SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Yoru]

With Zack and Tifa cucked.
And Cloud and Aerith assholes participating in or encouraging hurtful behaviour, apparently.

@Yoru Aerith is already dead, I do not understand your post

@Ryeleigh yeah this Aerith is very meta since it’s an Aerith who’s already dead.

That's why I really try my best to understand where they're coming from. They're not bad people. Never saw them talk about Tifa to try to make their point. They're just Aerith's fans having no doubt Square Enix is doing something exceptionnal with her in the 3rd game.

 

[Rin]

Is it confirmed that Ch.14 Aerith is meta commentary?

For which game?

 

[imach0c0]

For which game?

Remake

 

[Eerie]

I mean more grandiose than the LS scene which is the story peak moment?

 

[Rin]

Remake

Yeah, confirmed meta commentary.

 

[imach0c0]

Yeah, confirmed meta commentary.

Where was it confirmed?

 

[Yoru]

I mean more grandiose than the LS scene which is the story peak moment?

I'm with you lol. That's why I'm trying to understand their POV.

I wouldn't bother with basic haters or people who refute the basic game. These are "internet friends" who knew the game with OG, fan of Aerith's character. Who totally agree with the fact that she's dead and that Cloud is living his life with Tifa at his side, but who came away from Rebirth with the clear impression that SE was changing things and preparing to give Aerith a happy, climactic ending.

 

[Rin]

Where was it confirmed?

Remake ultimania

 

[Yoru]

With Zack and Tifa cucked.
And Cloud and Aerith assholes participating in or encouraging hurtful behaviour, apparently.

So they're not really cucked.

Zack has accepted he was gone for a long time and Aerith fell in love with someone new. Basically new Cloud's Wingman.

Tifa will understand in the 3rd game that Aerith and Cloud are meant to be. That's why the game is setting up this over the top Aerith & Tifa top girlfriendship. She won't be sad because it's Aerith, it's a good thing.

That was my summary from the other side of the battlefield. Over.

 

[Eerie]

I'm with you lol. That's why I'm trying to understand their POV.

I wouldn't bother with basic haters or people who refute the basic game. These are "internet friends" who knew the game with OG, fan of Aerith's character. Who totally agree with the fact that she's dead and that Cloud is living his life with Tifa at his side, but who came away from Rebirth with the clear impression that SE was changing things and preparing to give Aerith a happy, climactic ending.

See that’s the thing though; Aerith isn’t alive nor coming back. She represents death. She’s been written to die since Remake. And it’s ok. Her role isn’t to be Cloud’s love interest. Rebirth showed the devs developing the CT romance beyond how it was ever written. How do they explain the CT near kiss, their interactions, the fact that Cloud and Tifa are shown to support each other, that Tifa can still reach out to him until ToA where he’s really fcked up? Why do they think Aerith is jealous of the CT bond?

Aerith’s own Promise Land is not Cloud. Her own happiness isn’t to be in love with him. It’s to reunite with Zack. Aerith is a Cetra, the saviour of the Planet, but this is a role she can only understand once dead. In her human, alive form, Aerith doesn’t even know how to pray.

 

[abzy1200]

that Tifa can still reach out to him until ToA where he’s really fcked up? Why do they think Aerith is jealous of the CT bond?

and even then, the whispers are preventing her from helping him, take a guess why.

 

[imach0c0]

Regarding the LTD, what would the devs have to do with the story in Part 3 to keep things clear? What would make it ambiguous?

 

[Yoru]

See that’s the thing though; Aerith isn’t alive nor coming back. She represents death. She’s been written to die since Remake. And it’s ok. Her role isn’t to be Cloud’s love interest. Rebirth showed the devs developing the CT romance beyond how it was ever written. How do they explain the CT near kiss, their interactions, the fact that Cloud and Tifa are shown to support each other, that Tifa can still reach out to him until ToA where he’s really fcked up? Why do they think Aerith is jealous of the CT bond?

Aerith’s own Promise Land is not Cloud. Her own happiness isn’t to be in love with him. It’s to reunite with Zack. Aerith is a Cetra, the saviour of the Planet, but this is a role she can only understand once dead. In her human, alive form, Aerith doesn’t even know how to pray.

