Learn to play: Pathfinder RPG

[Flintlock]

So far I only know about one bard.

 

[AvecAloes]

Alright, now that I'm on the right account here

Ok, character completed...I think. I'm a bit too tired right now to do a full write-up, but the basics: Female sorceress....actually, I might not give too much away in public. I'll send Flint a summary, but there are some things I'd rather leave for my fellow adventurers to discover as time goes on

 

[Flintlock]

Omg dupe account!!!1

I suggest we play on either Sunday or Monday. Keveh told me Mondays (and Saturdays) work best for him, but we might be able to start at a more reasonable time for us Europeans if we play on Sunday. Then again, people might have to work on Sundays as well. And I can't do this Saturday because I'm going to be playing the Game of Thrones board game... with my Pathfinder group.

If you want to take part in the introductory adventure, please let me know about your availability on this coming Sunday (16th) and Monday (17th). Or if neither of them work, tell me what would suit you better. Don't forget, the maximum party size this time is four.

 

[Kuroto]

I could join you guys if you play on Monday. I have a meeting on Monday morning so Sunday evening isn't really good for me.

I still want to create a new character if I have time. My previous character was a bit of a loner and that's not so fun to play because you tend to be quiet all the time. I want a character that's a bit more social. But creating a new character takes forever.

 

[Flintlock]

Some classes take forever to build, yes. It's mostly the ones that involve spell selection, though. Creating a human fighter takes about ten minutes.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

^^Tell me about it, although I think Sorcerers are harder then Wizards as they get a lot less spells to play with... Then again, Wizards have to plan what spells they can use daily, so it all balances out.

I'm done with all the game mechanics stuff of my character and am now just doing personal detail stuff.

Mondays are better for me then Sundays are, although my hours are always going to be funky compared to all you Europeans because I'm on the West Coast of the US.

 

[AvecAloes]

The days I'm available really depend on the time we'd be playing. This Sunday might not be good because Micah will be visiting, and Monday could only work if we started around 7PM my time (EST), and didn't go too terribly late, as I have to get up early for work on Tuesday mornings. I think Sundays would generally work best, though.

 

[Flintlock]

^ Time zones are really going to be the problem here. If we start at 19:00 your time on Monday, that's already midnight in Ireland (for Keveh) and 02:00 here in Finland (for me and Kuroto).

Obs, I didn't know you were on the west coast. This is why people should use their "Location" fields for something other than humour/theming. I think we have two options - thinking in general, not just for our first session:

1. Play earlier in the day on Sundays (or Saturdays).
2. Have separate sessions for different time zones.

Option 2 would probably require a second GM as well, since I won't be able to stay up so late once my university semester starts in a few weeks' time. It could be fun, though, like in Final Fantasy IX, where the whole roster of characters doesn't get together until the third disc. The two GMs would come up with an overarching plot together but could come up with their own storylines within it. Still, option 1 would be easier to manage if we can make it work. As long as at least three or four people are available for each session, we could imagine the characters swapping in and out, PHS style.

Since Kev is (I think) the only complete newbie here, I'd like to make sure we play the first adventure at a time that suits him. That will probably be next Monday. It's no problem to wait another week before getting started on the campaign proper.

 

[Monterosa]

Sign me up please! But I'm eight hours ahead of UTC/GMT so I'm concerned that my involvement may be difficult for everyone else. If we play on Sunday, it'll have to be after 11:00 UTC; Monday after 15:00 UTC.

 

[Keveh Kins]

Don't hold up proceedings on my account I can make most any time work if I have to and if not, plough on without me

 

[Flintlock]

It's nice of you to say that, but I don't think we're going to get everyone together for the first time anyway, so let's just do it on Monday. That seems to work for enough of us. 15:00 UTC (or later) is fine for me.

 

[Keveh Kins]

So we're defo going for Monday on this?

 

[Flintlock]

Yep. You saw my message on Facebook, didn't you?

For everyone else: so far Kev, Kuroto and Monterosa have said they can play on Monday, but there's still room for one more!

 

[Flintlock]

Since the tutorial has finished, I'm going to make a new thread for our adventure. This one can stay open for general gameplay questions.

 

[Joe]

Is it too late to get involved in this? I've never ventured into DnD at all but curiosity has been building ever-steadily for years now.

Read up on your current adventures and it sounds hilarious.

 

[Flintlock]

It's not too late! Read through the tutorial, do the homework, post your questions and observations here, and we'll help you get up to speed.

