SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

abzy1200

Pro Adventurer
I ship CT, but don't necessarily ship ZA. I do want ZA to get their proper ending, but i'm not really invested in the pairing itself.
I'm kinda the same, Cloti is the only ship I really care about when it comes to this game, but Zerith was also one of my favourite parts about Crisis core, so I am rooting for them as well, I'm just not quite as vocal about it.

For me the LTD is done, the answer has been clear since 1997. I’m tired of seeing the absolute worst takes from each side now and definitely think people are
Stories have twists and turns, and often things are not black and white. But some of the extreme shippers, on both sides mind you, view it through that lens. If I may be so bold, I would posit that these people aren’t actually fans of FF7 if they see these characters the way they do.
I think it honestly could just be fatigue from arguing, on both sides. The toxicity it has sparked 100% has had it's influence on the way people view these characters.

I think that the people who spread these hateful takes are sort of like Montagues and Capulets from Romeo and Juliet, they forgot why they were fighting but refuse to reconcile because of lingering resentment, but that only spirals into more bad takes and toxicity.
By Advent Children they are together again. The Devs have been building to showing us how, indeed, they could not open Pandora's box early or Aerith would get no closure with Cloud at all. I guarantee you, without a single doubt, we'll be smiling come part 3.
Maybe this is how angst works in stories like this, I don't know. But reconciling her feelings for Cloud when she presumably meets back up with Zack is going to be sticky and we can't write it off as delusion on her part anymore. All this means is that Zack might be shortchanged once again as a rebound for a rebound while being dead (bloody hell).

Idk, to me if Aerith wants to have conflicting feelings then just let Zack go and she is free to koibito away for blondie. Zack deserves better than being a punching bag even by implication.

There are also darker implications which I don't want to say fully. All I will say is that if this is not resolved properly, then Aerith keeping Zack conscious in the lifestream is very icky. Striking resemblance to what hardcore CAs wanted for Zack for years, in fact.
Also, I don't really know if this is relevant or if an argument can be made from it, but the devs chose to give the title "Reunion" (a title I think a lot of us were expecting to be reserved for the third part of the Re;trilogy) to a game where Zack is front and centre, the protagonist. Zack then spends the entirety of Rebirth trying to help Aerith(and Cloud), to "reunite" with her.
 

LNK

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Nate
I think I'd much prefer this to be honest. We already have some idea as to what happened after Advent Children, but, forgive me if I'm wrong, the same is not true for Dirge of Cerberus.

I think maybe a short epilogue for both might be appreciated? Might feel a bit unnecessary but it would be nice.
Yeah, I think epilogues for ALL the characters would be a really good way to go. Nothing will ever be good enough for the extreme shippers though. The devs should just continue telling their story
 

Hellenic

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Hellenic
Well, not that I would disagree entirely. It's true that Zack's role is yet to be fleshed out fully so it's ok he's not mentioned in the Ultimania much.

But the fodder for CA thing is not impossible. They've already sort of done it in the game. The ultimania states that Aerith's GS date was a "confession" to Cloud. I know there were all sorts of arguments before how she was just seeing Zack in Cloud. But seems pretty clear cut to me that she's expressed a desire to move on (whether Cloud reciprocates is another thing entirely).

Maybe this is how angst works in stories like this, I don't know. But reconciling her feelings for Cloud when she presumably meets back up with Zack is going to be sticky and we can't write it off as delusion on her part anymore. All this means is that Zack might be shortchanged once again as a rebound for a rebound while being dead (bloody hell).

Idk, to me if Aerith wants to have conflicting feelings then just let Zack go and she is free to koibito away for blondie. Zack deserves better than being a punching bag even by implication.

