Is Final Fantasy VII Remake GOTY-worthy? (*Open Spoilers*)

[looneymoon]

I think the AAA market goes for that hyper-realistic / edgy feel in general. In the years where those types of games won, most of the nominees from that year can fit under that same umbrella.

The years that Overwatch and BOTW won, there were plenty of nominees that would fit the trend a lot better.

 

[BoxFBall]

GOTY? Nah probably not, that should go to Ghost of Tsushima. I got the The Last of Us 2 on sale for $15 and still haven't finished that game, man it is BORING I don't see what people see in that game, Resident Evil 2 Remake is so much more fun to play.

FFVIIR is RPG of the year though, for the simple fact that Persona 5 Royal is more of an expansion to Persona 5 than a new experience, but if Persona 5 Royal came out for the first time this year I'd say it should be game of the year. I love both of these games though.

 

[Smoothie King]

GOTY? Nah probably not, that should go to Ghost of Tsushima. I got the The Last of Us 2 on sale for $15 and still haven't finished that game, man it is BORING I don't see what people see in that game, Resident Evil 2 Remake is so much more fun to play.

FFVIIR is RPG of the year though, for the simple fact that Persona 5 Royal is more of an expansion to Persona 5 than a new experience, but if Persona 5 Royal came out for the first time this year I'd say it should be game of the year. I love both of these games though.

Resident Evil 2 was incredible . TLOU2 was not even close to that.

 

[FFShinra]

The only thing I'm mad about is the acting awards. TLOU2 had two bites of the apple AND won. I'd not mind them winning if not for the fact that its so heavily weighted in their favor. 7R got robbed there.

 

[BoxFBall]

Resident Evil 2 was incredible . TLOU2 was not even close to that.

I don't even understand what the gripes about TLOU2's story are about because the gameplay is so boring and repetitive I don't even care. I'm glad I only paid $15 for it. Resident Evil 2 remake still gets played, I have beaten it at least 20 times and it still hasn't gotten old, TLOU2 was stale before I made it through the second story arc. Lol

I'm playing DQXIS right now and this game is so great. This was a great year for RPGs, FF7R, Persona 5 Royal, and DQXIS are all top notch high quality games it is really hard to pick a favorite between the 3.

 

[Smoothie King]

I don't even understand what the gripes about TLOU2's story are about because the gameplay is so boring and repetitive I don't even care. I'm glad I only paid $15 for it. Resident Evil 2 remake still gets played, I have beaten it at least 20 times and it still hasn't gotten old, TLOU2 was stale before I made it through the second story arc. Lol

I'm playing DQXIS right now and this game is so great. This was a great year for RPGs, FF7R, Persona 5 Royal, and DQXIS are all top notch high quality games it is really hard to pick a favorite between the 3.

Amen. I could gush about RE2 for days. What an incredible experience. And yes, a great year for RPG's as well.

 

[AerithLives]

So after the *MAJOR* leaks regarding The Last of Us 2 earlier this week, and the fact that most of us have finished Part 1 of the Remake, I want to ask you:

IS FINAL FANTASY VII REMAKE GOTY/AWARD-WORTHY?

And if YES, which award do you think it deserves?

View attachment 5984

I'd say no. The ending was utterly ridiculous and was all over the place. They showed fans absolutely no respect. They are just making it up as they go along (which they've admitted). I question the sanity of anyone who thought that the ending was utterly moronic.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I question the sanity of anyone who thought that the ending was utterly moronic.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

I think your attempt to belittle people who disagree with you kinda got away from you there sy2pie

 

[KindOfBlue]

They showed fans absolutely no respect. They are just making it up as they go along (which they've admitted)

I can’t help but find takes like this pretty hyperbolic (assuming it wasn’t intentional) considering the crew behind this game consists of both OG devs and fans and the reception to the remake was mostly positive, also I don’t recall the devs admitting to such a thing

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Sy2pie, you thought the ending of FFVIIR was utterly ridiculous, and yet you question the sanity of anyone who thought it was utterly moronic? Doesn't that mean you question your own sanity?

 

[BoxFBall]

I'd say no. The ending was utterly ridiculous and was all over the place. They showed fans absolutely no respect. They are just making it up as they go along (which they've admitted). I question the sanity of anyone who thought that the ending was utterly moronic.

