SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

Hellenic

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Hellenic
I feel like Hollow being a CA song came about when people were thinking this game was some kinda time travel story this time where Cloud meets Aerith for the second time and tries to save her this time, but i always saw the song as being about Cloud himself and his hollowed out self, with some possible ties to Zack whose death pushed him into the hollowed self partially.

That said i don't really try to read too much into songs in the first place and i find it dumb that people have to use them to validate anything in the first place.
 

MelodicEnigma

Pro Adventurer
For fandom and kind of real life scenarios too—I find that justifying irrational reactions by reflecting it onto something that, on its own inspection, is completely reasonable and SHOULDN'T beget that reaction, doesn't work out logically. A kind of "they were asking for it" mentality that just isn't fair.

And yeah, life isn't fair and there's a conversation about accepting that people will act a certain way, so you can try to anticipate that. Do and Don'ts. But like as Ryeleigh expresses—where does this end, and honestly, what justifies the line where it needs to begin? Where it goes from "you shouldn't have to do that" to "its your fault"? We're talking about media, but just as well, it applies.

It overcomplicates, gives more leneincy to bad behavior, and in my experience at least, it hardly makes for productive, complete learning experience because it has to be sacrificed to justify the bad take. No breathing room. That's how you get uninformed localization conspiracies, insisting even post-CC Zack is a "womanizer", Cloud "dislikes" Aerith, and Cloud and Tifa were JUST "family friends".
 

Ryeleigh

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Rye
And yeah, life isn't fair and there's a conversation about accepting that people will act a certain way, so you can try to anticipate that. Do and Don'ts. But like as Ryeleigh expresses—where does this end, and honestly, what justifies the line where it needs to begin? Where it goes from "you shouldn't have to do that" to "its your fault"? We're talking about media, but just as well, it applies.
I'm not exactly sure when the shift happened but creators used to give fan service for all characters and ships. Like, these little nods and winks and jokes. And people took them exactly as they were supposed to: as fun little crumbs that they could use as fuel for their fanfics and imagination, lol. But then at some point, certain shippers started thinking that these fun little crumbs were totally secret clues that only they could decipher and indicated where the story was headed. You know, instead of looking at canon comprehensively. And because rarely canon is actually on these shippers' side, they started thinking that everything outside of canon was confirmation for their ship too, including but not limited to marketing, merchandise, other completely unrelated stories, etc. Like, these people exist and there is nothing a creator can do to stop them from existing. Aside from maybe obliterating their own work or never creating it in the first place?

Not an exact analogy but at some point, it's a bit like blaming the victim of stalking for the stalker constructing an entire fantasy where she or he reciprocates.

Harems still give fan service and nice moments to practically all the characters but that doesn't mean that all of them get together or that all of them even have equal feelings. Even non-harem stories have messy relationships of characters liking, disliking and ignoring each other. But that doesn't mean or indicate that all of them will be canon.

To be honest, when I think about the nitty-gritty of ship war discourse I get this feeling that people either haven't consumed a whole lot of fiction. Or they're being deliberately disingenuous, lol.

And to sort of bring this more specifically back to FF7, the only thing I would classify as deliberate bait was the theme song trailer. Otherwise, SE is pretty clear about where the story is headed and gives everyone nice moments along the way?
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
And to sort of bring this more specifically back to FF7, the only thing I would classify as deliberate bait was the theme song trailer. Otherwise, SE is pretty clear about where the story is headed and gives everyone nice moments along the way?
Yeah, that trailer is the only time I would classify that they deliberately baited CA fans. Especially since a whole lot of them were super smug afterwards.
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
Yeah, sorry for the confusion, thanks for clearing that up some Eerie and Melodic. At the concerts
the date is used for NPTK and the flower quest for Hollow. Depending on the venue/country/time slot there were additional scenes like beach scene and dream date also used (along with the GS date, Cloud with the flower petal, etc) for NPTK.
However I wasn't saying that equates to Hollow being all about CA, I was trying to say it might be multifaceted xD
There's a remixed version of Hollow playing in the zone when you approach Midgar, IIRC. Which makes sense since it's there that it plays in Remake too.

Yeah, that trailer is the only time I would classify that they deliberately baited CA fans. Especially since a whole lot of them were super smug afterwards.
I saw it as a love message to Aerith who was about to die personally. I saw it and my first reaction was "oh Aerith, you're so going to die", it was very obvious to me. But knowing Nomura made that trailer, I wouldn't be surprised if he trolled CAs on the side for a bit, he's known to dislike some of them since they sent him death threats for over 2 decades.
 

