SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Yoru]

I actually happened to watch that theory session they had too and unless i'm totally off, didn't they imply that the Lifestream sequence should be some kinda big general event this time around instead of just being revolved around Cloud and Tifa? At least i got that kinda impression when they brought it up. Definitely not on board with that idea if it was what they suggested.

Yeah their take was that the LS sequence will be expanded and involving everyone.

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

Its strange; it feels like they wanted to have their cake and eat it too, with that scene. It was either a confession or i like you but not romantically. but it feels out of character for Aerith with her last chance to not be able to say her feelings when all the time she's been a very upfront character.
So in the end, all we have are these conclusions
1 It was her admiting she is confused about her feelings and doesnt truly know even after her date and all the time
2 It was a confession and she was just shy but Cloud didn't understand or changed it by derailing the conversation
3 It was a confession and she just made it confusing
4 It was not a confession, but her admitting that theres different kinds of like and its not romantic since she quickly said this.
5 She didnt want to confess since she knew she was dying so made it confusing on purpose

Either way depending on how you view the relationships, its a different answer. Ambigious on purpose to not annoy anyone. However, with this confusion, it now creates more arguments and sorta gives false hope. Whats really weird though is the alternate phrase Cloud can say since its not High affection to trigger it. Seemingly no one actually knows what causes the difference and the end conversation ends the same with Cloud saying your being weird?. Its noticeable worse written than the other scenes its quite jarring. For Aerith's resolution i honestly believe its been retconned i went into Rebirth expecting that plot line and it was not in the main story there was cute moments but nothing that would cause the line " You cant fall in love with me" they might have changed it to avoid any confusion when Tifa stuff happens in part 3 or because of Zack. Or it was a meta line saying the romance isn't actually real even if you think it is.

Yeah pretty much exactly my thoughts. Like as I said I don't think it's unclear but it's executed in a way that really feels unsatisfying. Like first yeah it's a bit out of character for her to not just say it. And also because now it's like did even SHE love him romantically? No? Ok then what was the point? Which contradicts the compilation in terms of her feelings. And if she did love him romantically? Yes? Then okay again what is the point?
The point seems to be to set up Zerith honestly. Which is great if you're a Zerith fan. But it doesn't actually do much for Aerith the character beyond that. And as a Clerith fan it's like okay? Why put the resolution as meta commentary when girl doesn't even know what like it is? And yeah it leaves out some hope but like I don't know for what because to me that hope's gonna be shot down or probably ignored? So why?

It's just very lacking. Like I still like Clerith's bond regardless I still find it beautiful but I keep asking myself was any of that necessary? Just seems like a stepping stone for ZA not actual development of the CA bond really. Because we know she was conflicted, this isn't news. We know by GC too she knows Cloud isn't Zack and is aware she is seeing Zack in Cloud and is talking about searching for him. I would have even been happy with her saying I guess we're friends at this point.

I can see why you'd include this to set up Zerith sure. But I can't tell you what it does for Aerith or even Cloud as a character to be like well guess I may not like you like that. Or I guess I may but it's different *shrug

I know her sorting out her feelings for Zack is part of her arc of moving on but she was Already doing that before this date. She was already aware she had to move on. She was already accepting her feelings for Cloud were different. She was already aware of her feelings for Zack.
All we needed was ok I like you romantically or I don't you're a great friend Cloud and we're done. We are free lol. We got "I wonder what kind of like this is" "I guess there is a difference between liking and liking" I wanted to throw a book lol.

Or what it does for Aerith as a character for her entire arc to revolve around this? The only purpose I can think of is that it has her be satisfied with her relationship with Cloud as is and again lets her set up a reunion with Zack. Stuff that was honestly already there especially in Gongaga.

I think you get what I mean.

 

[A-to-Z]

Reminds me…. I want closure for the Fair parents too. C’mon.

