SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Yoru]

My i
Here is the thing. It's not really the confession that's the issue. It's that whole section with the dream date but also the execution of this is to set up pt. 3. This scene isn't about Aerith, not really. It's a way to set up the narrative for the next part and close her arc with Cloud. That's fine. But Aerith's arc especially in OG wasn't about Cloud. It was about freedom. Her conflicted feelings served to explain Cloud's identity.

Yes Aerith enjoys the moment that's part of her character but at the last moment when she is about to die she confesses accepting the outcome and she is fine with cherishing him anyway. I get it but the devs have made this entire section about her conflicted feelings, when al ready made GS about her conflicted feelings, they made her resolution about her conflicted feelings too. It wasn't like it wasn't already explored
.And out of respect at least have her know what her feelings are at this point because it does feel pointless to have this her final scene revolve around this guy she doesn't even know how she feels about. Because not knowing makes me wonder then what was so important you spent this much time on it?

If it was emphasizing friendship I wouldn't mind it. Emphasize that. A final scene of that. But no they emphasize again her feelings being conflicted. Again. Not their friendship and they turned it into a pseudo rejection. Which I wouldn't mind this earlier but this is supposed to be a farewell and the entire section is about that. Even when promises to keep is about her love for everything and everyone.

Aerith is a fictional character. The writers are the ones to make this scene. And they in my opinion they did similar with her death too turning it into set up for part 3. And they made her look weird by taking her memories. I have beef with her whole handling throughout not just this scene but this was definitely a grievance.

I just put the dialogue in my language above and it's just not what's happening, I think.

This dream date his first and foremost a way to give him the Holy Materia. The date is a "bonus"

And the Church moment begins. She's telling him she cares for him, but it's complicated yadi yada. She knows she has to die. I don't know why personally, but that's the planet plan. That's why the white whispers try to stop us. Aerith herself "wants" this to happen to make things right. But doing so it's putting a lot of pressure on Cloud's mind. Mind already in shambles. So she can't really say to him what's happening and what's she's doing to save him. That's the complicated feelings she's talking about. Not her love for him.

And then she goes in his arms, tell you her AC stuff "don't blame yourself" gives him the materia and send him home (figuratively, he's already there in a coma)

So again. My POV is this scene is just Aerith giving the power to Cloud to save the planet and saying goodbye to him. Nothing more.

 

[Yoru]

WE are all looking too much at this scene with LTD googles guys.

Sure there is mutliple reading levels, but it's first and foremost Aerith (knowing how she dies) trying to save the world, first, and Cloud mind second. It's just her playing around to put Cloud's mind at ease.

And then she gives him the power to save the world. And finally taking the chance of saying a real goodbye to him. "Take care and thank you for everything, it was the best moment of my life" kind of things

She's the Aerith from the LS in her most complete form. The same who told Cloud to not fall in love in Remake. The one who knows it all. That's why she's hiding in the first place and why Sephiroth is trying to find her.

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

I just put the dialogue in my language above and it's just not what's happening, I think.

This dream date his first and foremost a way to give him the Holy Materia. The date is a "bonus"
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So again. My POV is this scene is just Aerith giving the power to Cloud to save the planet and saying goodbye to him. Nothing more.

So you're saying the dream date is not her trying to recreate her date with Zack and failing and realizing she doesn't see him the same way as Zack? And the high affection low affection church scene is not really about confessing and getting rejected but just being happy spending time with him?

Because the interpretations I have seen are extremely different.

I'm interested in how this connects with the White Materia like maybe she needs to fill it with memories or something?

In Japanese
I'm happy at least to hear your feelings
I really like you Could(suki)
But like can mean many different things right?
I wonder what kind of like this is

In English
At least I know now where you and stand I mean
Thing is Cloud I really like you
But then like can mean a lot of different things can't it?
Cause there's liking and there's likingg

 

[GamerSkull]

The worst thing about all of this is that we’ll have to wait another three years for clarification. And until then, we’ll have a myriad of bad faith arguments from extremists on both sides.

I think Square Enix has essentially already played their hand. So if they still decide to keep things ambiguous, then it will really feel like they chickened out last minute.

 

[Yoru]

So you're saying the dream date is not her trying to recreate her date with Zack and failing and realizing she doesn't see him the same way as Zack? And the high affection low affection church scene is not really about confessing and getting rejected but just being happy spending time with him?

Because the interpretations I have seen are extremely different.

I'm interested in how this connects with the White Materia like maybe she needs to fill it with memories or something?