 

[Joe]

Awwwwwww right.

*research intensifies*

 

[Joe]

Le double poast.

Is there anything concrete you're enforcing on character age? I googled it and found there's a lot of complexity to min/max character age per race and how being particularly young/old can affect a variety of things. If I wanted to make my character particularly young or old are we using any set limitations?

 

[Hisako]

I'd imagine that it all comes down to the DM's decision (ie. Flint). If I had the chair I can't imagine I'd do anything more than affect certain DCs by a couple points depending on very contextual roleplaying.

 

[Flintlock]

Yeah, just do what you want. Though if you're going to be very unusually old or young, you should come up with an explanation for it.

 

[Flintlock]

Starling has been asking me some question by PM, but I thought they might help other players too, so (with her permission) I'm posting them here to continue the conversation.

I've made some progress creating my character, but I realize I don't know which method everyone else used to calculate their ability scores. I used classic and got 15, 16, 7, 14 and 9. I figured since half-elfs can add +2 to any stat, I'd use it to make the 7 another 9 so my lowest stats won't be that bad to start. I'm having a bit of trouble finding all the spells, particularly the level 0 ones that get mentioned from time to time.

As I mentioned in my tutorial, we're using the classic method, so those scores are fine. As for turning your 7 into a 9, I can see why you'd want to do that, but it probably isn't a good idea.

I know you're interested in multiclassing, but ask yourself, what can you gain from taking cleric levels that you can't gain from druid levels? Druids already gain access to all the main healing spells (the list is on this page). The danger with multiclassing is that you end up spreading yourself too thin - in a party of many talents, it's better to be really good at one thing than quite good at two or more things.

If you have a story hook for your character that relies on them multiclassing, then by all means, go for it, but if you're only doing it for gameplay reasons, I honestly wouldn't bother.

Anyway, if you do want to play a druid/cleric, then Int isn't really important to either class, so you won't be losing much (except a couple of skill ranks per level, which can be mitigated by the favored class bonus) by putting that 7 to Int and turning your 15 into a 17 or your 16 into an 18 for something you really do need, like Wis.

I found 5 or so different spell pages on that site, none of which were that one. It gets rather confusing when you're not used to navigating it. What do the schools matter for? I don't really see any mention of restrictions on those spell sheets like the domain and alignment info suggested there would be, but that might be from not being that far into the list yet.

There's more information on Arcane Schools on the wizard page. I know the site can be difficult to navigate, but don't be afraid to use its search function!

Basically, a wizard has to choose which school to specialise in (if any), and which schools to oppose. This grants them various benefits in their chosen school. It doesn't really matter very much for other classes, except for things like the Spell Focus feat, which makes saving throws against the spells you cast from a particular school more difficult for your opponents.

I figured I'd probably be better off with higher hp than 7 to start, considering what happened in the previous session. I got the impression high Dex would also benefit my character because of the armour restrictions and how armour doesn't seem to count in animal form. All the stats are clearly important in their own way so it's a matter of figuring out which ones are the least important for my character, since Wis and Cha seem to be the more important ones in this case.

HP is always good. If you're worried about it, you can make sure you have a positive Con modifier, take the bonus HP from your favored class, or take the Toughness feat.

I figured multiclassing would be useful to either complement your main abilities or help balance your character out to avoid issues resulting from overspecialization. As long as I stick with classes that use stats I have decent numbers in and keep my main class well levelled, I figure it could work. I wanted to get the gameplay stuff sorted out before putting that much thought into the character's personality, as my main focus right now is to make a character I'll enjoy playing as from a gameplay aspect. One of the reasons I'm fond of the druid class is the neutrality though, which I feel suits me. I haven't quite decided which neutral I'm gonna go for but I've narrowed it down to either chaotic neutral, neutral good or true neutral.

As I said, you'll be a much more powerful character if you specialise in one thing rather than many. Your concern about overspecialisation would be more valid if you were expecting to be on your own for much of the adventure, but since there are eight other characters available to partner you (of which you'll be playing with up to four in any given session), I really wouldn't worry about it.

Think of it this way: A level 20 wizard would completely and utterly annihilate a party of 20 level 1 characters, every single time. The level 1 characters wouldn't even be able to hit him. By specialising, you're gaining more powerful abilities, while by diversifying, you're only gaining more abilities. I would have thought the former would be more enjoyable, but I won't stop you from making your own decision.

