LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
I really love all this moral ambiguity in the game - nobody is wholly good or wholly evil (except maybe President Shinra), and I hope they keep it.
Hopes for Remake & Rebirth (story/content)
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Jairus
Author of FFVII: Lifestream & FFVII: Reflections
While it's good that they're adding a lot of such moral complexity to the story and characters, I just hope they don't get carried away. It's possible, I think, to have too much gray and not know who or what anyone is supposed to be anymore. There need to be at least some things that are black and white. Not everything, of course, but a balance between that and the gray, and doing so would better highlight the differences between the two and allow more character, story, and world exploration than either extreme alone could do, I think.
Obsidian Fire
Ahk Morn!
- AKA
- The Engineer
I think you already have enough black in FFVII that can never get the "is it right or is it wrong" treatment. The game never gives Hojo and Sephiroth a good reason for what they did.
Hojo playing around with people's lives? Never justified. Ever.
Sephiroth wanting to destory the planet with Metor? He knows the entire line about Jenova being an Ancient and being hunted by humans was fake. And he still decides to destroy the world just because he wants too.
The defeat of Hojo and Sephrioth are really where the plot of the OG ends. What happens to Shin-Ra is left much more up in the air.
Hojo playing around with people's lives? Never justified. Ever.
Sephiroth wanting to destory the planet with Metor? He knows the entire line about Jenova being an Ancient and being hunted by humans was fake. And he still decides to destroy the world just because he wants too.
The defeat of Hojo and Sephrioth are really where the plot of the OG ends. What happens to Shin-Ra is left much more up in the air.
jazzflower92
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- The Girl With A Strong Opinion
For Sephiroth, even though he's never justified becoming what he is, fell from being a morally good person to what he is now. In contrast, Hojo was always bad to the bone. Sephiroth is irredeemable in his current form, but he wasn't always that way.
OdaDaimyO
Conqueror of Sugar
- AKA
- Mochi Lover
I'm absolutely aware about the fact there's nothing nailed in stone when it comes to the connection between these two organisations. At this point, the only other fact we know is that President Shinra is using Wutai as temporary scapegoat.
Now here comes the part that is "coming out of left field". To be more precise, I'm theorising that President Shinra doesn't associate Avalanche with Wutai at all! He DOESN'T call them Avalanche, but "sewer rats". I believe it was Tets that mentioned, how it seems like they never heared about Avalanche before. I think it has something to do with Heidegger's mocking undertone, like he doesn't believe they're REAL Avalanche members: "These sewer rats appear to call themselves Avalanche, Sir." Maybe Shinra knew about Barret's group and how they were isolated from the main faction. For them, they were only a bunch of delusional wannabe terrorists, until to the point when they blew up the first reactor. Yes, it's true they were under surveillance through the whole time during bombing run, but Shinra actually never thought they would come out alive, especially with the Scorpion Sentinel as their ace in the hole. And normally that would've been the case, but there was one factor they didn't calculate, CLOUD! With that successful strike against Shinra, other cells would change their minds and decide to give them a helping hand after all. As reaction to that, Shinra hastily plans a countermeasure to intercept possible threats from the main faction. And that's how the conspiracy against Barret's group was born.
In the end, Shinra understimated their enemy (oh, déjà vu), and the whole hologram spectacel was nothing but show, because in reality, Wutai was the only thing they come up with in that short time. This would mirror the Shinra company l remembered from the OG days. When an enemy appears that is more than your average infantry soldier, this company proofs to be absolutely incompetent to deal with the problem.
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Roger
He/him
- AKA
- Minato
I'm absolutely aware about the fact there's nothing nailed in stone when it comes to the connection between these two organisations. At this point, the only other fact we know is that President Shinra is using Wutai as temporary scapegoat.
