SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[LNK]

Just so you know. That lenghty conversation about Cloud dancing? I was hearing this in my head

Now, about the shipping thing.
When the Highwind scene wil happen, who will be on top? My vote goes to Tifa.

Lol that was pretty funny. Voice made me cringe though

 

[LNK]

How about we just go with things everyone agrees with?
Like Cloud has feelings for both girls, is that fair to say?

Yes please!

 

[Maidenofwar]

Both girls get hugging, touching, handholding, rolling on the ground, catch in arm scenes, etc. There's only one kisser in this game though ?

 

[Graymouse]

How about we just go with things everyone agrees with?
Like Cloud has feelings for both girls, is that fair to say?

That is no fun.

Guys, honestly this is great! All (shipping) kidding aside. I can't remember how long it has been since I had a good discussion about a video game that we all obviously love and cherish. This community is great and I am glad that I found it and proud to be a member......



Tifa and Cloud for Life!

 

[a_apple]

That is no fun.

Guys, honestly this is great! All (shipping) kidding aside. I can't remember how long it has been since I had a good discussion about a video game that we all obviously love and cherish. This community is great and I am glad that I found it and proud to be a member......



Tifa and Cloud for Life!

No I mean we take that as jumping point, maybe there is someone who disagrees?

 

[Cat on Mars]

How about we just go with things everyone agrees with?
Like Cloud has feelings for both girls, is that fair to say?

NO! Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.

Watched both. Feel like I lost 7 minutes of my life.

Lol that was pretty funny. Voice made me cringe though

This thread is cringe after all, so it's fitting

 

[Master Bates]

How about we just go with things everyone agrees with?
Like Cloud has feelings for both girls, is that fair to say?

But what feelings?

 

[Graymouse]

Both girls get hugging, touching, handholding, rolling on the ground, catch in arm scenes, etc. There's only one kisser in this game though ?

Yeah, only Jessie gets that distinct honor. But she dead.....1 down 1 to go!

Soon it will only be one! So there you have it, thread over. Tifa wins be default.

 

[a_apple]

I feel like Cloud would go for any girl as long as she is nice to him, which makes sense if you considere that he is 16 mentally. But I do think he values Tifa and Aerith as his friends and wants to be there for them.

Still tho I feel that the game is laying the groundwork for Cloud and Tifa ending up together.

 

[Cat on Mars]

This thread in a nutshell.

But what feelings?

There's a joke about something related to your username somewhere

Still tho I feel that the game is laying the groundwork for Cloud and Tifa.

I had the same feeling, tbh.

 

[Scot-88]

Both girls get hugging, touching, handholding, rolling on the ground, catch in arm scenes, etc. There's only one kisser in this game though ?

 

[Graymouse]

I feel like Cloud would go for any girl as long as she is nice to him, which makes sense if you considere that he is 16 mentally. But I do think he values Tifa and Aerith as his friends and wants to be there for them.

Still tho I feel that the game is laying the groundwork for Cloud and Tifa ending up together.

Honestly, since that translation was released I am having a real hard time swallowing that pill. I don't like how they are portraying that in Cloud. It kinda cheapens the whole thing in my honest opinion.

However, I do understand that he has been in the fish tank for 5 years or so. So it is understandable. I feel that there has to be a better way to tell the story other than making Cloud mentally ill.

However, now that I think about it, It really makes Tifa's role that much more important in the end game. So, I guess there is a bright side, I guess.

BTW shame on Aerith and Tifa for taking advantage of a mentally ill man who is trapped in a 16 year old brain. Shame shame!

 

[a_apple]

Honestly, since that translation was released I am having a real hard time swallowing that pill. I don't like how they are portraying that in Cloud. It kinda cheapens the whole thing in my honest opinion.

However, I do understand that he has been in the fish tank for 5 years or so. So it is understandable. I feel that it has got to be a better way though to tell that story other than making Cloud mentally ill.

However, now that I think about it, It really makes Tifa's role that much more important in the end game. So, I guess there is a bright side, I guess.

BTW shame on Aerith and Tifa for taking advantage of a mentally ill man who is trapped in a 16 year old brain. Shame shame!

That's why I have the feeling she isn't really into him in the remake, since she seems to already know, about Cloud not being well/ his mental situation.

