SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

Eerie

Fire and Blood
Looks like there are people on Twitter accusing Shinra Archeology Department of being the same people who run TLS, who are “toxic Clotis”.

God, this is…. really something.
I saw that, apparently Lex is now a "toxic cloti". Sorry @Lex you're one of us now!

@nepheneethedestroyer I actually agree about your view on the ending, Cloud should not adopt Zack's stance in fact... he's playing his delusion and getting farther away from his true self, it's what the whole ending is telling me. This is why Tifa can't reach him at all and I wonder how this will play out in the beginning of the next game.

@overheat28 let me tell you I played only the main quest with a little Tifa sidequests, and the impression I got out of the game was strongly Zerith lol. Yes, that's how it looks from where I've played, it's really interesting when you skip nearly all the sidequests. So to me the game strongly sets their reunion in p3 and honestly I think it's good that Zack knows that Aerith grew feelings for Cloud.

What I found interesting with Tifa's sidequests and overall interactions is that they ground Cloud. They give him a hold of himself; they chat about food (the ones she'll make him in the future :D), about their memories as kids. I feel very much that sense of him relying on those moments to believe that he is "Cloud of Nibelheim", that he very much needs those to continue to believe in himself.

@Stiggie I always thought SOLDIER!Cloud did waver between the two but true!Cloud had chosen Tifa and never wavered because that's what we were told but the Remake trilogy really changed that narrative for something way more clear and less messy. I believe that in the OG it did not matter since it wasn't supposed to be extended beyond the OG, but with the Compilation and especially AC/C it really became a different beast and they had to face all the bad choices they made for the OG lol.
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
I agree that the flower thing in general is strange. It’s strange in the sense that she smiles when she sees it at Tifa’s bar, so that was her first reaction. It’s also strange because he didn’t just give it to “a girl” he gave it to Tifa. Her friend…who she knows has a lot of history with Cloud…which she has to at the least know something is going on there…

It’s why I think the entire relationship web just muddies things when you look at it deeper.
I have to assume it was intended as good natured ribbing. Like she knows Cloud has feelings for Tifa and is mock chastising him for "regifting" the flower.
The more I think about it, the more I think Aerith is representing a romantic state where in order to move forward, she needs to make advances to get rejected to move on. Like, she has no intentions towards Cloud, but without shooting her shot with the man her brain keeps screaming "ZACK" about, she can't get closure from that last relationship.

I relate to you but in a different way. I love Cloud, but AC made me mad with his character for a moment. I know that he is a good character, but he put Tifa through a lot after the game events. I don’t know if it’s me being a woman or what. Tifa also was struggling with guilt and loss, and she was with Cloud from the moment she found him again up to saving his mind. But as soon as it got hard for him he left her alone and with two kids. I understand what was wrong with him, but at the same time…! At least Tifa did get to put him in his place and snap him out of it. So I came to find peace with that.
In partial defense of Cloud, he didn't run off and abandon her and the kids until he himself got the fatal wasting disease, and even then he was looking for a cure.
If I had to make an assumption, his thoughts were probably "Tifa has it hard enough taking care of Denzel and Marlene, and I am not worthy of her care, failure that I am. Couldn't save Zack or Aerith, can't save Denzel, can't even save myself. I'm just a burden like this so why be a burden on the thing that brings me happiness in this world?"

As far as Zack, I’m really hoping his part in all this is much bigger than fan service. Also, the moment him and Cloud reunite was kind of lackluster. He sees his best friend, who is a significant reason Cloud is the way he is, bad and good, but he just says Zack? Then they fight and he goes away. I guess they are in a crazy battle, but I don’t know, it was weird, I’d expect them to reunite with more time to see what is happening. There’s not even a mention anymore afterwards like, “I saw Zack” it just goes into Cloud looking uncanny with Aerith.

I’m hoping it will show him and Aerith doing their part in the lifestream to beat Sephiroth. That or Sephiroth does come for Aerith in another world, and Zack saves her.
I have to assume Zack is being kept in the pocket for something interesting in PT3.

