Jessie, Biggs, and Wedge's Roles in the Remake Thread

[Odysseus]

Poor Wedge, always getting the short end of the stick.

 

[Jairus]

That all depends on how you had Cloud respond to him, TR, or if you even talked to him at all. Also, you may not be factoring in some of Jessie's cut dialogue where she talks to Cloud about Shinra and why she joined AVALANCHE while they're looking at the map monitor together. She does fall in love with him because that's part of her character.

 

[Kai Schulen]

Optional it may be, but Wedge does say lots of meaningful things to/about Cloud: he notices that despite Cloud's persona, he's quite lonely, offers to be there and listen to Cloud whenever he wants to vent, he kinda wants Cloud's approval, and he shows the most hurt reactions when Cloud picks the most jerkass-y dialogue options.

I mean, yes, you can say this is because Wedge is a thoughtful person by nature, but Wedge looking out for Cloud like that appeals to me more than what Jessie and Cloud do together.

 

[ForceStealer]

Her character includes flirting with him. We have no idea whether she "falls in love with him." If so that'd be awfully quick. They barely knew each other...

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I have no stake in whether Jessie enjoys casual sex or not.
However, I find it a bit odd that people seem to think there is a "type" that is "up for it". The fact is, people are way more extraordinarily unpredictable than we all assume.
I don't see what is shallow or selfish about two people having a mutually consensual good time and then going their separate ways.
Anyway, if it's not plot-relevant, the question of someone's attitude to casual sex is not going to arise, is it?

Because some people believe it should be about more than that, and that not everyone sees it the way you and Tets do.

"Some people believe" all kinds of things. Some of it's objectively true, some is not.

Among those things not objectively true:

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Spoiler

I don't see how it would demean her character at all tbh

It would so by cheapening that part of her character and making her more shallow overall.

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Spoiler

Gotta agree with Tets: a liking for some no-strings-attached shagging doesn't demean people or make them shallow. Unless we assume Zack was all talk and no action, he must have enjoyed the occasional casual shag himself. Does that make him a shallow character?

Yes it does, because there should be more to an interest than that, otherwise that kind of thing that you two are saying comes off as selfish and shallow.

At the very least, is it too much to ask for enough self-awareness on your part to recognize that you're insulting actual people who post here with these pithy, petty puritanical judgments? =P

 

[Jairus]

Not necessarily, Force. According to the official timeline here at TLS, it was two months between the time Tifa found Cloud at the train station and the time of the first reactor mission. And I find it very hard to believe that Tifa would never have even tried to introduce him to her friends in all that time. Also, the original meaning (and the Reunion mod's retranslation) of Cloud's line to Biggs about "I don't care what your name are" was actually "I don't care what your name is", which implies the statement was directed solely at Biggs, who was trying to introduce himself. And since we never see Jessie and Wedge introducing themselves - but Cloud calls them both by name later - it's not unreasonable to assume he had already met those two before the first mission. Not that he necessarily was around them that much prior to that, but enough that he knew who they were. And also, it's not impossible for her to fall for him, and we don't know if the remake's timeline will be the same as that of the OG - not to mention she'll likely see him a lot more in the remake then she did in the OG anyway since she'll be around longer.

And Tres, how about you show enough self-awareness to realize I had already let the matter go after that and that insulting me by putting down what I've said when it was meant as an opinion, not a judgement, doesn't help anything? And that "coming off as" something isn't the same as actually "being" something. Or can only one set of beliefs be respected and not another? You were the one who, early in the thread, filled a post with ridicule and jibes.

 

[Makoeyes987]

It wasn't two months before FFVII that Tifa found Cloud. We know only that it happened after 10/5. There is no exact date specification of when their encounter actually happened.

It could have been a month, a month and a half, a month and three-quarters, a week or any variation in-between. That's not an accurate statement.

That's entirely an assumption on your part. We have no indication at all Cloud met or introduced himself to the team of AVALANCHE before their first bombing mission. The fact they tried to introduce themselves to him gives indication that he was completely unaware of who they were in the first place. Furthermore, Jessie's own dialogue with Biggs gives a clear indication that they hadn't met with him either.

 

[Erotic Materia]

And I find it very hard to believe that Tifa would never have even tried to introduce him to her friends in all that time

This has already been addressed. We don't know where Tifa stashed Cloud prior to the first mission, but it's clear that everyone is meeting him for the first time.

also, it's not impossible for her to fall for him

it's not unreasonable to assume he had already met those two before the first mission

"Not unreasonable/impossible" is a far cry from "the most likely scenario".

