SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Pivi]

Heya Eveyrone!

I've recently finished Rebirth, and now I'm at the stage of desperately needing to talk about the game, so hopefully I've come to the right place. :-)

Disclaimer:
Possible wall of text ahead, not just only about the LTD (but I'll get there!), so feel free to ignore me if you're not in the mood of reading my ramblings.

So, who am I? I was a big fan of the OG FF7 in my childhood. I invested a lot in it's lore, the compilation and of course the LTD, I think I've even engaded in some discussion here in the past. I was a rabid Cloti supporter of the OG and I did not really liked Aerith at all. Her death didn't really hit me back, mostly because I was a kid who always preferred Tifa for Cloud, and did not really understand the big picture in context.

Now, my mindset surely have changed (for the good, hopefully). I've kinda cooled on FF7 after Advent Children. I've moved on to other games, not really following the compilation until the Remake sucked me back in. I've caught up on Crisis Core and now have just finished Rebirth, so I have an evolved liking of the story and characters. Plot twist: I adore Aerith now, but the whole cast of FF7 has grown on me much-much more as with the OG. Don't get me start on how Barrett became one of my favourites of the cast, and so on. As a grown-ass man, I teared up multiple times during my playthrough of Rebirth, both from joy and sorrow, so it really touched my soul.

My stand on the LTD and canonity as a whole:
Just to put it out of the way, I'm still Cloti and Zerith, but I see Cloud and Aerith's relationship in a new light. With the OG, I always thought they want to portray Aerith in a "new flame" role for Cloud to fuel the love triangle, but with the remake trilogy, it's very clear (for me) that it's much more of a very deep, pure care and protectiveness from Cloud then straight up romantic love. Although I think our boy has a crush on Aerith too, but that's understandable. It's nowhere as deep a romantic love as what he feels for Tifa hidden deep inside.

As for the canonity:
I'm on the opinion, that what is canon is always dictated by the most recent part of the compilation. In our example, it's the remake trilogy. So what's portrayed in these new iteration is the canon. If something is in the game, like the dates, then it's canon. There's no one date that's more canon than the others, all of the dates considered canon by me, because it's in the game. It's not fanservice (well, not ONLY fanservice), it's there to show how Cloud feels for his comrades. It doesn't matter at all, who Cloud goes on a date with, his overall feelings won't change the story.
I'm strongly on the opinion, that we, as players dictate how Cloud's soldier persona behaves. We can dictate that his crush on Aerith comes to light more, hence the two different behavior on the chapter 14 date (next time/why not). Or we can dictate that his inner feelings for Tifa resurfaces more, hence the Tifa skywheel date. It's all canon, because in the end it won't really matter. Although that kiss with Tifa gave me more joy than I want to admit, even if I think it's a little bit unneeded at that point. :-)

So, as you have guessed, I really, really love Remake and Rebirth. How they portray the characters, their relationships with each other is just pure joy to see and experience. And in my eyes, there's no LTD anymore, it's just different types of love and care, which made me love these characters a whole lot more.

Hope I didn't babble too much nonsense. :-)

 

[GamerSkull]

I don't know. You see and learn what happened to your first love :

• Bro has some kind of wind saving his ass and voila. Some petal flowers from time to time.
• Cloud ? Bro has the whole circus and fireworks. She visits his mind, give hugs, hand holding, direct help during Sephiroth fight etc.

I'm really not liking this OmniAerith if this is all true.

Likely the devs want Aerith’s closure out of the way here so they can focus more on Zerith in Part 3 now that she’s no longer with the main party.

 

[Yoru]

Likely the devs want Aerith’s closure out of the way here so they can focus more on Zerith in Part 3 now that she’s no longer with the main party.

Thing is i'm not even talking about the "love aspect" of things here.

I just find that Cloud have A LOT of help from her when Zack is kinda left alone figuring things out. And I find it really strange if the OmniAerith thing is real. You can't hide things from the viewer just because their Reunion has to wait for Part 3, because in the meantime, she just looks like kinda insensible. So it's wrong story telling imo.

In Remake it's totally understandable. She knows about Zack, but he's dead. Nothing she can't do about it. She's just grieving and thinking about him when she's around Cloud.

But with Rebirth ? We know that the "multi worlds" thingy is a thing. So OmniAerith should know it too. She may even be the reason for some of them to exist. And what do we see ? Zack being in a shitty ending world with his "dead" girlfriend and not a single help to figures things out while Cloud get ALL the help he could ask for frame 1. I don't know, I just find it rings wrong.

 

[overheat28]

I don't know. You see and learn what happened to your first love :

• Bro has some kind of wind saving his ass and voila. Some petal flowers from time to time.
• Cloud ? Bro has the whole circus and fireworks. She visits his mind, give hugs, hand holding, direct help during Sephiroth fight etc.