Ryeleigh

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Rye
I saw it as a love message to Aerith who was about to die personally. I saw it and my first reaction was "oh Aerith, you're so going to die", it was very obvious to me. But knowing Nomura made that trailer, I wouldn't be surprised if he trolled CAs on the side for a bit, he's known to dislike some of them since they sent him death threats for over 2 decades.
Maybe not the whole trailer but the "omg! they are going to kiss!" trip, lol. And what happened in the actual game? They were both so weirded out that they had to sit in a shaken silence for a second, lol.

And yikes at the death threats. :no:
 

Skilganon

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Tim
In the whole scheme of things, the Cloud/Aerith optional scenes being in the credits seems a minor thing. But nonetheless, a decision was made.

The credits in Rebirth has scenes taken out after Aerith's death. They want you to look at the credits, it's not an afterthought.

I don't presume to know why. Maybe I'm being paranoid and cynical to an extreme. A lot of people seem to think of the Aerith dates being more canon, or at least more relevant to the story than the others. And we could say, "Why would you read so much into the credits?" And yet someone, Nomura maybe, decided to do the credits this way. I'm curious about what their thought process was.

In a recent interview, Nomura stated that he "didn't want to get peoples' hopes up" by introducing the concept of defying Fate to Remake. Like a lot of other things he's said over the past 20+ years, it smells like BS. You can't have worked on this series for that long and not suspect people will think you can revive Aerith if you start talking about defying Fate. So why introduce it at all?

Either they're playing with people or they are extraordinarily terrible at managing the expectations of their fans.
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
Because devs think about characters' arcs, relationships, and characterisations. The ending credits are not for Cloud, they're for AERITH. To Aerith her relationship with Cloud was important so they put scenes. They took off some of the ending scenes because it was not her. Credits are also for her fans because they won't see her as much in p3. She will still be there and important, but much less present. I expect credits for p3 to show a lot of Tifa and CT scenes too. Because p3 will be Tifa's game just as much as Rebirth was Aerith's game.

And the devs keep saying again and again that the Re-trilogy will be like the OG in terms opf narrative, but it hasn't stopped fans from pretending they were lying... when they weren't. Honestly theorybros are hilarious on this, they've pretended that there were going to be a lot of huge changes in the story for Rebirth and in the end it's CT fans who were right when we kept saying "hey it's the same story happening, the devs even said so several times!" I even before the game was released had made a post in reddit in answer to another how I thought the Zack world was inside the Lifestream and got mocked because obviously it was totally an AU where Zack survived. Lol. So whatever, fans will believe whatever they want to and are hyped up for by a certain type of fans (may they be shippers or theorybros).

At some point the devs haven't lied for p1, neither for p2, you got to trust their words and what they put in game. They cannot feed you MORE than what they are doing already.

Edit: typos -_-
 
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null

Mr. Thou
AKA
null
If I wanted Cloud with Aerith, I would be pissed at ReTrilogy. Why are Cloud and Tifa constantly in each other's arms, touching each other, alone with each other, reaching for each other, yelling each other's names, invading each other's personal spaces?

Why'd they change the flower scene so Cloud always gives it to Tifa, and make a point of Aerith noticing it later?

Why does Aerith say "you can't fall in love with me, it's not real?" in her own affection scene?

Why does she pull Cloud on dates just to remind him how special Tifa is?

Why am I seeing Aerith's old flame being a knight in shining armor and holding her? Why doesn't Tifa's old flame (oh wait)

Why is Tifa lifting her shirt up to show Cloud her scar, even though she's pissed at him, as if he's close enough to show something that intimate?

Why does Tifa get the only kiss scene, when this is Aerith's last chance for one?

What the hell is with up with "I like you, but there's different kinds of like" when, once again, she's saying goodbye?

Why did Cloud move in with a woman he doesn't love, but is clearly madly in love with him?

Why can't I have a love story that doesn't make Cloud and Aerith into gaping assholes?

You have to ignore ALL that and more to get to the Rebirth credits to get the Illuminati code proving Aerith is the official canon love interest. Why can't they just show that and end things with Tifa unambiguously? They had no problem taking the Jessie ship out back and shooting it. (Well, to be fair, they might have had a little outside motivation.)