There are also darker implications which I don't want to say fully. All I will say is that if this is not resolved properly, then Aerith keeping Zack conscious in the lifestream is very icky. Striking resemblance to what hardcore CAs wanted for Zack for years, in fact.
She is trying to move on from Zack, but she clearly isn't able to and we get our clear conclusion in the dream date that Aerith herself wasn't sure what kinda like she ultimately felt towards Cloud, but she factually can't get over Zack and they will play into that in the next game.
 

c.lupara

Pro Adventurer
How can you still think this, when in Re trilogy they're leaning even more into CT & ZA in regards to the romantic stuff? Like seriously. They are letting their story speak for itself, which is what they've done since the beginning. They don't need to tell a really small percentage of the fanbase what is/isn't canon. That small percentage of fans need get real, and realize relations that people have in life, aren't always so black and white.
I agree. this morning, when I wrote that comment, I was a bit "angry" because I had read some ultimania stuff; obviously wrong translation leads to a wrong interpretation. Even the appointments at the GS are not that they are not "canon" but they are simply not "canon" in the story while they are "canon" for the way in which all the characters relate to this event.
 

AncientGrimoire

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Grim
I think what we are seeing, is a reckoning with the reality of what the retrilogy is able to properly convey and show, something the original wasn’t able to do.

The original had some incredible cinematic direction, tremendous art and visual design given the limitations to a reliance on the pre-rendered backgrounds of the era, and all the presentation style of (and I hate to say this in a way that may sound critical but I mean it to be endearing) a high school diorama project.

The characters are these funny, polygonal blocks of expressionless digital LEGO. They move around in highly exaggerated movements, because that’s one of the very few ways they are able to appropriately send a message to the audience as to what a certain character is feeling in any given moment. And we of course have the dialogue boxes.

But they only tell us so much.

As much as any written down piece of text can be misread and misinterpreted any which way to suit an agenda, or fit a pre established reading, so too can very limited movement of expression be taken to be read in any way that comes to suit a preexisting idea of what we want to interpret it as.

So when Kazushige Nojima, at the very advent of this remake project, expressed his fears, that due to the nature of the progression of technology, and what they are now able to show with the incredibly realistic character models and graphics, that things would no longer be open to interpretation, it was essentially the warning bell.

That what could be argued as subtext in the original, would become the text. Because that was always the intention, it was just lost, either in translation, or misinterpretation due to the limitations of the presentation of the original.

Nearly everything they’ve done thus far in this remake project, from the games themselves to the expanded materials, not only honours and follows through on what was in the original text all along, but it also does exactly what Nojima says it would.

It’s presented in a way where it simply isn’t open to interpretation anymore. Despite what some of the very loud corners of the internet and fandom may want others to be gaslit into believing, things have been so heavily telegraphed at this point I am honestly surprised not only at the continued ignorance of some who refuse to see the way the wind has been blowing since 1997, but also at those who still are doubtful at them following through, when we have mountains of evidence even before the Ultimania, of the writers and developers absolutely doubling down on where things are going, have always been going.

This is nothing to say of the many ways the stories in the games and novellas have in greater depth explored just why it is that Cloud would find himself never ceasing in his devotion to Tifa, nor his desire to be someone special to her. Why Tifa too would find herself falling for Cloud, who she once saw as something so remote and unreachable, but exhibits in her actions and emotions just how much she has always and will always be the one person who is able to find him, reach out to him, and bring him back.

Why Zack will never, no matter the crisis, no matter the dimension, cease in his unwavering determination and will to reunite with Aerith, the woman he loved so much he originally died in his quest to reunite with her.

And why Aerith, who has come to forge new bonds and friendships, experience love in so many ways on her journey, will always find herself drawn back to the man who inspired in her, and gave her the confidence to love herself first and always choose to be a force for kindness in a world that seeks to tear us apart from those we love.

All of this is so blatant and heavily entrenched in the games, the novellas, illuminated further by developer interviews and now the Ultimania… it really does just all fit so neatly together, that there shouldn’t be any doubt as to which direction this train that we are on will take us.
 

Ryeleigh

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Rye
In regards to Aerith and her feelings for Zack and Cloud, people should keep in mind that Cloud is currently kind of like a walking talking ghost of Zack (which is not to say that he doesn't have his own personality or that he's an exact copy of Zack). He has the same sword, he has the same eyes, he has the same mannerisms, and he falls through the roof of Aerith's church like Zack. It's no wonder the poor girl's feelings are confused; it's amazing that she's as well-adjusted about it as she is.
 

Sacky

Pro Adventurer
AKA
SackyBoy
This is unrelated to the topics being discussed right now, so I'm sorry in advance, but I just feel the need to talk about it since I saw a post about it on my Twitter timeline.

