Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII Spoiler Thread

[Splintered]

Just assume that everybody is Troy Baker, it's safer.

And if it's not Troy Baker it's Steve Blum.

 

[Blade]

You guys aren't helping. :/

 

[Lex]

Don't forget Nolan North

 

[Blade]

Please try and figure out who this is that voices Jamus?

 

[Splintered]

I don't recognize his voice, but as far as quest givers go, most of the time their voices aren't listed, they are just under "various" voices iirc. (Steve Blum is in the game though, I recognized him as the VA for the guy who lost his memory and you have to get him his diary).

If you want to compare voices: Dead Dunes sidequest and Guilty Gear. And here's the cast

EDIT: Ninja'd. It's hard to pinpoint "gruff" voices because sometimes they sound similar and it's easy to mix them up.

 

[Jason Tandro]

Nothing on IMDB except a bunch of "additional voices"... they only name a handful of lesser NPCs...

 

[Blade]

Well, I know Steve Blum and this isn't him. Or Nolan North.

I watched several videos of their voices and it's not them.

So this guy is a lesser-known voice actor I think.

 

[Kuja9001]

Does the Ultimania say anything at all about anyone else that isn't lightning?

 

[Lex]

So I've been thinking a lot about this game recently and having distanced myself from it a lot, I still really like it. Does everybody else still hate it?

I really liked the ending. I mean it was far from perfect but it got me really emotional and that's all I want from a FF ending.

 

[Clement Rage]

It wasn't a bad game. The ending annoyed me for being

Spoiler

an exact beat for beat photocopy of the ending of 13-1. Snow and Noel's plot were the best part IMO.

 

[Flare]

I never hated the game, I actually liked it a lot. It had my favorite gameplay out of the three, I loved the freedom of exploration in it. The story was good, but It wasn't as 'big' as the first two; I just wish there was more.

 

[Jason Tandro]

Dude, Lex, I freaking love this game. Yes, the quests are kind of fetch questy and it's clearly trying to push the "dress-up game" culture on the audience. The story is a jumble of incomprehensibility and it doesn't really feel like it ties up the trilogy at all. There are flaws. But I still love it.

I'm even novelizing it #shamelessplug.

I think the day/night transition made the world feel alive. I really felt connected to each place as I learned all about it. Even people who hate the game say the combat system is the best thing about the game. The worlds are beautiful even if the graphics aren't on par with XIII-2. I love the New Game Plus, especially since with enough practice you can complete all the main quest storylines on the second day

Spoiler: (not joking, I've done it)

.

But yeah all seriousness. I loved this game. Lots of fun.

 

[Kuja9001]

So I've been thinking a lot about this game recently and having distanced myself from it a lot, I still really like it. Does everybody else still hate it?

Still hate it. It literally answered nothing about my boy's situation in the second game and of course

Spoiler

no wedding

.

Snow's scenes were amazing, they were on par with the JP version minus a few screw ups. I didn't like how the situation was resolved though so I just use head canon for it.

I like the Eng dubbed version of psycho Noel. He says something like "you think you're safe from me? Sure about that?" I'm thinking to myself "this jigga is crazy" The emotional Noel goes to the JP version.

Poor Sazh, Fang, and Vanille all were wasted potential.

I'm even novelizing it #shamelessplug.

I've been reading it. I'm curious about which translation you will be going with during the finale with

Spoiler

Hope Godsteim

.

 

[Jason Tandro]

To be honest for most of the dialogue I am using the english game dialogue as I'm sure you've noticed. However if you wanna link me to alternate translations I'll see if I can implement those.

 

[Lex]

I guess your mileage will vary on enjoyment of the story based on what you actually care about.

I struggled with the whole "we're kind of floating around not talking about these gods and the overall mythology but it's all in the datalog, oh there's barthandelus he's a fal-LOOK AT THAT BIRD OVER THERE OMG I'M A L'CIE PLEASE HELP" aspect of XIII, and I found XIII-2's plot really truly needless (but I enjoyed it a bit once I got over that).

In terms of what they decided to do with LR re: the start of the story, I'm not a fan. We didn't need random time travel in XIII-2 and we don't need to have travelled 500 years in LR.