In a recent interview, Nomura stated that he "didn't want to get peoples' hopes up" by introducing the concept of defying Fate to Remake. Like a lot of other things he's said over the past 20+ years, it smells like BS. You can't have worked on this series for that long and not suspect people will think you can revive Aerith if you start talking about defying Fate. So why introduce it at all?

Either they're playing with people or they are extraordinarily terrible at managing the expectations of their fans.

Honestly, you have a point. We literally kill Fate and end with "The Unknown Journey Will Continue" but then "don't worry, we're not drastically changing things". Um... if you're not messing with fans, why not just end the game with that line instead. I guess it doesn't sound as dramatic.
 

Skilganon

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Tim
It's not the content of the Retrilogy I'm concerned about. Obviously the devs are developing the CT relationship in ways we haven't seen before. My concern is mainly about what the devs say in interviews and the messaging surrounding the games. I've never been in their position, perhaps it is extremely stressful and you're pulled in all sorts of directions. Some part of me thinks the baiting is deliberate.
 

null

Mr. Thou
AKA
null
It's not the content of the Retrilogy I'm concerned about. Obviously the devs are developing the CT relationship in ways we haven't seen before. My concern is mainly about what the devs say in interviews and the messaging surrounding the games. I've never been in their position, perhaps it is extremely stressful and you're pulled in all sorts of directions. Some part of me thinks the baiting is deliberate.

Yeah that wasn't aimed at you. It's for the people who miss the plot because they were too busy crawling through the end credits with a magnifying glass going "a-HA!!!" 🕵️‍♂️
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
It's not the content of the Retrilogy I'm concerned about. Obviously the devs are developing the CT relationship in ways we haven't seen before. My concern is mainly about what the devs say in interviews and the messaging surrounding the games. I've never been in their position, perhaps it is extremely stressful and you're pulled in all sorts of directions. Some part of me thinks the baiting is deliberate.
But what do they say? They always said since REMAKE that it was going to follow the OG beats. Fans did not want to believe. Nojima, Nomura talked about the CT relationship and highlighted the importance of that relationship, before REMAKE and REBIRTH respectively. And trust me, to get NOMURA to talk about this kind of thing... CT fans were really really hyped.

And they talked about much more actually but very little was heard. It's the fact that people only focused on Aerith's death that made the PR until well into January a disaster, because the devs thought we wanted to hear about it more - but no, a lot of players were exhausted by this PR. That's the only thing we can really say the devs went too far with, honestly. The rest of their statements is on par with everything they delivered.
 

Dr Frasier Crane

Pro Adventurer
The key marketing tagline for this game was: “DEFY FATE TOGETHER”!

They’re messing with us, man!

To be a bit more serious though: wherever the final game takes us, there’s only three outcomes for the fandom conceivable at this point. Group A gets shafted; Group B gets shafted; or everyone ends up with a bitter taste in their mouths because nothing was clarified.
 

pxl_pushr

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Pixel
The key marketing tagline for this game was: “DEFY FATE TOGETHER”!

They’re messing with us, man!

To be a bit more serious though: wherever the final game takes us, there’s only three outcomes for the fandom conceivable at this point. Group A gets shafted; Group B gets shafted; or everyone ends up with a bitter taste in their mouths because nothing was clarified.

I mean, I personally like the idea that they recreated similar attempts for the game to manipulate and misdirect your expectations in ways completely unique to itself ( though the full execution has yet to be seen ).

Not everyone will appreciate it, and I can already see the angry posts and YT videos about how SE lied because the game about misinformation, mistaken identity, and subtle manipulation… manipulated them.

The look back on all this is definitely going to be entertaining, that’s for sure.
 
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Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
It is not on SE that some people are fucking stupid.

I encountered someone- today- who thinks Cloud and Tifa run an orphanage in Advent Children because he didn't understand that when Rufus talks about Cloud taking care of orphans, he means Denzel and Marlene.

This fandom is full of people who are grossly media illiterate, and some who are just plain illiterate beyond that.
 