 

[Enthralled]

BTW, don't think that I am diminishing Aerith and Cloud. However, in the examples above the evidence is just not there to support that this is a Aerith and Cloud only moments. Especially Wall Market, where there are other larger plot points being told. Sorry, I just don't see it.

this sounds immensely arbitrary tbh. "The plot is also moving forward, and that is bad" could be used to dismiss Mideel too. Making your romance scenes something the rest of the game has to stop for to be "pure" is extremely ad hoc.
The fact people agreed with this argument is pretty clear bias I'd say lol

I am sorry but I disagree. Aerith is not the focal point of the mission not matter how hard you try to spin it. Yes, Aerith watched Cloud but Aerith did not motivate Cloud to dance for her. I am not understanding where you are seeing this. Again, Cloud did not dance for Aerith at all. It was a routine that he had to do to gain Andrea's favor to save Tifa. That is the focus point of that chapter.

Please help me understand where you are coming from? It just doesn't exist in my view point.

Guy thinks girl is hot. cool. Doesn't change the goal of the chapter. Interactions like what? The colosseum. the dance. the dress? All for the shared goal of saving Tifa. No one is saying your ship is invalid. But I can't think of any interaction outside the optional red dress reveal that can be considered a ship moment. Unless you are claiming the whole dance and dress thing was all for Aerith. In which case go back and read the last few pages of people explaining why it's not. It isn't even a Tifa ship moment. It is a Cloud moment. This is the problem. With all the great moments for Cloud and Aerith in the game. People seem to be claiming moments for their ship that defy logic. Just because for this instant in time your ship isn't the focal point of the interactions does not mean it is diminished.

I'm not even sure what that last point meant. So... okay

A lot of really strict criteria for what counts, which are clearly personal standards and rationalizations. Not actually something we can really believe the game obeys because why would it arbitrarily limit how it can portray things? Guys, Cloud wants to accompany Aerith in because it's dangerous and he's about to forfeit that until she's there cheering him on. Even trying to argue this serves the ultimate goal of helping Tifa doesn't change his proximate motivation is highlighted right there. And she was the one who pushed him to help Tifa anyway.

But I mean, if "the focal of the chapter" is all that matters then the climax is in fact one big Cloud and Aerith ship moment.

It's pretty rich to accuse someone of devaluing Tifa in a scene instigated by Aerith the whole way through. Cloud says Corneo's place seems dangerous to Aerith out of concern for her and Tifa (but mostly Aerith whom he is about to lead into it and his caution can spare), Aerith says she agrees and has an idea, Aerith leads him to the Honeybee, Cloud gets annoyed and is about to leave but sees Aerith watching him and cheering. You can read into this the idea that Cloud remembered his overall mission (saving Tifa) but the focus is totally on Aerith and that can't be read out of it. Trying to claim this as an esoteric Cloud and Tifa moment is pretty greedy.

 

[Master Bates]

There's a joke about something related to your username somewhere

Well tbh, when I originally registered here I initially wanted my name to be Master Bait. The plan was to troll and post flame bait for as long as I can before getting banned.

For some reason, I couldn't register under the name so I just took Norman's surname and ran with it. What came along with that was a change of plans and so here I am.

Back to the thread, CloTi is still my horse in this race. Can't really say I ship it, but I am partial to their dynamic. I also agree about apple's impression of this remake regarding the progression of the LTD. It does make a solid foundation for CloTi in a way the OG didn't.

 

[Graymouse]

this sounds immensely arbitrary tbh. "The plot is also moving forward, and that is bad" could be used to dismiss Mideel too.
The fact people agreed with this argument is pretty clear bias lol

I see your point, but you are however leaving out what I was responding to. I was going through his bullet points about relationships between characters.

Nursing Cloud back to health is the most important thing on Tifa's mind at the point in the game. Cloud is her world.

So, in that quote we were talking about the relationship between Aerith and Cloud and not saving the world.

As the story progresses bigger plot points come up. I am not dismissing that at all.

However, if we are only focusing on relationships, at that point in the game Cloud is Tifa's entire existence. Thus, why Tifa chose to stay by Clouds side. While the rest of the gang fights off Weapon and tries to get the Huge materia.

I do see your point though.

