SPOILERS If Genesis does return, how would you like to see him handled?

[Roundhouse]

Genesis is probably the most unpopular character in the entire FFVII universe. That being said, it's highly possible that he will make a return in the remake -- even Weiss is back! -- so how would you like to see him handled if/when he does show up?

To me, I think it would be interesting if he made a Raiden style comeback. Raiden was unpopular with fans in MGS2 (whether that was justified or not is another story), and made a comeback in MGS4 where he became much more accepted. He was more powerful than before, but also more vulnerable. Maybe they could have Genesis being more powerful due to his status as Protector of the Planet, or whatever he is, but give him deep regrets for how he behaved during Crisis Core, and someone like Zack will need to be there to support/boost him. (Cat has an idea where Genesis should be mako degraded in some way.)

Essentially I just want a super cheesy scene where Genesis and Zack replace Raiden and Snake, like this scene in MGS4:

Genesis: It was never going to work out for me...it even rained on the day I was born.
Zack: You've got it all wrong...you were the lightning in that rain!
Genesis: The lightning...
*Price of Freedom plays*

 

[LNK]

I've always said I wanted Genesis to be apart of Remake. Still not exactly sure how Weiss will be used for Remake, besides as a combat battle simulation, so I can't say for sure how I'd like to see him handled. If he's just used as flashbacks to establish him for subsequent parts or as some backstory for Sephiroth, that's fine with me.

 

[Kain424]

I generally like what they've done with the characters so far, so I have interest in seeing how Genesis could be handled in Remake. I think there was only one clunky line delivery that bothered me in this first part, so a lot of it is going to come down to performance. And they seem like they're doing a good job in that regard so far.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

Genesis is interesting since unlike Sephiroth, no one in AVALANCHE has any personal connection to him. They *might* remember he was a SOLDIER from five years ago... but Shinra has been covering up the fact that he ever existed, so they could very easily have no idea what he is doing.

I get the idea that there will be a lot more "back in Midgar" type sequences. Where the player gets to see what factions/characters other than AVALANCHE is up to. And Genesis feels like he would fit in well there.

As for how he's portrayed. CC goes out of it's way (particularly in the Ultimania) to show that Genesis' read on what Loveless is talking about is *correct*. At least... by the end he was. It is worth noting that once Genesis gets healed by the Planet, he never quotes Loveless at someone once. Refert to it? Yes. But only conceptually. Instead, he's a lot more focused on... the memory of what he wanted at one point (getting to be with Sephrioth and Angeal in Banora). The Ultimania confirms that he is... fully on the side of the Planet and wants to protect it. So... It feels like his madness mantra will be gone at least. He doesn't need to hang on to sanity anymore since he's now healed. The ironic part is, even when he was crazy, he knew more about what actually happened than Sephrioth did and knew what it meant. So, it would be interesting to see how Genesis is when he's not (understandably) obsessed with healing himself from a terminal condition that has no known cure.

The big thing is, Genesis was more or less being set-up as Sephrioth's foil in Crisis Core. They do similar things and react in similar ways... but their ultimate goals are different enough that they end up in very different places. And are very much on opposite sides of the upcoming conflict. Sephrioth wants to become a god. Genesis wants to protect the world from evil. There's no way they aren't headed on collision course. Only unlike Cloud (and the rest of the Sephiroth Copies) Genesis can't really be mentally messed with by Sephrioth. Or rather, Jenova already tried doing that and Genesis fled as hard as he could in the opposite direction.

So... I think Genesis is as close as we'll get to "what if Sephrioth managed not to internalize Jenova's goals, but kept the power he got from her?"

 

[cold_spirit]

For starters, I'd de-canonize Dirge's secret ending with Genesis and Weiss. Just say in an interview that it was conceived as a marketing tool to increase awareness of Gackt's involvement. This really has nothing to do with how I'd handle Genesis in Remake... I just don't like that the OG continuum ends with a cliffhanger.

As for Genesis in Remake, to me he'll always be Zack's counterpart. Both romanticize the role of being the hero, but differ in how they respond to learning of Shinra's horrible experiments. A lot of people have become confident of Genesis's return due to the presence of Weiss, but for me the fact that "Zack is Back" is the bigger indicator. Nojima wrote Genesis to be Zack's antagonist. This intrinsically links the two in my mind. Furthermore, by the end of Crisis Core they are ideologically in agreement. SOLDIER honor is the core of both their identities. So, whatever adventure this new Zack gets swept up in, I think it should involve Genesis as a guide and/or friendly rival. Zack will need to be integrated somehow with Remake's new story, and who better to lead him there then the planet's sworn swordsmen.