It's my take on it yes. It's LS Aerith hiding between worlds because she knows Sephiroth will try to stop "Holy". So she keeps it safe with her. Then Cloud has the black materia, becomes delulu, fall in a coma. And there she grabs his mind, put him at ease with a date, the only one she knows. So yeah it's Zack's. No too much examples in the sector 5 at her disposal.

Then Sephiroth talks to her like "I found youuuuuuuu~"

So she decides to go to the church to give Cloud the materia. She has no more time to waste.

She tells him that she's doing all of it to save everyone, to save him, because she cares for him. But it's complicated "by the way i'm going to die just in front of you and you can't do anything about it" you know...

She tells him goodbye and sent him quick before Sephiroth can stop him (that's why he's pissed when he sees Cloud have the white materia)

Yes, of course she can't be questionning her real feelings for him, but it's not really the point of the situation.

 

[nepheneethedestroyer]

They absolutely nailed the characters, which is why i'm not overly worried about how Cid was portrayed in this game either. A lot of people don't like how he is portrayed now, but i think we will get more of those more negative aspects of his character later on when his actual arc happens.

He's just in his Uber driver era where he has to pretend to be normal. I think it will come out with his treatment of Shera, for sure.

 

[nars305]

Cloud may be a little dense, but we've seen that when he wants to, he can. When he wants the moment to be romantic, he understands it perfectly.

I may be reading a bit too deep, but for me, the church moment is when Aerith understands that he's not going to reciprocate her feelings. This is where the "Now I know where we stand" comes into place. The date is a bit of a flop compared to Zack's, and he doesn't worry about it like he sometimes can with Tifa. Because he never thougth of this date as something romantic to begin with.

So that's what I think the developers were trying to show. And I think that's why I don't see this moment as something where they didn't dare to go all the way. Or that they left hanging. It's Clerith's end in Re-Trilogy. She has romantic feelings for Cloud but it won't go anywhere because Cloud loves someone else.

I also think her feelings are a culmination of liking Cloud and also wanting special bonds. She talks about him and Tifa’s bond as much (in weight) as she talks about Cloud or Zack. Even weighing so much on her that she doesn’t want to take out her negative feelings on Cloud on the water tower.

When they got to Nibelheim, I felt like this was the closest she’s had to face Cloud and Tifa together, and she’s overcome with the realization that she doesn’t have someone like Cloud has Tifa and vice versa. The one she had is gone. It’s like that familiar loneliness you get even when you’re surrounded by people.

That’s why I also took her final date as being happy that Cloud would want to spend more time with her, even if she realizes it’s as friends. She can see that she has people and like Cloud in AC, she’s not alone.

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

I don't think they are talking about Aerith wanting to do more in the confession. I think they are confused on what Aeriths storyline was actually about having a dream date and once again making her arc around Cloud. Who in Rebirth has shown he isn't interested in a romantic relationship with her but cherishes her. Unfortunately, Aerith who isn't even the same Aerith as the one we were playing with so who knows what people are meant to feel about that? only learns this at the end of the game and didn't give her much to do in the plot until Temple, for some reason? The real issue was that Resolution scene saying don't fall in love with me. That line just comes off as weird and not the same story because for what Rebirth showed me there is no moment where Aerith should think this?

Exactly this. All of this. I'm wondering what exactly are they trying to do with her character. And almost everyone on Twitter is saying this date is about her inserting Cloud in place of Zack and him rejecting her. Which if that's the case then I definitely stand by what I said about it being disrespectful to make this part of her farewell scene.

 

[Yoru]

Again. I'm just refering to "my" dialogues. If you want to compare or put in your translator :

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

@Yoru I found both versions of dialogue btw for her confession

In Japanese

Scene at 9:24
I'm happy at least to hear your feelings
I really like you Cloud(suki)
But like can mean many different things right?
I wonder what kind of like this is

In English

Scene at 9:29
At least I know now where you and stand I mean
Thing is Cloud I really like you
But then like can mean a lot of different things can't it?
Cause there's liking and there's likingg

This is what I'm talking about when I'm saying it's about her complicated feelings.

 

[nars305]

I feel like if there are differences between languages, then Japanese should be the primary one to go off of. IMO.

*I also can’t help but feel her comments were meant to contrast Tifa’s in Traces.

