GamerSkull
Pro Adventurer
Reminds me…. I want closure for the Fair parents too. C’mon.
Yeah though I definitely think before Remake it was treated seperately like lifestream white outright said she loved Cloud romantically without that confusion on her part "for she had loved him". Even if it's not canon older guides like Dismantled made a distinction too. Funny enough it was Maiden which travels the Planet that had her confused.Oh I never knew/realized Cloud was supposed to be oblivious to both girls in OG. It’s just my opinion that his portrayal is a bit different in the Retrilogy though, because I surmised that if he’s capable of initiating romantic acts himself, it just makes sense to think that he’s gotta have awareness to some extent.
Also maybe it’s just my attachment to Zerith but I’ve never considered Aerith’s feelings for Zack and Cloud to be equivalent it’s hard to see CA romantically when the romantic aspect of their relationship can’t exist in a vacuum since it was always provoked by Aerith’s lingering fondness of her first love (and this was true in OG too, maybe until the GS date), but even afterwards in ACC they treat Cloud as a big kid, and that big kid made a joint monument for them so to me it’s consistent with Retrilogy’s portrayal how Cloud remembers Zack to be “Aerith’s man” the one she misses and yearns for because he understands her loss.
Which is why I think whether or not ACC will still be the direct sequel of the Retrilogy, it’s still going to be a main reference on how the devs approach the story and characters moving forward.
I take this to mean Aerith talking about SOLDIER!Cloud (mostly, though I assume due to her overall presence in the Lifestream that she could have peeked in on the party's adventures with "real" Cloud at any point), which I actually think is sweet. Putting aside any "long-term feasibility" arguments, I did always feel like Aerith settled on liking "that" Cloud (SOLDIER!Cloud) for his own merits, despite any initial feelings being perhaps mired in the similarities towards Zack, while Tifa was always a little confused by the differences (in OG).Yeah though I definitely think before Remake it was treated seperately like lifestream white outright said she loved Cloud romantically without that confusion on her part.
Of course not. My wife. My touchy.
In the series finale she meets Johnny and decides "Okay, they are normal... in comparison."
Even Nuclear would be a better option, really, but yes, wind and solar as well.
Aye. It's sad.
Nah, Anastar was the old master, fallen as the hate of the old apprentice makes them the new master.
And you arrive precisely when you mean to?
It pops up. Never mind that repeatedly it's described as "the family [Cloud and Tifa] were forming in edge," Four year old Marlene is the true arbiter of the family unit.
But does your roommate continue to hang about around your bed in the middle of the night while you sleep? That's the part that's strange for a roommate but not for a lover. If you pass out on the couch and roommate sticks around that's one thing, because that's the public part of the house. Your bedroom is another matter entirely.
It's away from Tifa but without intending to be, was what I was trying to get at.
That was some of the classic nonsense on Anastar's old site. Her and FFG.
Yeah, that's why it is important to pop up and say "that's not correct" every so often.
Sometimes outright lies too.
I believe there's an ever in there as well, but yes. Many years ago, when I was extremely frustrated I compiled a list, I think I called it the short simple list or something like that, and it was just a bunch of statements, from developers, about C/T, about how they belonged together or were special or unique to each other. That line was on the list.
Always huh? I guess as a Clerith I have to hate Tifa by default then. No choice.
In fact I hated Tifa so much I had a blog post on how Cloud's answer to Do you love Marlene is supposed to be his answer to Tifa's "Do you love me?" And the answer being yes but I just don't know how to act around her sometimes. Which was what kicked off my series of essays on ACC. I was kinda facinated by the writing style in COT.
What can I say. Nothing is stopping my fated rage towards her.
Hm. Though I have to say. I really like listening to people who have no idea about LTD stuff try to puzzle it out. My husband does like romance he just doesn't care for any debates about it. While I'm all for debates because I like arguing I guess.
It's funny how different outside perspectives can be. Also very insightful. And I really think the main people you need to convince are those outsiders and more casual fans to end the LTD not the people entrenched in the war for years. And I think ReTrilogy is on the way to do just that.