When will the notion that Tifa was lying to Cloud/gaslighting him ever fade away?

It's an even worse argument nowadays though, because if anything, the only person lying/lying by omission in the re;trilogy is Aerith. Forgive me if I get this wrong, but didn't Aerith know she was going to die during Remake? That Cloud is living a lie? That Cloud will be manipulated into giving Sephiroth planet destroying materia? and all she left were ominous, vague warnings? That's probably something you should tell a trusted adult but she only ever told Red XIII and MARLENE, a four year old girl over the people who would actually benefit from this information.

Not to mention Aerith herself is (I think) in cahoots with Tifa about Cloud's mental state and how Tifa's recollection of the Nibelheim incident is different, that Cloud wasn't present. So Aerith is also technically "lying by omission" in the exact same way Tifa is supposedly "lying by omission" to Cloud during the re;trilogy.

and it paints Aerith in an even worse light when you add that on top of the fact that she showed visions to a four year old girl as opposed to the guy who actually needs to hear about his delusions, supposedly. According to Cleriths, Tifa is some kind of "bitch" who doesn't deserve or isn't suited to Cloud for not telling him about his incorrect memories when Tifa herself didn't know the full truth. I mean, if someone from my past showed up with a different recollection of a past traumatic experience I had in which that person was not present, but were claiming they were and retelling the incident with scary levels of accuracy, I would start doubting myself as well.

Aerith is guilty of everything Cleriths accuse Tifa of in regards to "lying" and then some. So if Tifa doesn't deserve Cloud because she was "lying" to him, then Aerith definitely doesn't.

This kind of miscommunication and angst is a huge part of the emotional conflict surrounding the sub-plot of ff7; Clouds identity, and it has to be this way for the story to be compelling, so that you can be invested in it, because bare in mind, the player is ALSO supposed to be in the dark about the truth. Cloud is an unreliable narrator, after all.

That's why it's not fair to judge either woman for "lying" to Cloud, and why neither are "lying bitches" . Tifa doesn't withhold her own recollection from Cloud in bad faith like Cleriths claim she does, and Aerith doesn't withhold information in bad faith either.

Those are my thoughts on this tired, entirely self-defeating argument, so I'm sorry if this felt more like a rant than a "debunking".

and also, If you feel like any of this was inaccurate, please feel free correct me or take me up on it.

Use their own arguments against them, if Cloud is allowed to love two women equally that he's "conflicted" between (not btw), then Aerith is also allowed to love two men equally that she's "conflicted" between.

Eh, I don't really know about my own argument that I've just made, but I'm putting it out there anyways.


I think I'd much prefer this to be honest. We already have some idea as to what happened after Advent Children, but, forgive me if I'm wrong, the same is not true for Dirge of Cerberus.

I think maybe a short epilogue for both might be appreciated? Might feel a bit unnecessary but it would be nice.
the people making these claims arent doing it because they are actually confused. They just want to paint Tifas character in a bad light, They will continue to do this, but if people just ignore them or mute them or whatever who cares. Theres always going to be toxic people but that doesn't mean we have to respond we cant change any biased opinion so just enjoy the actual story and let them make there tweets and threads, or whatever cause it wont change the story and all the great stuff we have to look forward to!
 

nepheneethedestroyer

Lv. 25 Adventurer
Cloud/Aerith: I think the characterization that Aerith spends the whole game trying to drag Cloud around a bunch of dates is unfair (ignoring the GS dates since everyone gets that, there's really only the Costa del Sol side quest, and the "dream date" - which, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Aerith nor the game ever explicitly calls this a "date" though obviously it feels like one. The story summary just calls it a "stroll"), but I can see why some people might get the impression after the scene in Kalm. If Aerith considers the Clock Tower conversation a "date," even though they pretty much talked about Tifa the whole time, then it's not too much of a stretch to think that she considers every one-on-one interaction with Cloud "a date" or to read romantic motivations behind every conversation she has with him. That's definitely not the devs' intended interpretation, but that is the inevitable consequence of having a moment like this so early in the game.