Now here comes the part that is "coming out of left field". To be more precise, I'm theorising that President Shinra doesn't associate Avalanche with Wutai at all! He DOESN'T call them Avalanche, but "sewer rats". I believe it was Tets that mentioned, how it seems like they never heared about Avalanche before. I think it has something to do with Heidegger's mocking undertone, like he doesn't believe they're REAL Avalanche members: "These sewer rats appear to call themselves Avalanche, Sir." Maybe Shinra knew about Barret's group and how they were isolated from the main faction. For them, they were only a bunch of delusional wannabe terrorists, until to the point when they blew up the first reactor. Yes, it's true they were under surveillance through the whole time during bombing run, but Shinra actually never thought they would come out alive, especially with the Scorpion Sentinel as their ace in the hole. And normally that would've been the case, but there was one factor they didn't calculate, CLOUD! With that successful strike against Shinra, other cells would change their minds and decide to give them a helping hand after all. As reaction to that, Shinra hastily plans a countermeasure to intercept possible threats from the main faction. And that's how the conspiracy against Barret's group was born.
In the end, Shinra understimated their enemy (oh, déjà vu), and the whole hologram spectacel was nothing but show, because in reality, Wutai was the only thing they come up with in that short time. This would mirror the Shinra company l remembered from the OG days. When an enemy appears that is more than your average infantry soldier, this company proofs to be absolutely incompetent to deal with the problem.
Clearly Shinra is gonna choose to allow the second reactor to be blown up while being fully capable of stopping it just like in the original. I don't think they care about Mako Reactor 1 that much, if anything, making people be scared to live in Midgar is good for President Shinra longterm, he wants people to want to move to Neo-Midgar.
Roger
He/him
- AKA
- Minato
Sure but the way that thing fought it would have certainly rendered the Reactor inoperational by the time it hunted down and killed Jessie, Biggs and Wedge. Can't deny that either.
Ite
Save your valediction (she/her)
- AKA
- Ite
Yep. Let’s see how Heidegger and Scarlet’s new toy stacks up against these wannabes... what? It almost destroyed the reactor core with its laser? Shit. And they defeated it? They have a what? A SOLDIER? Well so do we, right? Who’s left? Mullet Cheese?? What happened to J-Pop Redcoat? I can’t be expected to remember everyone’s name.
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
Damn, Ite. That was funny shit.
jazzflower92
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- The Girl With A Strong Opinion
Shouldn't he be talking 70's slang instead?
OdaDaimyO
Conqueror of Sugar
- AKA
- Mochi Lover
- With Scorpion Sentinel's success of stopping the trial, you would need to subtract the additional damage the bomb would have made
- We cannot say for sure, if SS's havoc would have been enough to destroy the reactor's core
- SS would've need to follow the Avalanche trio's escape route through the surface, that would've brought him further away from the reactor core, so the damage he deals at this point isn't very effective
- If Shinra's top priority would've been the destruction of the reactor, then why did they call SS to interfere Avalanche by ACTUAL DOING TERRORisty THINGS anyway?
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Roger
He/him
- AKA
- Minato
I didn't say destroy the core, i said render the reactor inoperational. The core is useless if the pipes that carry the Mako away have holes in it.
Would do you mean, President Shinra was waiting for them with an ambush when they came out of Mako Reactor 5. No indication was made that they were interested in disarming the bomb they obviously came there to place. Having already lost 1 reactor, losing a second reactor was considered acceptable losses to ambush a few key members of AVALANCHE in the OG. Showing them being willing to put Mako Reactor 1 in harms way in the first place is a very small stretch in my mind. More then worth it, if it means getting more scenes with President Shinra before he bites the big one.
Would do you mean, President Shinra was waiting for them with an ambush when they came out of Mako Reactor 5. No indication was made that they were interested in disarming the bomb they obviously came there to place. Having already lost 1 reactor, losing a second reactor was considered acceptable losses to ambush a few key members of AVALANCHE in the OG. Showing them being willing to put Mako Reactor 1 in harms way in the first place is a very small stretch in my mind. More then worth it, if it means getting more scenes with President Shinra before he bites the big one.
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Clement Rage
Pro Adventurer
Cloud does advise the exact opposite of of what they should do, in fairness.
