SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke
- Thread starter The Twilight Mexican
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Eerie
Fire and Blood
I think it may also be tied to the fact that a lot of people who play in English aren't English native. And to them, the nuances added in English will be lost. That's why I'll play in French, for example. Because I'm sure some things will fly over my head, otherwise. I'm not bad at English, but French is where I get all the nuances I need - plus the French localisation is good too.
Purple
Charmed
Yeah that could be it too but for some to claim that the EN localization wants to fan the flames of the LTD, or that they have a bias, is a bit of a stretch to me. I came out of EN version still thinking the LTD was almost non existent. Anyway, some shippers just like to nitpick I guess
looneymoon
they/them
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- Rishi
newcomers will never know... the pain of this cursed image.
/thousand yard stare into the horizon
/thousand yard stare into the horizon
Master Bates
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odekopeko
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I know what it's used for in media - manga, in particular - but I don't know what you guys are referencing it to, so now my curiosity is killing me.
@Purple I'm not sure we're talking about the same people, so I'm just going to come out and say it. There was a specific set of Cloud and Tifa shippers complaining about a throwaway line Cloud says to Tifa after she sees that vision of Marlene in the Train Graveyard.
Japanese Version
Cloud: ティファ...平気か?
Cloud: Tifa...Are you all right?
English Version:
Cloud: What was that about?
In that case, I agreed with them there, only because a literal translation would have worked fine. I didn't think, "What was that about?" read the same as "Are you all right?" But, in my defense, rather than faulting the script, I did kind of lean into it on the English VA because I felt he didn't convey the gentle concern in Cloud's voice. He just sounded weirded out by her.
It was just one of a few moments where I was pulled away due to the voice acting. But the difference is only more pronounced if you hear Sakurai, and then go back and listen to Cody. Another player who only plays in English won't know or even care about this. So it's really a non-issue, and just the shipper in me nitpicking.
Not sure if that's who we're talking about here. But, in any case, I completely agree it's ridiculous to stick to a literal translation. It just doesn't soud good either. Anyway, I'm of the ilk that prefers translators who manage to convey the same thoughts and feelings as the speaker, even if it's not an exact word for word translation.
As for the Ch.8-Ch.9 translation debate, I'm not afraid to say that this came from talking to a specific set of Cloud and Aerith shippers who were just adamant that Cloud's "It's not like that!" was in reference to Tifa being his "someone special."
Just saying there are extremes on both sides. But what really gets under my skin is fake translations circling around twitter and people using this to debate the LTD.
@Purple I'm not sure we're talking about the same people, so I'm just going to come out and say it. There was a specific set of Cloud and Tifa shippers complaining about a throwaway line Cloud says to Tifa after she sees that vision of Marlene in the Train Graveyard.
Japanese Version
Cloud: ティファ...平気か?
Cloud: Tifa...Are you all right?
English Version:
Cloud: What was that about?
In that case, I agreed with them there, only because a literal translation would have worked fine. I didn't think, "What was that about?" read the same as "Are you all right?" But, in my defense, rather than faulting the script, I did kind of lean into it on the English VA because I felt he didn't convey the gentle concern in Cloud's voice. He just sounded weirded out by her.
It was just one of a few moments where I was pulled away due to the voice acting. But the difference is only more pronounced if you hear Sakurai, and then go back and listen to Cody. Another player who only plays in English won't know or even care about this. So it's really a non-issue, and just the shipper in me nitpicking.
Not sure if that's who we're talking about here. But, in any case, I completely agree it's ridiculous to stick to a literal translation. It just doesn't soud good either. Anyway, I'm of the ilk that prefers translators who manage to convey the same thoughts and feelings as the speaker, even if it's not an exact word for word translation.
As for the Ch.8-Ch.9 translation debate, I'm not afraid to say that this came from talking to a specific set of Cloud and Aerith shippers who were just adamant that Cloud's "It's not like that!" was in reference to Tifa being his "someone special."
Just saying there are extremes on both sides. But what really gets under my skin is fake translations circling around twitter and people using this to debate the LTD.
Eerie
Fire and Blood
I actually agree with you re: Cloud’s tone in English. It’s kind of shocking after watching French dubs... Like, Cloud’s French VA is just so very soft most of the times he talks to Tifa, when I put EN and FR dubs side by side it does feel that the EN version of Cloud is more rough and less caring. I didn’t pay attention to how he talks to Aerith cause I’m cloti ok mmh.
odekopeko
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Aerith is constantly teasing Cloud before she gets captured by Shinra, so he's mostly seen acting cool and giving cool responses. But in her Resolution scene, in both versions, Cloud does speak gently with her too. I think her Resolution scene is the one moment I felt in his voice that he really cared about her a lot.
