SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Graymouse]

I think it's pretty clear what I said: nobody should pretend the game is operating under your standards. And I found your standards really tortured.


Story is still mostly about Aerith. It would depend greatly on if they hold to "equal time" for the next part like they did for this one. Maybe they will but you could also argue they wanted to make their first installment about managing their brand.


Excellent we agree. I mean I mostly commented on how it demonstrated a wider bias than your own, and then added your rationale was clearly tailored to reward the relationship you already liked.
And pushing the Dance scene as romance is not nonsense. Toriyama does it.

https://www.famitsu.com/news/202004/13196429.html

"The English song title for the dance battle at Toriyama Mitsubee no Yakata wanted to make the romantic feelings of the two people gradually rise with a sexy image, but it was difficult for my vocabulary, so I proposed to the localization team. I received it and chose one close to the image among them. I think it was a cool title for Japanese people. "
Rough but you get the idea.

So question? Are you sure he isn't talking about Andrea? Is Aerith's name mentioned? No, she is not. So your point is invaild. Thank you. Try again. You are the one who is pushing your point of view. Why do you assume that it is Aerith who he talking about?

Besides he is talking about the music track in that part of that game, not the characters. Again, Cloud was not dancing for Aerith! It was not romantic at all!

 

[Scot-88]

Anyway, Toriyama ascribes romantic undertones to the dance battle so that counts. Red Dress counts. Them trying to save Tifa, which was Aerith's insistence, doesn't magically change this. That's silly. It's just some personal rationale you can't convince anyone is the game's internal logic as well.
https://www.famitsu.com/news/202004/13196429.html

Screeeeeeeeech ?? honestly. To quote a wise man, "get help".

 

[Enthralled]

So question? Are you sure he isn't talking about Andrea? Is Aerith's name mentioned? No, she is not. So your point is invaild. Thank you. Try again. You are the one who is pushing your point of view. Why do you assume that it is Aerith who he talking about?

Besides he is talking about the music track in the part of that game, not the characters.

Cloud has romantic feelings for Andrea? Isn't this desperate gambit kinda begging the question?

Screeeeeeeeech ?? honestly. To quote a wise man, "get help".

Argued for pages and pages but now... no?

Apparently saying Cloud's character development is made obvious with the high-five motif is a laughable statement here (when it's clearly set-up for some purpose) but someone arguing music isn't meant to inform a scene is not? Granted that did only just happen.

 

[a_apple]

Anyway, Toriyama ascribes romantic undertones to the dance battle so that counts. Red Dress counts. Them trying to save Tifa, which was Aerith's insistence, doesn't magically change this. That's silly. It's just some personal rationale you can't convince anyone is the game's internal logic as well.
https://www.famitsu.com/news/202004/13196429.html

I think you are reading a bit too much into that interview

 

[Scot-88]

Cloud has romantic feelings for Andrea? Isn't this desperate gambit kinda begging the question?


Argued for pages and pages but now... no?

Apparently saying Cloud's character development is made obvious with the high-five motif is a laughable statement here (when it's clearly set-up for some purpose) but someone arguing music isn't meant to inform a scene is not? Granted that did only just happen.

Embarrassing yourself now ?

 

[Graymouse]

Cloud has romantic feelings for Andrea? Isn't this desperate gambit kinda begging the question?


Argued for pages and pages but now... no?

Apparently saying Cloud's character development is made obvious with the high-five motif is a laughable statement here (when it's clearly set-up for some purpose) but someone arguing music isn't meant to inform a scene is not? Granted that did only just happen.

Look, all I am saying is that Aerith name is not once mentioned in that whole article. Just because he said that the music in the part of the game has romantic under tones it doesn't mean it was directed at the characters. It does not automatically get directed to person you want it to be. Sorry.

 

[Enthralled]

I think you are reading a bit too much into that interview

Does it not fit? It's a scene Aerith contrived to happen from the start and pushed Cloud to follow through with. It mirrors his own "starstruck" reaction to her all dolled up. Seems like it's just expounding the obvious.

I feel like you could accuse many, many people of overinterpreting something before you got to me with this.

 

[Graymouse]

I think it's pretty clear what I said: nobody should pretend the game is operating under your standards. And I found your standards really tortured.


Story is still mostly about Aerith. It would depend greatly on if they hold to "equal time" for the next part like they did for this one. Maybe they will but you could also argue they wanted to make their first installment about managing their brand.