BUT, I liked the story. I liked finally getting some direct mythology from the characters, which is incredibly important IMO, and it's what made XIII and XIII-2 so nonsensical to some people. I don't remember where I said this (original LR thrad probs) but I whooped and fist pumped the air when you're in the dead dunes dungeon and Fang says something like "Lindzei was a trickster" at a mural. It's like... that's all we need from the characters, more of that shit, more actual world building.

Thought the final boss was pretty fitting too. I was shocked that Serah ACTUALLY died at the end of XIII-2, I remember finding that kinda weird.

The story in LR lacks in areas I don't care about that others really do. Sazh I was happy with. I've said in the past I don't like him - that's not entirely true, I just find him kind of annoying but I DO like his story progression in XIII (not the sequels). However as I say, in LR I was pleased with his level of involvement where others weren't.

Hope I felt kind of shitty about because I liked adult Hope and I hate the realisation (though it was kinda obvious) that you don't see "real" hope for the entire game. Like at all. It makes those interactions kind of annoying when you realise that, though "real" Hope does shine through at some points.

Snow I was happy about, I liked his story in LR. Hated in XIII-2 (it literally made no fucking sense to me why he HAD SERAH and was like "I'm off to be a L'Cie" - I mean I understand the explanation in the story I just thought it was dumb as fuck). But with Serah dead in LR and knowing he was the only L'Cie I liked this dark Snow, and I loved him as a boss. Agree about the no wedding thing, considering how hyped up that shit was it's shitty they left it out. I didn't feel like I lost anything personally from not seeing it though, I don't really give a shit about Serah. I like her on a very medium level, but I really love Snow so I'm kinda meh about the pairing.

Fang I care about. And I think we can all agree she really shined in this game, thank fuck (she had like two lines in XIII-2, rage). Also Vanille's plot was rather odd, but I was happy with the Fanille moments overall and I thought it was oddly fitting that she had such an important role to play considering her role in the original XIII.

Noel and Mog I enjoyed in LR. I kinda wish Noel had been slightly more friendly though.

As for Lightning herself, she's so wooden in XIII-2 that I liked the kind of balance between XIIILightning and XIII-2Lightning, but I wish she'd been more like her original self. That overspoken stuff from XIII-2 really fucking pissed me off, so I was glad to see that go. I lived for her emotional confrontation with Snow, that was great. And the dialogue between her and Fang was probably my favourite part of the game.

The main thing lacking for me overall was the lack of Pulse and Lindzei, if we're talking overall mythology. I mean Bhuni is just like "oh look I haff dubble spear now" and it's like... what? The final boss, the fact that he IS the arena, that shit was awesome. But it was kind of too sudden for an FF game. Give me a Pulse and Lindzei double fight gauntlet before getting to Bhuni, and a more interesting final dungeon. I liked looking out at all the different XIII places in the corridors in the final place, it really felt neat in the way that it was coming to an end, and the ending had a lot of resolutions and references even if it was a bit crazy-out there in terms of FF endings.

I dunno, the ending felt really personal to me. I liked seeing all the characters together again, even if it was kinda fucked up. I just had all these memories that popped up in my head and took me by surprise. I first played XIII on the XBox 360 before I even owned a PS3 (my flatmate had the XBox) and I struggled to get into it. I really really struggled. I finished it in a week or so but then kinda went "maybe that one just isn't for me" even though I loved the combat once I got the hang of it. Then I picked up my PS3 and played it again and actually understanding the plot counts for SO MUCH. XIII-2 I marathon 100%'d in a week when I got it and I vividly remember that feeling of game fatigue but still getting excited and enjoying myself while playing it, even if I was pissed off about what happened to Lightning's character and the lack of Fang and Vanille, and various other weird things.

But when I was watching the LR ending I was like sitting there with my 3 platinums and I had flashbacks of playing XIII on the XBox, then many playthroughs later spending over 100 hours on Skype with Fangu as we simultaneously 100%'d the game again (almost every day for like 6 hours on a break from Uni for the both of us), then discussing strategies in XIII-2 when I started regularly posting on TLS with everyone and marathon-ing the game with my crystal edition XIII-2 T-Shirt on, and I just got emotional. It was an end of an era thing. And maybe my nostalgia for all that coloured my perception of the ending, it probably did. But I still get emotional when I watch it.