Skilganon

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Tim
I thought Cloud and Tifa ran an orphanage until I watched AC for a second time. I think I just made that association because protagonists in a lot of media from East Asian countries often start helping orphans when they're not fighting bad guys. Aerith does work at the orphanage in sector 5 in her spare time. Tifa also looked after Marlene. I don't think it's that far-fetched of an idea. I've seen much worse takes.
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
I thought Cloud and Tifa ran an orphanage until I watched AC for a second time. I think I just made that association because protagonists in a lot of media from East Asian countries often start helping orphans when they're not fighting bad guys. Aerith does work at the orphanage in sector 5 in her spare time. Tifa also looked after Marlene. I don't think it's that far-fetched of an idea. I've seen much worse takes.
It's not the idea that someone might misunderstand that on first viewing. It's the pigheaded obstinance to continue insisting on it in spite of the evidence that I'm talking about. The fandom made a mistake and they're refusing to admit it.

That's not on SE at this point.
 

Ryeleigh

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Rye
It's not the idea that someone might misunderstand that on first viewing. It's the pigheaded obstinance to continue insisting on it in spite of the evidence that I'm talking about. The fandom made a mistake and they're refusing to admit it.

That's not on SE at this point.
Don't you know that if you're consistently wrong for years then obviously it's someone else's fault? :desu:

Shaking my head at y'all. No wonder you're all mean Clotis.

Joking, lol. ❤️
 

pxl_pushr

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Pixel
It's not the idea that someone might misunderstand that on first viewing. It's the pigheaded obstinance to continue insisting on it in spite of the evidence that I'm talking about. The fandom made a mistake and they're refusing to admit it.

That's not on SE at this point.
Or that you’re somehow owed the story they fooled you into thinking it was: a sequel retelling where a certain character WILL live and alter the whole course of the story you wanted remade.

It’s the exact same feeling as someone who thought they were morally/ethically wronged when Aerith died in the original game. Exact same techniques, different target. People (me included I’ll admit) fell for it again.

Some people see it, laugh and respect it. Others see it, deny it, and triple down.

This story is different, it’s just not different in the way some people wanted and that’s their real issue. Btw, not talking about people put off by the more confusing stuff surrounding the Whispers. I think they’re at least open and honest about what they’re put off by.
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
Or that you’re somehow owed the story they fooled you into thinking it was: a sequel retelling where a certain character WILL live and alter the whole course of the story you wanted remade.
Before Remake, on this very same forum, people said "be careful, Aerith's going to die again but they're going to make you hope you can save her this time" and right after Remake people were arguing we would save Aerith.

I argued again and again that she would die. I want to explain it but from a writing perspective, her fate lies in the Lifestream, always has. She literally has nothing to do in the living world past her death; because then we focus on getting back real Cloud (and that's Tifa's job, you can't give it to Aerith) and getting rid of Weapons, Sephiroth, Wutai plot (which is Yuffie's).

Thematically, they'd also need someone to die to encompass the death theme and... her death was written all over Remake - no I'm not talking about the visions, I'm saying by how they treated her and how you look at her Remake themes, her being linked to death was quite obvious.

The fact that people fell for it is well done from the devs, but it was easy to analyse what you had as information and deduce that she was still going to die nonetheless. I loved Aerith in Remake, I wished she was going to live, but I knew it wasn't a possibility.
 

null

Mr. Thou
AKA
null
I mean, I personally like the idea that they recreated similar attempts for the game to manipulate and misdirect your expectations in ways completely unique to itself ( though the full execution has yet to be seen ).

Not everyone will appreciate it, and I can already see the angry posts and YT videos about how SE lied because the game about misinformation, mistaken identity, and subtle manipulation… manipulated them.

The look back on all this is definitely going to be entertaining, that’s for sure.

In hindsight, I don't feel like I was manipulated or misled by OG. The plot twists were walking around in broad daylight. Like Aerith going alone to an abandoned city to stop Sephiroth and "I'll come back when it's all over." Holy death flags Batman. And then Sephiroth was just chilling in the trees in Cloud's brain and he's like, yeah I heard all that. Let's go do something about her. So of course she got killed. She did something really dangerous and made it worse by telling someone she knew was compromised. Why was I ever surprised?

Because... drum roll... I was 100% sure that a mainstream game would not kill the special, last-of-her-kind, white mage, love interest, vibrantly colored flower girl. It was that simple. My own goddamn brain was doing the Jenova static when told otherwise.

I guess tropes are implicitly based on trust, because they're usually shorthand so the audience can digest the main story without getting distracted. And when they get subverted, it can feel like that trust was violated. But at the same time, whose fault is it if I'm ignoring what I'm shown, and only seeing what I expect to see? If I ended up emotionally invested, should I be angry with the writers? Or applaud them for creating characters that made me care enough to get angry? (Or in my case, applaud FFVII and then be annoyed at Advent Children for subverting my expectations of what death means?)