 

[nepheneethedestroyer]

I was sour on the dream date to begin with but I've definitely soured on it more over time. It's possible that the writers' intents were more "Aerith doesn't know a lot about the world or dates so she just defaults back to the Zack first date experience" but even if that's a logical thing to say, the emotional vibes of bringing Cloud on a recreation of her first date with Zack is soooo bad...especially when you consider all of the Zack/Cloud confusion that's already happening. They should have clued in on how weird that is if they were going for something else. But realistically, given how much Nojima likes his parallels and callbacks in his writing, it seems intentional.

Exactly my point here. And I don't think it's ambiguous on Cloud's part. But now after years of drumming Aerith loves Cloud, Aerith sees him as koibito, Aerith is fortright they want to suddenly say you know what? You want me to accept she actually isn't sure if it's even a crush? You want to be ambiguous about Aerith's feelings too??

That is such a slap in the face. It's just really disrespectful to Clerith fans but also I'm an Aerith fan first. I wouldn't mind taking out any scenes with CA or calling them just friends. But it's seriously like what in the heck are they doing with this character.

And yeah all these moments are great if it favors your ship. Definitely. But for her character it's just so weird. Especially when this is her farewell scene. Why is her whole arc about this man again to the point it even matters at her final moments?

This man who will be making out with his childhood friend in PT3. They made him the focus of that scene. He is not even listening. He changes the subject. Her resolution warning herself not to fall in love and here she isn't sure. But the point is to set up her relationship with another man and make it clear this one doesn't want her.

Wonderful.

Does anyone else understand how disrespectful this whole handling of this narrative is to Aerith the character?

Because I'm wondering if I'm the only one seeing it.

I just wonder why they even tried going with Aerith having feelings now. I get its because of the OG game but maybe we didn't need to keep everything from OG. I felt like they didn't need to take away all of Aerith's future memories and maybe her plot could have been her trying to live normally while also, with her future knowledge, trying to learn more about the cetra? Giving the players more lore about the cetra as we learn it with Aerith. Maybe even if they really wanted showing us more conversations she had with Zack to Tifa that we never got to see in Crisis Core. I just think there's a lot more interesting stuff you could have done with the character?

I do agree, I think it would have felt a lot better to have her reconcile her feelings earlier, as Rebirth!Aerith, not as the Aerith that knows the future. The fact this isn't even the Aerith we saw throughout all of Rebirth makes it so weird. It just feels sad that one of her final scenes is this OmniAerith pulling Cloud into her dream world and then going on a "date" with awful awful vibes. I really liked the emphasis that was put on her about wanting to live a normal life, her hatred of her life under captivity, etc etc...and then they threw this date in here and it was honestly jarring.

I understand all the people who are saying that there's setup for Zerith in Part 3. I do. I think it's gonna happen. But I wish that honestly there was acknowledgement of it earlier, more than just the hand scene in Chapter 10, because goddamn does it feel kind of bad to put so much focus on what Aerith thinks of Cloud and then for that to be the resolution? IDK?

And RE: the specific dialogue of the "liking" or whatever--I think it's so clear that what Aerith says there is a direct parallel to what Tifa says in ToTP it doesn't even need to be dissected that clearly.

 

[Maidenofwar]

OK, I'm reading in some languages she does say I love you.

Edit; For me sector 5 is not so bad, because I enjoyed that date with Aerith and Cloud in Remake, I don't really hate dream date, only unsatisfying if Aerith really didn't have feelings.

 

[Yoru]

@Yoru I found both versions of dialogue btw for her confession

In Japanese
I'm happy at least to hear your feelings
I really like you Cloud(suki)
But like can mean many different things right?
I wonder what kind of like this is

In English
At least I know now where you and stand I mean
Thing is Cloud I really like you
But then like can mean a lot of different things can't it?
Cause there's liking and there's likingg

This is what I'm talking about when I'm saying it's about her complicated feelings.

In French (from Japanese script as stated in the game menu)

Thank you. I needed to hear it
You know, Cloud... I care for you
Well... how to say this ? It's complicated
I don't really know how I feel

Yes. she has complicated feelings. She knows she's about to die. She just shared new memories with Cloud and he enjoyed it, asked for more even. She's devasted because she finally succeed to break his armor. See a part of the real Cloud. But she won't be able to enjoy it ANYMORE. That's where come the dramatic aspect of their pairing. She cares for him. She loves him. It's complicated because she loves(d) Zack from all her heart but she can't say she's feeling nothing for Cloud. it's COMPLICATED. Because yes, life is not black or white.

We just have to let down the LTD googles for a moment and just see what we have to see. Someone saying goodbye to a loved one. With mere seconds to do it. She has no time for that. No time to be selfish. She's just happy to see Cloud one last time and that he enjoyed it too.

