Kitase would consider FFVII-2

[TheEdgeofDespair]

Personally, I think that the problem that Square Enix has encountered thus far in creating the Compilation is that they have continually fallen into the trap of trying too hard to replicate the exact setup of FFVII, without realizing what truly made the original great.

Almost every addition to the Compilation has ultimately adopted the standard plot device of a world shattering cataclysm (I.E. Omega WEAPON, Geostigma, etc) forcing AVALANCHE/WRO to once more seek out the source of the incoming disaster (I.E. Sephiroth/Jenova, Deepground, etc) and destroy it, culminating in another battle for Gaia's survival.

Simply put, FFVII perfected this plot structure the first time around; it brought meaning and dramatic weight to the fall of Meteor in characterizing the world of Gaia, getting the player emotionally invested in the world's inhabitants and sympathetic to their plights, and adding depth to the protagonists through an understanding of their pasts, inner-demons, desires, fears, and character flaws.

The Compilation entries seem to have missed the point in that they replicate the basic elements of the original's plot structure, yet they do next to nothing to expound upon the individual character arcs of the protagonists or to make us relate to the turmoil faced by the world.

I think that, if Square Enix is truly interested in making a worthy FFVII sequel, they should cease to focus on pointless fan-service, flashy visual displays, and ill-fated attempts to replicate the epic feeling of the original game; instead, they should focus on exploring and expounding upon the interrelationships and individual character arcs of FFVII's main characters, as well as giving the player free-range to explore and become part of Gaia.

Character interactions should not serve only to drive the plot forward to the next battle scene and locations should not serve as mere throwbacks to original game or as lifeless, flashy set pieces for the character to gawk at; they should serve to give dimension and emotional depth to the characters, to provide meaning and player investment to the focus of the plot, and to give life to the world and, subsequently, gameplay immersion to the player. Square Enix needs to be reminded of this desperately.

 

[Octo]

I pretty much agree with all of that, but I dont think the cataclysm has to be at the expense of character development. As I've said earlier in this thread, its difficult to concieve of how a sequel would work without some sort of major threat.

But don't listen to me, because I think the sequel should be a H-game from Elena's point of view

 

[AerithLives]

I thought i read something a while back about how remaking FF7 would be near impossible. They mentioned how long it would take to make. Also they would have to make it on 3 blu ray cd's like with the original. I am pretty sure it has been dismissed. I would prefer a sequel anyway. I would love to see some Advent Children style fighting in a Bayonetta/Devil May Cry type of game.

 

[Tetsujin]

I thought i read something a while back about how remaking FF7 would be near impossible. They mentioned how long it would take to make. Also they would have to make it on 3 blu ray cd's like with the original.

No offense but that's bullshit.

Whatever they said about a remake taking a bazillion years to make was them being full of shit.

 

[Ghost X]

@TheEdgeOfDespair: I agree almost entirely with the point you make. Sequels that try to be like the original never succeed. I challenge anyone to name a successful sequel that has tried this formula. If they kept with the whole FFVII mythos, but created an entirely new story with new characters and new enemies pretty much unrelated to what happened in the first game, that'd be good. Somewhat like what they have done with the Ivalice Alliance. In one's exploration of the game, you might find what happened to your favourite character or whatever, or find something that alluded to their existence, but nothing beyond that.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

On the subject of continually rehashing the "world threatening cataclysm" plot, didn't Rufus pretty much hang a lampshade on that concept back in AC?

Rufus: The nightmare returns... the Lifestream courses through our planet back and forth across the borders of life and death. If that cycle is the very truth of life, then history, too, will inevitably repeat itself.

 

[AerithLives]

No offense but that's bullshit.

Whatever they said about a remake taking a bazillion years to make was them being full of shit.

It might be balls. Its definatly what i read though. They said something along the lines of it taking about 6 years to make. Let me see if i can find the link..it was so long ago though,

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/for...I-Remake-Pushed-Even-Further-From-Possibility

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/art...nts-The-Final-Fantasy-VII-Remake-is-a-Fantasy

Ah ha. This isnt the thing i read but this pretty much supports what i am saying. Ive had a lot to drink so i am in a lazy mood.

 

[Tetsujin]

I know it's what they said, but they're still full of shit.