My love affair with the XIII trilogy is odd. None of them rank even in my top 5 FF games, but I'd do it all again in a heartbeat, because there's so much more to all of these games than meets the eye, and the amount of hate it gets in the fandoms - while understandable - it definitely doesn't deserve.

 

[Kuja9001]

To be honest for most of the dialogue I am using the english game dialogue as I'm sure you've noticed. However if you wanna link me to alternate translations I'll see if I can implement those.

This is the more accurate translation(The dub screwed up again)

http://tensai-shoujo.tumblr.com/post/68418626957/cutscene-translation-6

Snow I was happy about, I liked his story in LR. Hated in XIII-2 (it literally made no fucking sense to me why he HAD SERAH and was like "I'm off to be a L'Cie" - I mean I understand the explanation in the story I just thought it was dumb as fuck). But with Serah dead in LR and knowing he was the only L'Cie I liked this dark Snow, and I loved him as a boss. Agree about the no wedding thing, considering how hyped up that shit was it's shitty they left it out. I didn't feel like I lost anything personally from not seeing it though, I don't really give a shit about Serah. I like her on a very medium level, but I really love Snow so I'm kinda meh about the pairing.

I understand your point about the XIII-2 stuff, they should've had the novella sh*t in-game. Some of my fav bits about him happened in the novel is this

Spoiler

“The crystal pillar crumbled to dust, Cocoon fell… Serah died. Then on top of that, even our village has become like this… Hey, this has to be some sort of bad dream, right?”

The Cactuar simply stood next to Snow, without showing him any sort of vision at all. Silence. That was the Cactuar’s answer.
“I know. I know, alright. It’s not some sort of dream. But how? How did I know that this is real?”

It was probably because these were things that were precious to him. Even if he couldn’t touch them with his own hands. Even Cocoon. Even Pulse. Even the people living there. Even his companions. Finally, even Serah. They were all things that he needed so much. They were things he would go as far as to offer himself to protect.

This one is my favorite

Spoiler

“Cactuar. Turn me into a l’Cie.”
The Cactuar looked up at Snow as if to say, ‘are you sure?’
“I said there was no point in obtaining power if it would cause the one person who is truly important to me to suffer, didn’t I. That’s why I didn’t want to become a l’Cie, I said.”

The Cactuar understood how he felt. The power of a fal’Cie, could have easily been used to force a person to become a l’Cie, but the Cactuar did no such thing.

“But, if I wasn’t able to protect the one person who is truly precious to me, and only I’m left alive, then there’s nothing that can be said.”
Even if he became a l’Cie, there would be no one to feel sad for him. Then, what was the point in trying to stay human? Even if he was destined to become a Cie’th, he would have no regrets if there was even one thing for him to protect.

“I might not be able offer protection even if I do become a l’Cie. However, if I had power, then maybe I could do something. I’ll bet everything on that.”
As if to reply ‘okay,’ the Cactuar spread out its limbs. The color disappeared from his vision. It was a vision of his Focus. For real, this time.

P112-113

Snow was there. So was Serah. The two of them were up against the jet-black Bahamut. Snow was throwing punches at it. Serah was shooting off magic. Snow stood on guard and took a hit from their enemy, while Serah watched Snow’s back.

I see, he thought. Up until now, he had always only thought of protecting Serah. The Cactuar was telling him not just to think about that, but to try fighting together.

Tendrils of light stretched towards him. Instead of being bound by them, Snow himself reached out his hands and took hold of them.
“Thanks. I’m glad that we’re companions.”

Fang I care about. And I think we can all agree she really shined in this game, thank fuck (she had like two lines in XIII-2, rage). Also Vanille's plot was rather odd, but I was happy with the Fanille moments overall and I thought it was oddly fitting that she had such an important role to play considering her role in the original XIII.

Love Fang and Vanille

As for Lightning herself, she's so wooden in XIII-2 that I liked the kind of balance between XIIILightning and XIII-2Lightning, but I wish she'd been more like her original self. That overspoken stuff from XIII-2 really fucking pissed me off, so I was glad to see that go. I lived for her emotional confrontation with Snow, that was great. And the dialogue between her and Fang was probably my favourite part of the game.