 

[Shademp]

Neither the games (nor the developer interviews) has convinced me of Genesis as anything other than an awful, awful person who will only ever listen to the Goddess. And because the Goddess/Minerva/"The Planet" may not always act in favor of our protagonists, Genesis will stay a villain.

I hope to see Genesis as the planet's new weapon against Sephiroth in Remake, but of course Genesis doesn't care who gets hurt along the way so long as the prime goal is achieved. Genesis will be well-informed of the time shenanigans, same as Sephiroth is, and might even tell the party what caused the cracks in time to happen in the first place.

Ultimately I hope to see Genesis being completely owned by Sephiroth, perhaps Sephiroth ending the encounter with the line "I told you that you would rot."

For starters, I'd de-canonize Dirge's secret ending with Genesis and Weiss. Just say in an interview that it was conceived as a marketing tool to increase awareness of Gackt's involvement. This really has nothing to do with how I'd handle Genesis in Remake... I just don't like that the OG continuum ends with a cliffhanger.

I bet they'll include a chapter in Ever Crisis that takes place post-DoC and handles the secret ending properly.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Genesis... The Beginning....
The nightmare begins.
I would like to see him handled with Lazard's kid gloves.
Or preferably manhandled right out of a window.

 

[Keveh Kins]

The party swaps him with the huge materia in the Shinra Rocket right before it torpedoes into Meteor and he's never spoken of again.

A man can dream

In all seriousness, I wouldn't mind his inclusion so long as they retcon his involvement in the Nibelheim incident to remove him from it entirely. He was such an unnecessary addition to it in CC.

 

[Clement Rage]

I remain eternally puzzled by the extent of the hatred for Genesis.

 

[Torrie]

One of the fanfics I've read portrayed Genesis as a scientist working for the remains of Shinra (basically, ex-Shinra, now-Strife Delivery Service; the king is dead - long live the king!). So I'd actually love to see Genesis redeem himself by doing some scientific work. Let's let him grow his hair, wear a lab coat, and look into ways of treating degradation, which of course will never happen.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Neither the games (nor the developer interviews) has convinced me of Genesis as anything other than an awful, awful person who will only ever listen to the Goddess. And because the Goddess/Minerva/"The Planet" may not always act in favor of our protagonists, Genesis will stay a villain.

Yes. His goal may be different, but his personality has only ever been shown to be that of a narcissistic, sycophantic zealot.

Not that he's necessarily irredeemable, but we've been given zero indication of him wanting to atone. Reclaiming his honor as a SOLDIER is hardly an indication. That notion means different things to different folks -- and considering what Genesis has devoted himself to thus far ... His time as a SOLDIER was spent as a vainglorious attention seeker pontificating about an entity he probably fairy told into existence.

 

[Wol]

Is Genesis one of the most disliked FF characters ever?

I'm still waiting for a bug fix to remove this error.

 

[Roundhouse]

It's hard for people to have lower expectations of him....which will make his comeback even better.

 

[Lestat]

so how would you like to see him handled if/when he does show up?
[/I]

Would love for him to appear and with a book on hand ready to regale the group about who he was only for the midgar zolom to appear behind him and bite him in two.

Fade to black.

Did sephiroth do this?

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

My objection to him is that he's one dimensional and boring.
I don't hate him. I hate the fact that so much of CC was devoted to me Zack trying to save a character I didn't give two hoots about.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

I remain eternally puzzled by the extent of the hatred for Genesis.

By this point, watching people hate on Genesis has become one of those fandom things where I kinda just break out the popcorn and get entertained by it all.

Say what you will about Nojima, but he knows how to write characters that people feel very strongly about... whether it's because they really like the character or hate their existence. It's better than writing characters people are apathetic about...

 

[Cae Lumis]

By this point, watching people hate on Genesis has become one of those fandom things where I kinda just break out the popcorn and get entertained by it all.

Now to decide... when the fireworks do finally go off, should the song to listen too while dining on Popcorn be Vesper Lynd's "We'll Meet Again", Ray Charles' "I Can't Stop Loving", or Patsy Cline's "Crazy"?

As for evidence that he dedicated himself to Protecting the Planet, I think the Q&A section of the CC Ultimania has it?

Q6-3: After Genesis is collected in the ShinRa helicopter you can see a sheet of paper saying “To become the dew that quenches the land; to spare the skies, the seas to sands; I shall become an unspoken offering.” Is this phrase from the lost final chapter of LOVELESS?

A6-3: The final chapter of LOVELESS is missing, and nothing official exists in the world of FFVII. Experts study it, and there are currently various theories about it. The phrase you mentioned is the final chapter of LOVELESS as Genesis conceived it, and reflects Genesis’ state of mind.