Excellent we agree. I mean I mostly commented on how it demonstrated a wider bias than your own, and then added your rationale was clearly tailored to reward the relationship you already liked.
And pushing the Dance scene as romance is not nonsense. Toriyama does it.

https://www.famitsu.com/news/202004/13196429.html

"The English song title for the dance battle at Toriyama Mitsubee no Yakata wanted to make the romantic feelings of the two people gradually rise with a sexy image, but it was difficult for my vocabulary, so I proposed to the localization team. I received it and chose one close to the image among them. I think it was a cool title for Japanese people. "
Rough but you get the idea.

And yet you have your own wider bias as well.

 

[Enthralled]

Look, all I am saying is that Aerith name is not once mentioned in that whole article. Just because he said that the music in the part of the game has romantic under tones it doesn't mean it was directed at the characters. It does not automatically get directed to person you want it to be. Sorry.

You think an article must mention someone by name in a scene where this happens?

 

[Enthralled]

And yet you have your own wider bias as well.

Notice you don't see me arguing shippy moments with Tifa aren't real because they don't do anything for me. Much less try to rationalize it.

 

[Graymouse]

Does it not fit? It's a scene Aerith contrived to happen from the start and pushed Cloud to follow through with. It mirrors his own "starstruck" reaction to her all dolled up. Seems like it's just expounding the obvious.

I feel like you could accuse many, many people of overinterpreting something before you got to me with this.

Ok, Aerith did not contrive the whole dance thing just because she had feelings for Cloud. If anything she knew that would be the only way for CLoud to get inside the Don mansion. This is the same as the OG. Again, I will pound this home Cloud did not dance for Aerith! Aerith was in the audience. That is all there is to the scene. Nothing more, Nothing less.

 

[Graymouse]

Notice you don't see me arguing shippy moments with Tifa aren't real because they don't do anything for me. Much less try to rationalize it.

It is not a ship moment! I don't understand why you can't see that.

Again, the reason Cloud did that was to save Tifa. Can we at least agree to that.

 

[a_apple]

Does it not fit? It's a scene Aerith contrived to happen from the start and pushed Cloud to follow through with. It mirrors his own "starstruck" reaction to her all dolled up. Seems like it's just expounding the obvious.

I feel like you could accuse many, many people of overinterpreting something before you got to me with this.

Sounds to me like they are just talking about the track if I'm honest here

 

[Graymouse]

Sounds to me like they are just talking about the track if I'm honest here

Yes finally! someone gets it!

 

[Enthralled]

Ok, Aerith did not contrive the whole dance thing just because she had feelings for Cloud. If anything she knew that would be the only way for CLoud to get inside the Don mansion. This is the same as the OG. Again, I will pound this home Cloud did not dance for Aerith! Aerith was in the audience. That is all there is to the scene. Nothing more, Nothing less.

The question was actually about Cloud's motivation in that scene and how the ultimate goal of helping Tifa does not mean Aerith isn't the one who gets him to dance. And was gonna leave until he saw Aerith there. Anything read beyond that is conjecture about his mind in the moment. All we are shown is Aerith changes him in that moment to do something he was deciding against.

Yes finally! someone gets it!

Sounds to me like they are just talking about the track if I'm honest here

Tracks are just random noise, not meant to be evocative or informative about a scene at all? For fans of a series lauded for its music...

 

[Graymouse]

Notice you don't see me arguing shippy moments with Tifa aren't real because they don't do anything for me. Much less try to rationalize it.

Funny thing is you are so delusional with this moment in the game that you can't see past your own nose. That is the real tragedy here and yet you are doing the exact thing that you claim that I am doing.

 

[Graymouse]

The question was actually about Cloud's motivation in that scene and how the ultimate goal of helping Tifa does not mean Aerith isn't the one who gets him to dance. And was gonna leave until he saw Aerith there. Anything read beyond that is conjecture about his mind in the moment. All we are shown is Aerith changes him in that moment to do something he was deciding against.



Tracks are just random noise, not meant to be evocative or informative about a scene at all? For fans of a series lauded for its music...

Wow, just Wow. We have already been over this. Please go back a couple of pages. Again! Cloud did not Dance for Aerith!

 

[Enthralled]

Funny thing is you are so delusional with this moment in the game that you can't see past your own nose. That is the real tragedy here and yet you are doing the exact thing that you claim that I am doing.

I am just so delusional that I think Cloud changing his mind when seeing Aerith means something for their relationship, particularly when he then does something he refused before and was refusing just prior. The not-delusional take is Aerith was "just watching"

Wow, just Wow. We have already been over this. Please go back a couple of pages. Again! Cloud did not Dance for Aerith!