I enjoyed the first game's Lightning the most. Blame her dead like attitude on Etro. This game's Lightning was close to the first game but I wasn't feeling it.

My love affair with the XIII trilogy is odd. None of them rank even in my top 5 FF games, but I'd do it all again in a heartbeat, because there's so much more to all of these games than meets the eye, and the amount of hate it gets in the fandoms - while understandable - it definitely doesn't deserve.

XIII is in my top five FF games, I really enjoy the gameplay. Despite my hatred for LR, upon completing it I got a bit emotional.

 

[Clement Rage]

The LR ending could have been more emotional. It should have been by right, I was invested in Snow and Noel's storylines. But the whole way through I kept thinking 'Haven't we been here before?'

Spoiler

The Bhuni bossfight is very, very similar to the Orphan bossfight in FF13, he looks similar and uses a lot of the same tricks. Fang and Vanille narrowly avert causing a catastrophe, Dajh and Serah return from their apparent death, the old world is destroyed but there's a convenient new one nearby where humanity can carve out their own path, freed from the tyranny of the gods/Fal'Cie, and everyone holds hands in midair as the world is destroyed

I think the 'is Lightning happy' line might have influenced me on this.

The sequels were better games, but 13-1 had a much better plot. I didn't miss the mythology because it was background, in the main plot we had what we needed. The world was fascinating, but the sequels basically dumped it, I would've really liked to spend time there.

13-2... I dunno, the first game had lots of room for a sequel, but why time travel? There were so many plots that could've come from all the cocoon refugees carving a place for themselves in the new world. Cocoon Fal'Cie, Pulse Falcie, factions among the survivors, the return of the Maker, conflict with Pulsian natives... Once they did that, they had to keep writing contrivances to make various characters time travel independently, Hope's Time Capsule, however it was that Snow and Sazh made it to 500 AF separately. And leave the rest of the world behind.

Once I got over that, though, I liked 13-2. Getting to spend time with Serah was nice, we find out that she ain't the stock princess Light and Snow treat her like. And Noel was a good character, the Academia level was fantastic... Wanted to play it lately, but couldn't find the disc.

While they were making like 60 costumes for Lightning, couldn't they have done one for Fang? She's been wearing the same thing for 1500 years now.

As for LR, it has its moments, some of the quests have real punch. They had to put Dajh unconscious so he wouldn't be a 500 year old in a five year old's body, and of course Sazh would stay with him. I don't think I like it, but I understand it.

They were good games, I just wish the devs chose to expand the existing world rather than dumping it and starting anew each time.

 

[Lex]

The sequels were better games, but 13-1 had a much better plot. I didn't miss the mythology because it was background, in the main plot we had what we needed. The world was fascinating, but the sequels basically dumped it, I would've really liked to spend time there.

I couldn't disagree with the bolded more. The characters spend the whole game using lofty doublespeak and never once actually talk about the overall mythology. I've been through XIII a load of times now looking out for it and they just don't address it at all. None of the characters even really talk about Ragnarok or what it means, what Pulse and Cocoon actually are, where the fal'cie and themselves really came from... there's very very little. Honestly I pay rapt attention to FF games but my first time through this one I had no idea whatsoever was going on. I specifically remember getting to Barthandelus II at the end of the Pulse storyline and being like... what the FUCK is going on. What is he talking about training for? Why is he helping?

The story is just plain badly told in XIII IMO. It's a story I really like, but the focus is all about the angst of being a L'Cie and what it means for these people (which is good to a point because character development is important) when it should have shifted at a certain point to the actual plot, which it never does.

EDIT: I've just re-read and realised I slightly misinterpreted your post. Yeah the mythology is just background, but there are parts of the mythology that are important to the plot that the characters should have had at least one big discussion about which never happened.

 

[Blade]

^I have to agree with Lex. Here's how I sum up the games:

XII: Save the world? L'Cie? What are those? Why are we doing this stuff?
XII-2: It's all Lightning's Fault so Serah saves the day... but not really. Also manly rivalries.
Lightning Returns: Light finally knows what's going on (as do we), and finally owns up for all the mistakes the previous two games made that shouldn't have been made in the first place.