I'm really not liking this OmniAerith if this is all true.

Hard to escape the feeling Zack is merely a plaything in this game. This is all sounding very much like CAs having their fantasies being confirmed.

I will hold judgement until the last game, but I am no longer optimistic where this is going for Zack.

Man was better off dead and buried. At least he had dignity.

So she saves him, pushes him through hoops without the slightest hint given, meanwhile doki doki with Cloud is ever ongoing.

At the end when the puppet (nice parallel to Cloud) has fulfilled its purpose - ok time for you to die again and my ghost version will now deign to be with you.

Sorry for the negativity, but this is how I see things as they currently stand for Zack. Poor sod is still going for it, too (nice touch at the end with the reunion flower for being a good boy).

 

[JaeKony]

Heya Eveyrone!

I've recently finished Rebirth, and now I'm at the stage of desperately needing to talk about the game, so hopefully I've come to the right place. :-)

Disclaimer:
Possible wall of text ahead, not just only about the LTD (but I'll get there!), so feel free to ignore me if you're not in the mood of reading my ramblings.

So, who am I? I was a big fan of the OG FF7 in my childhood. I invested a lot in it's lore, the compilation and of course the LTD, I think I've even engaded in some discussion here in the past. I was a rabid Cloti supporter of the OG and I did not really liked Aerith at all. Her death didn't really hit me back, mostly because I was a kid who always preferred Tifa for Cloud, and did not really understand the big picture in context.

Now, my mindset surely have changed (for the good, hopefully). I've kinda cooled on FF7 after Advent Children. I've moved on to other games, not really following the compilation until the Remake sucked me back in. I've caught up on Crisis Core and now have just finished Rebirth, so I have an evolved liking of the story and characters. Plot twist: I adore Aerith now, but the whole cast of FF7 has grown on me much-much more as with the OG. Don't get me start on how Barrett became one of my favourites of the cast, and so on. As a grown-ass man, I teared up multiple times during my playthrough of Rebirth, both from joy and sorrow, so it really touched my soul.

My stand on the LTD and canonity as a whole:
Just to put it out of the way, I'm still Cloti and Zerith, but I see Cloud and Aerith's relationship in a new light. With the OG, I always thought they want to portray Aerith in a "new flame" role for Cloud to fuel the love triangle, but with the remake trilogy, it's very clear (for me) that it's much more of a very deep, pure care and protectiveness from Cloud then straight up romantic love. Although I think our boy has a crush on Aerith too, but that's understandable. It's nowhere as deep a romantic love as what he feels for Tifa hidden deep inside.

As for the canonity:
I'm on the opinion, that what is canon is always dictated by the most recent part of the compilation. In our example, it's the remake trilogy. So what's portrayed in these new iteration is the canon. If something is in the game, like the dates, then it's canon. There's no one date that's more canon than the others, all of the dates considered canon by me, because it's in the game. It's not fanservice (well, not ONLY fanservice), it's there to show how Cloud feels for his comrades. It doesn't matter at all, who Cloud goes on a date with, his overall feelings won't change the story.
I'm strongly on the opinion, that we, as players dictate how Cloud's soldier persona behaves. We can dictate that his crush on Aerith comes to light more, hence the two different behavior on the chapter 14 date (next time/why not). Or we can dictate that his inner feelings for Tifa resurfaces more, hence the Tifa skywheel date. It's all canon, because in the end it won't really matter. Although that kiss with Tifa gave me more joy than I want to admit, even if I think it's a little bit unneeded at that point. :-)

So, as you have guessed, I really, really love Remake and Rebirth. How they portray the characters, their relationships with each other is just pure joy to see and experience. And in my eyes, there's no LTD anymore, it's just different types of love and care, which made me love these characters a whole lot more.

Hope I didn't babble too much nonsense. :-)

Welcome to the forum!
Hope you can find some like-minded individuals here that can help contribute to a different or deeper understanding of FF7 as a whole.

 

[Sacky]

Heya Eveyrone!

I've recently finished Rebirth, and now I'm at the stage of desperately needing to talk about the game, so hopefully I've come to the right place. :-)

Disclaimer:
Possible wall of text ahead, not just only about the LTD (but I'll get there!), so feel free to ignore me if you're not in the mood of reading my ramblings.

So, who am I? I was a big fan of the OG FF7 in my childhood. I invested a lot in it's lore, the compilation and of course the LTD, I think I've even engaded in some discussion here in the past. I was a rabid Cloti supporter of the OG and I did not really liked Aerith at all. Her death didn't really hit me back, mostly because I was a kid who always preferred Tifa for Cloud, and did not really understand the big picture in context.

