Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII Spoiler Thread

Celesta

Pro Adventurer
A youtube user is offering a walkthrough with subtitles on their channel
There are 3 videos so far, subtitles are available for cut scenes and some of the in game dialogue among other things. Great if you want to watch a game stream and appreciate the story as well.
Video #1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaLnA5XBpgY
 
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Selphie Tilmitt

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Maidenofwar
Moar translation (Vanille ritual scene) -

http://tensai-shoujo.tumblr.com/post/68039394192/cutscene-translation-3

What did you do to mah Vanille's character development Toriyama? She stopped running away and faced up to her past/fate/destiny at the end of FFXIII. She atoned and redeemed herself by supporting Cocoon for 500 years. Cut the girl a break sheez. Also "many deaths" what did I miss? She felt responsible for Serah's branding, what happened to Dajh, what happened with Fang/Ragnarok, etc but unless she now feels responsible for Cid's death, what happened to Serah at the end of XIII-2, etc IDK. Or it could be referring to that Paradox ending in XIII-2 where all the Oerbians became Cieth. Or maybe those who died when Cocoon was assaulted at the end of XIII. Or something. Otherwise Vanille stop feeling so guilty geez. You did your best.

On the other hand that thing with Vanille/Fang guiding the souls together seems like LR's take on the Lif and Lifthrasir thing so that's cool :kiss:
 

Arianna

Holy, Personified
AKA
Katie; Seta.
tumblr_mwl20ogFxT1t2fa05o1_1280.jpg

Would someone please explain where this picture comes from? I know the woman is Etro, but who is the man (Bhunivelze)? And, considering that the woman's headdress looks like the Lindzei part of the staff, could it be Lindzei? Thank you!
 

Kuja9001

Ooooh Salty!
AKA
roxas9001, Krat0s9001, DarkSlayerZero
Would someone please explain where this picture comes from? I know the woman is Etro, but who is the man (Bhunivelze)? And, considering that the woman's headdress looks like the Lindzei part of the staff, could it be Lindzei? Thank you!

Dead Dunes underground
 

Mwynn

Tenderness
Would someone please explain where this picture comes from? I know the woman is Etro, but who is the man (Bhunivelze)? And, considering that the woman's headdress looks like the Lindzei part of the staff, could it be Lindzei? Thank you!

In the underground labyrinth in the Dead Dunes, there are multiple projections in different rooms that show illustrations. Also I think that's Lindzei.

BZyi98XIEAEM7uZ.jpg
 

Kuja9001

Ooooh Salty!
AKA
roxas9001, Krat0s9001, DarkSlayerZero


Caius: It is impossible to take my soul. Just watch. *Caius stabs himself*
Lightning: !!
Caius: Even if one Yeul wishes for my freedom, another Yeul wishes for me to revive and stay. With each reincarnation, Yeul’s soul fell apart, scattered, and melted into the Chaos. This is why Yeul’s heart is filled with contradictions. It is true that she wants me to be saved, but at the same time, her wish for me to stay is another truth.
Lightning: So Yeul is the one binding you here?
Caius: She is like a child. Because she is unable to leave this place, she must, at least, have her guardian by her side. The Yeuls – the invisible Chaos – are a necessary existence in this world.
Lightning: A cursed, sorrowful existence.
Caius: Their power is too great. Even if they have no desire to harm the world, their mere existences automatically skew the world. Savior, is there a place for Yeul in the new world you imagine? She cannot go. She has no place there. The Chaos is suitable for us.
Lightning: You plan on staying in this dying world with Yeul?
Caius: I am a hollow shell. My soul and decaying flesh have fused with the Chaos. I am also unable to be reborn into the new world. I will eternally silence the souls wandering in darkness.
Lightning: Are you going to sacrifice yourself and atone for the sin of bringing death to the world? …Yeul? Do you want to be with Caius?
Yeul: I…will not hesitate.
Lightning: So you do not wish for salvation.
Caius: Leave this place, Savior. Do not sway Yeul’s decision any further. *disappears*
Lumina: Do you have any regrets?
Yeul: I promised “him” that we’d see each other again…
Lumina: Looks like there’s one Yeul who wishes to be with someone other than Caius. Do you understand now? The power that shred the world apart, warped space and time, and pulled you into Valhalla, was the “invisible Chaos” – or simply, the many reincarnations of the eternally suffering priestess. It was all Yeul. It seems like the Chaos has calmed down a bit, but who knows when it will go crazy again. If I were you, I would hurry and find a way to save their souls, Lightning.
Lightning: I do not have the power to save those who do not seek salvation.