As for what I'd get from cleric I wouldn't get from druid, selecting a nature deity could give me another weapon proficiency and the channel energy ability could be useful as another healing option. Now that I have the proper spell list, I'd have to look into it some more to be sure. The only info I found on multiclassing was the one paragraph in the class page.

Channel energy is certainly a useful ability to have, but you can always take weapon proficiency as a feat.

Judging by the character sheet, are we limited to 5 classes with only 3 for magic? Because the half-elf page says I get access to a feat that makes all my classes favoured once I reach level 5, with bonuses retroactively added to levels that didn't get favoured bonuses yet. This of course requires the starting trait that gives me 2 favoured classes to begin with.

You can have as many classes as you like. If they don't fit onto the character sheet, we'll improvise. But even if you decide to multiclass after reading my above answer, then I strongly recommend sticking to two or three classes at the most.

Edit: just for clarity, you get all of the racial traits listed on the races page for your chosen race, so you don't have to pick and choose.

Even if I decide not to go for cleric, it seems like a waste not to use the multitalented feat to favour 2 classes from the start, even if the other class is more of something to fall back on if I find myself in a situation my druid abilities aren't suited for. I guess I have a hard time letting go of possible options because I feel like I have more freedom of choice with versatility. It's not like I'm obligated to alternate levelling classes evenly, so I could focus on 1 and add to another when I feel like it's a good time for that, especially since the levels seem to cap at 20.

That is definitely the way to go. A lot of players will end up with something like sorcerer 17 / paladin 3, strongly preferring one class while still gaining the benefits of a second.

Another thing I need clarification on is that it says druids can use nature bond either to have an animal companion or take on 2 clerical domains. If I go with the clerical domains but also level as a cleric, would that give me 4? I'm considering going for the animal companion and getting the clerical domains from cleric.

I think you can choose two domains for the purposes of your druid abilities and two for the purposes of your cleric abilities; you could pick the same two domains for each class or different domains, whatever you prefer.

Wouldn't picking the same 2 clerical domains from 2 sources be redundant? I've been doing some more reading and available domains from one class aren't necessarily the same as the ones available from another. I'm still unsure whether to go for domains or an animal companion. If I go for the animal companion instead, I'd have to know where the animal companion's stats go. Is that what the NPC tab is for?

No, it wouldn't be redundant. Perhaps my previous answer wasn't very clear, so here's an example.

Imagine your character is druid 3 / cleric 1, with druid domains of Air and Fire, and cleric domains of Earth and Water. Since druids can cast level 2 druid spells at level 3, your character would be able to prepare an extra spell from the druid spell list with the Air or Fire domain for levels 1 and 2. Clerics can only cast level 1 (and 0) spells at level 1, so your character would be able to prepare an extra spell from the cleric spell list with the Earth or Water domain for level 1 only. You might go with something like this:

Level 1: bonus Air spell (druid), bonus Earth spell (cleric)
Level 2: bonus Fire spell (druid)

If, instead, your cleric had also chosen Air and Fire, you'd be able to prepare an extra spell with one of those domains at level 1 in addition to the level 1 bonus spell you already get as a druid, giving you something like this:

Level 1: bonus Air spell (druid), bonus Air spell (cleric)
Level 2: bonus Fire spell (druid)

As for animal companions, I've been wondering the same thing myself, and I think we're going to end up having to make separate character sheets for them.

For the clerical stuff it's not really clear on deity options besides concepts being valid so I'm going to need help getting that to mesh with the domains and character alignment I settle on.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this, but it sounds like we can look at it together later on.

From the cleric page:

Domains: A cleric's deity influences her alignment, what magic she can perform, her values, and how others see her. A cleric chooses two domains from among those belonging to her deity. A cleric can select an alignment domain (Chaos, Evil, Good, or Law) only if her alignment matches that domain. If a cleric is not devoted to a particular deity, she still selects two domains to represent her spiritual inclinations and abilities (subject to GM approval). The restriction on alignment domains still applies.

Each domain grants a number of domain powers, dependent upon the level of the cleric, as well as a number of bonus spells. A cleric gains one domain spell slot for each level of cleric spell she can cast, from 1st on up. Each day, a cleric can prepare one of the spells from her two domains in that slot. If a domain spell is not on the cleric spell list, a cleric can prepare it only in her domain spell slot. Domain spells cannot be used to cast spells spontaneously.