Translations in LTD debates have always been points of contention, so @odekopeko I don't think you're remiss in thinking there are some places that could be translated better than others! The English localization is fantastic for the most part — but obviously it's not perfect, so I don't think it's unfair to say that there are moments that could have been conveyed/approached differently.
Voice acting has to do with this. While I did really enjoy Cody's Cloud, I also did sometimes think he leaned a bit too much into the edginess of Cloud's personality, even as we got further into the game. That said, that's also the Sound Director's choice of voice and line, as I'm sure Cody didn't have the final say on which option to choose.
Of course for people who only play in English, these things don't matter in the long run. But, as we're debating character relationships, what may seem like nitpicks could also be a difference in how people perceive these characters. One example is Aerith's character. In English, she has this great moment where she says "shit!" and everyone playing in English loved it because it showed her sassiness. In Japanese, she doesn't swear at all (in fact, barely any of the characters do) and her word in that moment ("uso") would be better translated as "No way."
Obviously for cultural purposes, since people swear more readily in English, it makes sense to have her say "shit." Plus, it endears her to us. At the same time, this small change might make her character seem slightly different to English speakers than to Japanese speakers. I'm not saying it's a negative, but just that it can influence how people see characters and their relationships with others. That's why we have these debates, no?
Voice acting has to do with this. While I did really enjoy Cody's Cloud, I also did sometimes think he leaned a bit too much into the edginess of Cloud's personality, even as we got further into the game. That said, that's also the Sound Director's choice of voice and line, as I'm sure Cody didn't have the final say on which option to choose.
Of course for people who only play in English, these things don't matter in the long run. But, as we're debating character relationships, what may seem like nitpicks could also be a difference in how people perceive these characters. One example is Aerith's character. In English, she has this great moment where she says "shit!" and everyone playing in English loved it because it showed her sassiness. In Japanese, she doesn't swear at all (in fact, barely any of the characters do) and her word in that moment ("uso") would be better translated as "No way."
Obviously for cultural purposes, since people swear more readily in English, it makes sense to have her say "shit." Plus, it endears her to us. At the same time, this small change might make her character seem slightly different to English speakers than to Japanese speakers. I'm not saying it's a negative, but just that it can influence how people see characters and their relationships with others. That's why we have these debates, no?
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Eerie
Fire and Blood
Yeah in her resolution scene, he's very soft with Aerith. Which reminds me why I felt offended by Tifa's resolution scene in English, it's that the way he talks to her after the hug is just so uncaring. Even the line translated is... The French version which is I think closer to JP makes a lot more sense too, he's just telling her "don't say that" softly when she says it's useless to cry. I really dislike the English Cloud, but I like the English Tifa in this scene.
Yumelinh
Pro Adventurer
I think the best example when it comes to this ( aka VA different tones) is the "Goodnight, Tifa..."
Sakurai's delivery was so sweet and full of caring/longing, it made my heart skip a beat lol ( Sakurai my boy...HOW you do this??)
Cody's delivery, while good, barely have the same feeling tbh.
But then again, VA work in Japan its such an important career in itself. People there study and work a lot to be able to convey so many nuances in their voices because this is really important and necessary to get good jobs in their field there. Idk, but I think that people don't give the same importance to this field of work here in the West, unfortunately.
Sakurai's delivery was so sweet and full of caring/longing, it made my heart skip a beat lol ( Sakurai my boy...HOW you do this??)
Cody's delivery, while good, barely have the same feeling tbh.
But then again, VA work in Japan its such an important career in itself. People there study and work a lot to be able to convey so many nuances in their voices because this is really important and necessary to get good jobs in their field there. Idk, but I think that people don't give the same importance to this field of work here in the West, unfortunately.
Master Bates
Do you enjoy your life?
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No one:
Absolutely no one:
Sakurai's Cloud: Tifa...
Also, Woot! My 1,000th post! New TLS milestone!
Absolutely no one:
Sakurai's Cloud: Tifa...
Also, Woot! My 1,000th post! New TLS milestone!
Purple
Charmed
Maybe it’s just the quality Cody’s voice? He said in that one interview that the creative team from Japan were present during his recording so they’re aware of his delivery
I don’t think he sounded like he didn’t care for Tifa in her resolution scene based on how I heard it. I didn’t come out feeling like he sounded mean even after watching the JP version. If anything, EN Tifa nailed the crying scene better than the JP Tifa
Maybe because I’m just a casual fan/CT fan so maybe that’s why my ears aren’t that attuned to these things
I read stuff on Twitter lately but I barely do a side by side comparison of the EN/JP Cloti scenes.