Aerith/Tifa: This one really bums me out because Aerith and Tifa's relationship in Remake was so fun and refreshing because they took away all the petty jealousy from their first meeting that was present in the OG. So when they spent the entirety of the Sewers chapter getting to know each other better while teasing or ignoring Cloud, I totally bought it. Here, they go back to that dynamic the moment they get to the Grasslands, but it just felt so shallow/surface level. Like they're only playing pretend by not addressing the elephant in the room.

This really is a place where I think having more women on the team would have helped. Because look at it from Tifa's perspective...she confides in Aerith about her relationship with Cloud the night before and finds out that Aerith takes Cloud out on a date the very next morning. Tifa is not a confrontational person, so I don't think it's out of character for her to not bring it up, but it just makes all the interactions between her and Aerith feel very shallow and almost two-faced. Do they address it when they talk about their "first loves" sometime between the Shinra Cruiser and Gongaga? Maybe! But if they did, they really ought to have shown us.

This is a super late reply, lol. I'm sure it'll be lost in the shuffle of Ultimania (my copy can't get here soon enough!)

FWIW, Aerith calls the little section where her and Tifa have to play minigames to get their beach outfits a "date," I think she just calls any one-on-one outing a date. That being said, I agree that the Aerith/Tifa relationship can feel a little unpleasant from Aerith's end because of this sort of thing. I saw this on Twitter and I can't find the original post, but...two people who express romantic interest in the same person are usually not friends. It definitely feels a little callous and barbed on Aerith's part to grab on to Cloud's arm or say things are dates when Tifa has confided in her.

I considered that maybe due to the lost memories thing, she went from like "100% cheerleader mode" to like "50% cheerleader mode" where she's both testing the waters of her own feelings but also trying to be as supportive of Tifa as she can but like...this goes back to what I wrote earlier--that's a really, really difficult dynamic to navigate.
 

LunarTarotGirl

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Lunarae
I could be wrong but doesn't Tifa say "first love story next time" on the way to Costa which is after Kalm? So Tifa must have confided in her after right?. Then we find out they talked before Gongaga because Tifa knows about Zack then.

And aren't her memories erased?

So I don't know but maybe at that point in Kalm she didn't realize Tifa would be upset, when again Aerith sees spending any time with precious people as dates. She's not seeing it like a super serious thing which is why she mentions hanging out with Tifa as a date in the Grasslands.

She could have found out later in more detail and you do kinda see her physically keep her distance from Cloud for the rest of the game after Costa del Sol.

I always found it interesting that they point out in Junon that Aerith is upset about the flower. The one she had giggled "Oooo who'd you give it to?" In Remake. I think these scenes exist not to insert rivalry but to contrast with Remake so that we pay attention and connect the dots on the extent of her memory loss.
 
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nepheneethedestroyer

Lv. 25 Adventurer
I could be wrong but doesn't Tifa say "first love story next time" on the way to Costa which is after Kalm? So Tifa must have confided in her after right?. Then we find out they talked before Gongaga because Tifa knows about Zack then.

And aren't her memories erased?

So I don't know but maybe at that point in Kalm she didn't realize Tifa would be upset, when again Aerith sees spending any time with people as dates. She's not seeing it like a super serious thing which is why she mentions hanging out with Tifa as a date in the Grasslands.

She could have found out later in more detail and you do kinda see her physically keep her distance from Cloud for the rest of the game after Costa del Sol.

I always found it interesting that they point out in Junon that Aerith is upset about the flower. The one she had giggled "Oooo who'd you give it to?" In Remake. I think these scenes exist not to insert rivalry but to contrast with Remake so that we pay attention and connect the dots on the extent of her memory loss.
Yeah, that scene in the cargo bay (where the Aerith half of ToTP takes place) is on the way to Costa. I misremembered, based on the dialogue on the ship Tifa hasn't told Aerith specifically how she feels about Cloud, I would guess. Though Aerith is pretty perceptive about that sort of thing, I guess (though maybe not as much as Marlene?). Tifa does confide in Aerith about some general Nibelheim Incident discrepancy stuff after Cloud's story when they're rooming together in the inn at Kalm, but I suppose that's more plot oriented stuff.

But I could see Remake!Aerith viewing Cloud and Tifa as like "these two idiots have to get their stuff sorted to save the world" whereas Rebirth!Aerith (early-game) is like "my friend has a crush on this guy but I also feel something too." And then at some point Tifa and Aerith talk it out more, presumably pre-Chapter 9, as they seem pretty tight-knit and operating on the same page at that point.