Now, my mindset surely have changed (for the good, hopefully). I've kinda cooled on FF7 after Advent Children. I've moved on to other games, not really following the compilation until the Remake sucked me back in. I've caught up on Crisis Core and now have just finished Rebirth, so I have an evolved liking of the story and characters. Plot twist: I adore Aerith now, but the whole cast of FF7 has grown on me much-much more as with the OG. Don't get me start on how Barrett became one of my favourites of the cast, and so on. As a grown-ass man, I teared up multiple times during my playthrough of Rebirth, both from joy and sorrow, so it really touched my soul.

My stand on the LTD and canonity as a whole:
Just to put it out of the way, I'm still Cloti and Zerith, but I see Cloud and Aerith's relationship in a new light. With the OG, I always thought they want to portray Aerith in a "new flame" role for Cloud to fuel the love triangle, but with the remake trilogy, it's very clear (for me) that it's much more of a very deep, pure care and protectiveness from Cloud then straight up romantic love. Although I think our boy has a crush on Aerith too, but that's understandable. It's nowhere as deep a romantic love as what he feels for Tifa hidden deep inside.

As for the canonity:
I'm on the opinion, that what is canon is always dictated by the most recent part of the compilation. In our example, it's the remake trilogy. So what's portrayed in these new iteration is the canon. If something is in the game, like the dates, then it's canon. There's no one date that's more canon than the others, all of the dates considered canon by me, because it's in the game. It's not fanservice (well, not ONLY fanservice), it's there to show how Cloud feels for his comrades. It doesn't matter at all, who Cloud goes on a date with, his overall feelings won't change the story.
I'm strongly on the opinion, that we, as players dictate how Cloud's soldier persona behaves. We can dictate that his crush on Aerith comes to light more, hence the two different behavior on the chapter 14 date (next time/why not). Or we can dictate that his inner feelings for Tifa resurfaces more, hence the Tifa skywheel date. It's all canon, because in the end it won't really matter. Although that kiss with Tifa gave me more joy than I want to admit, even if I think it's a little bit unneeded at that point. :-)

So, as you have guessed, I really, really love Remake and Rebirth. How they portray the characters, their relationships with each other is just pure joy to see and experience. And in my eyes, there's no LTD anymore, it's just different types of love and care, which made me love these characters a whole lot more.

Hope I didn't babble too much nonsense. :-)

Welcome I suggest going back and reading what everyone has said in previous pages since the release of Rebirth there's been a lot of discussion you might enjoy

 

[Yoru]

Heya Eveyrone!

I've recently finished Rebirth, and now I'm at the stage of desperately needing to talk about the game, so hopefully I've come to the right place. :-)

Disclaimer:
Possible wall of text ahead, not just only about the LTD (but I'll get there!), so feel free to ignore me if you're not in the mood of reading my ramblings.

So, who am I? I was a big fan of the OG FF7 in my childhood. I invested a lot in it's lore, the compilation and of course the LTD, I think I've even engaded in some discussion here in the past. I was a rabid Cloti supporter of the OG and I did not really liked Aerith at all. Her death didn't really hit me back, mostly because I was a kid who always preferred Tifa for Cloud, and did not really understand the big picture in context.

Now, my mindset surely have changed (for the good, hopefully). I've kinda cooled on FF7 after Advent Children. I've moved on to other games, not really following the compilation until the Remake sucked me back in. I've caught up on Crisis Core and now have just finished Rebirth, so I have an evolved liking of the story and characters. Plot twist: I adore Aerith now, but the whole cast of FF7 has grown on me much-much more as with the OG. Don't get me start on how Barrett became one of my favourites of the cast, and so on. As a grown-ass man, I teared up multiple times during my playthrough of Rebirth, both from joy and sorrow, so it really touched my soul.

My stand on the LTD and canonity as a whole:
Just to put it out of the way, I'm still Cloti and Zerith, but I see Cloud and Aerith's relationship in a new light. With the OG, I always thought they want to portray Aerith in a "new flame" role for Cloud to fuel the love triangle, but with the remake trilogy, it's very clear (for me) that it's much more of a very deep, pure care and protectiveness from Cloud then straight up romantic love. Although I think our boy has a crush on Aerith too, but that's understandable. It's nowhere as deep a romantic love as what he feels for Tifa hidden deep inside.