I'm half joking. Don't worry about it. But also it's frustating that this is definitely a common sentiment because of how Loud the vocal ones are. They drown everyone else out.
But in seriousness even my mutuals who still think CA is canon also don't hate Tifa. In fact some like her more than you would think. It's just we get labled as Not CAs when that happens so I can see how the impression came about. The most vocal are the ones that are associated the most with the fandom while the rest are just kind of in the corner. Some are just waiting and seeing how ReTrilogy turns out.
And as I mentioned I do definitely think the LTD from the inside looks much worse than it is,
but from the outside the general audience just goes with whatever they see on screen.
And CT and ZA have been a lot more pushed recently so more people do accept it.
You also just have these outside audience go with whatever they see of the character so they generally like them and are not mischaractizing them.
And I think in general these people will eventually just outnumber the more stubborn vocal and extreme fans.
I actually happened to watch that theory session they had too and unless i'm totally off, didn't they imply that the Lifestream sequence should be some kinda big general event this time around instead of just being revolved around Cloud and Tifa? At least i got that kinda impression when they brought it up. Definitely not on board with that idea if it was what they suggested.I believe the "its not a romance game" people are just intimidated by the LTD, they want nothing to do with it so they convince themselves it doesn't matter. But I find this completely delusional and I think that without recognizing the LTD you really can't talk about the game in any meaningful way. I notice this when I watch stuff like Maximillian dood, night sky prince, Sleepezi, and others having a conversation about theories concerning Remake part 3.
It's all about mechanics and "what is happening" when that approach is completely impotent if you don't first address the underlying "why". What themes are being addressed here? What life lessons are being taught here, what human experience are they trying to have us experience?
Cloud is our main character, it is mainly through his journey that we learn whatever it is that the games story can teach us, and if you don't first recognize Clouds emotional state and how these events intersect with that then you have no basis for saying what will happen, because without the "why" there is no point, they are just events happening in order without a greater picture being sketched. So yeah, it's great that they're talking about how maybe Sephiroth will convince Cloud that he killed Aerith, but without the underlying understanding that Cloud has to accept loss and how that's related to Nibelheim and Tifa and failure and all those things then you can't tell if this take is in any way likely.
Because the themes dictate the events, because the events are happening in order to tell us a story, the events themselves aren't the story, Clouds experience is the story, and that's contingent on who he is and what he is feeling and why.
That just shows they don’t understand the scene to begin with. The reason it’s Tifa is because she is the only one who can confirm who the True Cloud is… because she was the only one who knew him prior to the events in the story.I actually happened to watch that theory session they had too and unless i'm totally off, didn't they imply that the Lifestream sequence should be some kinda big general event this time around instead of just being revolved around Cloud and Tifa? At least i got that kinda impression when they brought it up. Definitely not on board with that idea if it was what they suggested.
I actually happened to watch that theory session they had too and unless i'm totally off, didn't they imply that the Lifestream sequence should be some kinda big general event this time around instead of just being revolved around Cloud and Tifa? At least i got that kinda impression when they brought it up. Definitely not on board with that idea if it was what they suggested.
Yeah pretty much exactly my thoughts. Like as I said I don't think it's unclear but it's executed in a way that really feels unsatisfying. Like first yeah it's a bit out of character for her to not just say it. And also because now it's like did even SHE love him romantically? No? Ok then what was the point? Which contradicts the compilation in terms of her feelings. And if she did love him romantically? Yes? Then okay again what is the point?Its strange; it feels like they wanted to have their cake and eat it too, with that scene. It was either a confession or i like you but not romantically. but it feels out of character for Aerith with her last chance to not be able to say her feelings when all the time she's been a very upfront character.
So in the end, all we have are these conclusions
1 It was her admiting she is confused about her feelings and doesnt truly know even after her date and all the time
2 It was a confession and she was just shy but Cloud didn't understand or changed it by derailing the conversation
3 It was a confession and she just made it confusing
4 It was not a confession, but her admitting that theres different kinds of like and its not romantic since she quickly said this.