I always found it interesting that they point out in Junon that Aerith is upset about the flower. The one she had giggled "Oooo who'd you give it to?" In Remake. I think these scenes exist not to insert rivalry but to contrast with Remake so that we pay attention and connect the dots on the extent of her memory loss.

Yeah, though they probably could have opted to display that in a different way without inviting some...discourse then, haha. I did find that line a bit pointedly out of place given Aerith's previous vibes. Red XIII is even more explicit about this in his high affinity GS date, I kind of wish they hadn't locked that behind a choice-based outcome. It would have been much better served to just be a mandatory chat.
 

LunarTarotGirl

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AKA
Lunarae
Yeah, that scene in the cargo bay (where the Aerith half of ToTP takes place) is on the way to Costa. I misremembered, based on the dialogue on the ship Tifa hasn't told Aerith specifically how she feels about Cloud, I would guess. Though Aerith is pretty perceptive about that sort of thing, I guess (though maybe not as much as Marlene?). Tifa does confide in Aerith about some general Nibelheim Incident discrepancy stuff after Cloud's story when they're rooming together in the inn at Kalm, but I suppose that's more plot oriented stuff.

But I could see Remake!Aerith viewing Cloud and Tifa as like "these two idiots have to get their stuff sorted to save the world" whereas Rebirth!Aerith (early-game) is like "my friend has a crush on this guy but I also feel something too." And then at some point Tifa and Aerith talk it out more, presumably pre-Chapter 9, as they seem pretty tight-knit and operating on the same page at that point.



Yeah, though they probably could have opted to display that in a different way without inviting some...discourse then, haha. I did find that line a bit pointedly out of place given Aerith's previous vibes. Red XIII is even more explicit about this in his high affinity GS date, I kind of wish they hadn't locked that behind a choice-based outcome. It would have been much better served to just be a mandatory chat.
Yeah they seem to talk several times right? A little bit in Kalm, then before Gongaga then after Gongaga and before returning to the Gold Saucer. And you can see the difference. In the first Gold Saucer date Aerith has no qualm at all telling Cloud that there is a special for couples at the Sky Wheel and in her second date she seems a lot more hesitant and so she asks "At least till the ride is over" even after basically confessing her feelings.

You also see her whisper to Tifa apparently "Everything will be alright" in Gongaga.

I think over time she realized the extent of Tifa's feelings and that's why we see this shift.

But yeah she still likes him so she tells him, but I think it's more to find out what to do about her feelings. She never seems to expect anything back.
 

Rin

Pro Adventurer
I always found it interesting that they point out in Junon that Aerith is upset about the flower. The one she had giggled "Oooo who'd you give it to?" In Remake. I think these scenes exist not to insert rivalry but to contrast with Remake so that we pay attention and connect the dots on the extent of her memory loss.
I don't know how accurate it is, but I've heard some fans on Twitter say that this line isn't quite translated properly. In JP, she's not upset that he gave the flower away, she's supposedly giving Cloud advice on how to properly "be" with Tifa--as in don't give her a "regift" but pick out something special for her in particular. I remember it was one of the scenes people were heavily complaining about in regards to the localization. Either way, I find what she's saying there to not really make much sense from a character POV.

Either she's upset that he gave it away (after she told him to, depending on your dialogue choices). Or she's upset that he had to be given the idea to do something thoughtful for Tifa. But both are things not really worth Aerith being upset over and I don't know why it comes up at that moment, either.
 

Stiggie

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Stiggie
Maybe this is how angst works in stories like this, I don't know. But reconciling her feelings for Cloud when she presumably meets back up with Zack is going to be sticky and we can't write it off as delusion on her part anymore. All this means is that Zack might be shortchanged once again as a rebound for a rebound while being dead (bloody hell).
I have no idea how you came to this conclusion, I don't even know how it's relevant to whether or not she's delusional.
I ship CT, but don't necessarily ship ZA. I do want ZA to get their proper ending, but i'm not really invested in the pairing itself.
I ship both equally in a way, I prefer Tifa to Aerith, but I prefer Zack to Cloud. And I love both relationships. Only reason I'm more invested in Cloti because that's essentially where the battle lines have been drawn. It's what I've argued over, so it's what I'm invested in.
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
I have no idea how you came to this conclusion, I don't even know how it's relevant to whether or not she's delusional.

