SPOILERS INTERmission Chapter 2 Spoiler Discussion

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
ako, I feel like it's giving a lot of credit to Japanese game devs to have them insert a very subtle joke about American cable news in the background of the opening FMV of a PS2 game in 2006.

It's not that subtle though?

It's a basic pun.

And CNN isn't just American. It's a global cable news network. Like, it's no different than there being a "Wacdonalds" in anime.

Then why did they both discover the same information within weeks of each other?

Because it's there?

The information is there, Deepground exists as do it's rumors. It's an urban legend, Shinra Labs deep beneath Midgar where experiments on people go on.

Playing through some of the Remake (again), in Chapter 4 once you return to the Sector 7 Slums after parachuting back down from the upper plate with Jessie, you can find a group of women NPCs by Biggs house talking about finding jobs in Midgar. And one of them talks about working for Shinra in an unidentified experiment at a reactor. And she says she heard it pays well. However, her friend reminds her of the rumor that a lot of people don't come back from that kind of work.

What do you think that work is, hm?

It's all ubiquitous at this point. Shinra human experimentation on "grounders" or other undesirables they need to make disappear, is a dark urban legend based on fact.

The investigative journalism and WRO researching and discovering the same thing means they were working off the same info and found the truth. WRO however tried to cover it up because they wished to avoid mass panic.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
It doesn't seem that inaccessible from the outside. We see two people levering open a door, and while they have probably done some work beforehand, there doesn't seem to be any visible heavy machinery or anything, and there's only 38 of them, so there's a limit to the amount of excavigating they can accomplish. Unless it was a question of finding the right door to lever open.

Are you of the understanding those people let them out? It seems very unlikely that those folks accomplished in a few seconds what all of Deepground had failed to in more than two years ...

I've always understood what we see in that news footage to be civilians -- dissatisfied with the WRO's official line on the matter -- desperately, angrily taking matters into their own hands and investigating in response to the disappearances that had begun happening after Deepground breached the surface.
 

Roundhouse

Pro Adventurer
My friend, the fates are cruel,
When the hero returns none will await him,
He will search for his love in vain.

Even if the morrow is barren of promise,
He will continue seeking,
Until the day they reunite,
The sacrifice at world's end.
 

Mayo Master

Pro Adventurer
Hey folks!
[reads 32 pages of comments]
Geez, the thread had been completely hijacked by the 10 seconds of Zack!!!

Anyway, I thought I'd share my impressions on Chapter 2...
Well, I really enjoyed it. First, on the gameplay level: combat continued to be very entertaining, especially with more time to do more combos with Sonon. Also, the "Bust-a-box" minigame (in particular: finishing that last bit of SOLDIER training) forced me to actually get a much better handle on Yuffie's gameplay than I initially did. I must admit that I was throwing attacks willy-nilly in the first part of the game, and to me the final stage of Bust-a-box served as a great tutorial to actually git gud. For one thing, I felt I was well in control of the entire fight vs. Nero.

For me, the highlight of the chapter was Scarlet taking the role of the main villainess. Like for so many other characters, SE did a splendid job of developing her original characterization. She always carried herself with a feeling of superiority and invulnerability. She was always in control during her confrontations with Yuffie&Sonon, turning condescension into a work of art. I like how she toyed with their sentiment of "being the good guys" to ensure they wouldn't do a thing to her. Awesome stuff.

Exploring the weapon development lab was really neat, with all the heli-gunners on display. I personally enjoyed the tie-in with Deepground and Dirge (personally, I've never played Dirge and I only watched cutscenes on Youtube, an experience that left me on a definite "meh"), they've made a pretty solid job with how creepy Nero was. Deepground sure looks like a meat grinder, seeing how easily the basic soldiers get consumed. Anyway, Nero was a great boss fight and a very good way to finish the chapter. I'm not fussed about how Yuffie's encounter with Deepground is jeopardizing Dirge's plot, because at this point in time the events of Dirge have not come to pass and things can follow many different directions from there. Besides, in the meantime, the Whispers probably had their hands (?) full anyway.