Seeing stuff like this is why I don't take most gamers serious at all. You got some fucking nerve to tell the developers, most of whom worked on the original game, what to do with THEIR STORY.

Far as I'm concerned they can do whatever the hell they want with their intellectual property, if you don't like it you are perfectly entitled to not like it and not play it, but talking about show you respect as a fan screams entitlement to me bruh. You and a large portion of the gaming community needs to get this through your thick skulls: these developers don't owe you shit. FOH bruh lmao.

 

[Wol]

Seeing stuff like this is why I don't take most gamers serious at all. You got some fucking nerve to tell the developers, most of whom worked on the original game, what to do with THEIR STORY.

Far as I'm concerned they can do whatever the hell they want with their intellectual property, if you don't like it you are perfectly entitled to not like it and not play it, but talking about show you respect as a fan screams entitlement to me bruh. You and a large portion of the gaming community needs to get this through your thick skulls: these developers don't owe you shit. FOH bruh lmao.

So how those choices were executed can't be evaluated at all because the developers made them?

Bullshit. Even developers can make shit decisions, or even good ones on paper but executed horribly, and we should be critical very early or else FF will become KH in the future.

Devs aren't gods.

 

[Clement Rage]

What are the criteria for a nomination? I've never paid attention.

 

[BoxFBall]

So how those choices were executed can't be evaluated at all because the developers made them?

Bullshit. Even developers can make shit decisions, or even good ones on paper but executed horribly, and we should be critical very early or else FF will become KH in the future.

Devs aren't gods.

You missed the whole point of my post. I never said devs are gods. I said in my post you are perfectly entitled to not like it and not support it with your money, but nobody owes you shit. He came off like an entitled brat who feels like the developers owe him something which they don't.

I have said on here before the whispers are cheesy and kind of corny, but I have ZERO problems with them changing the story to modernize it because I played this for the first time as an adult, and while it is great it is far from perfect also. Final Fantasy is already a slightly more mature Kingdom Hearts bro, it is literally a little kids Final Fantasy. Lol

 

[KindOfBlue]

Even developers can make shit decisions, or even good ones on paper but executed horribly, and we should be critical very early or else FF will become KH in the future.

Unless the bulk of the Japanese audience also shares this sentiment, something tells me such efforts won’t get very far. I mean, who really writes the rules as to what decisions are good or bad here?

 

[kathy202]

I don't think the developers showed no respect for the fans. I think they did quite the opposite. Sure, I don't like the whispers and the ending makes me anxious about what they're gonna pull next, but ever since Aerith handed Cloud that flower and mentioned its symbol of a reunion, I felt like the devs had the fans in mind. Maybe I'm just being dramatic/sentimental and have a terribly soft spot for that waifu in pink, but moving on into sector 7 and walking around it with the main theme on the background... I don't know how to describe that feeling, but I don't think a dev team that disrespects their fans could have produced something like that.

If anything, the remake had me questioning my personal choice of not pursuing a career in the games industry, something I haven't regretted in years. But nah, still don't regret it. It just gave me a few moments where I seriouslu thought "If only I could produce something like this".

 

[ultima786]

So how those choices were executed can't be evaluated at all because the developers made them?

Bullshit. Even developers can make shit decisions, or even good ones on paper but executed horribly, and we should be critical very early or else FF will become KH in the future.

Devs aren't gods.

You seem a little bitter. If you look at the game objectively, the game took extreme pain to try and respect the original and provide countless moments of nostalgia, particularly in the quality of the music and the characterization of the cast. But they also tried to keep things fresh and surprising. I think there is plenty of evidence to suggest they meant well. You are welcome of course to not like it.

But @sy2pie, he is claiming the devs disrespected fans. That's presumptive and looking at the game (and particularly the ending) with blinders on.

 

[KindOfBlue]

I don't think the developers showed no respect for the fans. I think they did quite the opposite.

I find the “they disrespected the fans” talking point to be an easy way to get disgruntled people to agree with you but too presumptuous to take seriously most of the time

 

[BoxFBall]

I find the “they disrespected the fans” talking point to be an easy way to get disgruntled people to agree with you but too presumptuous to take seriously most of the time

I love what they are doing with the remake. These characters have so many new dimensions and so much new life in them, while still feeling like the same characters that everyone fell in love with from the original game. None of these characters actually acted and voiced out comes off very different from how they felt in the original game.