 

[Enthralled]

I see your point, but you are however leaving out what I was responding to. I was going through his bullet points about relationships between characters.

Nursing Cloud back to health is the most important thing on Tifa's mind at the point in the game. Cloud is her world.

So, in that quote we were talking about the relationship between Aerith and Cloud and not saving the world.

As the story progresses bigger plot points come up. I am not dismissing that at all.

However, if we are only focusing on relationships, at that point in the game Cloud is Tifa's entire existence. Thus, why Tifa chose to stay by Clouds side. While the rest of the gang fights off Weapon and tries to get the Huge materia.

I do see your point though.

I am gonna be honest with you, I don't think it's a coincidence you have this standard and also love a character whose story obligations are almost entirely their relationship to another character. Because it's a standard which rewards that.

Maybe my mind will change when I study the many pages I missed but all I saw was people dismissing Cloud and Aerith moments (while claiming not to) because there was theoretically a drop of Tifa sprinkled in. Which I guess would mean something like the Hug can no longer be romantic but somehow I doubt it. There's probably a rationale for that being romantic despite Aerith being brought up outright and it being against the backdrop of saving her.

 

[Scot-88]

this sounds immensely arbitrary tbh. "The plot is also moving forward, and that is bad" could be used to dismiss Mideel too.
The fact people agreed with this argument is pretty clear bias lol



A lot of really strict criteria for what counts, which are clearly personal standards and rationalizations. Not actually something we can really believe the game obeys because why would it arbitrarily limit how it can portray things? Guys, Cloud wants to accompany Aerith in because it's dangerous and he's about to forfeit that until she's there cheering him on. Even trying to argue this serves the ultimate goal of helping Tifa doesn't change his proximate motivation is highlighted right there. And she was the one who pushed him to help Tifa anyway.

But I mean, if "the focal of the chapter" is all that matters then the climax is in fact one big Cloud and Aerith ship moment.

I legit don't understand half of what you wrote and you keep editing it. But as you seem to be saying I was pushing my bias (which I have stated, I don't ship anyone) I am gonna assume like the others, you are the one with the bias and are attempting to bend facts to suit your ship. And as I have already went through this with the others and came out the other side. I'm good bro.

 

[Graymouse]

Well tbh, when I originally registered here I initially wanted my name to be Master Bait. The plan was to troll and post flame bait for as long as I can before getting banned.

For some reason, I couldn't register under the name so I just took Norman's surname and ran with it. What came along with that was a change of plans and so here I am.

Back to the thread, CloTi is still my horse in this race. Can't really say I ship it, but I am partial to their dynamic. I also agree about apple's impression of this remake regarding the progression of the LTD. It does make a solid foundation for CloTi in a way the OG didn't.

This I find very interesting and it might be the reason why there is so much push back from the Aerith x Cloud. Especially with the amount of things in the Remake that are clearly pushing Tifa X Cloud (including Aerith herself) this go 'round that they might be feeling pressured about what they thought they knew about Aerith's relationship was wrong all along. (I am trolling here)

SE made it a point that both girls get equal time until you know Aerith's untimely exit. Then it is all about Tifa!

 

[Graymouse]

I am gonna be honest with you, I don't think it's a coincidence you have this standard and also love a character whose story obligations are almost entirely their relationship to another character. Because it's a standard which rewards that.

Maybe my mind will change when I study the many pages I missed but all I saw was people dismissing Cloud and Aerith moments (while claiming not to) because there was theoretically a drop of Tifa sprinkled in. Which I guess would mean something like the Hug can no longer be romantic but somehow I doubt it. There's probably a rationale for that being romantic despite Aerith being brought up outright and it being against the backdrop of saving her.

The thing is from the get go, I have never hid that I am bias towards Tifa and Cloud. In fact I did mention that in a lot of my posts. That is for sure. The thing is the over arching story of FF7 is Cloud finding himself and defeating his inner demons and saving the world in the process. I am not dismissing Aerith's role in mending Cloud's mind. However, there are others that are pushing absolute nonsense as romance, and when other people like myself call it out, the person can't see the other sides point of view. That is the only issue really. I look forward to talking with you with an open mind.