 

[lithiumkatana17]

The sequels were better games, but 13-1 had a much better plot. I didn't miss the mythology because it was background, in the main plot we had what we needed. The world was fascinating, but the sequels basically dumped it, I would've really liked to spend time there.

I couldn't disagree with the bolded more. The characters spend the whole game using lofty doublespeak and never once actually talk about the overall mythology. I've been through XIII a load of times now looking out for it and they just don't address it at all. None of the characters even really talk about Ragnarok or what it means, what Pulse and Cocoon actually are, where the fal'cie and themselves really came from... there's very very little. Honestly I pay rapt attention to FF games but my first time through this one I had no idea whatsoever was going on. I specifically remember getting to Barthandelus II at the end of the Pulse storyline and being like... what the FUCK is going on. What is he talking about training for? Why is he helping?

The story is just plain badly told in XIII IMO. It's a story I really like, but the focus is all about the angst of being a L'Cie and what it means for these people (which is good to a point because character development is important) when it should have shifted at a certain point to the actual plot, which it never does.

EDIT: I've just re-read and realised I slightly misinterpreted your post. Yeah the mythology is just background, but there are parts of the mythology that are important to the plot that the characters should have had at least one big discussion about which never happened.

I agree with you whole-heartedly. XIII doesn't have a bad story, it's just told very poorly. I shouldn't have to comb through dozens of datalogs just to figure out what the hell is going on with the plot or mythology of the XIII-verse.

The Spoony One actually addresses the story line issues quite a few times in his review of the game, which, even though he's infamous for nitpicking, I actually found the whole thing quite hilarious.

 

[Flare]

I really liked the lore of XIII's universe, in all the games. It has a ton of info, but I do wish it was more revealed in-game instead of through datalogs much of the time (especially in the first one).

As for the world, I liked XIII's world, I just wish I could explore Cocoon a lot more. I enjoyed XIII-2's different timelines on different locations as well, it was cool seeing the paradox locales and then the normal, fixed ones. And in LR, the amount of freedom you had to run around and explore the two big cities and the desert and the plains/forest... I loved that so much. I just wish there was more time to explore.

 

[Lex]

I remember having this discussion with someone once and they tried to shame me for not reading the datalogs. They said something like "you should be reading the datalogs though" and I was like... I do read them. The point is that I shouldn't have to read them to understand the story. Those things are meant as a backup to store information that you might want to look up later, or to provide additional detail. Not to actually explain the damn plot.

The reason it annoys me so much is because XIII had a brilliant story, and if the narrative had been good at conveying that I'm convinced the game wouldn't have split the FF fandom half as much. Sure the linearity is damn annoying, but the story needn't have been.

 

[Jason Tandro]

To be honest for most of the dialogue I am using the english game dialogue as I'm sure you've noticed. However if you wanna link me to alternate translations I'll see if I can implement those.

This is the more accurate translation(The dub screwed up again)

http://tensai-shoujo.tumblr.com/post/68418626957/cutscene-translation-6

Not only is that more accurate but it does explain it a lot better. I was always a little fuzzy on Lightning's purpose. That said there is one exchange I think I'm going to go with the english translation on:

Lightning: Answer me one question. That body… Where is Hope’s soul?
Bhunivelze: Have you forgotten already? Souls are invisible to god.


Bhunivelze's line here actually lampshades the redundant dialogue. I prefer in the English dub where he flat out admits "I do not know". I like that we see Bhunivelze's true weakness when he stops referring to himself in the third person and begins to make things personal. Whether this was an intentional choice or not I can't say, but that's how I interpreted it.

 

[Lex]

Random tidbit: his use of the word "Opaque" in that line bothers me ("Yes, your souls are opaque to me") because it's like... that doesn't mean invisible, he'd still be able to see them XD. The meaning isn't lost though, I do like his monologue there.

 

[Jason Tandro]

I think it's referring to opaque as it means the opposite of transparent. He is saying I can see through all things with physical form, but I cannot see into your souls.