SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
In this game Cloud does a lot of things with Tifa that would heavily suggest he likes/loves her in a romantic sense regardless of Aerith being alive. The narrative of "Tifa is just second choice because Aerith isn't around" is out of the window now.
That’s good to hear. However, I just don’t think it matters tbh. The LTD will always rage on.

In this instance, it will now be because Cloud is jealous Aerith is still thinking about Zack or he’s doing it as a second choice because Aerith is emotionally unavailable.
 

Hix

Pro Adventurer
In this game Cloud does a lot of things with Tifa that would heavily suggest he likes/loves her in a romantic sense regardless of Aerith being alive. The narrative of "Tifa is just second choice because Aerith isn't around" is out of the window now.

Yeah, though I would argue this was already apparent in Remake (things like Cloud giving the flower to Tifa without option, the train roll, the hug, their constant invasion of each others spaces, intense body language and emotions etc). Further, had Aerith survived in OG, she'd have just stood around while Tifa - and only Tifa - had pieced together Cloud's broken mind (in which it is revealed he always loved her)

That’s good to hear. However, I just don’t think it matters tbh. The LTD will always rage on.

In this instance, it will now be because Cloud is jealous Aerith is still thinking about Zack or he’s doing it as a second choice because Aerith is emotionally unavailable.

In fact we're already seeing the "Cloud is distant because he's just jealous of Zack" takes, which is a remarkable admission because until now the narrative was that Aerith didn't care about him at all anymore.
 

shady

Pro Adventurer
That’s good to hear. However, I just don’t think it matters tbh. The LTD will always rage on.

In this instance, it will now be because Cloud is jealous Aerith is still thinking about Zack or he’s doing it as a second choice because Aerith is emotionally unavailable.
Funny that you've already pointed out what Cloud and Aerith supporters have already started saying across social media now that the...

Gondola Kiss between Cloud and Tifa is out in the open.
Apparently Cloud is a monumental asshole that only kisses Tifa in revenge and jealousy because he thinks Aerith still has feelings for Zack, and how Tifa hopefully finds someone who loves her properly, but that Cloud needs to be with Aerith, she'll understand.
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
Funny that you've already pointed out what Cloud and Aerith supporters have already started saying across social media now that the...

Gondola Kiss between Cloud and Tifa is out in the open.
Apparently Cloud is a monumental asshole that only kisses Tifa in revenge and jealousy because he thinks Aerith still has feelings for Zack, and how Tifa hopefully finds someone who loves her properly, but that Cloud needs to be with Aerith, she'll understand.
Well, I’ve seen these takes so I’ve mentioned them. Thing is… that’s kinda my point. Cope will always exist to some degree. If it turns out it’s not because he’s jealous of Zack, it’ll be something else…

Wasn’t there people saying that them interlocking fingers was more romantic than a kiss? You can’t make this up lol
 

loozzer

Pro Adventurer
I think one reason that the LTD never ends is that cloud/aerith scenes would be construed as quite cute and romantic if you view them on their own. like for example their GS date can be read as cloud being super awkward and distant because he's a super dork who is nervous about going on a date with a girl he likes. their last date together could potentially read as a doomed romance or an us against the world type of thing. he's super concerned about her safety at various points across the games. if tifa didn't exist, i would probably think that they were going for a slow, slow burn with cloud and aerith. it's only when you watch comparable scenes that he has with tifa and learn about his history with her that you realize oh, maybe this guy actually doesn't view aerith romantically.
 

r_monk

Pro Adventurer
AKA
RM
That’s good to hear. However, I just don’t think it matters tbh. The LTD will always rage on.

In this instance, it will now be because Cloud is jealous Aerith is still thinking about Zack or he’s doing it as a second choice because Aerith is emotionally unavailable.
For sure, I don't think anything will stop the LTD from raging on, even if it's only a handful of particularly vocal stragglers by the conclusion of the game.

I've learned that literally nothing will stop shippers from doing their thing. Even if the creators explicitly come out and say "x couple is canon" (in the case of, say, Legend of Korra which was particularly annoying considering the couple in question was queer and therefore unprecedented), that still isn't enough.

That being said, I'm not going to let anyone diminish my enjoyment of how Cloud and Tifa's story plays out, much less the rest of this beautiful, sweepingly epic game. Preserving my peace, however, may require uh, muting and blocking a ton of people.
 

starcape91

Pro Adventurer
AKA
starcape91
So now people are thinking that
Aerith 2 will end up with Cloud 2 in the Terrierverse somehow even though my boy Zack is there
Poor Zack lol
 

billy22

Pro Adventurer
See, I don’t think it would make much difference. I think the LTD would basically be the same had Aerith survived. Possibly worse because people could just head canon that he left Tifa for her post-AC.

