Japanese audio track subtitles: concerns

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
#26
This feels like it's contextually worth mentioning: There is also a notable difference between CAPTIONS and SUBTITLES. If it was an option for Captions, the individual yells and battle cries would at least be indicated somehow if they're not transcribed – as they're extraneous but they do at least represent meaningful audio cues. If it's an option for Subtitles, extraneous dialogue reactions or things utilized as repetitive sound effects during attacks are generally omitted, because they aren't dialogue even though they're words.

Generally, this is why some things are subtitled (because it's triggered as a dialogue event), whereas others aren't (because it's part of a sound-effects string). In games, if you DON'T do that, little attacks and other things can interrupt dialogue. In FFXV it was already somewhat bothersome when the Imperial dropship dialogue triggers interrupted regular speech, but if any attack or other word could trigger an interrupt like that, you'd experience more issues of missing dialogue.

The alternative is building a whole hierarchy of subtitle prioritization and overrides to make sure that important dialogue doesn't get skipped or overridden, and again – that's one of those things where the RoI isn't really gonna be there, and unless there's some REALLY good AI at play, having captions that can interpret anything that's happening that isn't in a pre-planned cutscene is gonna be a pretty significant task.

Again – Not saying that it CAN'T be done. There are things to make it possible, but it's just technologically difficult, and it's a matter of looking at the tradeoff in information conveyance that's happening. Anything that the game considers important enough to be dialogue is subtitled, and if there's some really cool 1-2 word thing someone yells, it's likely that it could be adjusted and treated as a dialogue string rather than a sound effect to overcome the problem instead.



X :neo:
 

SailorStarDust

Kept you waiting, huh?
AKA
SSD
#28
She says “I’ll protect you!” ? :excited:

List of most wanted mods has been increased by: 1
Heh.

Funny enough, I could easily play VIIR on Steam whenever it arrives—but the fangirl in me wants this experience specifically for the PS4 (...eventually 5??).

So glad I'm seeing this concern! I thought I was going crazy seeing no one else mention it other places online. I suppose there just aren't that many English speakers who know enough Japanese to get upset haha.

I've sent SE my thoughts, and I really hope they do consider adding 1-1 subtitles. I could grit my teeth and try to play the JP version if not, but I'm lazy and don't like reading tutorials/menus/UI in Japanese ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Thank you so much for sending your thoughts, too! :joy: I was seriously shocked to see not as many fans concerned about that sorta thing, but as you said, it's probably a combination of fans not knowing enough of the language vs those more comfortable playing/watching English dubs (nothing at all wrong with that, mind you—it's just not my personal preference).

but also you must have the script there to record the voices. just add those too. come on, my dudes.
Exactly what my personal frustration is when fans receive such dramatically different translations:nah:

i played the resident evil 2 remake (jp audio/jp subs) and iirc that did match? i don't recall at all now. but now i'm wondering if they have just one track there too and it matches the japanese audio instead. i only played the one shot demo so i couldn't test out different combinations and also i can't afford to buy it.
RE2 Remake EN subs with JP audio were all sorts of messed up (IMO), but as you said, probably the JP audio and JP subs were synced. I'm pretty sure that's how RE 7's Japanese audio with JP subs were a few years ago, too.

(As an aside, love how Strangelove was your avatar for awhile. She totally made Peace Walker!)

just watched the japanese trailer (i hadn't seen the full one, i only saw a shorter 1 minute one with a few different scenes and assumed that was the only one) and this one stuck out to me. but this is where only having trailers makes it hard to assess. does this line tie in to a piece of dialogue that's not in the trailer where maybe cloud and tifa talk about protecting and this is tifa saying that it's her turn to protect him?
My fiancé and I thought the same that perhaps both "I feel trapped" and "I'll protect you" contextually fit in prior (unseen to the audience so far) English-dialogue discussion between Cloud and Tifa.

Just a fun aside in terms of how translations change with time. "I'm in a bit of a pinch" (where she says "I feel trapped"), referencing the promise in the Remake trailer. In the OG, Tifa's pinch (https://jisho.org/word/ピンチ Last Order also used "pinch") in English was rendered as "being in a bind".

That said, I can't wait to see the context of why Tifa's talking about feeling trapped, other than her feelings of revenge, wanting to take action vs not wanting innocents killed.
 