 

[Enthralled]

I legit don't understand half of what you wrote and you keep editing it. But as you seem to be saying I was pushing my bias (which I have stated, I don't ship anyone) I am gonna assume like the others, you are the one with the bias and are attempting to bend facts to suit your ship. And as I have already went through this with the others and came out the other side. I'm good bro.

I think it's pretty clear what I said: nobody should pretend the game is operating under your standards. And I found your standards really tortured.

SE made it a point that both girls get equal time until you know Aerith's untimely exit. Then it is all about Tifa!

Story is still mostly about Aerith. It would depend greatly on if they hold to "equal time" for the next part like they did for this one. Maybe they will but you could also argue they wanted to make their first installment about managing their brand.

The thing is from the get go, I have never hid that I am bias towards Tifa and Cloud. In fact I did mention that in a lot of my posts. That is for sure. The thing is the over arching story of FF7 is Cloud finding himself and defeating his inner demons and saving the world in the process. I am not dismissing Aerith's role in mending Cloud's mind. However, there are others that are pushing absolute nonsense as romance, and when other people like myself call it out, the person can't see the other sides point of view. That is the only issue really. I look forward to talking with you.

Excellent we agree. I mean I mostly commented on how it demonstrated a wider bias than your own, and then added your rationale was clearly tailored to reward the relationship you already liked.
And pushing the Dance scene as romance is not nonsense. Toriyama does it.

https://www.famitsu.com/news/202004/13196429.html

"The English song title for the dance battle at Toriyama Mitsubee no Yakata wanted to make the romantic feelings of the two people gradually rise with a sexy image, but it was difficult for my vocabulary, so I proposed to the localization team. I received it and chose one close to the image among them. I think it was a cool title for Japanese people. "
Rough but you get the idea.

 

[youffie]

So, I went to sleep and there were like five pages to this thread. Is this what an active LTD thread looks like?

Both girls get hugging, touching, handholding, rolling on the ground, catch in arm scenes, etc. There's only one kisser in this game though ?

I want to take this opportunity to remind everyone that YUFFIE KISSED CLOUD FIRST in 1997, and she also slapped his awkward ass five seconds later god bless her

There you go, please resume the actual discussion, I go back to work

 

[Scot-88]

He did dance for Aerith. He tried to leave the dance floor twice but stopped and turned back when he saw Aerith excited in the audience and he went back to dance. I think it is in Chapter 4 and Chapter 7 including to Tifa and Barrett that Cloud says he doesn't dance and he still tries to get out of it later but then he sees Aerith in the audience and turns back.

Well shipping is tough work. So I heard.

I think it's pretty clear what I said: nobody should pretend the game is operating under your standards. And I found your standards really tortured.


Story is still mostly about Aerith. It would depend greatly on if they hold to "equal time" for the next part like they did for this one. Maybe they will but you could also argue they wanted to make their first installment about managing their brand.


Excellent we agree. I mean I mostly commented on how it demonstrated a wider bias than your own, and then added your rationale was clearly tailored to reward the relationship you already liked.
And pushing the Dance scene as romance is not nonsense. Toriyama does it.

https://www.famitsu.com/news/202004/13196429.html

"The English song title for the dance battle at Toriyama Mitsubee no Yakata wanted to make the romantic feelings of the two people gradually rise with a sexy image, but it was difficult for my vocabulary, so I proposed to the localization team. I received it and chose one close to the image among them. I think it was a cool title for Japanese people. "
Rough but you get the idea.

Yeah. I didn't read any of this ?? but keep screeching into the void.

 

[Master Bates]

So, I went to sleep and there were like five pages to this thread. Is this what an active LTD thread looks like?



I want to take this opportunity to remind everyone that YUFFIE KISSED CLOUD FIRST in 1997, and she also slapped his awkward ass five seconds later god bless her

There you go, please resume the actual discussion, I go back to work

Irrelevant. That is from the OG. This thread is Remake only. In this thread, that privilege is optionally reserved for Jessie alone.

 

[Enthralled]

Yeah. I didn't read any of this ?? but keep screeching into the void.

Anyway, Toriyama ascribes romantic undertones to the dance battle so that counts. Red Dress counts. Them trying to save Tifa, which was Aerith's insistence, doesn't magically change this. That's silly. It's just some personal rationale you can't convince anyone is the game's internal logic as well.
https://www.famitsu.com/news/202004/13196429.html