If Aerith had not died, and the HA Highwind scene still happened, there would be no debate because it would beg the question why Cloud was plowing one girl instead of the other, when he clearly had two options readily available.

In this case, there was only a debate pre-compilation because one died, and there is very little direct romance in the OG. There was a large sub-section of the fandom that treated the game like a Shakespearean romantic tragedy, that Cloud was in love with Aerith and only her, and that he spent the remainder of his days either pining for her OR died via the meteor and they happily joined together in lifestream goo.

Of course, everything since the compilation started has quashed that notion completely, heavily pushing Cloud/Tifa and Zack/Aerith. Mercifully.

Not gonna lie though, if Aerith had indeed lived in the trilogy, while I would have been extremely upset by the trashing of the OG's themes, the one positive that would have come out of it is we could have had an ending with Cloud/Tifa and Aerith/Zack off and together...oh wait that might still be able to happen. Because now Zack is around. And because we have the Tifa date to reference. A date that was almost meaningless in the OG.
 

starcape91

Pro Adventurer
AKA
starcape91
I still think that the Terrierverse could still be lifestream related somehow. And that Coud will disappear from there after his mind is pieced back together.
 

r_monk

Pro Adventurer
AKA
RM
If Aerith had not died, and the HA Highwind scene still happened, there would be no debate because it would beg the question why Cloud was plowing one girl instead of the other, when he clearly had two options readily available.

In this case, there was only a debate pre-compilation because one died, and there is very little direct romance in the OG. There was a large sub-section of the fandom that treated the game like a Shakespearean romantic tragedy, that Cloud was in love with Aerith and only her, and that he spent the remainder of his days either pining for her OR died via the meteor and they happily joined together in lifestream goo.

Of course, everything since the compilation started has quashed that notion completely, heavily pushing Cloud/Tifa and Zack/Aerith. Mercifully.

Not gonna lie though, if Aerith had indeed lived in the trilogy, while I would have been extremely upset by the trashing of the OG's themes, the one positive that would have come out of it is we could have had an ending with Cloud/Tifa and Aerith/Zack off and together...oh wait that might still be able to happen. Because now Zack is around. And because we have the Tifa date to reference. A date that was almost meaningless in the OG.
It is pretty wild how much they changed the
GS date from OG. Especially considering Aerith's date was, I thought, the most plot-relevant whereas Tifa's was just a standard "I have feelings, but I can't get it out."

I'm so curious about the kinds of conversations they had in the writers' room to arrive at these changes. So far, it seems so thoughtfully pieced together, seeded, developed... And again, am so struck by how brave they are for going so hard on narrative and characterization. Like, damn.
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
I still think that the Terrierverse could still be lifestream related somehow. And that Coud will disappear from there after his mind is pieced back together.
I agree. People wonder how alive characters could still exist there if it is the Lifestream but my theory is that it exists outside of time and everything that occurs there is not exactly chronological with the real world. /
 

starcape91

Pro Adventurer
AKA
starcape91
Because if they’re doing all of this so that Tifa can have Cloud in one world and Aerith can have Cloud in another…that really diminishes the rest of the plot lol
 

loozzer

Pro Adventurer
I agree. People wonder how alive characters could still exist there if it is the Lifestream but my theory is that it exists outside of time and everything that occurs there is not exactly chronological with the real world. /
in one of philly leaker's write ups he mentions that when the party gets on the boat one passenger is left behind. that passenger turns out to be kyrie. i wonder if that is at all connected to fact that kyrie is in zack's world. kinda weird to show that if it's unrelated.
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
Because if they’re doing all of this so that Tifa can have Cloud in one world and Aerith can have Cloud in another…that really diminishes the rest of the plot lol
I’m pretty sure they’re gonna go for Zerith there. Ultimately, it seems pretty unlikely they’d go through the trouble of bringing Zack back, reaffirming that he wants to reunite with Aerith and not following through on that.
 

faefolk

Pro Adventurer
I think one reason that the LTD never ends is that cloud/aerith scenes would be construed as quite cute and romantic if you view them on their own. like for example their GS date can be read as cloud being super awkward and distant because he's a super dork who is nervous about going on a date with a girl he likes. their last date together could potentially read as a doomed romance or an us against the world type of thing. he's super concerned about her safety at various points across the games. if tifa didn't exist, i would probably think that they were going for a slow, slow burn with cloud and aerith. it's only when you watch comparable scenes that he has with tifa and learn about his history with her that you realize oh, maybe this guy actually doesn't view aerith romantically.
The trouble is that people with shipping goggles on will never look at it in the full context. They refuse to see the Tifa/Cloud scenes as they are and refuse to see the logic in the narrative. So the wars will never end - even if SE gives us (more) explicit confessions and a Zerith end. People will see what they wanna see.
 