Fangu

Great Old One
#29
Sooo

It's been mentioned in this thread, but (at least) back in the day, anime would often be subbed first, then later (if at all) dubbed. These subtitles were free of having to fit any timing or lip sync, and so would often be - I'm not gonna use the phrase 'more accurate', but they didn't have the same time and space limitation as dub translations would be. And so it happened that the first time I got my DVD set of The Heroic Legend of Arislan/ Arslan Senki (the original OVA, I know it's been remade since) I was gawking over for the first time seeing it with its gorgeous Japanese audio, PLUS subtitles, which weren't "English for the hearing impaired" (= direct subs of the dub), it was the first subtitle made for the anime. And that fucking thing made _so much more sense_. Because there was a lot of things in the dub that was hard for me to understand (I was like 14 but still), that the subtitle managed to explain so much better, because it didn't have to fit a time frame or any lip syncing.

Hearing that Judge Eyes/ Judgement will have "non dub translation subtitles" warms my heart _so much_. I mean, I'm not surprised that coming from that series (franchise? don't think it's a franchise really) because Yakuza is the most glorious thing to have hit this gaming planet. But *ahem* anyway

What I'm trying to say is that this isn't really a discussion that's about 'good' or 'bad' translations, it's more about the restrictions that a dub (vs a sub) requires. The original VII obviously had speech box restrictions that led to some wtfs (in lack of a better word) (see Tim at Kotaku's glorious translation videos on VII), but a dub leads to even more restrictions. That being said, I think video games have gotten really good at getting good dub translations - sometimes I wonder how the fuck they even manage to do it because it's fucking art. But it's hard. And I'm not saying the level of wtf is really high, because it used to be higher, and I do believe the quality of games is much above anime, at least back in my days where we had to order VHS's off some shady private person in some small town in my country I'd never even heard about. Anyway.

I see how a separate subtitle requires more work than just having a dub and a literal dub subtitle, but if a game can be arsed to put out both... idk, it'll probably confuse as much as not, and it all comes down to what market segment you're reaching. The thing about Judge Eyes/ Judgement is that the other Yakuza games aren't dubbed (except for the first one), and so they know a large portion of their fan base will be playing the games with Japanese audio, because tbh, that's really the only ways to play them, don't @ me :monster: So even now when they're releasing that game with an English dub, they're still putting in a non-dub-sub (if I understand the previous post here correct and DEAR LORD I HOPE I DID) and that's one loud applause to me because if they only released that game with an English translation formed for dub.... it just wouldn't be the same.

So final words, everyone should play a Yakuza game. You really should.

Edit: OH and I wish they'd do separate subtitles for VIIR but I doubt they will.
 
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AKA
The Engineer
#30
It also depends how they are doing the localization process as a whole. FFXIV is a bit odd in that regard since the Japanese script is not made before the Engish (and German and French) scripts are. Instead, an outline of everything that has to happen in a scene is given to all the localization teams and they all work on it at the same time. So there's no "canon translation" in FFXIV between the Japanese and English versions of FFXIV. They are both as "canon" as the other one is (as are the German and French translations).

It'll be interesting to see how FFVIIR handles the localization this time around.
 

Kain424

Old Man in the Room
#31
I think Max said something on this subject in one of his videos. Something about talking to the developers, who told him they were translating everything according to the different regions, so a character like Barret would be the boisterous guy we all remember over here. But he'll be played like they remember over in Japan.

So it sounds like you're just going to have to pick your own canon.
 

Lex

Administrator
#32
"Faithful subtitles" are actually a thing in btw (at least in anime) though it's pretty rare. FMA: Brotherhood on Netflix offers translated English subtitles and also subtitles for the dub. I actually used to enjoy watching in English with the translated Japanese subtitles to spot moments where the English took liberties, even though FMA: Brotherhood is one of the better voiced anime in English.

I would really like to see translated subtitles for the Japanese VO track on FFVII remake, but I also think it's very unlikely they'll bother.
 

Strangelove

AI Researcher
AKA
hitoshura
#33
finally watching the japanese trailer made me wonder want to look at how different the two versions are. so i looked at the trailers and wrote down notes. the english lines are taken from the youtube closed caption, and the japanese line i transcribed myself since the japanese channels didn't add captions.



ハイデッカー (Heidegger)
「このネズミどもは『アバランチ』を名乗っているようです」
JP: "These rats appear to call themselves AVALANCHE."
EN: "These sewer rats appear to call themselves AVALANCHE, sir."


verdict: the english script works fine

ジェシー (Jessie)
「あげる 助けてもらったお礼」
JP: "Here [I'll give you this]. A token of gratitude for saving me."
EN: "You can have it for saving my life."


verdict: not a significance difference in meaning

ジェシー (Jessie)
「本気で誘わない?」
JP: "Why don't we invite [him to join] for real?"
EN: "You think he's a keeper?"


verdict: this one is more iffy. the english line sounds like she's asking for opinions on cloud's suitability for joining avalanche. but the japanese one sounds more confident about where she stands and that she's pushing the idea herself.