Zerith is so bittersweet because there’s traces and lasting impressions of their relationship everywhere. It’s how 88 of Aerith’s letters never reached him, preserved in a box somewhere, it’s how all the Turks knew how impactful Zack was to Aerith, being urged to keep those 88 letters in case they find him and teasing her of her new boy toy when they see Cloud. It’s how Elmyra was cold to Cloud, another “Soldier” in her daughter’s life and was cautious about him, because she knew how Aerith suffered in those 4 years after Zack disappeared. It’s how Zack “head-over-heels” Fair talked about Aerith all the time that a memory of that is what triggers Cloud to remember that he knew him at all, it’s how Zack’s letters to his parents kept mentioning Aerith, how even Cissnei verbally acknowledges and understands the fact that Zack is down horrendous for Aerith, how when Aerith saw someone who looked like Zack, (his father) she couldn’t help but ask about him and bring him up, how Tifa checked on Aerith in Gongaga if she received any news of Zack because they’ve been talking about first loves, It’s how Zack mimicks Aerith’s “Hello in there” to try and wake her up because that’s how SHE WOKE HIM UP WHEN THEY FIRST MET (more apparent in JP they both say “moshi moshi”) and don’t even get me started on “our spot” “our place” and “following the yellow flowers.” It’s true, Aerith and Zack’s parents need closure but the shipper in me first and foremost wants to make their yearning FINALLY REACH OTHER

(Sorry for yapping btw hope you didn't mind)

 

[GamerSkull]

Yeah their take was that the LS sequence will be expanded and involving everyone.

This is what I mean when I say I avoid other Final Fantasy fans (general franchise). So many bad takes, particularly the ones that don’t actually understand why a scene is important.

 

[ChaosandConfusion]

I took a deep dive on x and I'm baffled at how both sides are so sure that they're right and bringing up all kinds of quotes and merchandise to prove that they're right. I can't be the only one that finds all of this petty back and forth hilarious with everyone saying part 3 is going to sink "insert rival ship here".

 

[GamerSkull]

I took a deep dive on x and I'm baffled at how both sides are so sure that they're right and bringing up all kinds of quotes and merchandise to prove that they're right. I can't be the only one that finds all of this petty back and forth hilarious with everyone saying part 3 is going to sink "insert rival ship here".

Twitter is… something else. LOL

Well, I definitely think Part 3 is gonna end the LTD. At least I hope so… it will have raged on for thirty years, it’s time to stop.

But yeah, I think there’s a lot of “war” on Twitter in particular.

 

[Hellenic]

I like to watch Whimsy Psyche's let's play; she's only played Remake before and theorycrafts on what's happening based on only that. The stuff she was able to pull together is absolutely crazy. Now she is an incredible theorycrafter. Here if you want to watch her: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNXSajyEaaSambByZm0cnRd4CjIO-gHHv

I'll bounce off of that and throw in another recommendation from my way. Julia: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLYNu7HjdIDjDKZGU-xeO2PuNAJ2Veamb6.

I've really enjoyed following her playthrough. She only has played Remake before Rebirth as well and i love how invested she is in the game and she even takes notes about things and shows them off in her streams and has these kinda theorycrafting moments at times.

 

[A-to-Z]

Yeah pretty much exactly my thoughts. Like as I said I don't think it's unclear but it's executed in a way that really feels unsatisfying. Like first yeah it's a bit out of character for her to not just say it. And also because now it's like did even SHE love him romantically? No? Ok then what was the point? Which contradicts the compilation in terms of her feelings. And if she did love him romantically? Yes? Then okay again what is the point?
The point seems to be to set up Zerith honestly. Which is great if you're a Zerith fan. But it doesn't actually do much for Aerith the character beyond that. And as a Clerith fan it's like okay? Why put the resolution as meta commentary when girl doesn't even know what like it is? And yeah it leaves out some hope but like I don't know for what because to me that hope's gonna be shot down or probably ignored? So why?

It's just very lacking. Like I still like Clerith's bond regardless I still find it beautiful but I keep asking myself was any of that necessary? Just seems like a stepping stone for ZA not actual development of the CA bond really. Because we know she was conflicted, this isn't news. We know by GC too she knows Cloud isn't Zack and is aware she is seeing Zack in Cloud and is talking about searching for him. I would have even been happy with her saying I guess we're friends at this point.

I can see why you'd include this to set up Zerith sure. But I can't tell you what it does for Aerith or even Cloud as a character to be like well guess I may not like you like that. Or I guess I may but it's different *shrug

Or what it does for Aerith as a character for her entire arc to revolve around this. The only purpose I can think of is that it has her be satisfied with her relationship with Cloud as is and again lets her set up a reunion with Zack. Stuff that was honestly already there especially in Gongaga.

I think you get what I mean.