http://tensai-shoujo.tumblr.com/post/68309424010/cutscene-translation-5

Honestly I wanna cry. f*ckin Etro
 

Mwynn

Tenderness
Ugh Caius. Caius really hurts me lmao. I started appreciating him more lately. What really hit me the most was what he did in the ending. I'm not sure what happened, but from that translation he must have decided to stay with the other Yeuls and continue his job as the Guardian of Time in the Invisible World. And man, his expression when he was holding Noel up, before he entrusts him the Yeul both of them knew... he was looking straight at him and they really did a good job in showing depth in his facial expression. I saw a mixture of pride, sadness, integrity, and overall the humanity within him.
 

Farron

If the sky comes falling down
AKA
Hallelujah
Caius still gives me a lady-boner, it's going to get worse with the NA release and that Kain Highwind voice.

uuuuuuuuuugh

my body is ready

2 much information i know :monster:


If they put Caius in future Dissidia I would explode from too much sexy voice. Kain and Caius in the same room.
 

Arianna

Holy, Personified
AKA
Katie; Seta.
Seriously, for those who've read translations and/or understand Japanese, plus who have seen the ending: Do you believe Bhunivelze is in love with Lightning? Seriously, just think about it? The title of the song "Consider His/God's Love an Honor", as well as some of the things he says to Lightning. Everyone else is fodder, but Lightning. Even Hope is just a vessel. He says "Let me eternally adore you" and "You don't know the heart of a god" (someone on Tumblr helped me with knowing these two sentences; and, I think that person is here on the forums, but not sure.)

Ugh Caius. Caius really hurts me lmao. I started appreciating him more lately. What really hit me the most was what he did in the ending. I'm not sure what happened, but from that translation he must have decided to stay with the other Yeuls and continue his job as the Guardian of Time in the Invisible World. And man, his expression when he was holding Noel up, before he entrusts him the Yeul both of them knew... he was looking straight at him and they really did a good job in showing depth in his facial expression. I saw a mixture of pride, sadness, integrity, and overall the humanity within him.

I agree with everything, but I thought he agreed to go back to the chaos (in other words, be reborn.) If I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

I can't help but wonder if Mwynn was connected in all of this. I know that she is dead and gone, but - I still wonder if that's the truth - if she didn't somehow reincarnate into Yeul, perhaps she led Lindzei to create humans, what have you, if not all of it? There's just something that screams in me that Mwynn was still watching over the cosmos, even though she left her powers to Etro, and Etro to various people (Caius and Lightning primarily, maybe also the Eidolins and so forth.)
 
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Storm XIII

Lv. 25 Adventurer
"Lumina: Looks like there’s one Yeul who wishes to be with someone other than Caius. Do you understand now? The power that shred the world apart, warped space and time, and pulled you into Valhalla, was the “invisible Chaos” – or simply, the many reincarnations of the eternally suffering priestess. It was all Yeul. It seems like the Chaos has calmed down a bit, but who knows when it will go crazy again. If I were you, I would hurry and find a way to save their souls, Lightning."

Can someone explain this line to me? lol.
 

Selphie Tilmitt

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Maidenofwar
I don't know but this is interesting -

From tumblr -

Bhunivelze in many ways resembles Hope, not only physically and in battle. Despite the obvious differences in their points of view, both wanted to create a new world in which humanity would live happily. Not to mention the mother issues…

But there’s something that radically differences Hope and Bhunivelze.

When Bhunivelze was struck down by Lightning, he lost it. We know he absolutely feared death. Mortally wounded, Bhunivelze tried to take down Lightning with him and all the souls of humanity out of rage and fear.

Hope faced death with dignity. When he came to say farewell to Lightning, he was ready to give his life and ensure that Lightning wouldn’t risk herself for him and put in danger herself and humanity. Even in his final moments, Hope was trying to protect everyone. He wanted to save as many people as he could putting his life in exchange for the future he wanted for Lightning and all of humanity. In that moment, Hope proved he is the Director of the Academy, rightful leader of humanity.

Bhunivelze considered Hope a noble soul worthy of harboring a god. But for me, the question is, was Bhunivelze worthy of using Hope Estheim as his avatar?