バレット (Barret)
「ちょっと待て」
JP: "Wait a sec."
EN: "On my go."


verdict: a trivial difference, really.

バレット (Barret)
「俺たちの活動は星を救う そのために必要な犠牲は払う」
JP: "Our actions will save the planet. We'll pay the necessary sacrifices for that."
EN: "Y'all gotta look at the bigger picture here. Nothing worth fighting for was ever won without sacrifice."


verdict: i feel like the japanese line is more direct and cold? but the main meaning of sacrifices is the same.

エアリス (Aerith)
「助けて!」
JP: "Help me!"
EN: "Help me!"


verdict: such massive differences[!]

ティファ (Tifa)
「マリン」
JP: "Marlene."
EN: "Marlene?"


verdict: yeah okay

バレット (Barret)
「ただいまー! ははははは」
JP: "I'm home! Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha."
EN: "Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. Have you been a good girl?"


verdict: not really a major difference

クラウド (Cloud)
「作戦に乗り気じゃないらしいな」
JP: "Seems you're not keen on [this] plan."
EN: "I heard you're having second thoughts."


verdict: same basic concept mostly? japanese line perhaps lacking the sense that tifa was on-board with the plan at first and had a change of heart, and it also seems to be more specifically about a particular plan/operation.

ティファ (Tifa)
「今までと同じやり方じゃ何も変わらない それは分かってるんだ」
「でもなぁ、かなりピンチ」
JP: "Nothing will change if we keep on with the same methods as before. I know that. But still... [I'm] in quite a bind."
EN: "I know we have to think big if we're going to make a difference... but not like this. I just... I feel trapped."


verdict: this is the second line where the english script injects a 'bigger picture' aspect into the line. also, unless the english dialogue elsewhere has changed to match (or it's also lacking in the japanese script), this loses the callback to cloud and tifa's promise. so there's a notable difference here.

ティファ (Tifa)
「守るから!」
JP: "I'll protect [you]!"
EN: "My turn."


verdict: different, but possibly not changing the meaning in context? the end of the japanese line implies further context ("because i'll protect [you]") so you don't really know from one isolated line.

クラウド (Cloud)
「先に行け」
JP: "Go on ahead."
EN: "Get going."


verdict: not substantial

エアリス (Aerith)
「うん」
JP: "Okay."
EN: "Okay."


verdict: okay

クラウド (Cloud)
「ティファ」
JP: "Tifa."
EN: "Tifa."


verdict: why am i including names

ティファ (Tifa)
「これで決める!」
JP: "This clinches it!"
EN: "Got you now."


verdict: not really a major different, same essence?

バレット (Barret)
「おらおらおらー!」
JP: "Ora ora oraah!"
EN: [no caption]


verdict: what do translations of jojo's bizarre adventure do with jotaro/star platinum's "ORAORAORAORAORA!!!". i just want to know now

クラウド (Cloud)
「ありえない… あんたは…」
JP: "It's not possible... you're..."
EN: "You're not real. You're..."


verdict: a small difference but not significant

セフィロス (Sephiroth)
「クラウド 力を貸してくれ」
「走るんだ 逃げて、生き延びて」
JP: "Cloud, give me your help. Run. Escape, live on... [and]"
EN: "Cloud. I have a favour to ask of you. Run away. You have to leave. You have to live."


verdict: not really not much

クラウド (Cloud)
「ふざけるな!」
JP: "stop chattin' shit, mate"
EN: "You bastard!"


verdict: different meaning but not significant to alter meaning

セフィロス (Sephiroth)
「私を忘れるな」
JP: "[... and] don't forget me."
EN: "Hold on to that hatred."


verdict: the japanese line sounds more like part of the previous ones, that this is part of the same request. and doesn't take the 'hatred' angle. (it made me think of the advent children line in a way, 'i will never be a memory'?)
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
#36
That makes me more confident that Sephiroth is actually quoting Zack's last words to piss Cloud off.
Why?...Those were never Zack's last words in any iteration of Zack's death.

And to presume that it's suddenly going to be Zack's last words ignores the obvious context of Sephiroth's antagonism and direct reasoning he would want Cloud to "hold onto that hatred" or not forget him.