I think the purpose of the dream date is to have a resolution of Aerith who pursues Cloud romantically (it’s not meant to develop it) and in my opinion the answer was, it doesn’t matter if her feelings are romantic or not, she will continue to care for him and they will continue to care for each other. I think it’s possible the devs didn’t want to portray Aerith as someone who continues to pine for Cloud unrequitedly knowing what’s bound to happen in the story (even if there’s still much poignant meaning in that) she’s searching for real Cloud but the tragic part is she never gets to find him when she’s alive, (when it matters) and even if we count ACC, where Cloud is himself, the devs decided it wasn’t important for her character to make that distinction of him from his soldier persona (it doesn’t seem to factor in their interactions)

I disagree that her character arc revolved around this, it’s just evident to me in Rebirth that they were saving more of the Cetra lore for part 3 (which is frustrating). Also it’s highly likely that the Aerith we took in the GS date is different from the one in the dream date, if the latter is the one from CoLW, then it’s possible she spent a long time apart from Cloud, she might have missed him a lot.

I kind of understand where you’re coming from though, because personally I can’t tell what it does for Aerith to make her continue to love Cloud who’s already so committed to someone else.

 

[Hellenic]

I think they're gonna do the "Zack" thing again. They want us to doubt about where he is. And we'll know only towards the end if it's in the same world as the main party or not.

The real tuto segment will be during a snow storm (this explain why we don't use the Tiny Bronco) while climbing the mountain to reach the crater. A first part only with Cloud. And a latter with the party reunited. Then the crater events happen. End of Chapter 1.

Kinda the same rythm and construction of the Nibel section of Rebirth.

Yeah i could see something like this too.

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

I think the purpose of the dream date is to have a resolution of Aerith who pursues Cloud romantically (it’s not meant to develop it) and in my opinion the answer was, it doesn’t matter if her feelings are romantic or not, she will continue to care for him and they will continue to care for each other. I think it’s possible the devs didn’t want to portray Aerith as someone who continues to pine for Cloud unrequitedly knowing what’s bound to happen in the story (even if there’s still much poignant meaning in that) she’s searching for real Cloud but the tragic part is she never gets to find him when she’s alive, (when it matters) and even if we count ACC, where Cloud is himself, the devs decided it wasn’t important for her character to make that distinction of him from his soldier persona (it doesn’t seem to factor in their interactions)

I disagree that her character arc revolved around this, it’s just evident to me in Rebirth that they were saving more of the Cetra lore for part 3 (which is frustrating). Also it’s highly likely that the Aerith we took in the GS date is different from the one in the dream date, if the latter is the one from CoLW, then it’s possible she spent a long time apart from Cloud, she might have missed him a lot.

I kind of understand where you’re coming from though, because personally I can’t tell what it does for Aerith to make her continue to love Cloud who’s already so committed to someone else.

Yeah her answer is basically it doesn't matter the nature of her feelings because she cherishes him anyway regardless and always will. But I still feel that was already very clearly established even before all that and "I wonder what kind is like this is" "Difference between liking and liking" made her seem unsure when if the point is you're conflicted by the end you should no longer be conflicted because you are sure. And people have this impression that's her being sure she doesn't see him romantically but no she didn't say that and JP is even clearer she's still wondering about it. And to me I see it as her being unsure of how far her feelings go even in the end of this journey where she was trying to figure that out. So basically the answer is "it doesn't matter how I feel because I cherish you either way." Very sweet but we spent an entire game and a half on getting that answer?

I don't even know if I want them fleshing out her Cetra background in a game when she is supposed to be dead by the way. We are supposed to feel her absence. I think it greatly cheapens her death. So basically I guess it would be we find out about her background in Icicle inn but I don't think we'll actually see her character develop further from this point. Also in OG and CC Aerith's arc was about freedom something we could have touched on more here too.

 

[Hellenic]

Be careful though, I hear that if you say his name 3 times in a mirror he shows up.

I have some bad news. He did in fact show up again, but with another alt this time like a few days ago . This flame shall forever be left burning.

 

[GamerSkull]

I have some bad news. He did in fact show up again, but with another alt this time like a few days ago . This flame shall forever be left burning.

Did something in particular set him off again or is he just generally causing a fuss?

 

[Hellenic]

I think a cool thing they can do is just have Aerith present normally. She’s with the group and is accompanying them, but nobody but Cloud ever directly talks to her and she seldom chimes in when the group is talking, and then eventually that builds up into Cloud realizing she’s not actually there.

Sorta like it, but it would also conflict with the final goodbye they had before Cloud and co flew off with the Bronco. It would be weird to see him yet again thinking she's around, right after he had said his goodbyes to her and left her at the grassfields. But i suppose his delusion might bring her back in somehow anyway.