He danced to enter Corneo to get Tifa and also to accompany Aerith so he doesn't send her into the maw, he is led to dance by Aerith leading him to the Honeybee with this in mind and by Aerith cheering him on making it too difficult for him to refuse. That's a lot more Aerith than Tifa. You don't see me saying anything Cloud and Tifa do in Shinra HQ isn't about them but about Aerith just because they were there for Aerith. Nor anyone I'd imagine.

 

[Graymouse]

I am just so delusional that I think Cloud changing his mind when seeing Aerith means something for their relationship, particularly when he then does something he refused before and was refusing just prior. The not-delusional take is Aerith was "just watching"

Look, first you tried to say that the music was about Cloud and Aerith. That was proven wrong and yes I can read Japanese! You then tried to cover it up by saying a music track is just noise. Come on man, come up with an argument and stick to it. Quit moving the goal post every time you are proven wrong.

 

[Graymouse]

I am just so delusional that I think Cloud changing his mind when seeing Aerith means something for their relationship, particularly when he then does something he refused before and was refusing just prior. The not-delusional take is Aerith was "just watching"


He danced to enter Corneo to get Tifa and also to accompany Aerith so he doesn't send her into the maw, he is led to dance by Aerith leading him to the Honeybee with this in mind and by Aerith cheering him on making it too difficult for him to refuse. That's a lot more Aerith than Tifa. You don't see me saying anything Cloud and Tifa do in Shinra HQ isn't about them but about Aerith just because they were there for Aerith. Nor anyone I'd imagine.

You know why, because I agree with you that the entire focus in that chapter is about Aerith. Why would I argue that! It wouldn't make sense. However, your argument has failed on multiple occasions.

Some times I feel like I am playing 4D chess when I talk to certain Aerith shippers. Most of them are decent and I can see the chemistry between Cloud and Aerith. In this case it is not there! Honestly If anything Aeirth embarrassed the hell out of him. I wouldn't blame him if he didn't talk to her ever again. That is just me as person talking through my life experiences.

 

[Enthralled]

Look, first you tried to say that the music was about Cloud and Aerith. That was proven wrong and yes I can read Japanese! You then tried to cover it up by saying a music track is just noise. Come on man, come up with an argument and stick to it. Quit moving the goal post every time you are proven wrong.

Proven? You desperately said it could mean Andrea. Then when I said that's silly you said music is utterly disconnected from the characters for some reason. I was mocking your position by saying "music tracks are just noise" by phrasing it as a question. Clearly music is informative toward a scene, as I said a few times now.

You know why, because I agree with you that the entire focus in that chapter is about Aerith. Why would I argue that! It wouldn't make sense.

Adopting your standards consistently is nice but they're still silly.

 

[Enthralled]

Aerith is having fun and is enjoying herself, I don't think that scr
it's the honeybee scene, it was one of the most anticipate moments of the entire game, it feels just natural that the devs tell us in detail about all the work and thought process that went in there. Also The song is there to give the honeybee inn a certain feeling and atmosphere, that has more to do with the setting and not so much about which character bones who lol

You guys are putting in world class effort here but that's kinda the problem. They give the honeybee an amorous atmosphere and have a scene in it where Cloud dances because Aerith is in the audience and have Aerith get excited seeing him get dolled up but it's "delusional" to infer any romantic subtext from that? I am sorry but I think this is motivated reasoning.

 

[a_apple]

The question was actually about Cloud's motivation in that scene and how the ultimate goal of helping Tifa does not mean Aerith isn't the one who gets him to dance. And was gonna leave until he saw Aerith there. Anything read beyond that is conjecture about his mind in the moment. All we are shown is Aerith changes him in that moment to do something he was deciding against.



Tracks are just random noise, not meant to be evocative or informative about a scene at all? For fans of a series lauded for its music...

the honeybee inn scene was one of the most anticipate moments of the entire game, it feels just natural that the devs tell us in detail about all the work and thought process that went in there. Also the song is there to give the honeybee inn a certain feeling and atmosphere, that has more to do with the setting and not so much about which character bones who lol

 

[Graymouse]

Proven? You desperately said it could mean Andrea. Then when I said that's silly you said music is utterly disconnected from the characters for some reason.


Adopting your standards consistently is nice but they're still silly.

To start with it wasn't desperate. I was making a point that went well over your head. It made you look silly. Of course I know it isn't about Andrea. It is about noone! That is my point. I am sorry that you can't understand that.

 

[a_apple]

You guys are putting in world class effort here but that's kinda the problem. They give the honeybee an amorous atmosphere and have a scene in it where Cloud dances because Aerith is in the audience and have Aerith get excited seeing him get dolled up but it's "delusional" to infer any romantic subtext from that? I am sorry but I think this is motivated reasoning.

You are over thinking little things, mate