Jessie, Biggs, and Wedge's Roles in the Remake Thread

[Rydeen]

How does having a crush without the desire for a long term relationship automatically make someone shallow...?

 

[Jairus]

Regardless, Jessie's character doesn't convey that sort of attitude.

 

[Jairus]

How does having a crush without the desire for a long term relationship automatically make someone shallow...?

That's not what he's saying, though. He's saying her interest was only physical, which I don't believe is the case. And she's definitely interested in being with him, otherwise she wouldn't have asked if he and Tifa were close.

 

[Tetsujin]

Regardless, Jessie's character doesn't convey that sort of attitude.

She also doesn't not convey that attitude

 

[Odysseus]

I dunno, in the original she comes off as pretty shy. She does seem more forward in the remake though.

 

[Sasseli]

I don't think Jessie's feelings were just physical attraction, either. Still, it would be disgustingly cheesy and simply unfit to the situation and the game if she "kissed him goodbye" and died, all the while lying in his arms. No, just no. Plus, that would only add to Cloud's trauma and, in my opinion, would lessen the impact of Zack's death, which will inevitably be shown later in the remake, and Aerith's death, if there already was such a tragic death right in front of Cloud's eyes. But that might just be me.
I doubt they'll even be present when the Avalanche trio pass away.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I have no stake in whether Jessie enjoys casual sex or not.
However, I find it a bit odd that people seem to think there is a "type" that is "up for it". The fact is, people are way more extraordinarily unpredictable than we all assume.
I don't see what is shallow or selfish about two people having a mutually consensual good time and then going their separate ways.
Anyway, if it's not plot-relevant, the question of someone's attitude to casual sex is not going to arise, is it?

 

[Jairus]

I don't think Jessie's feelings were just physical attraction, either. Still, it would be disgustingly cheesy and simply unfit to the situation and the game if she "kissed him goodbye" and died, all the while lying in his arms. No, just no. Plus, that would only add to Cloud's trauma and, in my opinion, would lessen the impact of Zack's death, which will inevitably be shown later in the remake, and Aerith's death, if there already was such a tragic death right in front of Cloud's eyes. But that might just be me.
I doubt they'll even be present when the Avalanche trio pass away.

You don't know that it would do that, you're only guessing. You can't say it would be unfit or cheesy because you haven't seen firsthand how it would be done. That can only be determined after the fact. And Zack's death has already happened, it's impact can't be lessened. Those others deaths are in separate games anyway, and people can lose more than one or two people they care about in a story and it still be effectively done. The trio's deaths are going to happen, and I'm sure Cloud will see them all since they're likely to happen during the battle when Cloud catches up to them in the pillar. SE isn't not going to take advantage of the new tech and storytelling methods to make these deaths affect him and influence his growth as a character. It seems that by your reasoning and that of others, stories must only be allowed to kill one or two characters only and never more than that.

 

[Jairus]

I have no stake in whether Jessie enjoys casual sex or not.
However, I find it a bit odd that people seem to think there is a "type" that is "up for it". The fact is, people are way more extraordinarily unpredictable than we all assume.
I don't see what is shallow or selfish about two people having a mutually consensual good time and then going their separate ways.
Anyway, if it's not plot-relevant, the question of someone's attitude to casual sex is not going to arise, is it?

Because some people believe it should be about more than that, and that not everyone sees it the way you and Tets do.

 

[Erotic Materia]

I don't see what is shallow or selfish about two people having a mutually consensual good time and then going their separate ways.

Spoiler: Hey there

 

[Erotic Materia]

I never said I wanted everyone to agree with me. I don't expect that. And you trying to tell me what you think I want doesn't help matters, either.

"I Never Said" could be your tagline by this point.

Anyway, why don't you clear this up for me, because I'm so fucking tired of this BS. If you could just address these items line by line, that would be great.

1 - Since you never said a lot of stuff, can you just give a short, simple, and summarized version of what it is you are trying to say? (You know, so we stop putting words in your mouth)
2 - If I read #1, understand it, and disagree with it, is that acceptable? (This can probably just be a simple "yes" or "no")
3 - If you answered "no" to #2, why? If you answered "yes", then we're all done here! Yay!
4 - If #2 is "no", that's a direct contradiction to "I never said I wanted everyone to agree with me. I don't expect that."
5 - Glob forgive me for getting back into this nonsense.

 

[Sasseli]

But I do know it'd be cheesy. It's the only way it could be IMHO. Tear-jerking and cheesy. To me it wouldn't only lessen the impact of the other shown deaths (and, no, story-telling wise, Zack's death didn't already happen, because we don't even know him yet), but also Jessie's, because I couldn't help but face-palm if SE suddenly pulled off something out-of-place like that. It'd be extremely irritating to me. Extremely.
Of course, you're entitled to your opinion, as everyone is. It's just not my cup of tea.

 

[Rydeen]

Why is it so important for people to validate your headcanons anyway? You're a writer and already write your own stories, and people like them. They just don't see the canon the exact same way you do.

 

[Erotic Materia]

Of course, you're entitled to your opinion, as everyone is. It's just not my cup of tea.

Boy, that is a refreshing bit of discourse right there.