I feel the developers are being very respectful to the original. People are going to be very upset being mad about the whispers and the beginning of the rest of the game, just to find out as far as the main scenario is concerned it will probably be 95% the same, they may expand on some things, but I highly doubt they will change anything. Has anyone ever thought that they had that ending for NEW PLAYERS to the game. The original game is over 20 years old, and very dated technologically. I was new to the game, because I loved RPGs but hadn't played it before. I beat the remake, absolutely loved it, went back and played the original and completely understood why for it's time it was so loved. I am a newcomer to this, I'm sure there are a lot of us the ending needs to leave some mystery even if it ends up being about nothing.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

I think... the developers have very different priorities than some fans do. Everything I've seen them say about the game and about the story makes me think they care more about wowing people with graphics and shocking people with plot twists and making FFVII relevent to the gaming world again. Which means giving the fans what they think they want: to see the events of the OG in modern gaming graphics.

It should be noted none of that is... actually required to have a good satisfying story at the end of the day. When I compare reasons the events of the OG happened to the reasons the events of the Remake happened, they feel very different. As do some of the character's motivations (particularly Aerith). I don't... particularly care about the events that happen in a story. I've read a lot of literature and seen that... nothing really new happens in most stories when it comes to events. You can always find a story that has had a certain even, plot point, etc. happen in it. However, the reason those similar events happen varies from story to story. You could have a similar events taking place for variety of different reasons and that is what matters to me.

And the reasons that events happen in the Remake? I'm not all that thrilled or sold on them. They feel very... gamey and contrived to the point it feels like the characters are arguing with the story writers about what they should be doing a lot of the time. I've never been more... frustrated... with these characters or this plot. This isn't a story where I stop watching it and think about how the story unfolded and like it more. It's the kind of story where I think about that and wonder what the hell the characters were thinking that lead to them doing what they did. It is ironiclly... harder to suspend my disbelief about what is going on in Remake than what is going on in the OG because there's so much in the story that makes me think "this would only happen like this in a video-game" when it comes to plot direction and world-building and character reactions and how all that interacts with each other.

This isn't to say Remake is a fun game to play or watch . The characters bounce off each other really well and in the moment it's mostly fun to see. It's just that... after I stop watching and playing and can get down to analyzing the game like it's a piece of literature... it just kinda kills my long-term enjoyment of it. Which... is... the reason why I liked FFVII in the first place... so to see Remake failing at the thing I liked about the OG... It kinda makes me wonder what exactly the devs think is important about the OG. And I get the feeling it isn't why events happened...

 

[KindOfBlue]

People are going to be very upset being mad about the whispers and the beginning of the rest of the game, just to find out as far as the main scenario is concerned it will probably be 95% the same, they may expand on some things, but I highly doubt they will change anything.

Because of how well they nailed the characters, I’m mostly positive about where we’re going. Of course there’s a small part of me that worries for the possibility that they could change Aerith’s fate or butcher the lifestream scene but even after that crazy ending, I’m not convinced they’d go that far just yet.

I think... the developers have very different priorities than some fans do. Everything I've seen them say about the game and about the story makes me think they care more about wowing people with graphics and shocking people with plot twists and making FFVII relevent to the gaming world again.

See, this is one of those things where I’m convinced that if you ask the people who made this game, surely they’ll tell you that they genuinely care about the plot. In their minds, they probably do care just as how in your mind, you feel they don’t. Who’s to really say?

Can we really decipher the creators’ intentions by projecting our own assumptions onto them? Because not to point fingers at anybody in particular, but a large portion of nerd culture seems absolutely sure that they know what’s going on inside the creators’ heads.

It's just that... after I stop watching and playing and can get down to analyzing the game like it's a piece of literature... it just kinda kills my long-term enjoyment of it. Which... is... the reason why I liked FFVII in the first place... so to see Remake failing at the thing I liked about the OG...

I mean I get what you’re saying about the reasons events happen feeling different, I just don’t know if that’s the game’s fault as I don’t see how it’s fundamentally that different from what we’ve already seen in the OG.

Like the party’s decision to pursue Sephiroth, for example. I know some people criticize how it’s handled in the remake because the characters seem to just blindly go along with Aerith’s spiel, but in the OG they decide to embark on this grand journey to pursue Sephiroth just because...Cloud said they should?