Zack says クラウド、エアリスを-- he gets cut off, basically, but he's basically in the middle of asking Cloud to do [something] for Aerith, though the verb in his sentence gets cut off (that's what the を signifies). It's pretty clear I think that he's asking Cloud to save or take care of Aerith though.
Probably reiterating his request from the end of CC.

Cloud is a 22 year old (mentally arguably younger) man
21 years, actually. Aerith is 22. Zack is 23, Tifa is 20.

and Aerith is a gorgeous woman who is flirty and upfront, it's totally normal that he is at least a little attracted to her. FF7/Re-Trilogy doesn't feel like it's especially great with timelines or accurately charting the passage of time, so I think Cloud falling totally in love with her is a bit extreme (and that goes for Aerith as well, even if she has some Zack-related hangups) but I've never questioned that he was at least attracted to Aerith lol. Who wouldn't be :P
We do have a fairly established timeline for the first two parts of retrilogy, assuming they take place on the same dates as the OG. Remake takes place over a 3 day period starting December 9th, Rebirth takes place over the next few weeks, ending probably sometime around christmas or new year's day. This leaves Re part 3 to occur over the month of January, ending sometime in the latter 3rd of the month.

It wouldn’t be hard to believe Zack would tell Cloud to save Aerith. Marlene only told him Cloud has to wake up because if he’s not better Sephiroth will hurt her.

When he’s falling and only has three seconds, I can see him wanting to at least say that with the chance he had.
Forgot to respond to this part, yeah, I'm fairly certain this is the case.
 
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nepheneethedestroyer

Lv. 25 Adventurer
I'm not really on board with this "Aerith can be a bit dishonest because of the whispers you know" because she remembers that she gave the flower. So she remembers what she said to Cloud : "Take this flower, you can give it to your girlfriend" It can totally be a seller speech and Cloud did just what she told him to. So it's really strange to be angry at him about it. I still think it was not a good character writing.

Yeah...I'm kind of trying to find the angle that justifies it the best. I think in the other languages it just comes off pretty harsh where maybe they intended for it to be more of her gently teasing at Cloud. Regardless, I think it was a scene where that dialogue option just misses the mark of what they intended to portray, at least across the board regarding all localizations.
 

nepheneethedestroyer

Lv. 25 Adventurer
21 years, actually. Aerith is 22. Zack is 23, Tifa is 20.

Thanks for the correction, I'm not too good with the actual numbers.

We do have a fairly established timeline for the first two parts of retrilogy, assuming they take place on the same dates as the OG. Remake takes place over a 3 day period starting December 9th, Rebirth takes place over the next few weeks, ending probably sometime around christmas or new year's day. This leaves Re part 3 to occur over the month of January, ending sometime in the latter 3rd of the month.

Yeah, I guess I personally have a tough time perceiving the passage of time (in Rebirth and also the OG specifically) in the games, I know there is an actual timeline for it though. Like in the actual experience of playing the game, I didn't really get a good sense of like "chapter 9 takes place two weeks after they leave Midgar" or whatever. Though maybe that's just my attention span :P
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
I have to assume it was intended as good natured ribbing. Like she knows Cloud has feelings for Tifa and is mock chastising him for "regifting" the flower.
The more I think about it, the more I think Aerith is representing a romantic state where in order to move forward, she needs to make advances to get rejected to move on. Like, she has no intentions towards Cloud, but without shooting her shot with the man her brain keeps screaming "ZACK" about, she can't get closure from that last relationship.


In partial defense of Cloud, he didn't run off and abandon her and the kids until he himself got the fatal wasting disease, and even then he was looking for a cure.
If I had to make an assumption, his thoughts were probably "Tifa has it hard enough taking care of Denzel and Marlene, and I am not worthy of her care, failure that I am. Couldn't save Zack or Aerith, can't save Denzel, can't even save myself. I'm just a burden like this so why be a burden on the thing that brings me happiness in this world?"


I have to assume Zack is being kept in the pocket for something interesting in PT3.


Probably reiterating his request from the end of CC.


21 years, actually. Aerith is 22. Zack is 23, Tifa is 20.