 

[Jairus]

It wasn't two months before FFVII that Tifa found Cloud. We know only that it happened after 10/5. There is no exact date specification of when their encounter actually happened.

It could have been a month, a month and a half, a month and three-quarters, a week or any variation in-between. That's not an accurate statement.

That's entirely an assumption on your part. We have no indication at all Cloud met or introduced himself to the team of AVALANCHE before their first bombing mission. The fact they tried to introduce themselves to him gives indication that he was completely unaware of who they were in the first place. Furthermore, Jessie's own dialogue with Biggs gives a clear indication that they hadn't met with him either.

We have no indication that Cloud didn't meet some of the others beforehand, either. Biggs is the only one who tries to introduce himself. The others didn't. So your statement is inaccurate. Jessie's question could just as easily be taken to mean that she had met him previously but hadn't known he was in SOLDIER until that moment.

EM, it's not as clear as you think, for the reasons I just specified. And why would Tifa have stashed him anywhere rather than let him stay in or near the place where she was? Which was also the place her friends frequently visited. So even if she didn't go out of her way to try and introduce him, it's not impossible for their paths to have crossed prior to the mission.

 

[ForceStealer]

The implication of their dialogue being that they don't know him is extremely obvious.

 

[Odysseus]

The in game text definitely points to them not having met before then, but honestly the notion that Barret didn't introduce his team to the shady merc he hired before setting out seems kind of ridiculous to me. It's one of those things that exists for the benefit of giving the player information in a concise manner, even if it is a little head scratching.

 

[Jairus]

It wasn't two months before FFVII that Tifa found Cloud. We know only that it happened after 10/5. There is no exact date specification of when their encounter actually happened.

It could have been a month, a month and a half, a month and three-quarters, a week or any variation in-between. That's not an accurate statement.

That's entirely an assumption on your part. We have no indication at all Cloud met or introduced himself to the team of AVALANCHE before their first bombing mission. The fact they tried to introduce themselves to him gives indication that he was completely unaware of who they were in the first place. Furthermore, Jessie's own dialogue with Biggs gives a clear indication that they hadn't met with him either.

Then why is it listed under 10/5 as though it did? There's no indication that it happened on a day other than that, no divider to indicate the date isn't known. And only Biggs tried to introduce himself - the others never did. Yet Cloud still somehow knows their names. That's only possible if they had already met previously off-screen before the first mission. Also, Jessie's question could just as easily be seen to mean that she had met him already but hadn't known he was in SOLDIER until that moment.

EM, it's not as clear as you think, for the reasons I stated above. And why would Tifa have stashed him anywhere instead of letting him stay at or near the place where she was, which was also the same place her friends frequently visited? It's not impossible for them to have crossed paths prior to the mission. As Mako said, we don't know how long before the mission Tifa found him, and it could have been as long as two months. There's no way to be sure.

And as I said, the original translation of Cloud's line "I don't care what your names are," was "I don't care what your name is." That implies the statement was directed solely at Biggs and was mistranslated to include all of them.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

And Tres, how about you show enough self-awareness to realize I had already let the matter go ...

I'm sorry you've previously been left with the understanding that the person initiating the belittling of others gets to unilaterally decide the matter has been let go. I hope I'm now able to clear up the confusion around that. You're seemingly unaware as to how generously lenient the staff here has been with you.

Or can only one set of beliefs be respected and not another?

A belief based in prejudice about other people -- especially other forum members -- is already receiving arguably more respect than deserved by being entertained as a point of discussion.

Also: bro. With the way you've been gatekeeping the relatively insignificant topic of this thread these past several months -- constantly telling everyone what they should want if they're genuinely open-minded or genuinely a fan of this character -- you are absolutely the last person who should think they have the moral high ground to pontificate about "can only one set of beliefs be respected?"

You were the one who, early in the thread, filled a post with ridicule and jibes.

If you're referring to my pre-empting of such deflections as "You're only not agreeing with what i said because you're not trying to be open-minded," I ask you to recognize that insisting you reply to me in good faith rather than be dismissive and disrespectful in those specific ways that you specifically have done on record (to myself and others) many, many times is not ridicule. You need to ask yourself why you think a response made in extensive effort to be boiled down almost exclusively to emotionless minutiae was "filled with ridicule and jibes" instead of an uncharacteristically serious, mostly cold, robotic approach.

Not that I'm denying there were two small jabs in there, 'cause come on. But if you really think the whole of the message was that, we got problems, homie.

 

[ForceStealer]

Why would only Biggs not have met him?

And as I said, the original translation of Cloud's line "I don't care what your names are," was "I don't care what your name is." That implies the statement was directed solely at Biggs and was mistranslated to include all of them.