I ship both equally in a way, I prefer Tifa to Aerith, but I prefer Zack to Cloud. And I love both relationships. Only reason I'm more invested in Cloti because that's essentially where the battle lines have been drawn. It's what I've argued over, so it's what I'm invested in.
Tifa is my favorite character in FF7, followed by Zack. So we’re not so different, you and I.

Then it’s probably Cloud, Sephiroth and Vincent in that order.
 

overheat28

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Overheat
I have no idea how you came to this conclusion, I don't even know how it's relevant to whether or not she's delusional.

I ship both equally in a way, I prefer Tifa to Aerith, but I prefer Zack to Cloud. And I love both relationships. Only reason I'm more invested in Cloti because that's essentially where the battle lines have been drawn. It's what I've argued over, so it's what I'm invested in.
Perhaps delusional was the wrong word.

My meaning was since Ultimania basically confirmed Aerith's "confession" to want to be with the real Cloud (I have heard she says differently in Japanese, but can't confirm), the date scene cannot be dismissed as merely using him as a Zack stand in anymore. She clearly voices a desire to move on.

This necessarily complicates any reconciliation with Zack. If this is not resolved properly, then the reunion and their future relationship are effectively compromised.

Although, if the GS dates are to be considered separate from the story, then the point might well be moot. I was not aware of this before.
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
Perhaps delusional was the wrong word.

My meaning was since Ultimania basically confirmed Aerith's "confession" to want to be with the real Cloud (I have heard she says differently in Japanese, but can't confirm), the date scene cannot be dismissed as merely using him as a Zack stand in anymore. She clearly voices a desire to move on.

This necessarily complicates any reconciliation with Zack. If this is not resolved properly, then the reunion and their future relationship are effectively compromised.

Although, if the GS dates are to be considered separate from the story, then the point might well be moot. I was not aware of this before.
I think she wants to meet the Real Cloud but she’s not 100% sure of her feelings. And who knows if she would feel the same for the real Cloud.

And I don’t think a good reconciliation is off the table at all. People can have loving emotions for multiple people, in the end, I’d imagine that after everything Aerith can still reunite with Zack and become 100% that he is who he’d want to be with. This is just angst and an angle many romance stories have played in the past.

Again, Zack is just going off what Marlene said… and Aerith, as we see in the church isn’t actually wholly sure how her feelings are.

I understand if you’re concerned but I don’t think this necessarily means she doesn’t still love Zack. She definitely does. She says as much in Gongaga.

The Ultimania confirms that she feels it’s wrong to use him as a stand-in for Zack so she wants to give the real Cloud a chance… but that doesn’t also mean Zack is for sure in the past either. She just wants to be fair to Cloud and see if she can feel the same emotions for another person as she did for Zack. But that doesn’t mean that… her love for Zack is just gone. If at this point, Zack came back into her life, those emotions would flood back.

I don’t think it’s nearly as messy as you seem to be taking it as. I guess I understand your apprehension though.

However, a Zerith resolution is for sure still on the table.
 
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Rin

Pro Adventurer
My meaning was since Ultimania basically confirmed Aerith's "confession" to want to be with the real Cloud (I have heard she says differently in Japanese, but can't confirm), the date scene cannot be dismissed as merely using him as a Zack stand in anymore. She clearly voices a desire to move on.

I think people have been misunderstanding this scene since 1997.

Aerith isn't really saying that she wants to be in a romantic relationship with the Real Cloud. This is scene is all about Aerith communicating to Cloud that her initial attraction to him was because of his similarities to Zack and that she is trying to see past those similarities and connect with the real him.

She's not saying that she's over Zack.
She's not saying that she's in love with Cloud.
She's not saying that she wants to BE with Cloud.

She's saying that her viewpoint of him was clouded and that she's trying to gain clarity. She recognizes that Zack and Cloud are not the same person and that's okay with her because right now, in this moment on the gondola, she just wants to enjoy her time with CLOUD. However, she can't really do that because Cloud is not himself and this is the tragedy of it all. She wants to see Cloud for who he is and get to know him (in JP she specifically says "I want to meet you") but she can't because Cloud doesn't know who he really is yet.