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

OK, I'm reading in some languages she does say I love you.

Yeah in Japanese she says suki. But she doesn't know what kind of suki.
Watashi wa Cloud ga suki
Demo suki ni mo iro iro aru yo ne
Kono suki wa... Donna suki nandarou?

That's what I just heard and transcribed.

But for "I love you" it would be daisuki so it's translated as like in English.

In her resolution she says suki ni naranaide. Which is don't fall in love with me. So makes sense to me if other languages have the word love too. But it really depends on context what meaning suki takes on but here she is like what kind of suki is this basically.

 

[Eerie]

And almost everyone on Twitter is saying this date is about her inserting Cloud in place of Zack and him rejecting her.

I've seen a lot of CAs takes which are "the date shows CA is canon and is super romantic" on the other side of the spectrum, to put things in perspective lol.

Ther feeling you still get watching the date I think is... you're not Zack. The fact that the scene is filled with Zack moments, him ending up at "their place" without getting a prompt, everything is very ZA coded. You're supposed to feel that the whole date scene is uncomfortable, that the wrong guy is here by her side (ZA setup again).

@Yoru @LunarTarotGirl I will say it but the FR reflects the JP there. It's more romantic than what you think, Yoru. But yes she is lost, "I don't know what kind of feeling it is". I really think that this scene is supposed to give Aerith some closure on her feelings but... are we supposed to think this affects our Aerith?

Edit to add to this, she wouldn't need to hug him if this wasn't about her feelings for him. The fact that she says "sorry" before hugging him is also the last hint that her feelings are unrequited because you don't need to say sorry to your lover to hug him. She's trespassing her rights and she knows it but it's her last comfort.

 

[Hellenic]

I just wonder why they even tried going with Aerith having feelings now. I get its because of the OG game but maybe we didn't need to keep everything from OG. I felt like they didn't need to take away all of Aerith's future memories and maybe her plot could have been her trying to live normally while also, with her future knowledge, trying to learn more about the cetra? Giving the players more lore about the cetra as we learn it with Aerith. Maybe even if they really wanted showing us more conversations she had with Zack to Tifa that we never got to see in Crisis Core. I just think there's a lot more interesting stuff you could have done with the character?

Yeah i really don't know why they went and pressed the reset button for her in Rebirth. It could've been so much more interesting to tackle her character with all that knowledge and see how she reacts and handles stuff with it in place.

 

[Yoru]

@YoruI will say it but the FR reflects the JP there. It's more romantic than what you think, Yoru. But yes she is lost, "I don't know what kind of feeling it is". I really think that this scene is supposed to give Aerith some closure on her feelings but... are we supposed to think this affects our Aerith?

What I'm trying to say is that it's not ONLY romantic. I'm just saying that people focus too much on the dating aspect when it's primarily a way to give Cloud the white materia.

Yes, she's thinking about her feelings. But you have to balance that against the fact that Sephiroth is coming for her. She's scared. She gives herself courage to go ahead. "If I'm doing all this, it's because I love you. It's not in vain."

And at the end of the journey, she's still our Aerith. Just not yet. But it's the same person. The same heart. So yes, I think we're supposed to think it will affect her.

We know she's dead, but that in a fleeting moment of her existence, we also know now that she was able to spend time alone with Cloud, that he liked it and was sincere about it for ONCE.

She died, but she was able to tell Cloud that she liked him. The type of like wasn't important. The most important thing was to send the message. That Cloud would know that when he will be at his worst, that yes, there were people who cared about him.

So, yes. If you get out of the LTD spirit, it's a good closure, I think.

She loved two mens in her life. And her reward will be her reunion with one of them in part III.

Cloti is the fairytale love of the story. Aerith the more modern one. A tale of separation and rebonding.

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

What I'm trying to say is that it's not ONLY romantic. I'm just saying that people focus too much on the dating aspect when it's primarily a way to give Cloud the white materia.

Yes, she's thinking about her feelings. But you have to balance that against the fact that Sephiroth is coming for her. She's scared. She gives herself courage to go ahead. "If I'm doing all this, it's because I love you. It's not in vain."

And at the end of the journey, she's still our Aerith. Just not yet. But it's the same person. The same heart. So yes, I think we're supposed to think it will affect her.

We know she's dead, but that in a fleeting moment of her existence, we also know now that she was able to spend time alone with Cloud, that he liked it and was sincere about it for ONCE.