Given that Japanese generally doesn't specify whether something is plural or not, what are you basing this on?

 

[Jairus]

I'm sorry you've previously been left with the understanding that the person initiating the belittling of others gets to unilaterally decide the matter has been let go. I hope I'm now able to clear up the confusion around that. You're seemingly unaware as to how generously lenient the staff here has been with you.

If I stopped commenting about it and let it go, why pick it up again and harass me about it?

A belief based in prejudice about other people -- especially other forum members -- is already receiving arguably more respect than deserved by being entertained as a point of discussion.

So a difference of opinion is now prejudice?

Also: bro. With the way you've been gatekeeping the relatively insignificant topic of this thread these past several months -- constantly telling everyone what they should want if they're genuinely open-minded or genuinely a fan of this character -- you are absolutely the last person who should think they have the moral high ground to pontificate about "can only one set of beliefs be respected?"

I haven't been telling anyone what they should want. Only trying to counter the criticisms people make about my position. Because most people who've responded don't seem to want to do or try to do anything other than that.

If you're referring to my pre-empting of such deflections as "You're only not agreeing with what i said because you're not trying to be open-minded," I ask you to recognize that insisting you reply to me in good faith rather than be dismissive and disrespectful in those specific ways that you specifically have done on record (to myself and others) many, many times is not ridicule. You need to ask yourself why you think a response made with extensive effort to be boiled down almost exclusively to emotionless minutiae was "filled with ridicule and jibes" instead of an uncharacteristically serious, mostly cold, robotic approach.
Not that I'm denying there were two small jabs in there, 'cause come on. But if you really think the whole of the message was that, we got problems, homie.

But the effect was insulting and mocking. You didn't need to do any of that. Your point could have been made without any of it.

Force, I don't know why it might only be Biggs. But he's the only one who tries to introduce himself. The others don't. Which doesn't make sense unless they've already met him. And the Reunion mod retranslates the line that way, directed solely at Biggs, which according to the mod's creator was how it was originally intended to be. Probably since it was Biggs that Cloud was talking to.

 

[Littlewing]

I feel like they gave jesse's face to Biggs or I mean...Wedge? and vice versa. Oh wait, it's because Jesse's a girl, whoa I never realized that. I am so confused.

 

[Erotic Materia]

And the Reunion mod retranslates it that way, directed solely at Biggs, which according to the creator was how it was originally intended to be.

Did the creator specifically point out this exact scenario (re: Biggs), or are you saying that the retranslation was how it's intended to be on the whole? Because I sincerely doubt that the creator did all that just to say Biggs was the only one that Cloud was talking to. I've never played the reunion mod, but it sounds like it was an attempt at fixing the notoriously bad translation issues in the original game.

 

[ForceStealer]

It retranslated the whole game pretty much. But it's very rare that Japanese specifies plurality, so you'd have a very hard time proving whether Cloud was using plural or not. But given that he's working for a group, not caring about any of their names is perfectly reasonable supposition.

And we're familiar with the mods' creator. He claims EVERYTHING he does was the 'original intent', quite dubiously.

 

[Jessie Rito]

...And the cycle of conflict continues.

.....but honestly, I really do think that Wedge and Cloud had more meaningful interactions than Jessie and Cloud did, and I think it's cute. If Wedge was a girl, (or a very attractive guy) people might actually ship CloudxWedge lolololol

Well he does have a heart of gold

 

[Jairus]

You're assuming Cloud's referring to the whole group, Force, but he's only responding to one person, who was trying to introduce himself, which is the very topic of Cloud's response. And you still haven't answered how Cloud knew Wedge's and Jessie's names when they never introduced themselves.

 

[Littlewing]

Frodo Baggins!

 

[Jessie Rito]

You're assuming Cloud's referring to the whole group, Force, but he's only responding to one person. And you still haven't answered how Cloud knew Wedge's and Jessie's names when they never introduced themselves.

Biggs:" hold it JESSIE"

 

[Odysseus]

Cloud in tactics quotes that line, except there it's just "I don't care about names."

 

[ForceStealer]

How does he know Biggs' name when he didn't let him finish the introduction? He just heard them each use one another's names.

And you know...I don't actually recall Cloud ever using Jessie's name, to be honest, lol.

 

[Jairus]

I thought he did in the train if you talk to her before jumping off. And I hope he will in the remake. Also, there's still no explanation for how he knew Wedge's name. And even though Biggs said what he did, that's no guarantee Cloud was paying attention enough to notice it. If he didn't care, why would he?

And wasn't Tactics another badly-translated game?