If anything, it's more of a confession that Aerith is unable to actually fall in love with Cloud for as long as he is not his true self.
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
I would add that personally I’m not even sure that Aerith would fall for the real Cloud, because his personality is far remote from Zack’s whom she truly loved so much and so desperately that she hadn’t really moved on by the dream date (technically yes not the same Aerith but same idea I think).

I mean compare with Tifa and Zack: her interest in him is in the negative as she’s absolutely not in this kind of man and wants Cloud. I feel that confronted with the real Cloud, Aerith may feel similarly. That plus any man that much into another woman is truly a big turnoff usually.
 

nars305

🎵 I am so, so bored 🎶
I think over time she realized the extent of Tifa's feelings and that's why we see this shift.

But yeah she still likes him so she tells him, but I think it's more to find out what to do about her feelings. She never seems to expect anything back.
I honestly understand if Aerith wanted to confess even if she was aware of Tifa’s feelings. Even if she also thought Cloud also had mutual feelings with Tifa.

It’d be something like how in some romances the person knows they’ll be rejected, but they want to be in order to move on. Just shooting the shot regardless of anything.

I still find it to be a wrench in their dynamic though.
 

insanehobbit

Pro Adventurer
If the game wanted to depict Aerith actually moving on, it wouldn't have her bring up Zack while she's with Cloud.

If Aerith had actually moved on, she'd reconcile her feelings for Zack on her own/before the date, and then the Gondola would just be about her feelings for Cloud, without the Zack of it all muddying things.

There's no reason for her to be externalizing her interior monologue like this, in this particular setting, if she's actually moved on. She's saying this aloud, on a date with Cloud, because she's trying to convince herself.

Zack's ghost lingers in every "romantic" moment between Aerith and Cloud, either because she brings him up verbally like she does here, or like in Ch. 14 where the game cuts to his scenes in between their "date." It is impossible to disentangle Aerith's (romantic) feelings for Cloud from her feelings for Zack, and that is by design.

The CA "romance" is and has always been a mirage, a plot device, a vessel to develop the Zerith relationship in the present (which would be hard to do otherwise given that half the couple is dead), and to explore Cloud's identity crisis.

Right before the Ch. 12 GS date, we have the part of Zack's story where Marlene tells him Aerith likes Cloud. Right before the Ch. 14 "dream date," Zack asks Marlene about Aerith's feelings for Cloud. That these take place right before two seemingly "romantic' moments between Aerith and Cloud is no coincidence. The game is deliberately reminding us of Zack for a reason.

We're at part 2 of 3. All this is just to add a bit of tension/doubt before the inevitable conclusion. Honestly, if it was all smooth sailing for Zerith at the end of Rebirth, then I'd be worried, because it could only come crashing down in part 3. As it stands, we're at a low point in their story, but there's only one direction it can go.
 

thetriplerhyme

Pro Adventurer
AKA
thetriplerhyme
Btw guys the lipsync Aerith did in Chapter 9 when Tifa returns from lifestream is confirmed by ultimania "I'm so relieve"

( Sorry btw have to post it here this seems to be most active)


Seems nojima was intrigued with idea of just lip moving ( no subtitles) hence he proposed it ( i told you he's a cad) hahah
 
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Rin

Pro Adventurer
I would add that personally I’m not even sure that Aerith would fall for the real Cloud, because his personality is far remote from Zack’s whom she truly loved so much and so desperately that she hadn’t really moved on by the dream date (technically yes not the same Aerith but same idea I think).

I mean compare with Tifa and Zack: her interest in him is in the negative as she’s absolutely not in this kind of man and wants Cloud. I feel that confronted with the real Cloud, Aerith may feel similarly. That plus any man that much into another woman is truly a big turnoff usually.
Yeah, I agree. There's no promise that Aerith would be romantically interested in the real Cloud and tbh, I don't believe that she would be. The real Cloud is not her type lol. There's a reason Clouds SOLDIER persona strengthens around women like Aerith and Jessie and weaken around women like Tifa. It's because the former like the persona and the latter hates it.
 
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