 

[Super Mario]

Bet you 5 bucks it'll take the EA team that made Mass Effect, a can of beers for each team, alot of patience in the oscar award winning directorial department, a good writer and a shit ton of polygons to remake the game in 3 years or 2. Square Enix can't top that man.

 

[MaliciousMisery]

What gets me is this:



Opposed to how they've thrown FF XIII-2 together in a ridiculously short amount of time?

BUT THAT'S JUST IT. They have zero problems with making sequels to games people were originally meh on, but we've been asking for YEARS for remakes, remasters, hell, I'd even be content with them wrapping up FFVII, even the LTD! Okay fuck, I don't even care if it's not in my favor! Or never wrapped up I JUST WANT THEM TO FINISH WHAT THEY START.

Think about it. FFXIII was released:

Some people: It sucks
Most people: Meh
Other people: Well....I guess it was kind of good?

Yet after what, a year? FFXIII-2 is already being spit out with what looks like even shittier characters! If I have to hear anymore bullshit about EVERY. SINGLE. PERSON. In SE is like: OMG YAAAA WE'D LOVE TO DO IT........but we have no plans........WELL WHY THE FUCK NOT? What is holding them back? Money? Time? Both? WHAAAAATTTT?????

 

[Octo]

BUT THAT'S JUST IT. They have zero problems with making sequels to games people were originally meh on, but we've been asking for YEARS for remakes, remasters, hell, I'd even be content with them wrapping up FFVII, even the LTD! Okay fuck, I don't even care if it's not in my favor! Or never wrapped up I JUST WANT THEM TO FINISH WHAT THEY START.

Think about it. FFXIII was released:

Some people: It sucks
Most people: Meh
Other people: Well....I guess it was kind of good?

Yet after what, a year? FFXIII-2 is already being spit out with what looks like even shittier characters! If I have to hear anymore bullshit about EVERY. SINGLE. PERSON. In SE is like: OMG YAAAA WE'D LOVE TO DO IT........but we have no plans........WELL WHY THE FUCK NOT? What is holding them back? Money? Time? Both? WHAAAAATTTT?????

I like you. I think we should all organise a trip to SE hq with placards and chanting and maybe a little bit of self-immolation

Personally I don't think the compliation needs to be finished....what real loose ends are there? Genesis? Who gives a shit? And the LTD will never be resolved even if they had a Cloud and Tifa having graphic sex and getting matching tattoos and getting married and having a baby and shopping for soft furnishings together.

A remake with good graphics, proper translation and a few extra sidequests thrown in would be the best we could hope for. I don't even trust them to get that right. *epic sighhhhhhhh*

 

[Turk 0]

WELL WHY THE FUCK NOT? What is holding them back? Money? Time? Both? WHAAAAATTTT?????

Fear.

I am entirely sold on the idea that they are simply too scared. They know that they no longer have the creative touch they once did, and are terrified of the negative response a sub-par VII remake would result in.

However...That wouldn't be a problem if they simply started to try again, and actually put their all into their work.

 

[Shademp]

Square Enix is a company that can't handle large-scale productions. FFXIII cost way more money than it should have, with a lengthy pre-production phase where almost nothing happened. Same thing is happening with FFXIII Versus except many times worse. Their staff can't communicate and the developers can't form a common vision quickly enough.

Hence why the company makes so many handheld games. Smaller budget, smaller staff, easier to make the game.
Heck, the last word we heard on the Compilation was when Tabata, the director of Crisis Core, said on the "3rd Birthday" twitter that if he was to make something for the Nintendo 3DS it would be a Before Crisis remake.

This has all been said before but the point is that an FFVII title that is either a remake of the original or the title to finish the Compilation, would be a large-scale title.
I can only hope not even Square Enix would be so disrespectful to the series that they ended a bigger story arc with a simple handheld game. Parasite Eve 3 does not count, because from the little I know about the series that title did not try to end the "Compilation of Parasite Eve".

They are able to make a game like FFXIII-2 fast now because they already have models, designs and are now used to their engine Crystal Tools. An FFVII title using that engine may be more promising than FFXIII, but they still need to improve how they make games.

Unless Square becomes the new giant in superb game developing an FFVII remake will not happen. But who knows, maybe the experience gained from FFXIII and its sequel, coupled with if the sales for the sequel are good, *might* lead to an FFVII game using that engine. They might grow some fake balls simply because they are able to automize their game developing more. But that's just my guess.