Alas, poor Sonon - the guy was fated to die before he even had screen time (looks at what's happening to Zack)... Right. :mon: I really didn't mind him as a character - I understand that some folks can be quite jaded with some tropes, but I think he served his purpose in the story well enough. I did prefer that he died with a bit of blood. Otherwise I agree that drawn-out death scenes tend to be less impactful. Sometimes, less is more. The execution left something to be desired :desu:

And now, the ending.
The chatter between the main characters was great, heartwarming even, with so many references to the OG lines (Barret not meeting any argument when calling himself the 'leader' was interesting). The growing camaraderie between the party members, and seeing the ramparts of Kalm in the distant arid landscape, those things really make me yearn for part 2. Gotta be patient! I'll admit I did not realize Choco Bill was the truck driver until after the credits rolled :doh: (I was like "he looks familiar and his character design is distinct, I'm sure I've seen his face before" *scratches head*)

As for Zack and his Pandora box of paradox: I can't say I have much to add, really. Or rather, I don't really feel strongly for one theory or another. In my view, while "where Zack is" is shown, "when Zack is" is not. The presentation suggests that the distressed folks inside the Church are refugees from the Sector 7 Plate collapse, but there's nothing to confirm it. We could be looking at post-Zirconiade drama for all we know. There's the issue with the 3-months gap that others have outlined. And if Zack is on a merging timeline with where & when the party is, we have the paradox of having 2 Buster Swords and 2 Clouds (not to mention: what would alive!Zack do with comatose!Cloud moving forward?). All I know is that I'm ignorant, and all I'm hoping for is for things to make sense in the end.
To be honest, the level of What-the-fuckery is actually not worse than the events at the Northern Crater and their aftermath, when playing the OG for the first time (and you don't know that the Lifestream scene is a thing). On that ground, I remain optimistic about how the whole story will turn out.
 

Tetsujin

he/they
AKA
Tets
I completely forgot about brumal form, this is making my life easier a bit for sure :wacky:

Bahamut still wrecking my shit though but at least I progressed. Got him staggered once even. But man, once he summons Ifrit things get ~h a i r y~

edit: Did a bit of grinding to get my Elemental materia up to lvl 2. At least I should be able to nullify most of Ifrit's shit now >.>

edit 2: whew, just did it. This took a few attempts. Definitely harder than the Top Secrets battle in the main game, I did that on the first attempt :wacky:
Now for Intermission hard mode and finally, Weiss :monster:
 
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Clement Rage

Pro Adventurer
Are you of the understanding those people let them out? It seems very unlikely that those folks accomplished in a few seconds what all of Deepground had failed to in more than two years ...

I've always understood what we see in that news footage to be civilians -- dissatisfied with the WRO's official line on the matter -- desperately, angrily taking matters into their own hands and investigating in response to the disappearances that had begun happening after Deepground breached the surface.

I don't think the timing works for that, the footage came in from three weeks ago, the reporter's tone would be different, and they'd never have got so far alive.

What I understood to happen went something like this.

1. Hojo uploads himself to the internet
2. The internet goes down with Meteor.
3. Shortly before Dirge, the internet is switched back on (which is why they'gre celebrating in Kalm) so Hojo is revived.
4. He gets into DG systems and makes Nero an offer.
5. He sends information to the WRO, because he needs someone to break the seal, which is where the WRO gets Scarlet's files but knows basically nothing about them. With or without WRO involvement, the rescue team goes in (both the newscaster and Reeve mention uncovering new info recently, they're not acting on old urban legends.)000
6. The rescue team break the seal, which is designed to keep DG in, not outsiders out. They're never seen again.
7. Nero vanishes people from Junon. Their screams are heard from Edge. The WRO suppresses the story, but goes on alert. Nero can't collect enough captives by himself, DG gears up for war.
8. Reeve, knowing something is up, alerts the old AVALANCHE gang, including meeting Vincent in Kalm.g
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
There's nothing that says Hojo got outside people to let Deepground out. They were getting out on their own and scouting the surrounding areas in secret.

The investigative team did not break out Deepground either. Nothing indicates that.

The new info Reeve discovered was on the specifics of Deepground, their purpose, and their members, like the Tsviets. That came from newly discovered Shinra files.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
I don't think there's really anything proving it one way or the other. I just know which sounds silly to me.

EDIT: But I do have to agree that the timing with Hojo's copy reawakening a few weeks prior could lend itself to that theory. He should have known how to get them out.
 
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Yet another thought regarding Aerith missing in Zack's new timeline: One potential consequence of the Whispers being destroyed might be that certain individuals are now only allowed to physically exist in one timeline at a time. Aerith's self in what became the terrier timeline dissolved but partially affected Aerith's soul in the beagle timeline, which is why "her stomach is in knots". She feels the ripples of her other self being removed from existence.

If something along these lines is happening, we may or may not see other people being displaced between timelines all willy nilly. Zack might also find soon that his Cloud has disappeared as well because there can be only one Cloud. Here's hoping Zack doesn't also lose his Buster Sword (or that Cloud loses his Buster Sword because of the conservation of time and energy).
 