Yes I know all that too well. I don't need to be convinced lol.

It's just that's it's not how they view things and I'm just trying to understand with the people who are here. That's why I'm asking our Clerith what they were searching with Rebirth, and how they really feel where this is going.

Regarding the LTD, what would the devs have to do with the story in Part 3 to keep things clear? What would make it ambiguous?

Cloud saying the words : I LOVE YOU. Simple and clean.

 

[Eerie]

Regarding the LTD, what would the devs have to do with the story in Part 3 to keep things clear? What would make it ambiguous?

We had moments in “optional scenes” - a meaningful hug, and a kiss. We’re getting I think at least 2 CT kisses next game: the LS scene and the HW scenes.

And I think the LS scene will be very clearly romantic. More than the OG one that was very romantic to me.

 

[pxl_pushr]

See that’s the problem with echo chambers, are we in one or are others in one? If you look at what they say about Tifa and how they ignore her role as one of the two heroines, you can safely say that they are living in a pretty illusion.

I try to have some awareness of my potential bias but I keep coming back to one thing: all of the non-optional segments between Cloud and Aerith feature the looming shadow of Zack. If the goal were to make this a legitimate possibility… then why kneecap both scenes in the same way? With very few opportunities ( basically 2 ) to massage that in?

Could a last minute 180 be possible? I mean sure… but that would make both Remake and Rebirth very odd pieces of the narrative. I just can’t see it happening without a monstrous change to the narrative.

 

[Yoru]

Regarding the LTD, what would the devs have to do with the story in Part 3 to keep things clear? What would make it ambiguous?

For things to not be ambiguous we have to know the point of view of everyone involved.

So from a Cloti ending perspective, a bit cliché but :

• The FF7 version of the FFX kiss cutscene
• Aerith giving her blessing with the classic "I'm happy for you two, take care of each other"

 

[abzy1200]

Could a last minute 180 be possible? I mean sure… but that would make both Remake and Rebirth very odd pieces of the narrative. I just can’t see it happening without a monstrous change to the narrative.

It obviously is possible, as in there's not really much stopping their pen from writing the script that way.

But I have more faith in Nojima than that.

and if it did 180, then it would officially be "Final Fanfiction 7" and I think a decent few people would tune out, and it would sully the game's reputation. So even if Clerith does "win" in part 3, does it really? If it tanked a franchise in the process, that is.

 

[Rin]

Regarding the LTD, what would the devs have to do with the story in Part 3 to keep things clear? What would make it ambiguous?

Clarity requires a mutual confession between whatever ship -- Clerith or Cloti, choose your fighter. But Cloti already got that in 1997 and no one cares, so no one will care in 2027 if we're being honest with ourselves.

 

[Eerie]

People think this way because the OG relied on a twist, so they think CA is the twist.

But that’s a mistake because the Remake trilogy doesn’t have the same narrative structure. Remake trilogy builds up the narrative towards CT. Here FACTS talks about it: FACTS ️ (@ffviifunfacts.bsky.social)

 

[abzy1200]

Clarity requires a mutual confession between whatever ship -- Clerith or Cloti, choose your fighter. But Cloti already got that in 1997 and no one cares, so no one will care in 2027 if we're being honest with ourselves.

"It's OptIonAL"

Yet Cloud still tells Tifa point blank, to her face, that he wants to start a life with her. "Ambiguous" my ass.

"He never says what kind of life he wants with her." If the boot was on the other foot, and Cloud said this to Aerith, we'd never hear the end of it, and that's what makes this all so annoying.

Nothing Cloud and Tifa do can be romantic, ever.

Cloud looking in Aerith's direction is undeniable proof of Clerith, though.

 

[Yoru]

But Cloti already got that in 1997 and no one cares, so no one will care in 2027 if we're being honest with ourselves.

That's why, in my opinion, they need to do more than what we've had. The 3D models with voice actors and full motion track will help. Sure.

But stop with the unspoken. Stop this AC bullshit "yeah they're a couple but not really, they're made for each other but Cloud acts like a jerk who doesn't want to play with his toy anymore now he's won it" (yeah I know, I'm exaggerating things to make my point. Don't take it the wrong way).