Rfcloud88

Lv. 25 Adventurer
AKA
Ichie
One of the reasons why the LTD is still going strong is because of the final trailer of Aerith singing lol. Clearly, the copium is high from that…despite the leaks shown. Imma say well done SE you baited well😂
 

eleamaya

Pro Adventurer
You know, although I'm a Zerith, this has been always my personal view of Clerith ship --mainly from Aerith's POV-- that I write anywhere:
Aerith developing genuine feelings for Cloud because she knows Zack has passed away (Nomura confirms), thus, struggle to move on and ended up being in love with Cloud in the process (regardless of his feelings for her). The starting point of her ready to let go of Zack's shadow in Cloud is on Gondola date when she wants to meet the real Cloud, ready to love someone new. To her, Cloud is more than a friend she deeply cares for—a second man she loves. And that's also because I believe Aerith's gondola date route is the canon one so it's inevitable.

(I dont count Maiden, so I believe she treasure all feelings equally. She loves both Ifalna & Elmyra. She loves both Zack & Cloud. Cherishing the dead in her memories and creating new memories with those who are alive and care for her)

And as a favorite character, I interpret her character arc as moving on and accepting fate, not only from the lost love she keeps telling herself that he is still alive, but also from her Cetra role since it makes people see her weird. Her loneliness comes from the missing boyfriend and being the only Cetra that no one understand her all those years. Having an adventure with comrade slowly ease her loneliness, she comes to have a new love, she also loves all of them that she wants to fight to protect them all and the planet. She's being selfless to come to Forgotten Capital alone but it's just an easy task (Kitase confirms) so she would return to them when it's done.

That's all my understanding.
But then, in this Remake Project, I have to reconstruct it.

In Remake ending, she's already being powerful using her Cetra power against Sephiroth.
In Rebirth, The game directs you to get Tifa's date when affection point between the girls is equal. There's also a dreamsphere date she has with Cloud --which it's her subconscious that every shopkeeper tell them not match contrast to what they say when she went on date with Zack, that Cloud himself see her as nakama, that she even question if this liking was that "liking"-- right before her death as if it's her last attempt to know if Cloud reciprocate her feelings while she's supposed to pray for Holy that represents Planet and everyone she loves living there. And that the date itself is like screaming at her, "this is wrong, all wrong."

JP script shows that Cloud would love to create new memories with her (as nakama of course). To me, that's what Aerith is supposed to do, not by recreating memories she ever had with the lost love with the new one. It's trying to replacing by all means, the opposite of creating two different memories she can cherish together. But maybe this is why Toriyama said that:

"You can't fall in love with me.
Even if you do, it's not real (just your imagination)."

is her also talking to herself.

And as I said before, I dont like the game make her somehow heavily centered around Cloud at that last moment. It's a little selfish. And it kills how she's supposed to fight the fate to the very end, that she wanna live against what fate dictate to her, that she doesn't even think to dying although knowing the risk, that she will come back to her comrades and tell her feelings to Cloud later after she finishes her duty.


I still need to see Rebirth version of Cosmo Canyon and Temple of Ancient to understand her in terms of Cetra race. But in terms of her life romance, should I be happy that she can't let go of Zack? In term of her character arc, I'm not happy. But this remind me of this quote:

"We can't move on without closure" (D.B Russel -- Crime Scene Investigation)
D.B Russel said that as he's very determine to solve the murder case for the parents who lose their son. This said son had been missing for 10 years when his remains was found. But without knowing what happens to him, Russel sympathize they can't move on yet. I think this is same as Aerith knowing that Zack was dead but NOT knowing where he had been in 5 years not replying her letters (Man, I hope Cissnei had told Zack's parents the truth too). It's only Cloud who can give her closure, no one else. So before he regains his true self back, Aerith can't move on yet. It has to be him who initiate since Aerith keep being hesitant to ask, not wanting to know and runaway from the truth. So it's fresh to see that even in gondola date, SOLDIER!Cloud attempts to tell Aerith that he knows Zack, although it's through girl talks with Tifa. And although she meets his true self if she was alive, she still couldn't end up with him because his real self has always loved someone else since they were kids (though I never expect that Rebirth make Cloud reject her already).

That's what I have to add that in Aerith's portrayal. A new flaw in her character.
And when she meets the truth as she watches from the Lifestream, also reunite with the first love she can't move on from; that's when she cherishes Cloud both as her friend and as someone she had loved.

Okay, I'm just rambling here.
Thank you for listening to my peep talks.
 