Credits- shadowmeowth/tumblr - http://shadowmeowth.tumblr.com/post/68310707859/more-bhunivelze-in-many-ways-resembles-hope

**
Pretty sure Bhuni was just projecting Hope, he projects a lot of Hope stuff like his fighting style, weapon, etc, why not his love? Or I could slowly be getting brainwashed by Hoperai shippings!? :desucait:
 
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Splintered

unsavory tart
"Lumina: Looks like there’s one Yeul who wishes to be with someone other than Caius. Do you understand now? The power that shred the world apart, warped space and time, and pulled you into Valhalla, was the “invisible Chaos” – or simply, the many reincarnations of the eternally suffering priestess. It was all Yeul. It seems like the Chaos has calmed down a bit, but who knows when it will go crazy again. If I were you, I would hurry and find a way to save their souls, Lightning."

Can someone explain this line to me? lol.


As far as the invisible chaos is concerned... my theory is kind far fetched but...

All people have a piece of chaos in them. It gives them a certain amount of power in some cases, like magic. Yeul has always been an odd case, so it's likely her chaos is a bit different, she is the first human being and she is unable to be dissolved into the afterlife like other souls.

The same soul of Yeul is reincarnated, but is always a bit individualistic. So while the soul is the same, it could be that other facts are different, including them probably having their own piece of chaos. As all the Yeul's died, their chaos assimilated and because generally known as "invisible chaos." And since she died every fifteen years since the beginning of time, well, that's a lot of power that Etros is having to hold back. And it's the chaos of a person that has been suffering for all that time, and I've always held that chaos/power has been linked to emotions since the first game.

Lightning goes to save souls and take them to the new world but if she were to save Yeul's soul, she would have to take all that chaos with her, and it's too destructive to do that. So Yeul stays, but Caius refuses to leave her because even if it means destruction, Yeul is still a child and that person would be scared to be without her parent.

The Yeul's want to be with Caius with the exception of who Lumina points out.

If you read the novels, the many incarnations of Yeul never really got to live life, they were almost immediately taken away by Caius for her safekeeping. Most Yeul's seemed to take it okay, but one Yeul, the Yeul in AF500 (the last level of XIII-2), became bitter and asked Caius for the at least the last Yeul to be allowed to live freely. Caius agreed.

That Yuel was AF700 Yuel, or "Noel's Yuel." She was allowed to live and fall in love freely, and she fell in love with Noel but died young like the rest. So while every Yeul was focused on Caius, the last Yeul said that she wanted to say goodbye to Noel.

At the very end, he lets one Yeul go, and that's Noel's Yeul.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
Brilliant Pulse, come ye from the isolated beyond. Radiant Lindzei, come ye from the abstruse midst. Let us bless the new goddess with the brilliant light of god.

For those who haven't seen the cutscene in question, Pulse and Lindzei apparently constitute the two halves of Bhunivelze's double-sided scythe. Though the weapon isn't destroyed during the course of the battle (Bhuni just loses his grip on it after Lightning beats him down enough), I assume they were destroyed along with him.
 

Selphie Tilmitt

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Maidenofwar
So after reading what Splint had to say about the ending, Tres's input, and the whole translations of the ending over at tensai's, I'm inclined to agree with Splint currently. I was thinking about it last night and yeah ... Something just doesn't sit right with me. I think I'ma put this up there with Star Ocean 3's in/famous
you are playing a video game/your characters are video game characters in a video game
plot twist (though ironically that one didn't really bother me so much personally when I played SO3) I might feel better once I'm done with the whole game and seen the ending/epilogue in game for myself but yeah.
 
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Mwynn

Tenderness
Actually, I've been rethinking the ending as well. I've rewatched it about 9 times already. I have a good few points or theories on how stuff happened, but when it comes to Earth...

Yeah, it grew to bother the heck out of me. At first I didn't mind it because I was overwhelmed by the fact that we got a happier ending than I was expecting, but it's beginning to get hard getting used to it. I love everything else, humanity piercing through Bhuni and all that, but then it reaches that climax where they end up on Earth and I just go from : 'D to D :

It's not that the trope itself is very tacky to me, it just annoys me that I can't find any explanation as to what exactly happened in that moment. Was Earth created at that moment the new universe bursted like a Big Bang from a condensed crystal? (I think yes but) How did everything looked established by the epilogue when Light doesn't look like she aged much? What were those city lights we saw? Possibly and hopefully it gets explained in the game (as Earth appears on the top of Yggdrasil on the 12th day) because they've been bragging so much how this game will tie all loose ends and have a satisfying conclusion and here we have one big irritating plot hole presented in the ending.