KindOfBlue

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Blue
…you sure it’s not from the DC universe?

In all serious, whether we’re in an alternate timeline or a parallel timeline, I’d be interested to see an outcome where Meteor actually succeeds, I guess that could be the “bad timeline”?
 

TurquoiseHammer

Pro Adventurer
Ignoring the Great Timeline Debate for the moment because it really deserves it's own thread. Onto more interesting Integrade Specific Stuff...

Yuffie and Sonon talk about a time AVALANCHE fought against Wutai. Pretty sure this is a reference to BC's AVALANCHE... Godo is locked up somewhere in jail. So that's different this time around in general. Wonder who decided to do that to him given his OG personality and reasons he spearheaded stopping fighting against Shinra. Not that a lot of other Wutains in CC decided to go along with that idea...

We also now have at least four different groups of AVALANCHE in the Compilation. Barret's, the one Yuffie works with, Elfe's and the one at Cosmo Canyon. Kinda wonder if we'll meet any more...

Sonon's "death" is... really suspicious. And by suspicious I mean... Nero kinda just flat-out kills everyone else ASAP. And then he drags Sonon's death out and lets Yuffie get away. And Sonon gets the mother of all death flashbacks. And Nero is *very* insistent on bringing Sonon's body into his darkness with him and he doesn't bother doing that for anyone else...

This has me side-eyeing the DoC Multiplayer story and thinking Sonon would make a *really* good candidate for taking the Restrictors out from the Tsivet's point of view. They know he's good enough to at least make problems for Nero. And they know he already hates Shinra enough to get into a fight with Scarlet. And actually win for the most part. And then you have him fighting against Shinra before they even *get* there. So they know they don't need to motivate him a ton to want to take the Restrictors out. Although I do think that part of why Sonon has such a long death flashback is because Shelke is rooting around in his head and seeing what's there (and making him see one "vision" that doesn't look like the others).

And... that last bit's important. It's too much SND that makes the Tsivets use a different person to take each Restrictor down in DoC Multiplayer. And I don't think Shelke would need to use *much* SND on Sonon to get him to want to kill off the Restrictors. If the Tsivets didn't have to keep starting from scratch... that could move up their timeline to kill off all the Restrictors by quite a bit. Enough that DG might break out much earlier than last time around.

Half of me likes this idea because it opens the door for Sonon and Yuffie to get into a situation where they fight each other. The other part of me likes this because this doesn't exactly make Sonon living instantly *fix* anything given how bad DG is. I could totally see Sonon not being alive at all. The other part of me thinks this would be a *really* good way to bring in DoC Multiplayer's story with a character everyone actually cares about and is not a random nobody.
Was really happy to see someone else make this connection. I had to check when I made a similar Reddit post and you beat me to it by 3 days! Honestly the second I saw Nero pulling Sonon into the darkness and Sonon having the Melfi flashback I was like, "Yep, they're gonna convince him Melfi was killed by the Restrictors and turn him into the DoC online PC." They make a big deal of establishing Sonon's connection to Melfi, and on top of that use the same sepia filter that is used when presenting Weiss's memories of Deepground's cruelty.

By the way, and quite unrelated—I haven't had the time to read every post in this thread yet but has anyone remarked on the empty sliver of sky visible over Zack's shoulder as he opens the door to the church? Ordinarily this would be where the Sector 6 plate would be, but if you take the skybox error into account it could represent that the Sector 7 plate has fallen. I know this is a CG scene and not subject to the same skybox limitations of the in-game environments; but the in-engine references used by the CG team could have thrown them off.

Edit: Okay yes it was mentioned.
 
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Mayo Master

Pro Adventurer
*Phew* Finally managed to complete the combat simulator, that took me a while (namely, I had to do 2 full playthroughs in Hard mode to level up the Materias enough). Oddly enough it's the Pride&Joy fight that took me a while to figure out. My first attempts were mostly *Pride&Joy grabs Sonon* -> *Killed by Beam Canon* -> *Game Over* under a minute. :doh:
I think what threw me off was that I needed to be aggressive on the Bahamut fight and the Ramuh fight, whereas I had to be very conservative on the Pride&Joy fight. In the end, what worked for me was to focus on having always enough ATB for Burmal form to evade the Beam Canon, and kiting while letting Sonon do all the damage. It worked out well but it required patience. Pure attrition.
 
As Yuffie wandered the basement floors of Shinra HQ, she thought to herself how much she hates being boxed in. It was then that she ran across a training program that involved destroying boxes.

Yuffie:
300px-My_Time_Has_Come.jpg



Well done, @Odysseus!
 
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