She died, but she was able to tell Cloud that she liked him. The type of like wasn't important. The most important thing was to send the message. That Cloud would know that when he will be at his worst, that yes, there were people who cared about him.

So, yes. If you get out of the LTD spirit, it's a good closure, I think.

She loved two mens in her life. And her reward will be her reunion with one of them in part III.

I see what you are saying. I'm honestly still very iffy on why this dream date is like it is. But if we're looking it as a sweet moment with Cloud to make memories for the white Materia I can accept it. I definitely like your interpretation here better than the one that implies she's delusionally trying to replace Zack with Cloud and in the endstill isn't sure if she even likes him that I keep seeing on Twitter and the like.

And her having little time makes sense.

Also watching this scene she isn't offended at being called nakama she seems pretty happy that she knows she is his friend no matter what feelings she has. So it's clear she is just happy being here with him.

I still have my grievances with how they handled her and with the implication she doesn't know her feelings even now is kind of annoying but I don't think the devs were trying to make her look bad. And I will give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Hellenic]

I'm interested in how this connects with the White Materia like maybe she needs to fill it with memories or something?

Yeah i think that's partially the idea with the dream date too. Maybe the materia wasn't fully lighted up till they got that experience there and with it, Aerith managed to fill it up fully with this one last moment to be able to pass it on to the other Aerith, whose White materia got emptied of all the memories thanks to the Whispers.

Overall i imagine the White materia collects happy/positive memories or feelings, which then forms it, while the Black materia does the opposite and collects sad/negative memories and feelings.

 

[Yoru]

I see what you are saying. I'm honestly still very iffy on why this dream date is like it is. But if we're looking it as a sweet moment with Cloud to make memories for the white Materia I can accept it. I definitely like your interpretation here better than the one that implies she's delusionally trying to replace Zack with Cloud and in the still isn't sure if he even likes him that I keep seeing on Twitter and the like.

And her having little time makes sense.

Also watching this scene she isn't offended at being called nakama she seems pretty happy that she knows she is his friend no matter what feelings she has. So it's clear she is just happy being here with him.

I still have my grievances with how they handled her and with the implication she doesn't know her feelings even now is kind of annoying but I don't think the devs were trying to make her look bad. And I will give them the benefit of the doubt.

I can understand the date part being really strange. I didn't like it either. But when I'm only looking at the church part, I cry like a baby everytime. Just looking at her face expressions tells it all. And I'm kinda want to fight back people saying the devs did her dirty or doesn't care about her, because I just think this isn't true. Maybe there something we didn't understand yet, idk. Maybe I'm just wrong and this scene is shit.

But her goodbye, with the music gets me EVERY time. I find it beautiful and it just works. So I want to defend it lol.

 

[Hellenic]

He's just in his Uber driver era where he has to pretend to be normal. I think it will come out with his treatment of Shera, for sure.

Pretty much and i think he's just serving us as customers right now so he has to give that good customer service.

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

Edit; For me sector 5 is not so bad, because I enjoyed that date with Aerith and Cloud in Remake, I don't really hate dream date, only unsatisfying if Aerith really didn't have feelings.

I don't think I hate the scene. I just don't like how they keep her confused about her feelings for a guy and keepbringing her conflicted feelings for another guy but also spend just a lot of time on this only for her to still apparently be confused by the end? With less time to talk about her and develop her as an independent character. It's not really just this date.

I would like to know your take on it though since you found it satisfying. Maybe I'm missing something.

 

[nars305]

I can understand the date part being really strange. I didn't like it either. But when I'm only looking at the church part, I cry like a baby everytime. Just looking at her face expressions tells it all. And I'm kinda want to fight back people saying the devs did her dirty or doesn't care about her, because I just think this isn't true. Maybe there something we didn't understand yet, idk. Maybe I'm just wrong and this scene is shit.

But her goodbye, with the music gets me EVERY time. I find it beautiful and it just works. So I want to defend it lol.

It is one of my favorite scenes, next to Nanaki howling and the LS scene.

Her face every time Sephiroth’s feather appeared made my heart so heavy. How frantic she was, I felt so sorry for her.

I think it’s best to judge this scene when we have the entire picture with Part 3.

 

[ChaosandConfusion]

When I first got to the date I didn't know what was going on, I know about the materia aspect of it but I thought maybe Cloud was confused about what she was trying to say/do but could still acknowledge to himself that he reciprocates her feelings after everything was said and done. This was my thoughts on my first play through before I knew what I know now.