In addition, a cleric gains the listed powers from both of her domains, if she is of a high enough level. Unless otherwise noted, using a domain power is a standard action. Cleric domains are listed at the end of this class entry.

Clerics select their domains at lvl 1, while druids start with nature bond, which allows them to do the same if they don't go for the animal companion. This means it's something that needs to be cleared up pretty early on if I go that route.

To clarify, I understand what domains and deities are, I just didn't get what you meant by "it's not really clear on deity options besides concepts being valid". I suppose by "it" you meant "the rulebook". A list of deities is one of the things sorely missing from the rulebook - I'm not really sure why - but there's plenty of information online. I suggest picking from this list.

Does Sylvan take up a language slot for druids? Druidic is specifically noted as a bonus language, while half-elfs start with Common and Elven.

The druid page says this:

Bonus Languages: A druid's bonus language options include Sylvan, the language of woodland creatures. This choice is in addition to the bonus languages available to the character because of her race.

A druid also knows Druidic, a secret language known only to druids, which she learns upon becoming a 1st-level druid. Druidic is a free language for a druid; that is, she knows it in addition to her regular allotment of languages and it doesn't take up a language slot. Druids are forbidden to teach this language to nondruids.

Therefore, you get Druidic for free, in additional to your racial languages (Common and Elven). If you have an Int score of 12 of higher (giving you a positive Int modifier), or if you put a skill rank into Linguistics, you can learn another language on top of that, and you can choose Sylvan if you wish. Not every class/race can choose Sylvan - dwarves can't, for example.

So my starting languages are Common, Elven and Druidic, with Sylvan as an option if I have the means of adding another language. If I don't add it on start, is there a way to add it later? How useful are the various languages? Sylvan, as the language of animals, seems like it'd be pretty useful for anyone who deals with animals a lot, such as druids.

That's right. As I mention in the other thread's house rules section, I don't mind if you want to defer your bonus language selection until a later point when you know what you might need for this adventure. Aside from that, you can always gain a new language by putting a rank into the Linguistics skill or by increasing your Int modifier (characters can level up individual ability scores by one point each time at levels 4, 8, 12, 16 and 20).

Sylvan doesn't let you universally talk to animals, however. Well, I suppose you can talk to them, but they won't talk back. The linguistics page says that it's the language of "centaurs, fey creatures, plant creatures, [and] unicorns".

I'm not sure how much you'll need languages in this adventure, or indeed which languages you'll need. I've only read the next couple of sessions' worth of material, so it could well be that you end up going to a land of fey creatures much later on - who knows? I wouldn't prioritise learning extra languages, though; even if you are unable to speak with a particular creature, it's not going to be a dead end for your party. Kuroto's character, Silver, already has a spell that lets her comprehend other languages, which is useful in emergencies.

 

[Starling]

If the class page doesn't say anything about feats, it's the standard 1 per level right?

You can have as many classes as you like. If they don't fit onto the character sheet, we'll improvise. But even if you decide to multiclass after reading my above answer, then I strongly recommend sticking to two or three classes at the most.

Edit: just for clarity, you get all of the racial traits listed on the races page for your chosen race, so you don't have to pick and choose.

Some of the trait options I found replaced other traits if chosen, as well as affected which racial feats I could get due to prerequisites. For example, I have to pick between Elven Spirit and Human Spirit, as they're mutually exclusive. I'm not seeing any info on whether we get all the racial feats we have the prerequisites for or if there are limitations like the standard ones.

If I understand the way spells work, classes have a max number of spells the class can use in a particular level based on the level and relevant modifier. While Cleric and Druid do have a fair bit of overlap in 0-spells, both can only know a max of 4 of that level, which is less than the total of spells they have in common, let alone the ones that one has but the other doesn't. Level 1 spells have considerably less overlap so while I haven't finished comparing the rest of the spell list, it seems multiclassing would allow me to broaden my spell list beyond the limit I'd have with just 1. I could even double my hp if I took a level in Cleric as my second and then went back to levelling Druid, since the hp offered by classes seem to stack. Do our characters know all spells available to their class and level or only as many as they can prepare? If the former, they'd only be bale to use the ones they prepped for the day, of course but would be able to prep different ones on different days, while the latter would be between prepping one of each or prepping more than one of a particular spell and none of another.

I'm still picking out spells, which really is hell for the indecisive.

For the deity thing, I only see 2 options that look viable for my character besides some non-personified aspect of nature, in which case we'd have to discuss applicable domains. I'm probably going to PM you about it later once I've worked out the other stuff.