By being defeated by Zack, Genesis is able to regain the pride he had as a SOLDIER, and with Sephiroth and Angeal now dead, he decided that it is up to him, who has being left behind, to protect the world. And so, in order to prepare for the day when a crisis threatens the world, Genesis seals himself in the flooded chamber on his own volition. This is the true meaning of Genesis’ version of the phrase from the final chapter of LOVELESS, and at the same time the true meaning of the secret movie in DC (see A7-3).

&

Q7-3: You call tell from the voices that the two men who appear by helicopter and recover Genesis are DC’s Nero and Weiss, but what do they mean when they say “apparently he’s a brother of ours” and “however… will he agree to it?”? From DC’s hidden movie you can interpret that Genesis has been laid to rest in the cave under Midgar up until he awakens, but…?

A7-3: The ‘elder brother’ is used in the figurative sense. If they are injected with Genesis’ genes, that creates a connection, a bond between the cellular units. That is what is meant by ‘brother’.

In CC Nero and Weiss are on a mission to recover Genesis, so in this case “will he agree to it?” means “will he agree to join us or not?” But, as in the response for A6-3, Genesis rejects it and decides to have himself sealed in the water-filled chamber below Midgar.

To someone who has only played DC, when they watch the secret movie in that game they will take it as “an ominous being sealed in a water-filled chamber has been release onto the world”, but if you watch the movie again after having completed CC then one could go 180 degrees and interpret it in a completely different way.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

As for evidence that he dedicated himself to Protecting the Planet, I think the Q&A section of the CC Ultimania has it?

BC's main villain, Fuhito, was also dedicated to protecting the planet.

 

[Cae Lumis]

BC's main villain, Fuhito, was also dedicated to protecting the planet.

For a given definition of "Protecting", not sure if burning it counts tho. Though, for all we know, he could've encountered Minerva while binging one night and misinterpreted a message of "You need help" for "BURN EVERYTHING". Easy to get that wrong.

 

[Roundhouse]

So to summarise, the hopes for Genesis are:

- To be owned by Sephiroth.
- Manhandled out of a window.
- Sent as a torpedo into meteor.
- Bitten into two by a giant snake.

 

[Odysseus]

Can we also throw him into a lake?

 

[Lestat]

I mean we could always throw in a random chloroform & shanking for good measure?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

For a given definition of "Protecting", not sure if burning it counts tho.

That hurts things on the planet, sure, but not the planet itself.

Though, for all we know, he could've encountered Minerva while binging one night and misinterpreted a message of "You need help" for "BURN EVERYTHING". Easy to get that wrong.

Well, I wouldn't look to a sociopath like the G Man for anything more reasonable.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Perspective is everything and given the unrealized and nebulous nature of what they're talking about with Genesis, we have no idea where his character's head is after 3 years of sleep.

On one hand, the audience would be led to believe Zack had some influence on Genesis in the end, given his choice to embrace his SOLDIER pride and reject his belief of being a monster. Zack gave Genesis peace and a taste of salvation, being his unwitting ally in curing his degeneration, reenacting Loveless, and realizing his childhood dream.

On the other hand, Genesis is insane. It doesn't take much to push a Jenova Project sibling over the edge, and given his past deeds, it's pretty easy to picture Genesis carrying away Weiss to "save the planet" with one wing dipped in the blood of the innocent.

This is sequel speculation we've been doing for almost 15 years and it's hard to maintain the same level of enthusiasm or interest for something still left so unfinished. However. I will say that given the wording and wrap around they did with the secret ending Dirge of Cerberus, it leads one to believe they were attempting to subvert expectations with Genesis' alignment and appearance. The movie gives off clear sinister vibes but the writers clearly wanted to emphasize the opposite. That doesn't mean Genesis is a hero or ally, but I find it unlikely they imagine him as the new "big bad" given the context.

Not to mention it'd be so hollow and trite. Why replace Sephiroth with, Diet Sephiroth? It'd be creatively lame and cliche to substitute the original One-Winged Angel with his buggy, flawed, and less charismatic prototype. He's too much of a foil for Sephiroth to be his replacement, with far less compelling characterization to fill the shoes of a main villain in the series. He would best be utilized in a Dark Knight role, lending aid to the characters from the shadows, and remaining enigmatic as he perhaps tries to atone for his actions in his own personal way.

His character is best utilized in a "less is more" capacity, because strong, legendary characters who speak less convey strength and wonder, and Genesis' biggest weakness in Crisis Core was his raging insecurities. To convey character growth and a return of his SOLDIER pride, he would need to convey a more captivating and less childish personality.

If the Remake wanted to cameo Genesis, they'd best accomplish it that way. He would need to appear hardened yet matured from his experience of Crisis Core, and stronger. And if he is going to be the "older brother" of the Tsviets, he has to at least give the appearance he can throwdown like rest of them.

 

[Roundhouse]