 

[GamerSkull]

Sorta like it, but it would also conflict with the final goodbye they had before Cloud and co flew off with the Bronco. It would be weird to see him yet again thinking she's around, right after he had said his goodbyes to her and left her at the grassfields. But i suppose his delusion might bring her back in somehow anyway.

That’s true, I forgot about that. Starting to think he’s just gonna find out the moment Tifa loses faith in him.

 

[A-to-Z]

Yeah her answer is basically it doesn't matter the nature of her feelings because she cherishes him anyway regardless and always will. But I still feel that was already very clearly established even before all that and "I wonder what kind is like this is" "Difference between liking and liking" made her seem unsure when if the point is you're conflicted by the end you should no longer be conflicted because you are sure. And people have this impression that's her being sure she doesn't see him romantically but no she didn't say that and JP is even clearer she's still wondering about it. And to me I see it as her being unsure of how far her feelings go even in the end of this journey where she was trying to figure that out. So basically the answer is "it doesn't matter how I feel because I cherish you either way." Very sweet but we spent an entire game and a half on getting that answer?

I don't even know if I want them fleshing out her Cetra background in a game when she is supposed to be dead by the way. We are supposed to feel her absence. I think it greatly cheapens her death. So basically I guess it would be we find out about her background in Icicle inn but I don't think we'll actually see her character develop further from this point. Also in OG and CC Aerith's arc was about freedom something we could have touched on more here too.

Cloud and the others are supposed to feel her absence, if the story demands for her presence to be utilized then the players will have to spend time with her, not necessarily Cloud and co.

I think the emotionally charged crying moment will still happen when Cloud gets the clear recollection of Aerith’s death/funeral; which to me, doesn’t cheapen her death in any way, it’s just moved to a later spot in the story.

And yeah Zeriths also agree that we needed more focus on Aerith in general in Rebirth, but to me personally, what we got wasn’t bad at all (definitely not perfect though); Maybe I’m just optimistic about it because the lack of Aerith here meant that we’ll get more of her in part 3. And we never saw Aerith come to terms with how she lost her life (it’s my opinion that it should’ve impacted her the most, given that she retains her consciousness afterwards, but in the compilation all that’s given emphasis is cloud’s feelings on it, I want her to grieve for herself), we also never saw how she ultimately saved the world in OG (we never saw this directly from her POV) I think the Retrilogy is also setting up for her to embrace her role to watch over humanity from the lifestream, like the guardian she is in ACC. Clearly her arc isn’t over.

 

[nars305]

Twitter is… something else. LOL

Well, I definitely think Part 3 is gonna end the LTD. At least I hope so… it will have raged on for thirty years, it’s time to stop.

But yeah, I think there’s a lot of “war” on Twitter in particular.

I kind of appreciate Twitter for the people who are SO passionate about the LTD that they find EVERY THING in the game.

Like I had never noticed in the final date that Cloud kind of has this…reaction…to the shop owner giving him the reunion flower pin. He then refuses to take it. I thought that was interesting and can’t believe I missed it.

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

Cloud and the others are supposed to feel her absence, if the story demands for her presence to be utilized then the players will have to spend time with her, not necessarily Cloud and co.

I think the emotionally charged crying moment will still happen when Cloud gets the clear recollection of Aerith’s death/funeral; which to me, doesn’t cheapen her death in any way, it’s just moved to a later spot in the story.

And yeah Zeriths also agree that we needed more focus on Aerith in general in Rebirth, but to me personally, what we got wasn’t bad at all (definitely not perfect though); Maybe I’m just optimistic about it because the lack of Aerith here meant that we’ll get more of her in part 3. And we never saw Aerith come to terms with how she lost her life (it’s my opinion that it should’ve impacted her the most, given that she retains her consciousness afterwards, but in the compilation all that’s given emphasis is cloud’s feelings on it, I want her to grieve for herself), we also never saw how she ultimately saved the world in OG (we never saw this directly from her POV) I think the Retrilogy is also setting up for her to embrace her role to watch over humanity from the lifestream, like the guardian she is in ACC. Clearly her arc isn’t over.

My only issue with Cloud and others feeling her absence but not the player is OG was set up in a way you actually feel her loss in every way. Especially as the player. While I'm happy to see her I feel the impact of her death here will have less effect on me.

And while I think they did that so Aerith fans have something to look forward to in the next game I think in general it took away a lot from her to do it this way. I definitely hope you're right though and they're doing something with her guardian re which is nice to explore. It's just frustrating in the moment because in her own swan swang chapter basically they didn't give her much besides her loneliness and her conflicted feelings took up a lot of her moments that could have set up more about her an independent character.