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Rfcloud88

Lv. 25 Adventurer
AKA
Ichie
You know, although I'm a Zerith, this has been always my personal view of Clerith ship --mainly from Aerith's POV-- that I write anywhere:
Aerith developing genuine feelings for Cloud because she knows Zack has passed away (Nomura confirms), thus, struggle to move on and ended up being in love with Cloud in the process (regardless of his feelings for her). The starting point of her ready to let go of Zack's shadow in Cloud is on Gondola date when she wants to meet the real Cloud, ready to love someone new. To her, Cloud is more than a friend she deeply cares for—a second man she loves. And that's also because I believe Aerith's gondola date route is the canon one so it's inevitable.

(I dont count Maiden, so I believe she treasure all feelings equally. She loves both Ifalna & Elmyra. She loves both Zack & Cloud. Cherishing the dead in her memories and creating new memories with those who are alive and care for her)

And as a favorite character, I interpret her character arc as moving on and accepting fate, not only from the lost love she keeps telling herself that he is still alive, but also from her Cetra role since it makes people see her weird. Her loneliness comes from the missing boyfriend and being the only Cetra that no one understand her all those years. Having an adventure with comrade slowly ease her loneliness, she comes to have a new love, she also loves all of them that she wants to fight to protect them all and the planet. She's being selfless to come to Forgotten Capital alone but it's just an easy task (Kitase confirms) so she would return to them when it's done.

That's all my understanding.
But then, in this Remake Project, I have to reconstruct it.

In Remake ending, she's already being powerful using her Cetra power against Sephiroth.
In Rebirth, The game directs you to get Tifa's date when affection point between the girls is equal. There's also a dreamsphere date she has with Cloud --which it's her subconscious that every shopkeeper tell them not match contrast to what they say when she went on date with Zack, that Cloud himself see her as nakama, that she even question if this liking was that "liking"-- right before her death as if it's her last attempt to know if Cloud reciprocate her feelings while she's supposed to pray for Holy that represents Planet and everyone she loves living there. And that the date itself is like screaming at her, "this is wrong, all wrong."

JP script shows that Cloud would love to create new memories with her (as nakama of course). To me, that's what Aerith is supposed to do, not by recreating memories she ever had with the lost love with the new one. It's trying to replacing by all means, not creating two different memories she can cherish together. But maybe this is why Toriyama said that:

"You can't fall in love with me.
Even if you do, it's not real (just your imagination)."

is her also talking to herself.

And as I said before, I dont like the game make her somehow heavily centered around Cloud at that moment. It's a little selfish. And it kills how she's supposed to fight the fate to the very end, that she wanna live against what fate dictate to her, that she doesn't even think to dying although knowing the risk, that she will come back to her comrades and tell her feelings to Cloud later after she finishes her duty.


I still need to see Rebirth version of Cosmo Canyon and Temple of Ancient to understand her in terms of Cetra race. But in terms of her life romance, should I be happy that she can't let go of Zack? In term of her character arc, I'm not happy. But this remind me of this quote:

"We can't move on without closure" (D.B Russel -- Crime Scene Investigation)
D.B Russel said that as he's very determine to solve the murder case for the parents who lose their son. This said son had been missing for 10 years when his remains was found. But without knowing what happens to him, Russel sympathize they can't move on yet. I think this is same as Aerith knowing that Zack was dead but NOT knowing where he had been in 5 years not replying her letters (Man, I hope Cissnei had told Zack's parents the truth too). It's only Cloud who can give her closure, no one else. So before he regains his true self back, Aerith can't move on yet. It has to be him who initiate since Aerith keep being hesitant to ask, not wanting to know and runaway from the truth. So it's fresh to see that even in gondola date, SOLDIER!Cloud attempts to tell Aerith that he knows Zack, although it's through girl talks with Tifa. And although she meets his true self if she was alive, she still couldn't end up with him because his real self has always loved someone else since they were kids (though I never expect that Rebirth make Cloud reject her already).

That's what I have to add that in Aerith's portrayal. A new flaw in her character.
And when she meets the truth as she watches from the Lifestream, also reunite with the first love she can't move on from; that's when she cherishes Cloud both as her friend and as someone she had loved.

Okay, I'm just rambling here.
Thank you for listening to my peep talks.
That’s a good way to put it. I respect your input👍 I agree she is trying to move on.
 

eleamaya

Pro Adventurer
One of the reasons why the LTD is still going strong is because of the final trailer of Aerith singing lol.
I never watch The Greatest Showman, so when I saw Clotis tweet about it; I checked Wiki what it is then I understand the parallel. If those Cleriths were really aware of what kind of movie Nomura gets inspiration from, they should not cheer the theme song. It's unrequited love.

That’s a good way to put it. I respect your input👍 she is trying to move on
Thanks.

Though, my point is...
Before Rebirth leaks, I see she's eventually able to move on despite struggling, because it's her character arc.
Now after Rebirth leaks (I still need to see the full context after it's released though), it turns out she can't do despite trying.
 
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