Could Barret take the Scorpion Guard? Maybe. Cloud talks a big game, but he's not that much better a fighter, at least in the opening mission.
So Shinra has to replace some punctured pipes. Not a big deal.
Are we sure that the Prez allowed them to bomb reactor 5? Maybe EOD just didn't get to it on time, or Jessie makes a really good bomb they can't easily disarm.
Initially, they get detected on the train, which instantly locks down, forcing them to jump off. Ideally, they would have been caught there.
After which they do a lot of skulking around in vents and hiding. Maybe they get a sudden alert and have to scramble to pin them down.
Could Barret take the Scorpion Guard? Maybe. Cloud talks a big game, but he's not that much better a fighter, at least in the opening mission.
So Shinra has to replace some punctured pipes. Not a big deal.
Are we sure that the Prez allowed them to bomb reactor 5? Maybe EOD just didn't get to it on time, or Jessie makes a really good bomb they can't easily disarm.
Initially, they get detected on the train, which instantly locks down, forcing them to jump off. Ideally, they would have been caught there.
After which they do a lot of skulking around in vents and hiding. Maybe they get a sudden alert and have to scramble to pin them down.
Roger
He/him
- AKA
- Minato
What, and the President was the first person they could send down there?
Clement Rage
Pro Adventurer
They'd already tripped the alarm on the train, they were known to be in the area, he wanted to meet them once captured. Rufus' first response on learning Sephy killed his Dad was to show up in person in his chopper.
Freki
Lv. 25 Adventurer
- AKA
- Freki_M
I really hope they build upon the characters relationships outside of Cloud and whoever he's interacting with.
For example in the novella, Barret and Cid got time together and it was cool reading about our favorite angry middle-aged men interacting, swearing at things, and breaking stuff, and we also got Yuffie and Nanaki spending time together looking for materia and it was absolutely wholesome.
It really helped build their personalities more and it nailed their characters, and I'm hoping we get to see that more come the remake. It could be the two party members you have with you bantering back and forth, or during scenes where all the characters are together you could listen into them talking to eachother (IE: the town under Junon, Tifa and Aerith were talking, Yuffie and Nanaki were talking, and Barret was talking to a random Fisherman
I always thought the original game showed us the friendships that were forming in a very barebones way, just which characters are friendly with eachother, and I loved it, but now is the chance to expand that. FF7 in my eyes has the best cast out of any media I've seen, and it'd be a shame to squander that opportunity.
For example in the novella, Barret and Cid got time together and it was cool reading about our favorite angry middle-aged men interacting, swearing at things, and breaking stuff, and we also got Yuffie and Nanaki spending time together looking for materia and it was absolutely wholesome.
It really helped build their personalities more and it nailed their characters, and I'm hoping we get to see that more come the remake. It could be the two party members you have with you bantering back and forth, or during scenes where all the characters are together you could listen into them talking to eachother (IE: the town under Junon, Tifa and Aerith were talking, Yuffie and Nanaki were talking, and Barret was talking to a random Fisherman
I always thought the original game showed us the friendships that were forming in a very barebones way, just which characters are friendly with eachother, and I loved it, but now is the chance to expand that. FF7 in my eyes has the best cast out of any media I've seen, and it'd be a shame to squander that opportunity.
jazzflower92
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- The Girl With A Strong Opinion
Why are they called middle age? They are only in their 30's. That's still young.
Claymore
3x3 Eyes
It's just a by-product that has seeped into society of when people used to die a lot younger. Nowadays, 30 isn't 'middle aged' at all. It certainly doesn't help when companies try to reinforce it from time to time in order to sell you crap and make you panic as if your life is now well and truly over.
LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
He is really, let's be honest. It's just that the world of FFVII is a small planet with diminished gravity and acelerated life spans, where little girls are running bars by themselves at 4, NGOs recruit child soldiers aged 10, boys join the military when they're fourteen, teenage girls are raising families, and by 30 you're over the hill.
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