Sources:
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/featu...ng-of-final-fantasy-xiii.aspx?PostPageIndex=2

http://www.3dsbuzz.com/before-crisis-final-fantasy-vii-on-3ds/

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/...Scenes_of_Square_Enixs_Final_Fantasy_XIII.php

Also, they are full of bullshit. Just take this excerpt from an interview:
Game Developer Magazine: Final Fantasy XIII was unveiled over three years before its actual release. Is that too long to keep fans waiting, or is it the right amount of time to build up excitement for the title?
Yoshinori Kitase: It’s a bit of both. We definitely don’t enjoy making our fans wait, but felt it was necessary to give players ample time to get to know the characters and the world. Lightning was probably the character that became most recognizable prior to the game’s launch.

Kitase, just... I f*cking hate you.

Personally I don't think the compliation needs to be finished....what real loose ends are there? Genesis? Who gives a shit?

Agreed. There are some questions yes, but I already know with 99% certainty that the answers will be boring and uninteresting at best. Because of this I'd rather not see another addition in the Compilation. This is Square we are talking about. They couldn't write a deep, emotionally envoking story for Dissidia which combines CHARACTERS FROM THROUGHOUT THE FF MULTIVERSE. The story is like something from a bland fan fiction and EVERY hero has amnesia. Just great. Oh well, I'll give Dissidia a plus for having great gameplay.

 

[Roger]

They already had models? For who? Team Nora? Whoodiefreakingdoo.

 

[Alex Strife]

And regular people in the towns, and I think many scenarios, and I defend even Noel's model was probably thought of, so they only needed to "create" him.

They said they have enough material to make a second game. I'm CONVINCED that is the reason we are seeing a second game, now. I don't doubt it one bit. If it took them so long to create XIII, I don't buy it'd take them less than half that time to create another game. So I'll say they used a lot of "spare material".

 

[Geostigma]

They already had models? For who? Team Nora? Whoodiefreakingdoo.

Well considering thats all they really had to build were models and lame landscapes a FF13-2 isnt all that hard to make.
Its not like there were towns.


Simply put, SE isnt cut out for this generation. Every generation of consoles comes around and there development time compounds itself and gets alot longer then the last. And the level of content actually lessens then deepens.

PS2 era, we saw the end of the world map. Less/Smaller towns, and the first of the Main title sequels.

PS3 Era, Still no world map. Just a lame over world. And no towns, good job SE. No towns? Save point shops dont cut it, where the fuck are my npcs?

Its normal for companies to spend alittle more time figuring out how to best make games for a new generation. But when SE can consistently spend 5 years making 1 game per generation then there doing it wrong especially when there making games that arent all that great to begin with.

Sure the battle systems are top notch. FF X-2 had an amazing battle system, but they didnt invest fuck all into a plot.
FF13, incredibly fun to play. But the plot was alittle dry, and yet again no towns.

SE is only capable of making pretty games, with no substance and with an over use of Belts of Zippers.
They arent even capable of making a remastered version of FF7, and if they attempt to it will be missing alot of content.

 

[Roger]

I thought the lame ridiculously pretty landscapes of FFXIII were what made the development time so very long.

I mean yeah, the scrapped chapters. We were gonna have several minigames at Nautilus and come back to Bodhum for one thing and maybe they fit those things in the game and were able to reuse some small bits of Lake Bresha and stuff but everything from Lightning's new time period, everything New Bodhum to say nothing of all the other Cocoon settlements, the stuff on Cocoon's shells outer surface or anything from Noel's time period and whatever, how the hell were most of these things already made?

 

[Geostigma]

Its not hard to make something new when the template is already there.

 

[Roger]

Its not hard to make something new when the template is already there.

Yet Versus is still coming out in, oh right around... NEVER.

 

[Geostigma]

which is my point exactly. a game with a prebuilt template is getting built in fraction of the time to make the original.

and a game thats original is taking half a decade to make. its easier to mke something when you can copy and paste to put it simply :p

 

[Roger]

which is my point exactly. a game with a prebuilt template is getting built in fraction of the time to make the original.

and a game thats original is taking half a decade to make. its easier to mke something when you can copy and paste to put it simply :p

What are they copy pasting? Not the enviroment, or at least not more then about 30% of it, nor the characters.

Monster design and battle system for a large part would be carried over. Is that the part of the game that takes 7 years as opposed to the rests less then 2?