That reminds me, this isn't the first time the use of Earth has bothered me. It was from a small scene in XIII's first part, where Vanille and Hope gets to know each other first. Vanille asked why Hope was so panicked in which he retorts with "Pulse is hell on Earth!". That part bothered me so much and I shrugged it off as something that was mistranslated, but now... idek

One thing I know for certain is that they should be the first humans on Earth, as implied by the ending's dialogue (full translation here)

Lightning: When the gods disappeared into the Unseen Realm, the mythology of crystals came to an end. People were reborn into the new world and stepped forward into the future… Even if there are times when we wander in darkness and tremble in the night, we will keep working together and confirming our bonds. As we all hold hands, we will change the warmth between them into hope… And we will live on this planet.
The Legend of Crystals – the story before this planet was born… The story before you were born.

It's kinda irritating me that I don't exactly get what they mean by being "reborn". I know for sure it doesn't mean the survivors have forgotten their old memories (since that's what Bhuni wanted) though. But yeah.

The whole legend/mythology thing is something I'm warm with, because it's an interesting take on the meaning of "Final Fantasy". TBH if they had chosen a new world that is not Earth I won't be this pissy over it. I am hoping the experience of going through the game myself (reaching the ending on my own) and understanding more of the stuff in English would make me feel better over this.
 
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Kuja9001

Ooooh Salty!
AKA
roxas9001, Krat0s9001, DarkSlayerZero
That reminds me, this isn't the first time the use of Earth has bothered me. It was from a small scene in XIII's first part, where Vanille and Hope gets to know each other first. Vanille asked why Hope was so panicked in which he retorts "Pulse is hell on Earth!" That part bothered me so much and I shrugged it off as something that was mistranslated, but now... idek

That's definitely a mistranslation because Noel says something similar here



Starts @2:25
 

Mwynn

Tenderness
But in that context earth is used to refer to the surface/land. In Hope's quote it referred to the planet itself, think about it. But whatever, I'll just shrug it off once again that it is mistranslation.

So I shared my thoughts on Tumblr as well and someone brought up a rather logical possibility as to why the epilogue's setting is already modern.

Source

This is my idea.

What I think is that the lifestream shown in the ending arriving to Earth could be all the souls being reborn, but in different parts of the timeline. I mean, these were the souls of all humanity. Being reborn at the same time and place, that’d be madness. The world in which they’re shown, it already shows a modern world. So I think, all of humanity was reborn, but in different timelines. If the world of FFXIII had its Historia Crux, why not Earth? Some were reborn in the Middle Ages, some in the Renaissance, others in the times of Ancient Rome… You get it. And Lightning and friends, landed in our age, our time. Which is pretty obvious. But all the other souls, it’d be crazy if ALL humanity were reborn at once. So that’s my take. And in the same way, the rest of humans -or many of them, at least- aren’t aware of their origins because they’re born here. Descendants of humans reborn in another timeline. Or in the direct past, if you prefer. It’s impossible all humans in FFXIII that were alive and all of those who died could inhabit a planet because that’d be mass population in extreme level. Perhaps some souls didn’t reborn and conformed Earth’s own lifestream. But, anyway, that’s my take. I hope it helped!

This is something I'd like to be confirmed as canon. Makes things easier to accept.
 

Splintered

unsavory tart
Lightning sure is lucky to be born in France and not somewhere like... North Korea. That would have been a hell of a reward. So much for paradise.
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
I didn't find the ending confusing, despite the faults I found with it. I just assumed Lightning and all the other souls would be reborn in bodies on Earth at the beginning of its history, and the epilogue just happens to be picking up with Lightning's modern-day incarnation.
 

Storm XIII

Lv. 25 Adventurer
I was thinking about why Mog and the eidolons didn't went to the new world, and it's kinda obvious lol.

Eidolons only exist in the Unseen Realm, and Mog and his comrades lives in the Ocean of Time (as stated in XIII-2), even in XIII world moogles were unknown.
 

Arianna

Holy, Personified
AKA
Katie; Seta.
I was thinking about why Mog and the eidolons didn't went to the new world, and it's kinda obvious lol.

Eidolons only exist in the Unseen Realm, and Mog and his comrades lives in the Ocean of Time (as stated in XIII-2), even in XIII world moogles were unknown.

Or they were reborn into new forms?

And, moogles were know of, but they were toys. Remember, the stuffed moogle dolls or something like that in XIII? Nice treasure to sell for gil.
 
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Mwynn

Tenderness
So here's the final battle in Normal Mode:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkLMOI5Dzio

And it showcases almost all of Bhunivelze's attacks, except for the ones in his final form such as Heartless Angel (where he creates female fal'Cie to attack Lightning), the one that resembles Hope's Last Resort, and the normal attack where he shoots lasers.
 
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