As for the canonity:
I'm on the opinion, that what is canon is always dictated by the most recent part of the compilation. In our example, it's the remake trilogy. So what's portrayed in these new iteration is the canon. If something is in the game, like the dates, then it's canon. There's no one date that's more canon than the others, all of the dates considered canon by me, because it's in the game. It's not fanservice (well, not ONLY fanservice), it's there to show how Cloud feels for his comrades. It doesn't matter at all, who Cloud goes on a date with, his overall feelings won't change the story.
I'm strongly on the opinion, that we, as players dictate how Cloud's soldier persona behaves. We can dictate that his crush on Aerith comes to light more, hence the two different behavior on the chapter 14 date (next time/why not). Or we can dictate that his inner feelings for Tifa resurfaces more, hence the Tifa skywheel date. It's all canon, because in the end it won't really matter. Although that kiss with Tifa gave me more joy than I want to admit, even if I think it's a little bit unneeded at that point. :-)

So, as you have guessed, I really, really love Remake and Rebirth. How they portray the characters, their relationships with each other is just pure joy to see and experience. And in my eyes, there's no LTD anymore, it's just different types of love and care, which made me love these characters a whole lot more.

Hope I didn't babble too much nonsense. :-)

Welcome welcome !

It's my "theory" too regarding the LTD. With the Re-trilogy they can deepen the characters we love and they choose a new love path for Cloud and Aerith. It's not a romantic one. It's something of their own. He's her protector first and foremost. I know not everyone would agree but I really think Cloud doesn't have this crush feeling in the Re-trilogy to be honest. Aerith is totally falling for him don't get me wrong. But I really think the game is telling us from start to finsh it's not reciprocal. He doesn't view her like that. He legit is the one putting up boundaries.

But yes, he cares a lot about her. They share the same inner loneliness and can bring the best of them when playing around.

 

[GamerSkull]

Heya Eveyrone!

I've recently finished Rebirth, and now I'm at the stage of desperately needing to talk about the game, so hopefully I've come to the right place. :-)

Disclaimer:
Possible wall of text ahead, not just only about the LTD (but I'll get there!), so feel free to ignore me if you're not in the mood of reading my ramblings.

So, who am I? I was a big fan of the OG FF7 in my childhood. I invested a lot in it's lore, the compilation and of course the LTD, I think I've even engaded in some discussion here in the past. I was a rabid Cloti supporter of the OG and I did not really liked Aerith at all. Her death didn't really hit me back, mostly because I was a kid who always preferred Tifa for Cloud, and did not really understand the big picture in context.

Now, my mindset surely have changed (for the good, hopefully). I've kinda cooled on FF7 after Advent Children. I've moved on to other games, not really following the compilation until the Remake sucked me back in. I've caught up on Crisis Core and now have just finished Rebirth, so I have an evolved liking of the story and characters. Plot twist: I adore Aerith now, but the whole cast of FF7 has grown on me much-much more as with the OG. Don't get me start on how Barrett became one of my favourites of the cast, and so on. As a grown-ass man, I teared up multiple times during my playthrough of Rebirth, both from joy and sorrow, so it really touched my soul.

My stand on the LTD and canonity as a whole:
Just to put it out of the way, I'm still Cloti and Zerith, but I see Cloud and Aerith's relationship in a new light. With the OG, I always thought they want to portray Aerith in a "new flame" role for Cloud to fuel the love triangle, but with the remake trilogy, it's very clear (for me) that it's much more of a very deep, pure care and protectiveness from Cloud then straight up romantic love. Although I think our boy has a crush on Aerith too, but that's understandable. It's nowhere as deep a romantic love as what he feels for Tifa hidden deep inside.

As for the canonity:
I'm on the opinion, that what is canon is always dictated by the most recent part of the compilation. In our example, it's the remake trilogy. So what's portrayed in these new iteration is the canon. If something is in the game, like the dates, then it's canon. There's no one date that's more canon than the others, all of the dates considered canon by me, because it's in the game. It's not fanservice (well, not ONLY fanservice), it's there to show how Cloud feels for his comrades. It doesn't matter at all, who Cloud goes on a date with, his overall feelings won't change the story.
I'm strongly on the opinion, that we, as players dictate how Cloud's soldier persona behaves. We can dictate that his crush on Aerith comes to light more, hence the two different behavior on the chapter 14 date (next time/why not). Or we can dictate that his inner feelings for Tifa resurfaces more, hence the Tifa skywheel date. It's all canon, because in the end it won't really matter. Although that kiss with Tifa gave me more joy than I want to admit, even if I think it's a little bit unneeded at that point. :-)

So, as you have guessed, I really, really love Remake and Rebirth. How they portray the characters, their relationships with each other is just pure joy to see and experience. And in my eyes, there's no LTD anymore, it's just different types of love and care, which made me love these characters a whole lot more.

Hope I didn't babble too much nonsense. :-)

Welcome! I basically agree with everything you said.

 

[abzy1200]

Those 2 characters being in the roles they are make this whole thing abundantly clear, yet people somehow ignore it. I just don't get what they expect for these 2 characters otherwise.