Anyway, yeah, I think what FFVII and Fight Club and Bioshock and (early) Game of Thrones do is generally the good kind of "manipulation", where the twist feels shocking but in reality it's just the plot chickens coming home to roost. And as you mentioned before, ReTrilogy might be setting us up for the exact same thing, in a way that will catch even wily veterans like us by surprise.

Do I think it's ok to be manipulated from outside the story itself... I don't know. Maybe in my mind there's a difference between the two. The game suggesting one thing and Kitase assuring us that it's something else rubs me the wrong way. But maybe he just said something I didn't want to hear. So yeah, there's some hypocrisy on my part there. Subvert my expectations, but only when I'm expecting it.
 

pxl_pushr

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Pixel
In hindsight, I don't feel like I was manipulated or misled by OG. The plot twists were walking around in broad daylight. Like Aerith going alone to an abandoned city to stop Sephiroth and "I'll come back when it's all over." Holy death flags Batman. And then Sephiroth was just chilling in the trees in Cloud's brain and he's like, yeah I heard all that. Let's go do something about her. So of course she got killed. She did something really dangerous and made it worse by telling someone she knew was compromised. Why was I ever surprised?

Because... drum roll... I was 100% sure that a mainstream game would not kill the special, last-of-her-kind, white mage, love interest, vibrantly colored flower girl. It was that simple. My own goddamn brain was doing the Jenova static when told otherwise.

I guess tropes are implicitly based on trust, because they're usually shorthand so the audience can digest the main story without getting distracted. And when they get subverted, it can feel like that trust was violated. But at the same time, whose fault is it if I'm ignoring what I'm shown, and only seeing what I expect to see? If I ended up emotionally invested, should I be angry with the writers? Or applaud them for creating characters that made me care enough to get angry? (Or in my case, applaud FFVII and then be annoyed at Advent Children for subverting my expectations of what death means?)

Anyway, yeah, I think what FFVII and Fight Club and Bioshock and (early) Game of Thrones do is generally the good kind of "manipulation", where the twist feels shocking but in reality it's just the plot chickens coming home to roost. And as you mentioned before, ReTrilogy might be setting us up for the exact same thing, in a way that will catch even wily veterans like us by surprise.

Do I think it's ok to be manipulated from outside the story itself... I don't know. Maybe in my mind there's a difference between the two. The game suggesting one thing and Kitase assuring us that it's something else rubs me the wrong way. But maybe he just said something I didn't want to hear. So yeah, there's some hypocrisy on my part there. Subvert my expectations, but only when I'm expecting it.
By the time you’re hitting up Temple of the Ancients in OG, I think the game banks on you suspecting something is going to happen to Aerith, and then the death flags go off repeatedly.

Similarly though, in ReTrilogy I do think they’re also banking on fans hyper-focusing on Aerith’s death and sneaking lore and plot points right under people’s noses because they know that’s what people will do.

Then I hesitate to give SE that much credit. Certainly people aren’t that predictable… but then I see the cycles people loop through on Twitter and think maybe people are that predictable?
 

Skilganon

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Tim
Think of it from a logical perspective. If I was the leader of a massive game company currently remaking one of my most popular titles, would I:

1. Change the protagonists end-game ship, or

2. Portray the end-game ship in a more positive light. (<-----)

I think it's clear which one makes more sense. We can see this in the Remake series. The idea of Remaking FFVII just so that C and A can be together at the end is just such a bizarre expectation. Millions of fans would immediately lose trust in SE. To say nothing of the concrete story details.
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
I think Aerith surviving the story not only changes the themes that are pretty much the core of what FFVII is but it also derails basically everything that happens in the second half of the story.

At that point, it would just be an entirely new/different game. But I suppose that's what some people wanted.
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
Think of it from a logical perspective. If I was the leader of a massive game company currently remaking one of my most popular titles, would I:

1. Change the protagonists end-game ship, or

2. Portray the end-game ship in a more positive light. (<-----)

I think it's clear which one makes more sense. We can see this in the Remake series. The idea of Remaking FFVII just so that C and A can be together at the end is just such a bizarre expectation. Millions of fans would immediately lose trust in SE. To say nothing of the concrete story details.
This is not a logical perspective.