5 She didnt want to confess since she knew she was dying so made it confusing on purpose
Either way depending on how you view the relationships, its a different answer. Ambigious on purpose to not annoy anyone. However, with this confusion, it now creates more arguments and sorta gives false hope. Whats really weird though is the alternate phrase Cloud can say since its not High affection to trigger it. Seemingly no one actually knows what causes the difference and the end conversation ends the same with Cloud saying your being weird?. Its noticeable worse written than the other scenes its quite jarring. For Aerith's resolution i honestly believe its been retconned i went into Rebirth expecting that plot line and it was not in the main story there was cute moments but nothing that would cause the line " You cant fall in love with me" they might have changed it to avoid any confusion when Tifa stuff happens in part 3 or because of Zack. Or it was a meta line saying the romance isn't actually real even if you think it is.
Zerith is so bittersweet because there’s traces and lasting impressions of their relationship everywhere. It’s how 88 of Aerith’s letters never reached him, preserved in a box somewhere, it’s how all the Turks knew how impactful Zack was to Aerith, being urged to keep those 88 letters in case they find him and teasing her of her new boy toy when they see Cloud. It’s how Elmyra was cold to Cloud, another “Soldier” in her daughter’s life and was cautious about him, because she knew how Aerith suffered in those 4 years after Zack disappeared. It’s how Zack “head-over-heels” Fair talked about Aerith all the time that a memory of that is what triggers Cloud to remember that he knew him at all, it’s how Zack’s letters to his parents kept mentioning Aerith, how even Cissnei verbally acknowledges and understands the fact that Zack is down horrendous for Aerith, how when Aerith saw someone who looked like Zack, (his father) she couldn’t help but ask about him and bring him up, how Tifa checked on Aerith in Gongaga if she received any news of Zack because they’ve been talking about first loves, It’s how Zack mimicks Aerith’s “Hello in there” to try and wake her up because that’s how SHE WOKE HIM UP WHEN THEY FIRST MET (more apparent in JP they both say “moshi moshi”) and don’t even get me started on “our spot” “our place” and “following the yellow flowers.” It’s true, Aerith and Zack’s parents need closure but the shipper in me first and foremost wants to make their yearning FINALLY REACH OTHERReminds me…. I want closure for the Fair parents too. C’mon.
This is what I mean when I say I avoid other Final Fantasy fans (general franchise). So many bad takes, particularly the ones that don’t actually understand why a scene is important.Yeah their take was that the LS sequence will be expanded and involving everyone.
Twitter is… something else. LOLI took a deep dive on x and I'm baffled at how both sides are so sure that they're right and bringing up all kinds of quotes and merchandise to prove that they're right. I can't be the only one that finds all of this petty back and forth hilarious with everyone saying part 3 is going to sink "insert rival ship here".
I'll bounce off of that and throw in another recommendation from my way. Julia: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLYNu7HjdIDjDKZGU-xeO2PuNAJ2Veamb6.I like to watch Whimsy Psyche's let's play; she's only played Remake before and theorycrafts on what's happening based on only that. The stuff she was able to pull together is absolutely crazy. Now she is an incredible theorycrafter. Here if you want to watch her: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNXSajyEaaSambByZm0cnRd4CjIO-gHHv
I think the purpose of the dream date is to have a resolution of Aerith who pursues Cloud romantically (it’s not meant to develop it) and in my opinion the answer was, it doesn’t matter if her feelings are romantic or not, she will continue to care for him and they will continue to care for each other. I think it’s possible the devs didn’t want to portray Aerith as someone who continues to pine for Cloud unrequitedly knowing what’s bound to happen in the story (even if there’s still much poignant meaning in that) she’s searching for real Cloud but the tragic part is she never gets to find him when she’s alive, (when it matters) and even if we count ACC, where Cloud is himself, the devs decided it wasn’t important for her character to make that distinction of him from his soldier persona (it doesn’t seem to factor in their interactions)Yeah pretty much exactly my thoughts. Like as I said I don't think it's unclear but it's executed in a way that really feels unsatisfying. Like first yeah it's a bit out of character for her to not just say it. And also because now it's like did even SHE love him romantically? No? Ok then what was the point? Which contradicts the compilation in terms of her feelings. And if she did love him romantically? Yes? Then okay again what is the point?