 

[Sasseli]

I know, right!
Just like all other posts in this thread.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Sasseli, may I compliment you on your excellent taste in gifs?
@ Jairus, if people who believe sex should be about more than a good time were to have casual sex, then that would be shallow and hypocritical, but if that's not a person's belief system, then they shouldn't be judged as if it were.
To be honest I personally wouldn't characterise Jessie as someone who felt comfortable with that kind of thing. Nevertheless, if a fic writer author wrote her that way, I wouldn't feel that she was wildly out of character either.

 

[Odysseus]

This is quite a topic we've gotten on.

 

[Sasseli]

Licorice, of course you may.
I post so rarely here, but thanks to this thread, my flame has sparked (is that proper English? I don't have a clue! ). I don't know if that's sad or not, though...

 

[Keveh Kins]

This is quite a topic we've gotten on.

This is why I love TLS

There's not a single rabbit hole that will go unexplored when it comes to this game, and it's awesome

 

[Jairus]

EM:

1 - To answer your question, I'll again quote from MelodicEnigma:

I for one believe there are a myriad of ways they could express what could be a simply explicit or subtextual acknowledgment of some form of mutual attraction between the two without it being such a conflict to either of their character/storytelling.

There's definitely room for more expression with, yes, Cloud being able to reciprocate in some way that wouldn't tear down the very fabric of his storytelling.

2 - Yes, as long as it's done without snidiness or ridicule. For the most part, people here have been pretty good about it, but there have been some instances, and that only makes me dig in more when that happens.

You already provided part of an example that could work, EM - that deathbed confession you mentioned. And I added an example on top of that of how what ME and I are saying could possibly work: Cloud holding her for a moment after hearing her confession without necessarily saying a thing, or he could take her hand for a moment, again without necessarily saying anything. Just some small thing like that to acknowledge and validate her feelings.

I'm not trying to get people to validate my headcanon, Ry. I just want something like what I said above.

Sass, you only think it would be cheesy. But without seeing exactly how it plays out - dialogue (if any) and every other part of that moment - one can't be entirely sure. Was the end of Dick Tracy cheesy when Breathless kissed Tracy before she died? I never felt that way.

 

[Kai Schulen]

A love confession from Jessie when she's dying is a bit...I don't know how else to say it, but it would be a downgrade from her death in OG. What I liked most about her death in the OG is that when you talk to her for the last time, and Cloud picks the "Don't say 'last'" option she says this:

That's... all right...
Because... of our actions... many...... people died...... this probably...... is our punishment...

Her final words says a lot about Jessie, even though we knew her for about an hour or so and know nothing about her past or motivation: she believes that fighting against Shinra is the right thing to do, but she regrets hurting a bunch of innocent people in AVALANCHE's war VS Shinra. She was an idealist who regrets using the wrong means to justify the end that she was fighting for.

A dying love confession...doesn't really add on to that. If anything, it just kinda cheapens her regret for involving so many innocent people in AVALANCHE's terrorism if she also said something like "Cloud, I really liked you" because regretting to confess your feelings for a crush does not have the same gravitas as regretting your terrorist actions that involved the lives of innocents, unless you're a dystopian YA novel heroine.

I think the only time a dying love confession would hold the same gravitas as a dying regret of killing a bunch of innocent people would be if the dying person and the person they were confessing to were like star crossed lovers: like if Jessie was an AVALANCHE terrorist, and Cloud was an actual SOLDIER working for Shinra trying to stop AVALANCHE, but they fell in love somehow, had a conflict of interest (for love, or for duty kinda deal) and one of them was forced to kill the other or something.

Kinda off topic, but when I really think about it...out of the AVALANCHE trio, I really think that Cloud and Wedge had more meaningful interactions than Cloud and Jessie did, so...CloudxWedge, anyone? Or is it because Wedge is not conventionally attractive that no one would ship it?

 

[Jairus]

Maybe it can come up at a different point, then, prior to that. I just don't think her feelings should be ignored or forgotten, is all. They're part of her character. But remember, she also said she was glad to see Cloud again, so he was on her mind as well as what she'd done. Dying has a way of forcing things out of you that you wouldn't otherwise say.

 

[Kai Schulen]

All 3 members of the AVALANCHE trio were glad/surprised to see Cloud in their final moments, because the last time that they saw Cloud was when they launched an attack on the Sector 5 Mako Reactor -- they probably thought that Cloud either died in the fall or that he left AVALANCHE and went back to Shinra and weren't expecting to see him again, fighting for AVALANCHE. After all, despite all the dialogue choices Cloud can pick, the trio's impression of Cloud was that he was in it for the money, not for the ideals.

I suppose you could interpret Jessie being glad to see Cloud as something romantic, but that's your right to think so.

Honestly, rather than Jessie falling in love with Cloud, I'd rather have this kind of scenario where Jessie thinks Cloud is attractive, but then he does something or says something that kills her attraction for Cloud and she's like "Tifa, what the hell do you see in this jackass?" and Tifa's like "He's-- I-- uh-- ...he's nice when you really get to know him" and Jessie's like "SMH, there's no accounting for taste."

 

[Jairus]

Her feelings are a canon part of her character and shouldn't be forgotten or unaddressed. And while they're all glad to see him, you can't ignore her feelings adding an additional layer to that.

 

[Kai Schulen]

...And the cycle of conflict continues.

.....but honestly, I really do think that Wedge and Cloud had more meaningful interactions than Jessie and Cloud did, and I think it's cute. If Wedge was a girl, (or a very attractive guy) people might actually ship CloudxWedge lolololol