He needs Cloud to follow the Reunion. And he wants Cloud to aid in his ressurection and obtaining the Black Materia. Quoting Zack would either mean nothing to Cloud at best, or at worst alert Cloud to gaps in his memories and have him question things and potentially learn the truth in a way that would break Sephiroth's control over him.

Like, it would be in-universe and narratively foolish to try and shoehorn a tie in to Zack this early in the game. The plot has just started. Zack doesn't show up until the one moment Sephiroth himself decides to drop the bombshell regarding Cloud's fractured memories. There's not supposed to be any hint at all Zack even exists.

Shoehorning shit that has no business being in part 2 would scream "hey just in case gaiz let's throw it all in so there's no regrets!"

Sephiroth is one thing, since he's just as big a draw as Cloud and deserves top billing. But Zack literally isn't supposed to be shown to exist until the most dramatic moment in Cloud's personal story. Why would they do that and allude to something that's meant to be one of the biggest plot twists to players that make them question Cloud's identity?

It'd be like Sephiroth hinting that Aerith might meet an untimely demise if she keeps up following Cloud. It gives up the plot in the cheapest and dumbest way possible.
 
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Kuraudo.

Lv. 1 Adventurer
#37
Cheers Lifestream community.

I'm a bit pissed off, to be honest. They are gonna take again freedom in changing dialogues and we might lose the real meaning behind character developments.

Can we create a big petition to let Square Enix understand the importance of this and then let them do the right damn thing following up on the translation?

At least this time!
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
#38
... What losses of real meaning here?

Hito literally went line by line, and showed at most a single moment of meaning divergence between the scripts of the trailers. And that might not even be the case given context of proceeding lines in the scene itself.

I actually like a localization sub that makes the lines of the story sound like something equivalent to spoken English and realistic dialogue.

Not just transliterated lines that sound stilted and empty. It kills the immersion and personality of the characters.
 
AKA
Mr. Ite
#39
In the last few days I’ve been comparing two mods of the OG: A New Threat (which cleans up the awkwardness/mistakes in localization with the English personality) and Beacause (a very stale transliteration with a crippled Japanese personality) I have to agree with Mako here. While I will definitely enjoy reading a transliteration document outside of play, to derive more depth and understanding of the story, I think transliteration subtitles don’t grab English audiences in the same way a translation would.

Why does everyone think Sephiroth is “quoting” something here? He’s not genesis ffs
 

Odysseus

Potato Cult Leader
AKA
Ody
#40
Yeah, I really don't get where this whole "He's quoting Zack to make Cloud angry" idea is coming from. The dialogue, while maybe coming off weirdly friendly, still makes sense in-context for Sephiroth. Cloud dying in Midgar would throw a giant wrench into his plans, so he wants Cloud to ditch Avalanche and focus on hunting him down.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
#41
Why?...Those were never Zack's last words in any iteration of Zack's death.

And to presume that it's suddenly going to be Zack's last words ignores the obvious context of Sephiroth's antagonism and direct reasoning he would want Cloud to "hold onto that hatred" or not forget him.
I haven't noticed anyone presuming it -- just suggesting the possibility, and in some cases being fond of the idea.

Let me reiterate what I've already said on the topic:

It could easily end up being that some of those are Zack's last words for this rendition. We have no way of knowing right now. At the very least, "You have to live" sounds like something Zack might have said then. Certainly he expressed that sentiment, even if not the precise wording.

I also want to point out that Seph quoting Zack doesn't necessitate Cloud remembering him. In the original, Seph said plenty of mysterious things to Cloud that he understood while Cloud didn't at the time. That's just what villains do.

Of course, it would be weird for Seph to quote Zack at all since Cloud's weakness -- and thus, Sephiroth's intent for Cloud -- is better served by him not remembering, so saying something of such important reference would be foolish. But then those lines are still weird regardless. Likely as they're meant to be.
Like, it would be in-universe and narratively foolish to try and shoehorn a tie in to Zack this early in the game. The plot has just started. Zack doesn't show up until the one moment Sephiroth himself decides to drop the bombshell regarding Cloud's fractured memories. There's not supposed to be any hint at all Zack even exists.

Shoehorning shit that has no business being in part 2 would scream "hey just in case gaiz let's throw it all in so there's no regrets!"
I don't think you understand what people are suggesting when they bring up the idea. The notion isn't about hinting that Zack exists. It wouldn't do that even a bit.