Something I never got was how Cleriths think that when Aerith/Tifa were split into two characters that it was a completely uneven split of roles in the narrative, that one heroine got SO much more than the other when that is just ludicrous to believe. I doubt the devs split them into two characters to make it 95:5, because going with the Clerith view of Final Fantasy 7:

Aerith is:

-The last of her kind, descendant of the Ancients.
-The kind of girl who, even though you've been pining for a woman your whole life, and you vowed to become a "special existence" to her, you fall out of love with said woman in favor of Aerith in only a matter of days.
-Mother/guardian of the planet
-The main heroine of Final Fantasy 7, Tifa is not important at all, and in fact could be removed from the story and nothing would change.
-The person who is soulmates with the main character, because even in death Cloud's love for her never falters, and that she lives on in his heart romantically forever, and that he lives the rest of his life miserably raising children with Tifa, putting up a nice guy facade because he can't break the news to Tifa that he loves another, only awaiting death so he can reunite with Aerith. (Great message to send to a target demographic of teenagers btw!)
-The kind of girl who can see everyones true colours, and has the emotional intelligence to instantly click with anyone and everyone.
-Just an all-around flawless person, much better than that whore who was only made to please men.

and Tifa is:

-A character made solely for fanservice, made only for men to gawk at.
-Just a bartender who knows martial arts who, alongside her group of friends, purposefully mentally scarred Cloud as a child, and continues to pull him deeper into the depths of depression during the rest of the compilation with her all of her lying, obliviousness, jealousy, and clinginess. She doesn't understand Cloud or his feelings at all, not in the slightest. Tifa could never be there for him in the way that Aerith could.
-The only person who could save Cloud from his mental anguish (only as friends, of course, not because Cloud would only come out of his head after Tifa, the woman who he vowed to become a "special existence" to, accepts him for who he is, no, only because she grew up with him, no other reason. It's not like Tifa's role is to be the heroine of the sub-plot in bittersweet irony because Cloud wanted to be loved and accepted by her, right?)
-Projected her desire to have a hero save her onto Cloud, and never matured past that immature fantasy made by a 13 year old.

After typing this it definitely feels like venting/ranting, and due to that I've probably left stuff out that I can't think of at the minute (both good and bad attributes given to each character by Cleriths), but I'm just so tired of people seeing the story this way! That Aerith is the only character who ever mattered in the story besides Cloud and Sephiroth, that Tifa isn't more important to making Final Fantasy 7 a gripping emotional tale than Aerith is. Sure, Aerith and her death is impactful, and represents the games themes aswell, but it's only because Tifa exists in the narrative that Cloud can represent most of the emotional conflict found in the game, because if your main character is some bland hero in a fairytale romance, you might as well give up on making it a good story before you even start writing it.

The belief that the developers split the two characters only to spit in the face of Tifa, despite them claiming she is a heroine in the game, is simply not a viable view of this game, its characters, or of the developers who made them in the first place.

Again, really sorry for the rant and or any inaccuracies I made.

Heya Eveyrone!

I've recently finished Rebirth, and now I'm at the stage of desperately needing to talk about the game, so hopefully I've come to the right place. :-)

I don't know if it's my place to say this since I've only been here for about a week, but welcome back!

 

[GamerSkull]

Thing is i'm not even talking about the "love aspect" of things here.

I just find that Cloud have A LOT of help from her when Zack is kinda left alone figuring things out. And I find it really strange if the OmniAerith thing is real. You can't hide things from the viewer just because their Reunion has to wait for Part 3, because in the meantime, she just looks like kinda insensible. So it's wrong story telling imo.

In Remake it's totally understandable. She knows about Zack, but he's dead. Nothing she can't do about it. She's just grieving and thinking about him when she's around Cloud.

But with Rebirth ? We know that the "multi worlds" thingy is a thing. So OmniAerith should know it too. She may even be the reason for some of them to exist. And what do we see ? Zack being in a shitty ending world with his "dead" girlfriend and not a single help to figures things out while Cloud get ALL the help he could ask for frame 1. I don't know, I just find it rings wrong.

I do agree that Zack should be getting more help from her. The optimist in me is saying they didn’t do this because they didn’t want the spotlight to be taken away from Cloud and Aerith who will have their last genuine interaction in this game. And they’ll be able to focus on the Zack side of things in Part 3 without having to worry about Cloud and Aerith anymore. Aside from his acceptance that she is gone.

 

[nepheneethedestroyer]

Really? Huh.

Then there has to be some alternative explanation for the line to be there because it really does stand out. Aerith's personality isn't one to be bothered by such things in the first place. She seemed fine when she saw the flower but with future memories gone maybe the context is gone for her. Maybe Aerith found out Cloud gave the flower without saying where it's from? But I don't think that would upset her that much either.