The point seems to be to set up Zerith honestly. Which is great if you're a Zerith fan. But it doesn't actually do much for Aerith the character beyond that. And as a Clerith fan it's like okay? Why put the resolution as meta commentary when girl doesn't even know what like it is? And yeah it leaves out some hope but like I don't know for what because to me that hope's gonna be shot down or probably ignored? So why?
It's just very lacking. Like I still like Clerith's bond regardless I still find it beautiful but I keep asking myself was any of that necessary? Just seems like a stepping stone for ZA not actual development of the CA bond really. Because we know she was conflicted, this isn't news. We know by GC too she knows Cloud isn't Zack and is aware she is seeing Zack in Cloud and is talking about searching for him. I would have even been happy with her saying I guess we're friends at this point.
I can see why you'd include this to set up Zerith sure. But I can't tell you what it does for Aerith or even Cloud as a character to be like well guess I may not like you like that. Or I guess I may but it's different *shrug
Or what it does for Aerith as a character for her entire arc to revolve around this. The only purpose I can think of is that it has her be satisfied with her relationship with Cloud as is and again lets her set up a reunion with Zack. Stuff that was honestly already there especially in Gongaga.
I think you get what I mean.
Yeah i could see something like this too.I think they're gonna do the "Zack" thing again. They want us to doubt about where he is. And we'll know only towards the end if it's in the same world as the main party or not.
The real tuto segment will be during a snow storm (this explain why we don't use the Tiny Bronco) while climbing the mountain to reach the crater. A first part only with Cloud. And a latter with the party reunited. Then the crater events happen. End of Chapter 1.
Kinda the same rythm and construction of the Nibel section of Rebirth.
Yeah her answer is basically it doesn't matter the nature of her feelings because she cherishes him anyway regardless and always will. But I still feel that was already very clearly established even before all that and "I wonder what kind is like this is" "Difference between liking and liking" made her seem unsure when if the point is you're conflicted by the end you should no longer be conflicted because you are sure. And people have this impression that's her being sure she doesn't see him romantically but no she didn't say that and JP is even clearer she's still wondering about it. And to me I see it as her being unsure of how far her feelings go even in the end of this journey where she was trying to figure that out. So basically the answer is "it doesn't matter how I feel because I cherish you either way." Very sweet but we spent an entire game and a half on getting that answer?I think the purpose of the dream date is to have a resolution of Aerith who pursues Cloud romantically (it’s not meant to develop it) and in my opinion the answer was, it doesn’t matter if her feelings are romantic or not, she will continue to care for him and they will continue to care for each other. I think it’s possible the devs didn’t want to portray Aerith as someone who continues to pine for Cloud unrequitedly knowing what’s bound to happen in the story (even if there’s still much poignant meaning in that) she’s searching for real Cloud but the tragic part is she never gets to find him when she’s alive, (when it matters) and even if we count ACC, where Cloud is himself, the devs decided it wasn’t important for her character to make that distinction of him from his soldier persona (it doesn’t seem to factor in their interactions)
I disagree that her character arc revolved around this, it’s just evident to me in Rebirth that they were saving more of the Cetra lore for part 3 (which is frustrating). Also it’s highly likely that the Aerith we took in the GS date is different from the one in the dream date, if the latter is the one from CoLW, then it’s possible she spent a long time apart from Cloud, she might have missed him a lot.
I kind of understand where you’re coming from though, because personally I can’t tell what it does for Aerith to make her continue to love Cloud who’s already so committed to someone else.
I have some bad news. He did in fact show up again, but with another alt this time like a few days ago . This flame shall forever be left burning.Be careful though, I hear that if you say his name 3 times in a mirror he shows up.
Did something in particular set him off again or is he just generally causing a fuss?I have some bad news. He did in fact show up again, but with another alt this time like a few days ago . This flame shall forever be left burning.