What it would do is provide dialogue layered with additional meaning that comes into greater focus upon subsequent playing of the game -- just like the original game did early on with the "This isn't just a reactor!" flash or like FFVIII did with "So you're the legendary SeeD destined to face me?"

I'm not convinced that this is what's happening here, but I'd be lying if I said the idea didn't occur to me as well when Sephiroth started saying these really bizarre lines. Right now, it's odd dialogue that has meaning beyond what's on the face of it, and we're waiting to see what that meaning is. It could be as simple as Seph offering Cloud "encouragement" because he wants Cloud to stay alive long enough for Seph to get to screw with him -- or it could be that plus making a low-key mocking reference to something that originally had a completely opposite intention behind it.

Personally, I don't mind the current mystery, nor do I find anything particularly egregious about the notion of them working in layers of meaning to the game we hope they're working hard on. I'm not sure why you do.

Yeah, I really don't get where this whole "He's quoting Zack to make Cloud angry" idea is coming from.
I don't think anyone has suggested that quoting Zack has anything to do with making Cloud angry? Sephiroth appearing to Cloud at all is going to elicit the angry reaction.
 

Kuraudo.

Lv. 1 Adventurer
#42
Dear Makoeyes and Mr.Ite, I respect your opinions... but let me disagree:

I'm not against a proper localization, that brings weight to the character (FFIX docet).

Staying not loyal to the "Japanese" dialogues and consequently not loyal to the Japanese authors in the character development... means following a different vision/direction.
Is that just "okay" for you? Even though will be meaning lose some "more depth and understanding of the story" live while playing?
Of course, just assuming so far since we don't have much to compare yet.

[OT]BTW Beacause (Precisely "Reunion 05c" and soon Reunion 06) is not a simple transliteration but a total re-localization of the OG,
correcting bilion of grammatical mistakes, dialogues of Barret/Mr.T, Red XIII/Nanaki pre and after Canon dialogues (yes they suppose to sound differently), tic of Reno, and many others.[/OT]

Cheers
 
#43
[OT]BTW Beacause (Precisely "Reunion 05c" and soon Reunion 06) is not a simple transliteration but a total re-localization of the OG,
correcting bilion of grammatical mistakes, dialogues of Barret/Mr.T, Red XIII/Nanaki pre and after Canon dialogues (yes they suppose to sound differently), tic of Reno, and many others.[/OT]
In the dryest, most soulless manner possible because it is not a localization. Perfect translations do not exist, and should not be pursued, because you wind up with stilted dialogue that, even if it includes those awful fansub paragraphs that explain in excruciating detail what one particle implies, unavoidably is not "loyal" to the Japanese authors because the essence of the material is lost. To capture the experience and soul of a piece is more important to maintaining the intent of the artist than transliterating every specific word is.
 

Kuraudo.

Lv. 1 Adventurer
#44
Shall we be fine with a more cool word/phrase for the English audience in a certain context... and then lose the meaning/link on Part 2 FFVII scene?

Just making an example. Hope you get what I mean.
 
#45
Well is it supposed to be "cool" in Japanese? If so, yes, I would like to see a localization that maximizes that same reaction in English. If the direct translation doesn't sound cool to English ears, you've maintained the meaning, but lost the actual effect and intent.

As for links and later callbacks, well that would depend on a competent localization team, which I think Square has demonstrated pretty well over recent years. Especially as compared to VII's original localization.
 
AKA
Mr. Ite
#46
^what Force said. It all comes down to consistency. If, rather than say “I feel trapped,” Tifa emphatically looked at Cloud and said “I’m in a bind,” it would convey the meaning that the Japanese line bears. Another option would be to change her dialogue in the Promise flashback. “If you ever become a hero, and I become trapped, you’ll come save me, all right?”

Or something to that effect.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
#47
I haven't noticed anyone presuming it -- just suggesting the possibility, and in some cases being fond of the idea.

Let me reiterate what I've already said on the topic.

I don't think you understand what people are suggesting when they bring up the idea. The notion isn't about hinting that Zack exists. It wouldn't do that even a bit.

What it would do is provide dialogue layered with additional meaning that comes into greater focus upon subsequent playing of the game -- just like the original game did early on with the "This isn't just a reactor!" flash or like FFVIII did with "So you're the legendary SeeD destined to face me?"