We do have a fairly established timeline for the first two parts of retrilogy, assuming they take place on the same dates as the OG. Remake takes place over a 3 day period starting December 9th, Rebirth takes place over the next few weeks, ending probably sometime around christmas or new year's day. This leaves Re part 3 to occur over the month of January, ending sometime in the latter 3rd of the month.
I think there might be an extra day or two in Remake now. There’s a day in between the two reactor bombings where Tifa and Cloud run around and then later Cloud helps Jessie. In the OG, I believe they go immediately the day after bombing Mako Reactor 1.

So I think Remake actually adds one or two days to the timeline.
 

insanehobbit

Pro Adventurer
This is just splitting hairs, and it ultimately does not matter in the grand scheme of things narratively, but I am going to have to disagree about Cloud having any romantic feelings for Aerith in the ReTrilogy. I could buy the argument in the OG, and even Remake if you squint, but Rebirth has killed that notion for me entirely.

(Honestly, FFX gives you more of an opportunity to have Tidus show explicit romantic interest in Lulu/Rikku than ReTrilogy lets you have Cloud show romantic interest in Aerith. But I do think choosing those options in FFX cheapens Tidus' relationship with Yuna a bit, so I can see why they've removed the choice in Remake/Rebirth).

I have a hard time interpreting anything Cloud does for Aerith in Rebirth as romantic within the context of the entire scene/game. Take the interlocking hands on the GS date -- when I first saw the leak out of context, I thought it could be interpreted as romantic (I mean not more romantic than a kiss obviously, lmao), but within the context of the entire scene, not so much. The date starts with Aerith patting the spot next to her, and Cloud not only chooses not to sit there but actually moves even farther away from where he had originally intended to sit. He is very clearly drawing a line about where his relationship with her stands. Are we supposed to believe he suddenly falls in love with her in the span of 10 minutes after she talks about her Zack? Or is this action not perfectly in line with the actions of someone who has been shown to comfort a friend when she is in need? This is essentially the same beat as Evergreen Park in Remake, Cloud is awkward when Aerith tries to make things intimate, but opens up/comforts her when she gets sad about Zack.

As for the Ch. 14 church scene, the affection-system influenced dialogue option isn't what's important here. That's about whether Cloud wants to spend more time with Aerith -- and of course he does. (Obviously the fact that 'nakama' is even an option should be telling). It's how Cloud reacts after Aerith tells him she likes him (but isn't sure what type of like it is). As always, the moment she makes things romantic, he deflects.

But really the final nail in the coffin is the very end of Rebirth, outside of the Tiny Bronco. It's a nice callback to their first farewell in Remake (but again telling that their dynamic after 24 hrs together vs. a couple of weeks together is the same), but also the most nakama-coded goodbye possible? It's literally 'You take care of Sephiroth, and I'll take care of Meteor. Seeya later, pal.' I mean Orpheus and Eurydice this is not, lol.

I think the ReTrilogy goes out of its way to show that while Cloud loves and cherishes Aerith deeply, his feelings for her are not romantic. The devs are trying to minimize the number of people who will come away from this game viewing this relationship in a romantic light. Obviously, existing CA shippers will have moments they'll enjoy, but I'm talking about new or "neutral" fans.

With Remake, I thought it was pretty clear they were already killing the LTD dead with how many new CT moments they added and how many CA moments were removed (especially ones where Cloud shows a romantic interest in Aerith). That being said, for people who hadn't played the OG, I could see how CA could win some new converts. Ch. 8 and 9 are almost exclusively devoted to their relationship, and there's a natural progression/development to it. They go from strangers to friends, and it's not surprising that people could expect that to grow into something more.

The thing is, that progression entirely stalls in Rebirth. They're pretty much stuck in the same gear the entire game. Their scenes together are either Aerith trying to make things romantic/more intimate (mostly jokingly) while Cloud is uncomfortable/draws a line, or Aerith needing comfort and Cloud being a good friend. Sometimes the venn diagram overlaps like on the Water Tower in Ch. 11 and the Ch. 12 GS date. Compare the Clock Tower/Tunnel in Ch. 2 with the Water Tower in Ch. 11, or the beach in Costa del Sol in Ch. 6 and the Cosmo Canyon speech in Ch. 10; these are essentially the exact same beats, despite dozens of hours of gameplay/story in between.