Sorta like it, but it would also conflict with the final goodbye they had before Cloud and co flew off with the Bronco. It would be weird to see him yet again thinking she's around, right after he had said his goodbyes to her and left her at the grassfields. But i suppose his delusion might bring her back in somehow anyway.I think a cool thing they can do is just have Aerith present normally. She’s with the group and is accompanying them, but nobody but Cloud ever directly talks to her and she seldom chimes in when the group is talking, and then eventually that builds up into Cloud realizing she’s not actually there.
That’s true, I forgot about that. Starting to think he’s just gonna find out the moment Tifa loses faith in him.Sorta like it, but it would also conflict with the final goodbye they had before Cloud and co flew off with the Bronco. It would be weird to see him yet again thinking she's around, right after he had said his goodbyes to her and left her at the grassfields. But i suppose his delusion might bring her back in somehow anyway.
Cloud and the others are supposed to feel her absence, if the story demands for her presence to be utilized then the players will have to spend time with her, not necessarily Cloud and co.Yeah her answer is basically it doesn't matter the nature of her feelings because she cherishes him anyway regardless and always will. But I still feel that was already very clearly established even before all that and "I wonder what kind is like this is" "Difference between liking and liking" made her seem unsure when if the point is you're conflicted by the end you should no longer be conflicted because you are sure. And people have this impression that's her being sure she doesn't see him romantically but no she didn't say that and JP is even clearer she's still wondering about it. And to me I see it as her being unsure of how far her feelings go even in the end of this journey where she was trying to figure that out. So basically the answer is "it doesn't matter how I feel because I cherish you either way." Very sweet but we spent an entire game and a half on getting that answer?
I don't even know if I want them fleshing out her Cetra background in a game when she is supposed to be dead by the way. We are supposed to feel her absence. I think it greatly cheapens her death. So basically I guess it would be we find out about her background in Icicle inn but I don't think we'll actually see her character develop further from this point. Also in OG and CC Aerith's arc was about freedom something we could have touched on more here too.
I kind of appreciate Twitter for the people who are SO passionate about the LTD that they find EVERY THING in the game.Twitter is… something else. LOL
Well, I definitely think Part 3 is gonna end the LTD. At least I hope so… it will have raged on for thirty years, it’s time to stop.
But yeah, I think there’s a lot of “war” on Twitter in particular.
My only issue with Cloud and others feeling her absence but not the player is OG was set up in a way you actually feel her loss in every way. Especially as the player. While I'm happy to see her I feel the impact of her death here will have less effect on me.Cloud and the others are supposed to feel her absence, if the story demands for her presence to be utilized then the players will have to spend time with her, not necessarily Cloud and co.
I think the emotionally charged crying moment will still happen when Cloud gets the clear recollection of Aerith’s death/funeral; which to me, doesn’t cheapen her death in any way, it’s just moved to a later spot in the story.
And yeah Zeriths also agree that we needed more focus on Aerith in general in Rebirth, but to me personally, what we got wasn’t bad at all (definitely not perfect though); Maybe I’m just optimistic about it because the lack of Aerith here meant that we’ll get more of her in part 3. And we never saw Aerith come to terms with how she lost her life (it’s my opinion that it should’ve impacted her the most, given that she retains her consciousness afterwards, but in the compilation all that’s given emphasis is cloud’s feelings on it, I want her to grieve for herself), we also never saw how she ultimately saved the world in OG (we never saw this directly from her POV) I think the Retrilogy is also setting up for her to embrace her role to watch over humanity from the lifestream, like the guardian she is in ACC. Clearly her arc isn’t over.
I resonate hard with romance stuff too and i don't know if it's a hot take or what, but personally i've always liked Cloud and Tifas romance the most out of any FF romances we've had. It gives me the most satisfaction after everything is said and done, even if this game doesn't necessarily have it as centerstage as something like 8 has. Then again 7 does have the most suplementary material for it too so that probably helps.I’m a sucker for romance, what hooked me is Cloud and Tifa. If you put a good romance in a game it will become my favorite game.
HOWEVER…yes all of the characters are amazing. I love their stories and background. Nanaki got me teary eyed…Aerith’s final goodbye got me teary eyed- ugh when she said it’s been fun!!! Hurt so bad.