They're just redoing the OG with new tropes. It's not about pushing CT in a "more positive light" because CT has always been great, to such an extent even with just the OG they made it to my very short OTP list. But they changed how they storytelled FFVII, and decided to not rely on the surprise of finding the truth but rather make a cohesive story where you can finally understand better everyone's motivations. As I always said, in the OG, the only way to understand why Tifa would choose to stay by Cloud's side in Mideel is to follow the Tifa route, except the game kind of tricks you into following the Aerith route, which makes Tifa's choice rather out of there - and that's without getting into the mistranslation that happens at this point.

So how come after all these years, with everything that SE said to support CT, are we still stuck here, with CT being the most controversial canon FF ship? Well, there are several things that led us to where we are:
1. Translations in the OG:

No matter what, it all starts here with a lot of Tifa or CT lines being mistranslated and giving infamously the bad idea to people. It didn't prevent Tifa from becoming super popular, but it took a while I think in the West, compared to Japan where she took off immediately (proof is they added the train station scene because of this according to the devs... scene that was mistranslated BTW).

2. AC + early CoT:

AC was a botch from the devs; they were young and learning a lot but story-wise and character-wise and writing-wise it was a terrible idea. So bad that they had to make ACC a few years later to dispel bad ideas, but it was too late: a lot of people had seen AC, but weren't aware of ACC because they weren't in fandom. It left their perception shafted. As for OtWtaS, including and especially CoT, those were the first novellas Nojima ever wrote, and it shows. CoT missed by a mile showing CT as a couple, seriously, and even its updated version still is poor, compared to TKaA's ending, where they show up for like, a page.

3. Misperceptions and misconceptions:

That one has been talked about recently by one of the devs, and it's really interesting because I had the same conclusion: a lot of fans did not understand FFVII, its story, characters or themes at all. Some of them played once when young, so of course they weren't able to grasp what the game was telling them. Then you have adults who also only played once more than two decades ago and rely on bad memories. The game surely made an impact, but at what price?

It doesn't help that the game sells the player a sweet honey trap, aka Aerith and CA. It was so strong that it did lead people to believe that Cloud loved her and not Tifa, or that he would be with her if she hadn't died, etc. CA is part of the illusion, and personally until the LS scene, I was thinking we'd get Cloud talking about her past his speech... but no. Many actually missed that Cloud, if in love with Aerith, should've voiced it somehow, but instead he went to Tifa to tell her that only her opinions, which was the breaking of the illusion.

4. CAs:

Of course, but I would say they are mostly "in their role", aka they're the ones who don't/can't let go of the idea of being canon (because that's what we're talking about; I don't care if people ship CA, I care if they pretend it's canon). The problem I have of course is the lies, the mistranslations, the perpetual moving goals that really make me raise an eyebrow.

5. Non-shippers:

Basically, this is probably one of the worst part: they perpetuate two myths:
  • Cloud loved both girls
  • Cloud would have chosen Aerith had she lived
I already talked about the latter, but the ones who say Cloud loved both girls clearly haven't thought this through, what it truly means for Tifa; if Cloud loved both girls, there would be no need for a Tifa. If he loved both girls, it would be very insulting for Tifa, and I don't think that's the devs' plan.

6. Theorybros:

It is especially annoying because those guys are supposed to understand Tifa's role and to some extent, they DO. But they don't think of her as an heroine at all, Aerith is their favourite and they do not understand the Lifestream scene nor what it truly means. They do get that Tifa is the lover, but to them that's all she is; they can't fathom that her role is what it is, as they try to give it to Aerith at every turn - which shows that Aerith is the only one they consider as the only heroine, and by that, why is it that such an important role isn't tied to her? So they only look at Aerith and ignore Tifa, because the former is the Cetra, the last of her kind, so much wasted potential while the latter is just a normal human. It's sad but it's the truth, and they propagate these kind of ideas through their videos, by saying how Aerith is totally going to be in the LS, her death will be shown there etc. Like dudes, you are just showing me how inept you are at theorycrafting, but a good chunk of the fandom eats their words as if that was the truth.

So a mix of all these things really sent bad signals from SE and the fandom both. Because of Aerith's importance to FFVII, people thought that surely she was the lover and it stayed that way. The fact that SE has dispelled this notion but people still hang onto it though? It's MADNESS. And as Ryu said, it's not on SE anymore, as they have pushed CT as the canon pairing for over 15 years now.
 
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