@odekopeko I came across that. I’ll chalk it up to level of investment in a ship. Because I didn’t even remember what Cloud said in that scene as it’s so minuscule compared to everything else he has done for Tifa. I just don’t understand why some shippers (not you) all of a sudden have their pitchforks ready to storm SE NA, demanding for a more reliable voice direction/translation/localization
but then again this comes with the shipping territory. And it’s not just that particular line there were other lines too
I didn’t know the “Good night, Tifa” line was a big deal too to be honest. I think the EN version is fine. Let me try to understand though. I wonder if it has to do with the quality of the VAs voices? Maybe FR and JP Cloud have that natural soft register to their voices that Cody doesn’t naturally have? Sort of like if Jeremy Irons voiced Cloud, there’s no way he can replicate JP Cloud’s “Good night, Tifa” as softly. Poor analogy but you get my drift
I don’t think he sounded like he didn’t care for Tifa in her resolution scene based on how I heard it. I didn’t come out feeling like he sounded mean even after watching the JP version. If anything, EN Tifa nailed the crying scene better than the JP Tifa
Maybe because I’m just a casual fan/CT fan so maybe that’s why my ears aren’t that attuned to these things
I read stuff on Twitter lately but I barely do a side by side comparison of the EN/JP Cloti scenes.@odekopeko I came across that. I’ll chalk it up to level of investment in a ship. Because I didn’t even remember what Cloud said in that scene as it’s so minuscule compared to everything else he has done for Tifa. I just don’t understand why some shippers (not you) all of a sudden have their pitchforks ready to storm SE NA, demanding for a more reliable voice direction/translation/localization
but then again this comes with the shipping territory. And it’s not just that particular line there were other lines tooI didn’t know the “Good night, Tifa” line was a big deal too to be honest. I think the EN version is fine. Let me try to understand though. I wonder if it has to do with the quality of the VAs voices? Maybe FR and JP Cloud have that natural soft register to their voices that Cody doesn’t naturally have? Sort of like if Jeremy Irons voiced Cloud, there’s no way he can replicate JP Cloud’s “Good night, Tifa” as softly. Poor analogy but you get my drift
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Ryushikaze
Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
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WAAAAAAY back in the day, there was a Clerith "interview" that was made, that purported to have been conducted in a Wacdonalds, treating it as the Japanese version of McDonalds, and not the serial numbers filed off version used to avoid royalties and lawsuits.
Eerie
Fire and Blood
Fhtagn, the abyss is coming closer 
@Purple I think the problem is that Cody *can* sound softer, but for some reason, they decided he shouldn't when the other voices are? I think that there is contentious because fans feel robbed from something that could be better but for some reason isn't (I feel that the EN version does upplay the LTD for that record). Honestly the scene in his room is also very jarring to me, but then again I'm no native speaker. He just sounds like "ciao Tifa, see y'a", I don't feel that longing that exist both in JP and French.
The Cloud French voice also sounds younger than Cody's voice in general, IMHO. And I agree, the JP Tifa wasn't good when she cried, my favourite was EN Tifa's followed by the French one
@Purple I think the problem is that Cody *can* sound softer, but for some reason, they decided he shouldn't when the other voices are? I think that there is contentious because fans feel robbed from something that could be better but for some reason isn't (I feel that the EN version does upplay the LTD for that record). Honestly the scene in his room is also very jarring to me, but then again I'm no native speaker. He just sounds like "ciao Tifa, see y'a", I don't feel that longing that exist both in JP and French.
The Cloud French voice also sounds younger than Cody's voice in general, IMHO. And I agree, the JP Tifa wasn't good when she cried, my favourite was EN Tifa's followed by the French one
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odekopeko
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@Ryushikaze Oh, god. Actually, a moment ago, someone here did me the favor and linked me to a page where this interview was shown, in excruciating detail, including the screenshots. I had a pretty crap week due to real life circumstances, but I can tell you this. The amount of joy and laughter this brought me was the best way to de-stress.
I need to bookmark this page for when I need a good laugh.
I understand you. It could be his register. I would have liked what he did in the Aerith Resolution though. He did manage to capture the gentleness there. But I play in Japanese anyway, so not sure it matters much to me in the long run.
I need to bookmark this page for when I need a good laugh.
I understand you. It could be his register. I would have liked what he did in the Aerith Resolution though. He did manage to capture the gentleness there. But I play in Japanese anyway, so not sure it matters much to me in the long run.
Master Bates
Do you enjoy your life?
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I still remember the interviewees' names (they were Kenji and Saicho). That 'interview' really left me with a lasting impression and I probably won't ever forget it until the day I die. I'll always remember how the proponents and supporters of said 'interview' genuinely believed Wacdonalds was a real thing. That's probably the most ludicrous thing about it, among others (explanation on the koi_bito, the Japanese lessons, alleged Japanese consensus and zeitgeist, etc. etc.). Those I enumerated were probably more sad than funny, imo.
EDIT:
Let me guess... DestinyFailed? Is it still even active?
Eerie
Fire and Blood
odekopeko
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Yes, and not active, but the site is still up. At least it was when I visited half an hour ago.