If their goal really is to establish Cloti, as we think it is. Let them say it openly this time.

And not that "I think I'll see her there" out of "nowhere" at the end of the game. Never again.

 

[nars305]

Tifa will understand in the 3rd game that Aerith and Cloud are meant to be. That's why the game is setting up this over the top Aerith & Tifa top girlfriendship. She won't be sad because it's Aerith, it's a good thing.

That was my summary from the other side of the battlefield. Over.

I can’t answer this for you as a Clerith, but I can’t say I’m answering it as a Cloti either because it’s hard for me to title myself that when I haven’t been in the LTD or FF7 fandom that long at all.

I went into Rebirth completely neutral. The game tells you right at the beginning that something is going on between Cloud and Tifa. It was built much differently in Remake. The “romance” aspect to me in Remake was just the option of getting to favor a certain girl if you wanted but it wasn’t that important.

However, in Rebirth Cloud and Tifa have development that feels like it’s the story as opposed to a choice I’m making. Like I said, that seed is planted in the very beginning, and as I continued to play I got more and more invested in their relationship and then Gongaga put me in a chokehold.

So I ended the game feeling like it was pretty obvious what was happening. This goes for Zack and Aerith as well.

AFTER beating the game that’s when I read the novels and etc and it only proved to me more what was going to happen. Then you see the difference in the way they program Cloud to act differently with Tifa and it’s undeniable.

So…to go back to your point. Aerith living and her and Cloud getting together with Tifa being fine with it is absurd. It immediately makes the works after the game make no sense. I choose to think of the story with no optional content, and if we did that Cloud and Tifa have the slow burn development. Aerith does not. If we add the optional content back in, they have the slow burn and he kisses her.

 

[Rin]

That's why, in my opinion, they need to do more than what we've had. The 3D models with voice actors and full motion track will help. Sure.

But stop with the unspoken. Stop this AC bullshit "yeah they're a couple but not really, they're made for each other but Cloud acts like a jerk who doesn't want to play with his toy anymore now he's won it" (yeah I know, I'm exaggerating things to make my point).

If their goal really is to establish Cloti, as we think it is. Let them say it openly this time.

And not that "I think I'll see her there" out of "nowhere" at the end of the game. Never again.

Yep, I agree. I think we need to hear Cloud say, "I love you" after his true self is restored and they seal it with a kiss.

And then I honestly don't need Aerith's blessing for them, idc about that personally bc I'm more concerned with her reuniting with Zack and clearing the air about her feelings for Cloud to HIM.

If those two things happen? I'm happy and it'll get rid of any "ambiguity".

 

[Ryushikaze]

@Ryushikaze @Gym Leader Devil

Out of boredom I was reading/skimming through old threads to do with the LTD and...oh my lord...

How did any of you ever put up with Blankbeat and others like them? Some of the stuff they're constructing arguments off of makes me want to scream at my monitor for not being able to reply to them! Surely not all of them were this bad, right? Kudos to ye, FairheartStrife, Isabella, Vendel, Quexinos, hitoshura, Tres etc. because my god I would have lost it.

I have the patience of the fucking buddha. And even then what you see on TLS is once things calmed down slightly. Beforehand it was very wild west, a bit like you get on Twitter nowadays.

Seriously, what on God's green earth indicates Cloud and Tifa would ever break up offscreen? I can't tell if I just have tunnel vision and am forgetting stuff or something from being wound up, but what is an interpretation of this compilation where Cloud and Tifa are incompatible and weren't happy together to the point they separate that isn't completely detached from any and all reasoning and evidence provided by said compilation?

Only wishful thinking from Cleriths can spin this quote in such a way for it to even possibly allude to a failed relationship between Cloud and Tifa.

Really sorry for the rant, Like I said I'm wound up, mainly from not being able to give that person my two cents.

I cut most of your post here but this is the key part. You have it correct. Wishful thinking, a hope that Cloud and Tifa won't work out so Aerith will "win" is what makes them think it indicates that. Like, they want a love story like FF8, only they want it with Cloud and Aerith instead of Squall and Rinoa. And there's a part of me that still suspects that Rinoa looking a lot like Tifa is part of why they don't accept that one.