Do you think we should start putting up abridged versions of our Character sheets with whatever info we want others to know for ease of reference?

 

[Flintlock]

If the class page doesn't say anything about feats, it's the standard 1 per level right?

The classes page has the information you're looking for: you get a new feat at every odd-numbered level.

Some of the trait options I found replaced other traits if chosen, as well as affected which racial feats I could get due to prerequisites. For example, I have to pick between Elven Spirit and Human Spirit, as they're mutually exclusive. I'm not seeing any info on whether we get all the racial feats we have the prerequisites for or if there are limitations like the standard ones.

Ah, you're looking at Advanced Race Guide stuff, which I'm not familiar with. I'm afraid that if you want information on that, you're going to have to find it yourself.

If I understand the way spells work, classes have a max number of spells the class can use in a particular level based on the level and relevant modifier. While Cleric and Druid do have a fair bit of overlap in 0-spells, both can only know a max of 4 of that level, which is less than the total of spells they have in common, let alone the ones that one has but the other doesn't. Level 1 spells have considerably less overlap so while I haven't finished comparing the rest of the spell list, it seems multiclassing would allow me to broaden my spell list beyond the limit I'd have with just 1.

That's true, but there's only so much you can do with level 0 and 1 spells. I'd rather have access to higher level spells earlier, but you can do as you please.

I could even double my hp if I took a level in Cleric as my second and then went back to levelling Druid, since the hp offered by classes seem to stack.

I didn't really explain levelling up in the tutorial, since I wanted to keep it short. The way you get HP in Pathfinder is through "hit dice". Different classes have different hit dice, ranging from d6 for sorcerers and wizards to d12 for barbarians. At your first level, you get the maximum HP from your hit die, so you would start with 8 HP (plus bonuses) as a druid, since druids have d8. When you level up, however, you don't add another 8 HP automatically; you roll d8 and add the result. So at level 2, you could have anywhere between 9 and 16 HP. If you multiclass, you'll roll the hit die from your new class and add that instead. As it happens, clerics have d8 as well, so you won't be gaining or sacrificing any HP.

Do our characters know all spells available to their class and level or only as many as they can prepare? If the former, they'd only be bale to use the ones they prepped for the day, of course but would be able to prep different ones on different days, while the latter would be between prepping one of each or prepping more than one of a particular spell and none of another.

It varies by class. Druids and clerics know all the spells on their respective spell lists, and simply have to choose which ones to prepare in advance. Wizards have to learn new spells and copy them into their spellbooks. Sorcerers pick new spells when they level up and can't readily change them.

If you have, for example, two level 1 spell slots available, you can either prepare two different spells (which can be cast once each) or the same spell twice (allowing you to cast it twice).

Do you think we should start putting up abridged versions of our Character sheets with whatever info we want others to know for ease of reference?

Everyone is free to share as much or as little information as they wish.

 

[Starling]

If the class page doesn't say anything about feats, it's the standard 1 per level right?

The classes page has the information you're looking for: you get a new feat at every odd-numbered level.

Some of the trait options I found replaced other traits if chosen, as well as affected which racial feats I could get due to prerequisites. For example, I have to pick between Elven Spirit and Human Spirit, as they're mutually exclusive. I'm not seeing any info on whether we get all the racial feats we have the prerequisites for or if there are limitations like the standard ones.

Ah, you're looking at Advanced Race Guide stuff, which I'm not familiar with. I'm afraid that if you want information on that, you're going to have to find it yourself.

It's on the Half-Elf page, before the item section. If class levels and bonus feats offered by racial or class traits are the only way to get feats, then that would mean race-specific feats are basically just extra options when selecting feats normally correct?

 

[Flintlock]

It's on the Half-Elf page, before the item section. If class levels and bonus feats offered by racial or class traits are the only way to get feats, then that would mean race-specific feats are basically just extra options when selecting feats normally correct?

Look at the left-hand side of that page (or the URL) and you'll see that it's part of the "Advanced Race Guide" section. We're playing with the Core Rulebook, but I've said that players are welcome to bring in elements from the other books if they want to. I assume you do, but I just thought I'd make sure you understand. Since it's your first time playing and creating a character, it's probably a good idea to keep things simple.

You don't actually gain class levels through traits, you just make other calculations as if you had a higher (or lower) class level. But you are correct that you can choose from racial feats (listed under "Half-Elven Feats" on that page) as you would choose from feats normally.