 

[Geostigma]

What are they copy pasting? Not the enviroment, or at least not more then about 30% of it, nor the characters.

Pulling random percentages out of thin air, cute.

What about character development?
Ever beat a game and get all those cool extra features on game development and see all the character concepts?

For instance God of Wars Kratos had something like over a dozen possible models created for him.
Imagine, sitting there drawing up entirely a new character from scratch, new clothing, new attributes. And then getting the whole team to agree on it and say "Yeah thats the one"
Try doing that again and again for every single party member and major NPC, villain, Monster, Environment, ect.

And thats just getting it on paper and having people agree that that should be the render used for the 3d model.
Then you have to create the 3d model, have it move fluently and life like. Build its battle model ect.

Then beyond just making it look real, you have to make it feel real.
Give it personality, Attributes that make the character who they are. Give them there unique spin that reaches beyond what they simply look like.
Yet again reapply this to the rest of the party, the npc's, villains and enviroment.

Then you have the rest of the game to build, cinematics, plot, battle system, item development. Balancing (cant have OP combos )

For FF13-2 they already had everything else built, they just had to drop everything they already creatively developed into the world again.

Thats why its taking a fraction of the time, they really dont actually have to develop this game on a creative level.

 

[Roger]

Pulling random percentages out of thin air, cute.

Off course I don't know the percentages, what we do know is that this entire game revolves around time travel through multiple civilisations at various stages of development and you guys are arguing that everything of note is from the that had just the one.

What about character development?
Ever beat a game and get all those cool extra features on game development and see all the character concepts?

For instance God of Wars Kratos had something like over a dozen possible models created for him.
Imagine, sitting there drawing up entirely a new character from scratch, new clothing, new attributes. And then getting the whole team to agree on it and say "Yeah thats the one"
Try doing that again and again for every single party member and major NPC, villain, Monster, Environment, ect.

Yeah.

Which is almost what they doing for this game. Serah's new, Noel's new, Kaiah's new, Lightning's completely redesigned (Her Gestahl animations are probably still the same but whatever), Hope's is twice his old height now which means he's basically new in design. We're gonna have guest party members, most of them are gonna be new. Most of the NPC's are new, considering we only had modern Cocoon citizens last time around, which is not even remotely gonna cut it in this game.

, cinematics, plot, battle system, item development. Balancing (cant have OP combos )

None of this save the battlesystem has salvagable components from XIII,

 

[Geostigma]

Yeah.

Which is almost what they doing for this game. Serah's new, Noel's new, Kaiah's new, Lightning's completely redesigned (Her Gestahl animations are probably still the same but whatever), Hope's is twice his old height now which means he's basically new in design. We're gonna have guest party members, most of them are gonna be new. Most of the NPC's are new, considering we only had modern Cocoon citizens last time around, which is not even remotely gonna cut it in this game.

Errm Serahs not new o.O , existing character is already existing. No need to create a new character out of thin air there. Same applies to lightening and Snow, in the case of these 3 they just redesign there clothing, they dont have to design a new character from scratch.
So for sure , 2 new main character designs, personality development and thats about it.
As opposed to creating an entire games worth of new characters from scratch. Your assumption that they wont use existing elements, models and content is pretty absurd to be honest. Look at how quickly there making this game.

In fact look at any sequel that has ever been made. Once the mythos has been creating the developer can always throw you right back into the same world at a fraction of the time.

Look at how fast Naughty dog got us back in to Uncharted when making the sequel, then look back how long it took them to initially create the original. Or Kingdom Hearts, Mass Effect, Dragon age, so on and so forth.

Once the templates there they just have to fill it, and in this case all it really takes is filling it with preexisting models and giving them new clothing. Once the initial costume design is created for the populace its just a matter of mix and matching. Thats something an algorithm can handle, theres not even need for copy and pasting in that department.

None of this save the battlesystem has salvagable components from XIII,

Derp.
Its alot easier to start working on the Cinematics long before everything else when you already know what the majority of the cast looks like.

plot

Because SE is known for making sequels with a good plot, this one is already looking cliché as ever.

item development

You're retarded if you dont think there not going to use the same items again (i.e potions, veils) , and even more retarded if you dont think there going to use the same equations and stats to determine weapon/spell damage based on equipment used, thats something there definitely not going build from scratch again.