the planet, that regardless of what you have seen, they do deserve the opportunity to live. And the most frightening aspect of Shin-Ra isn't that they spend their free time creating super soldiers and beasts, and dabbling in mutation and genetic experimentation. I feel like, thematically, all of that is fluff, or window dressing. It actually might be the least interesting part of the narrative. I'd much rather have a game that emphasises that Shin-Ra is most horrifying not for constructing some terrible monster, but for constructing a society in which a child can grow up deprived of light.
EDIT: I also hope they make Shin-Ra in general less stupid evil. I mean, mako extraction is obviously detrimental to the planet, there is a bigass death crater around the capital city and miles and miles of wasteland beyond it, every time a mako reactor touches a forest it dies, monsters are sprouting up everywhere, and the earf itself is rising up to murk they ass for more or less ruining everything. Like, why is this a point of contention. I mean, I don't mind kyahaha and gyahaha, but it'd be nice to have a character or two who is unshakably loyal to the company, isn't completely immoral, and truly believes they're actually improving people's lives and has this goal as a primary motivation.
Crisis Core tried, but it really got drowned out by the sound of four idiots shouting "hero" for, like, twenty-five hours. I just really want to see first-hand what kind of propaganda machine it is that's powerful enough to pull people like Zack to the wrong side of an imperialist war of aggression.
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Random Nobody
local roach
BUT WAIT.
I lied. There is absolutely one thing that they must remove at all costs, if nothing else.
I BE LIKE
EVERY FUCCIN TIME.
NikolaiBroketheZoom
Neophyte
^ OH MY GOD.
Like when you go back in the Seventh Heaven and I vaguely remember her mixing drinks? Like Tifa. Excuse me Tifa. You can pay people to do that.
Like when you go back in the Seventh Heaven and I vaguely remember her mixing drinks? Like Tifa. Excuse me Tifa. You can pay people to do that.
leadmyskeptic
Pro Adventurer
Totally. I think it's one of the key reasons FF7 sticks out from the pack of other FF's with strong stories (especially its Playstation peers, although FF8's opening section successfully rips it off a bit by transitioning from "school life" game to world-saving). The pacing and gradual unfolding of a completely different story tone and goal is also something that's easy to overlook as "it's just the game"...every good story's going to build up as it goes along. But when you take a second to think about Terrorists-versus-Shinra transitioning to Ragtag-heroes-versus-Sephiroth transitioning to Friends-trying-to-help-increasingly-deranged-Cloud to holy-shit-a-timed-apocalypse-is-upon-the-planet...Let alone the fact that in stopping that apocalypse with Holy, they may end up destroying humanity anyway, and it would be a good thing...it's pretty mind-blowing!
Kionae
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Desha
BUT WAIT.
I lied. There is absolutely one thing that they must remove at all costs, if nothing else.
I BE LIKE
EVERY FUCCIN TIME.
she is four
Little brat's gotta earn her keep somehow. You know what it cost to raise a kid these days?
leadmyskeptic
Pro Adventurer
Alot more to comment on this post as well (good post, buddy!) but I've been thinking alot about these "heavy as a brick" elements myself, and it's something I'm worried they might not maintain. I don't even care if they 'expound' upon them, so long as they represent it at least equal to how it was in the original. The Compilation seems to have forgotten these elements from the FF7 cocktail, like making a Martini without Vermouth. Crisis Core certainly kept everything cutesy, but that was acceptable because it was about Zack, who's a cutesy version of Cloud to begin with. Advent Children had moping, but still none of that cinematic, Blade Runner or David Lynch-ian esque gritty darkness. Actually, thinking about it now, that's how I'd describe the dark, psychological, horror-esque moments of FF7 that are missing in all other incarnations...as a video game version of a David Lynch film. Of course these things are balanced with events like racing a Chocobo through a magical rainbow world, but they're still key.
trash panda
---m(O.O)gle---
- AKA
- Howl
I'm not sure where I read this, if it was here, or just by random googling, but...
Cobalt XIV and Indigo XV...? What...is this an actual thing that was left out of the game or did fans make this up?
Cobalt XIV and Indigo XV...? What...is this an actual thing that was left out of the game or did fans make this up?
ForceStealer
Double Growth
Marlene wasn't actually OPERATING the bar, guys. She was playing with the drink-mixing stuff, but they left in the morning, the bar wouldn't open until the evening or lunch, presumably.
Yeah, she was left alone which isn't super advisable, but this is the slums.
@Nanaki, yes that stuff was real. Assuming they didn't make stuff up for the Early Material Files
Yeah, she was left alone which isn't super advisable, but this is the slums.
@Nanaki, yes that stuff was real. Assuming they didn't make stuff up for the Early Material Files
Starling
Pro Adventurer
From what I read, it was a scrapped concept from back when Nanaki was supposed to be a "beast-type SOLDIER", Seto wasn't his father and Cosmo Canyon had a subplot about sages, one of which was apparently called Gandalf.
I'm not sure how accurate that is but it was presumably back when Jenova was a gene that granted psychic powers to those it was active in, which goes a long way to explaining some of the things I noticed in the OG.
I'm not sure how accurate that is but it was presumably back when Jenova was a gene that granted psychic powers to those it was active in, which goes a long way to explaining some of the things I noticed in the OG.
NikolaiBroketheZoom
Neophyte
I played FF7 before I watched Twin Peaks, but going and replaying the OG afterwards I did feel like there was something really Black Lodge-y about the "Tifa and Cloud in the Lifestream" and "Imposters in Nibelheim" scenes.
ForceStealer
Double Growth
I agree that it's a little weird. But the Tiny Bronco's VTOL abilities of a helicopter and the range/speed of an airplane WOULD be fairly useful. The Highwind wasn't ready, and the only other aircraft Shinra was shown to have were helicopters and the Gelnika cargo planes.
So if they really wanted to get to the Temple in a hurry, it makes some sense. But it is still a bit contrived, yeah.
So if they really wanted to get to the Temple in a hurry, it makes some sense. But it is still a bit contrived, yeah.
Knights of the Round
Pro Adventurer
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