While it annoyed me too, I think the simplest explanation is that this is supposed to be Aerith's game, her time to shine since she (hopefully) won't have nearly as much screen time in part 3, so they want you to experience Aerith's sidequests.

The same way the affection system in the original was biased towards Aerith...because they wanted to get you attached to her before she inevitably kicked the bucket.

People always say it's "biased" to her because the starts with 20 points, but you can easily match that many with Tifa before meeting Aerith a second time (IIRC, 0 is the AV floor and 255 is the limit) and then you can absolutely floor her value if you're not good at the barrel game, so I think it's partly there to play nice.
You aren't wrong the game wants you to notice and be intrigued by her, but the AV minigame is very jank and abusable so I actually wonder if they had a problem with people having trouble getting her date during playtesting.

I'm with you lol. That's why I'm trying to understand their POV.

I wouldn't bother with basic haters or people who refute the basic game. These are "internet friends" who knew the game with OG, fan of Aerith's character. Who totally agree with the fact that she's dead and that Cloud is living his life with Tifa at his side, but who came away from Rebirth with the clear impression that SE was changing things and preparing to give Aerith a happy, climactic ending.

If Aerith gets a happy Climactic ending, it will be with Zack and almost certainly be in another world/ the afterlife rather than being reborn.

So they're not really cucked.

Zack has accepted he was gone for a long time and Aerith fell in love with someone new. Basically new Cloud's Wingman.

Tifa will understand in the 3rd game that Aerith and Cloud are meant to be. That's why the game is setting up this over the top Aerith & Tifa top girlfriendship. She won't be sad because it's Aerith, it's a good thing.

That was my summary from the other side of the battlefield. Over.

I've seen that specific Clerith cope many times before, and I always laugh because Maiden, though now acanon, gives us literally the textual opposite as she wishes Cloud and Tifa the best as they are meant to be. Also, you know, punting Cloud back into his own body and back to Tifa (and to save Tifa) at the very end of the game.

I'd love in Pt3 if after the final one on one fight or glorified cutscene, Cloud is standing around in a daze, and all we hear is Aerith's voice going "Cloud, wake up. Tifa's in danger." and THAT snaps his fucking self right back to reality to action.

As for Zack, while I don't see him as being mad at either Cloud or Aerith, he's not going to give up.

 

[Yoru]

I can’t answer this for you as a Clerith, but I can’t say I’m answering it as a Cloti either because it’s hard for me to title myself that when I haven’t been in the LTD or FF7 fandom that long at all.

I went into Rebirth completely neutral. The game tells you right at the beginning that something is going on between Cloud and Tifa. It was built much differently in Remake. The “romance” aspect to me in Remake was just the option of getting to favor a certain girl if you wanted but it wasn’t that important.

However, in Rebirth Cloud and Tifa have development that feels like it’s the story as opposed to a choice I’m making. Like I said, that seed is planted in the very beginning, and as I continued to play I got more and more invested in their relationship and then Gongaga put me in a chokehold.

So I ended the game feeling like it was pretty obvious what was happening. This goes for Zack and Aerith as well.

AFTER beating the game that’s when I read the novels and etc and it only proved to me more what was going to happen. Then you see the difference in the way they program Cloud to act differently with Tifa and it’s undeniable.

So…to go back to your point. Aerith living and her and Cloud getting together with Tifa being fine with it is absurd. It immediately makes the works after the game make no sense. I choose to think of the story with no optional content, and if we did that Cloud and Tifa have the slow burn development. Aerith does not. If we add the optional content back in, they have the slow burn and he kisses her.

It's not "my" point. I'm just writing what they told me. But yes, your POV as a "new" player is definitely interesting. And I'm happy everytime someone says "Cloti is real" to know I'm not a mad man who's delulu for the last +20 years lol

I'd love in Pt3 if after the final one on one fight or glorified cutscene, Cloud is standing around in a daze, and all we hear is Aerith's voice going "Cloud, wake up. Tifa's in danger." and THAT snaps his fucking self right back to reality to action.

What's funny is that even for 1997, the scene is pretty detailed. When Cloud snaps out of the LS, you can see he's really struggling. And the moment he sees Tifa falling ? Bro enters the matrix and starts jumping from rock to rock to catch her in his arms.