Barret seemed awfully willing to just leave his daughter behind and travel with a group of strangers to chase some guy he barely knows anything about. At least in the remake, the gang witnesses firsthand just how much of a threat Sephiroth is to the planet and I find their motivation to chase him afterwards far more believable.

 

[looneymoon]

I think a lot of people wanted FF7R to see how the writers have matured as story tellers since FF7. What we've seen through the years in the years leading-up to FF7, and what we got with it, wasn't a convincing example of that maturation that was desired.

FF7 did fantastically with the technology it had in 1997. In 2020, it has been outclassed by the general trajectory of games, which has allowed for a lot more. I don't really think they've been super successful in modernizing their writing in tandem with technical advancements. Even after all the years of Compilation material practice, I don't think the core group have a great grasp on film-language, and their main source of scripting is overly self-reflexive in a way that lacks a lick of coherency.

I'm fine to admit that FF7 is something I've outgrown. I just wish it wasn't.

edit: in terms for GOTY, it won where I felt it deserved to win, but also lost in equally deserved amounts.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

The most mature writing I have seen come out of the Compilation isn't in any game or any movie. It's in On The Way To A Smile, the series of novellas about how the cast handled the outcome of the OG. Actually, The Kids Are Alright is also up there in terms of maturity with themes... and some really good creepy Jenova based horror, Kadaj is... I'm honestly more freaked out by Kadaj in Kids Are Alright than I ever have been by Sephrioth or Jenova (His use of Mimic is freaky).

Anyway... point being... it's not that the writers of FFVII can't write mature stuff that deals with mature topics. They can. It's that... somehow that kind of writing doesn't make it into their finished games very well. Not without a lot of other stuff taking the forefront instead.

Most of the stuff in OTWTAS... doesn't have anything to do with the Lifestream or anything to metaphysical (except Aerith and Seprhioth). It's about coming up with an alternate source of power to keep the world running, dealing with living longer than most people you know, making up for the mistakes of your parent's company when no one believes you genuinely are doing that, making a living and home out of a pile of rubble, helping a nation rebuild from war while a pandemic is going on, etc. It's... about very mundane issues that don't feel "fantastical" at all. But the characters really come out and get developed in a way that... doesn't happen in the rest of the Compilation (even in the OG for some of them). Even ACC does this with Cloud as it's more of a "Case of Cloud" novella from the OTWTAS series than anything else.

And I think that kind of writing was what people were hoping to see more of in Remake. The thing is, almost none of that kind of writing is... action-packed. It's mostly a lot of conversations and introspection (which even ACC manages to fit in!). And... the Remake was all about being action-packed and flashy.

 

[Makoeyes987]

It's that... somehow that kind of writing doesn't make it into their finished games very well. Not without a lot of other stuff taking the forefront instead.

Most of the stuff in OTWTAS... doesn't have anything to do with the Lifestream or anything to metaphysical (except Aerith and Seprhioth). It's about coming up with an alternate source of power to keep the world running, dealing with living longer than most people you know, making up for the mistakes of your parent's company when no one believes you genuinely are doing that, making a living and home out of a pile of rubble, helping a nation rebuild from war while a pandemic is going on, etc. It's... about very mundane issues that don't feel "fantastical" at all.

That's because that kind of narrative slice-of-life experience usually isn't enough to completely carry a full-blown FF JRPG, in terms of audience entertainment. There's a very real reason why people eat up the type of action and fantasy theatrics that are principle to this entire genre and FF especially. That type of heavy character centric writing and introspection is the perfect type of narrative for focused extant works like novellas or perhaps DLC/sidequests but when the entertainment value focuses on combat, missions and wide-scale high stakes adventures and fantasy, it's just not going to be something that "sells" the product, at least to a point that differentiates itself and reaches success like it has right now.

The Remake offers some of the best glimpses of those human concepts that transcend fantasy, but first and foremost it's going to be a flashy fantasy RPG that's primarily a gaming experience. A gaming experience with some cinematic elements but still a game, nonetheless. I personally think the Remake balances those two types of storyline elements pretty well, and I couldn't ever imagine enjoying an FFVII that just takes itself so seriously it feels like a Naughty Dog epic.