But maybe pt 3 is amazing at handling her. We will see.

 

[Sacky]

Lets call the toxic Cleriths and Clotis
Cult Cleriths and Cult Clotis
to distinguish them from nice cleriths nice clotis

 

[Hellenic]

I’m a sucker for romance, what hooked me is Cloud and Tifa. If you put a good romance in a game it will become my favorite game.

HOWEVER…yes all of the characters are amazing. I love their stories and background. Nanaki got me teary eyed…Aerith’s final goodbye got me teary eyed- ugh when she said it’s been fun!!! Hurt so bad.

I resonate hard with romance stuff too and i don't know if it's a hot take or what, but personally i've always liked Cloud and Tifas romance the most out of any FF romances we've had. It gives me the most satisfaction after everything is said and done, even if this game doesn't necessarily have it as centerstage as something like 8 has. Then again 7 does have the most suplementary material for it too so that probably helps.

Barret and Nanaki stuff did get to me, though the trials in the Temple was the moment that really got me to tear up the hardest in the game probably.

 

[Ryushikaze]

That’s true, I forgot about that. Starting to think he’s just gonna find out the moment Tifa loses faith in him.

An interesting point of order here, but I don't think Tifa ever "loses faith" in Cloud in the sense that she stops believing in his capabilities and that he will come through in a pinch etc. Her "losing faith" is actually finally telling him what she's been struggling with for weeks- that he was not, as far as she knew, present for the event which razed Nibelheim.
She doesn't say "You're not Cloud" or "You're not SOLDIER" or even "You're unreliable" or things like that. It's Tifa's doubt that he was present for Nibelheim that does him in. Granted, we know, after the fact that he WAS present, just not exactly how he presented himself, and that's part of why Tifa takes so long to actually confront him over the matter.


Also, we did used to have a term for rabid Cleriths, it was Pinkers and people got upset about that for some reason.

 

[Hellenic]

I think I’m in the same boat. I don’t particularly like some of the directions they’ve taken with the story either. But the character work is great to me.

They absolutely nailed the characters, which is why i'm not overly worried about how Cid was portrayed in this game either. A lot of people don't like how he is portrayed now, but i think we will get more of those more negative aspects of his character later on when his actual arc happens.

 

[Yoru]

I kind of appreciate Twitter for the people who are SO passionate about the LTD that they find EVERY THING in the game.

Like I had never noticed in the final date that Cloud kind of has this…reaction…to the shop owner giving him the reunion flower pin. He then refuses to take it. I thought that was interesting and can’t believe I missed it.

View attachment 16023View attachment 16024View attachment 16025

Another detail I haven't seen discussed much is that one of the possible gifts is a hair brooch. In other words, a possible replacement for the pink bow offered by Zack. Something the game denies you. Quite telling, if you ask me.

 

[GamerSkull]

An interesting point of order here, but I don't think Tifa ever "loses faith" in Cloud in the sense that she stops believing in his capabilities and that he will come through in a pinch etc. Her "losing faith" is actually finally telling him what she's been struggling with for weeks- that he was not, as far as she knew, present for the event which razed Nibelheim.
She doesn't say "You're not Cloud" or "You're not SOLDIER" or even "You're unreliable" or things like that. It's Tifa's doubt that he was present for Nibelheim that does him in. Granted, we know, after the fact that he WAS present, just not exactly how he presented himself, and that's part of why Tifa takes so long to actually confront him over the matter.


Also, we did used to have a term for rabid Cleriths, it was Pinkers and people got upset about that for some reason.

Yeah, I meant as more that she lost faith in him from his POV. Not hers.

I wonder how they’ll do the “I hope someday you’ll meet the real Cloud” scene.

 

[Hellenic]

I took a deep dive on x and I'm baffled at how both sides are so sure that they're right and bringing up all kinds of quotes and merchandise to prove that they're right. I can't be the only one that finds all of this petty back and forth hilarious with everyone saying part 3 is going to sink "insert rival ship here".

Welcome to the shipping wars my friend . It's been like this for years now.

 

[Hellenic]

Did something in particular set him off again or is he just generally causing a fuss?

From what it seemed, he just started randomly appearing in non related Nojima posts again with his stupid agenda. Managed to argue back and forth with a few twitter users already too for a pretty lenghty amount. Oh and he called the Cloud and Yuffie date a pedophilia date, so yeah.