I still think it's supposed to juxtapose what we already know it can't just be there for no reason so maybe since she got her memories of Cloud and Tifa in the future taken away so she thinks in the moment that Cloud is being unthoughtful? Basically the stuff she knew in Remake is why she was acting differently then.

But she did giggle before about oooo who did you give it to? So maybe him not being forthcoming about the flower's origin to Tifa or in general "hmm I thought you didn't like lying" is what has her react that way. And give him advice.

I'm necroing old replies again because I'm slow

I think overall her tone in the JP is a little softer and more teasing? It goes more like this:

Aerith: I saw that flower at Seventh Heaven. Though, I'm sure it was Tifa who put it there.
Cloud: Hmm. I don't remember / I'm not sure who did (さぁ、どうだったかな)
Aerith: Taking a gift from one woman and regifting it to another? I don't know about that...
Cloud: Yeah...
Aerith: Keep it in mind for the future.

I perceived it as Cloud "pretending" to not know who put the flower up / trying to act aloof and cool (at least what he thinks is aloof and cool) and Aerith gently ribbing him back for it. She also doesn't say "next time" with the implication of her doing any gift-giving. IDK. Listening to it in English does seem out of character.

The scene in Remake where she gives him the flower is also the first scene where the Whispers appear. So maybe her specific mindset in that moment in Remake, where she has her "memories" of the future, she had a "pro-Tifa" agenda for the flower. But when the Whispers take her memories of the future, that also retroactively adjusts her recall of her mindset in that moment? Because outside of general female friendship reasons, without her future-knowledge, I don't think she would be specifically rooting for Cloud and Tifa to reach an understanding.

 

[shady]

Heya Eveyrone!

I've recently finished Rebirth, and now I'm at the stage of desperately needing to talk about the game, so hopefully I've come to the right place. :-)

Disclaimer:
Possible wall of text ahead, not just only about the LTD (but I'll get there!), so feel free to ignore me if you're not in the mood of reading my ramblings.

So, who am I? I was a big fan of the OG FF7 in my childhood. I invested a lot in it's lore, the compilation and of course the LTD, I think I've even engaded in some discussion here in the past. I was a rabid Cloti supporter of the OG and I did not really liked Aerith at all. Her death didn't really hit me back, mostly because I was a kid who always preferred Tifa for Cloud, and did not really understand the big picture in context.

Now, my mindset surely have changed (for the good, hopefully). I've kinda cooled on FF7 after Advent Children. I've moved on to other games, not really following the compilation until the Remake sucked me back in. I've caught up on Crisis Core and now have just finished Rebirth, so I have an evolved liking of the story and characters. Plot twist: I adore Aerith now, but the whole cast of FF7 has grown on me much-much more as with the OG. Don't get me start on how Barrett became one of my favourites of the cast, and so on. As a grown-ass man, I teared up multiple times during my playthrough of Rebirth, both from joy and sorrow, so it really touched my soul.

My stand on the LTD and canonity as a whole:
Just to put it out of the way, I'm still Cloti and Zerith, but I see Cloud and Aerith's relationship in a new light. With the OG, I always thought they want to portray Aerith in a "new flame" role for Cloud to fuel the love triangle, but with the remake trilogy, it's very clear (for me) that it's much more of a very deep, pure care and protectiveness from Cloud then straight up romantic love. Although I think our boy has a crush on Aerith too, but that's understandable. It's nowhere as deep a romantic love as what he feels for Tifa hidden deep inside.

As for the canonity:
I'm on the opinion, that what is canon is always dictated by the most recent part of the compilation. In our example, it's the remake trilogy. So what's portrayed in these new iteration is the canon. If something is in the game, like the dates, then it's canon. There's no one date that's more canon than the others, all of the dates considered canon by me, because it's in the game. It's not fanservice (well, not ONLY fanservice), it's there to show how Cloud feels for his comrades. It doesn't matter at all, who Cloud goes on a date with, his overall feelings won't change the story.
I'm strongly on the opinion, that we, as players dictate how Cloud's soldier persona behaves. We can dictate that his crush on Aerith comes to light more, hence the two different behavior on the chapter 14 date (next time/why not). Or we can dictate that his inner feelings for Tifa resurfaces more, hence the Tifa skywheel date. It's all canon, because in the end it won't really matter. Although that kiss with Tifa gave me more joy than I want to admit, even if I think it's a little bit unneeded at that point. :-)

So, as you have guessed, I really, really love Remake and Rebirth. How they portray the characters, their relationships with each other is just pure joy to see and experience. And in my eyes, there's no LTD anymore, it's just different types of love and care, which made me love these characters a whole lot more.

Hope I didn't babble too much nonsense. :-)

Welcome!