I'm not convinced that this is what's happening here, but I'd be lying if I said the idea didn't occur to me as well when Sephiroth started saying these really bizarre lines. Right now, it's odd dialogue that has meaning beyond what's on the face of it, and we're waiting to see what that meaning is. It could be as simple as Seph offering Cloud "encouragement" because he wants Cloud to stay alive long enough for Seph to get to screw with him -- or it could be that plus making a low-key mocking reference to something that originally had a completely opposite intention behind it.
So you're saying Sephiroth would be aware of the connection and quotation of Zack's last words but Cloud himself is oblivious.

I see, so we definitely won't (or rather shouldn't) know until much later on. I mean if it is a reference like that, then that's not a problem, at least narratively speaking.

I personally think it'd be kinda weird for Sephiroth to use such a coded mocking reference on Cloud since he'd presumably not get the zinger of the line at all. Cloud's supposed to be completely lost in the illusion of his fake memories.

I suppose Sephiroth could derive some personal and internalized satisfaction of using what could be Zack's own words against him here, but that seems extremely subtle and layered than his usual tormenting of Cloud we've seen before. Sephiroth seems to prefer to mess with Cloud in ways that rile his emotions directly. A subtle and contextually hidden "burn" seems a bit much especially since the only time Cloud would ever get the subtle taunt, he would have to be aware of the truth. And I doubt he'd ever want that.

But I suppose it could be Sephiroth reading Cloud's repressed memories and bemusedly accessing portions Cloud's not aware of. And then amusing himself by quoting them to the hapless Cloud. I guess Sephiroth has to pass the time being a torso in the Northern Crater somehow :mon:

It'll just be a very, very long time before we find out. Or at least it should be.

On the subject at hand regarding translation... What I will say is that as @ForceStealer said, the translation that best captures the spirit and context of the line is far more appropriate and meaningful than a transliteration of the text that emphasizes the precise word used while losing the language or speech that would say it.

What I find interesting for instance is the subtlety the Remake is doing in capturing the feel or names of certain lines/objects/items while also making them different.

The Guard Scorpion is now the Scorpion Sentinel. Grunts are now called "Combatants" or "Special Combatants." They seem to be going for an updated and faithful translation of enemies, items and abilities while ensuring the general theme is recognizable and similar. Barret's limit break "Big Shot" being renamed "Fire in the Hole" is acceptable to me.

So yeah. If anything, the Remake seems to be doing things right. I have no reason to worry about losses of meaning or understanding here.
 
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a_apple

Pro Adventurer
AKA
orange
#48
... What losses of real meaning here?

Hito literally went line by line, and showed at most a single moment of meaning divergence between the scripts of the trailers. And that might not even be the case given context of proceeding lines in the scene itself.

I actually like a localization sub that makes the lines of the story sound like something equivalent to spoken English and realistic dialogue.

Not just transliterated lines that sound stilted and empty. It kills the immersion and personality of the characters.
I absolutely agree here. The authenticity of the dialog is so much more important than its accuracy. Of course that doesn't mean that the translation team should just make up shit but most of the fan favorite quotes from VII are coming from a translation that took pretty big liberties
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
#50
Well the best way to get authenticity and accuracy is to not transliterate and give a localization. :mon:

One obviously shouldn't make shit up, but to make a foreign language's translation not only make sense but sound like natural and in-character dialogue, a translator has to *localize* and flourish the line so it reflects not just the linguistic meaning, but the contextual, in-character and narrative meaning.

An example.

"Aibou" means "partner" in Japanese and Atem and Yugi call each other this in Yu-Gi-Oh Duel Monsters all the time. A translator could correctly translate this phrase as "partner" and be accurate in the translation of the dialogue... However calling someone "partner" in English carries a far different context and assumption of intimacy than "aibou" does in Japanese.

Translating the line as "buddy", "wing-man", "ally", "bestie" or some other term or nickname that conveys personal platonic and friendly closeness would be a far more accurate contextually in terms of the narrative and characters portrayed.

The infamous dilly-dally-shilly-shally line of Advent Children had absolutely no English language equivalent whatsoever. It was a clusterfuck of a line that was destined to be weird given the source material. In Japanese it's far more common to speak the sound effect of things, while in English, it would be the equivalent of Tifa suddenly going Larvell Jones from Police Academy and making a noise that imitates the sound of a weight dragging against a hard concrete floor. Tifa would then sound and look like an ADHD clown making light of a serious, emotional conversation. Anything else would have to match the lip flaps and flow of the conversation.

That's why literally translating dialogue can be a disaster in conveying actual characterization and context within a story. Some sort of filling in the blanks is always required.
 
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