I agree with what you said, I think it's beautiful we get to see the whole team bonding and creating unforgettable friendships and memories togerther, and especially how Cloud's relationship changes with each one of them as time goes on.

You're right, I think Cloud has a unique dynamic with every single member, and the unique dynamic he shares with Aerith is different than his unique dynamic with Tifa, that doesn't invalidate it or make it less special in any way, it's just different. It's nice to see Cloud caring in his own little way which makes the ending even more of a gut punch for him, the party, and the player because you see these relationships grow and blossom.

I obviously too believe Cloud loves Aerith, but he is in love with Tifa. He also loves the rest of the party members in various different ways, and it's a shame we cannot have people who just love and cherish each other without the need for every interaction or moment to be romantic. Cody said it best, unfortunately hardcore shippers have ruined what is essentially great character development, characters are allowed to love and be close to other people, regardless of gender or orientation, without the need to romanticise or sexualise said relationship and everybody who plays this game needs to remember that.

Unfortunately people cannot seperate the different distinctions and we end up where we've ended up. Regardless, looking forward to even more clarification in Part 3!

 

[GamerSkull]

Looks like there are people on Twitter accusing Shinra Archeology Department of being the same people who run TLS, who are “toxic Clotis”.

God, this is…. really something.

 

[Yoru]

I doubt the devs split them into two characters to make it 95:5

Wanna know a funny thing ? It's actually true characters were not even. Actually it's Tifa who had too many spotligth compared to Aerith and they had to boost her in the beginning of the game to make things a bit more fair. Devs itw from the 10 year Ultimania anniversary.

So yup, another Extreme Clerith argument in the mudd.

But when the Whispers take her memories of the future, that also retroactively adjusts her recall of her mindset in that moment? Because outside of general female friendship reasons, without her future-knowledge, I don't think she would be specifically rooting for Cloud and Tifa to reach an understanding.

I'm not really on board with this "Aerith can be a bit dishonest because of the whispers you know" because she remembers that she gave the flower. So she remembers what she said to Cloud : "Take this flower, you can give it to your girlfriend" It can totally be a seller speech and Cloud did just what she told him to. So it's really strange to be angry at him about it. I still think it was not a good character writing.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

I've seen

• Zack and Tifa can end up with each other because Tifa is too depressive for Cloud and Zack is too high energy for Aerith

Have... have the people saying this actually met any of these characters? This is such a a wildly wrong take. Like if they were trying an opposites attract, put the introverts and extroverts together argument it'd be wrong but THIS is just straight lies.

• Tifa is a person better off alone because its a good story for her to learn to be strong and independent

Someone has stayed willfully ignorant of ToTP, in which Tifa shows just how independent and strong she already is. Also missed the bit where she may want a knight in shining armor to rescue her, but she keeps rescuing him back

• Tifa can have Cloud in one timeline and Aerith can have one in another

M-m-mmmorty, c'mere Morty. We have t-to k-kill the burp LTD Morty. It's gonna fuck with soooo many people Morty. We're just gonna, we're gonna get Cloud Strife laid Morty. More than one of him, Morty! We'll toss one at the... At the one with the big breasts! And find another one for the pink girl with the weird name Morty! I pity that one Morty, th-that Cloud's never gonna recover. And the girl we're throwing him at isn't even a bartender Morty. It's a real shame Morty but it's gotta be done Morty!

 

[nepheneethedestroyer]

You’d know who’d be better for Cloud?

Cissnei.

Why? No clue. I just want him out of the way for Aerti.

My true actual shipping take is that all three should dispense of their comphet delusions and become a cottagecore lesbian throuple in Gongaga.

That's where I really hope they did a big brainstorming for this multi worlds and Future Aerith stuff. Because if the OmniAerith is a real thing... man I think i'm losing a bit of respect here. Being all-knowing about what happened to Zack and still going to this goodbye Date with Cloud and doing all this "like and liking" stuff is kinda messed up imo.

Spoiler: Rebirth spoilers

Omni-Aerith has sort of taken away a lot of the specific charm I felt towards the character from OG I find it especially strange that Omni-Aerith and Zack have ZERO interaction. Like she should be telling him stuff! I don't know.

This is exactly what gives me pause about the Omni-Aerith theory.

If it was Omni-Aerith in the sector 5 dream date and it's true that she altered events to save Zack and knows everything that's been happening, the implications are chilling.

Zack is reduced to a simple chess piece with this theory, sacrificial knight if you will. Does she even care? As long as the queen piece Cloud can be kept in play for as long as possible...

Man wtf.

One of the weird things about the ending sequence...

Spoiler: Rebirth ending spoilers

The importance of self-identity is a big theme in FF7 in general...we see how Sephiroth being able to come to terms with his true identity causes him to lose his mind and become what he becomes, functionally. Cloud's whole journey is about recovering his true self, and coming to terms with the discrepancy between what he wanted to become/what he thought he was and what he actually was. Cloud becomes "possessed" by Sephiroth in Ch 9 and specifically starts to adopt Sephiroth's stance, his phrases, his mannerisms (the bullet dodge)...obviously, the sequence where Tifa falls in is framed identically to Sephiroth slashing Tifa at the Nibelheim Incident. Obviously, this sequence where Sephiroth's identity has "overtaken" Cloud's is framed negatively.

So does anyone else find it weird that in the final fights, we see a couple instances of Cloud exhibiting this specific behavior but with Zack instead? In the final Aerith + Cloud fight we see Cloud specifically adopt Zack's sword stance, and he repeats the same words/pose about a SOLDIER's honor and stuff with the Zack/Cloud fight. It's been too long since I replayed CC (maybe that's a sign I should play Reunion) but was this not weird to anyone else? Like, Cloud is really not a SOLDIER, so it's another moment that feels like it plays even harder into his delusion?

IDK what tagging policy is on Rebirth spoilers, sorry. Also sorry for double post but I don't think I can edit posts yet

 

[Yoru]

IDK what tagging policy is on Rebirth spoilers, sorry. Also sorry for double post but I don't think I can edit posts yet

It's free for all so LET'S GOOO !

And YES ! This dual SOLDIER stance is so weird and doesn't make sense. I really hope it's not just really bad fanservice because it was 50% awesome 50% cringe. Please let there be an explanation. I want to believe it's to show us Cloud is gone and in full delulu mode.

 

[Maidenofwar]

Welcome! I basically agree with everything you said.

Indeed.

Welcome to the forums Pivi!

As a multishipper with a CA bias, I enjoy the positivity that shone through your post!

 

[luminous03]

It's free for all so LET'S GOOO !

And YES ! This dual SOLDIER stance is so weird and doesn't make sense. I really hope it's not just really bad fanservice because it was 50% awesome 50% cringe. Please let there be an explanation. I want to believe it's to show us Cloud is gone and in full delulu mode.

For new fans who just got their hands on the title, it will be a nice and masterfully crafted twist. I really hope they approve the original idea of being delulu and not add some new weird shit, things were much better when they were simpler

 

[GamerSkull]

Nojima is just about done with Part 3’s script right? I dunno. I think they’re probably gonna go all in on whatever they’ve cooked up for Part 3.

 

[Yoru]

Looks like there are people on Twitter accusing Shinra Archeology Department of being the same people who run TLS, who are “toxic Clotis”.

God, this is…. really something.

I'm really wondering how these people will react when Part III drops. Like.... bro what did you expect ?

A part of me thinks they don't play the games to begin with. They just learned about this ship when younger and just went with it without looking too much at the source material.

But for the other... well... I think they're really gonna have a bad time... because if devs are really telling the truth... Part 3 is really gonna be "Toxic Clotis" material.

 

[GamerSkull]

I'm really wondering how these people will react when Part III drops. Like.... bro what did you expect ?

A part of me thinks they don't play the games to begin with. They just learn about this ship when younger and just went with it without looking too much at the source material.

But for the other... well... I think they're really gonna have a bad time... because if devs are really telling the truth... Part 3 is really gonna be "Toxic Clotis" material.

I suppose we’ll see. The fandom, for better or worse, is gonna explode with that game.

 

[nars305]

A part of me thinks they don't play the games to begin with. They just learned about this ship when younger and just went with it without looking too much at the source material.

I had this thought when I watched the GS date for Red and people were commenting what happened to his voice.

But for the other... well... I think they're really gonna have a bad time... because if devs are really telling the truth... Part 3 is really gonna be "Toxic Clotis" material.

They’ll never have a bad time because there’s always a reason why Cloud loves Aerith more. Hand holding is more romantic than a kiss, Cloud is jealous, Tifa is a prostitute, a screenshot from the 1900s…there will always be something.

It makes me wonder what if this game ends with Aerith and Zack reuniting and still loving each other? What happens then? There will even be an explanation for that somehow, like Aerith doesn’t really love Zack but she knows she can’t be with Cloud.

It doesn’t matter at all, they’ll bend the characters in any way to justify their ship.

 

[Ryeleigh]

Looks like there are people on Twitter accusing Shinra Archeology Department of being the same people who run TLS, who are “toxic Clotis”.

God, this is…. really something.

Didn't the extreme CTs call them "toxic Cleriths" a while back? Extremism really is a flat circle, lol.

 

[abzy1200]

I suppose we’ll see. The fandom, for better or worse, is gonna explode with that game.

"Devs crippled to Cloti toxicity and threats."

"Fanservice"