Which is inevitable because these scenes simply reiterate a dynamic we already know. They do not deepen or transform their relationship, nor do they conclude in a way that is meant to leave the player wanting more. This is not a romance they want you to invest in, which is not to say these scenes are unimportant. They still reveal much about each character as individuals, especially Aerith.

Such is not the case for Cloud and Tifa's relationship. Every major scene they share together ends in an ellipsis. The tension after their fight in Kalm is so thick that the entire party comments on it; their conversation in Junon ends inconclusively with Cloud promising they'll talk it all out another time (and then cut to him doing sit-ups in his own room to prepare); and of course, their conversation/almost kiss in Gongaga is interrupted by Yuffie and Cait Sith. Even after their GS date, they're unable to look each other in the eyes, to say nothing of discussing what it means for them.

Rebirth wants us to get invested in this relationship, wants us to want to see what happens next, as this is the relationship that will be driving the narrative in Part 3. (It also did most of the heavy lifting for at least half of Rebirth itself).

Similarily, Rebirth has been teasing/delaying the inevitable Zerith reunion the entire game. Rebirth!Zack is just so deeply likeable, and his main purpose is trying to save/reunite with Aerith. The game wants you to want him to succeed.

Aerith in the OG has one of the most tragic fates of all time. Not only is her life cut short, but by the end of the game, it's also clear that her love for the protagonist was unrequited in the most spectacular of ways. Not only does she never get a chance to know the real Cloud, but it turns out the real Cloud's entire identity revolves around another woman. She not only loses her life but also "loses" the man.

So it's inevitable that people would be drawn to the idea that Cloud could have ended up with Aerith if she hadn't died, if only so her fate wouldn't be so damn sad.

ReTrilogy (and the Compilation) doesn't change Aerith's fate but it helps us recontextualize her character and her relationships. It's not that her love for Cloud is unrequited. It's that said "love" is actually an emanation of her very requited love for Zack. So requited that he's literally trying to cheat death and traverse across multiple universes to find a way back to her.

As for Cloud, it could not be more obvious how much he loves Tifa and Zack. He'd never pursue a relationship with Aerith in any universe where the two of them exist.
 

overheat28

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Overheat
I relate to you but in a different way. I love Cloud, but AC made me mad with his character for a moment. I know that he is a good character, but he put Tifa through a lot after the game events. I don’t know if it’s me being a woman or what. Tifa also was struggling with guilt and loss, and she was with Cloud from the moment she found him again up to saving his mind. But as soon as it got hard for him he left her alone and with two kids. I understand what was wrong with him, but at the same time…! At least Tifa did get to put him in his place and snap him out of it. So I came to find peace with that.

As far as Zack, I’m really hoping his part in all this is much bigger than fan service. Also, the moment him and Cloud reunite was kind of lackluster. He sees his best friend, who is a significant reason Cloud is the way he is, bad and good, but he just says Zack? Then they fight and he goes away. I guess they are in a crazy battle, but I don’t know, it was weird, I’d expect them to reunite with more time to see what is happening. There’s not even a mention anymore afterwards like, “I saw Zack” it just goes into Cloud looking uncanny with Aerith.

I’m hoping it will show him and Aerith doing their part in the lifestream to beat Sephiroth. That or Sephiroth does come for Aerith in another world, and Zack saves her.

Thanks for your response. I totally understand where you're coming from in regards to Advent Children. Cloud's behavior in that movie is questionable towards Tifa and the kids, at best, I agree. It didn't do anything to make me like Cloud, tbh, although he is much better in remake. But I suppose it's always Tifa that has to bring him back from the brink by design.

As for Zack, I feel they could have fleshed him out a lot more in Rebirth. The game is already massive and could have accommodated a few more gameplay sections. A couple of linear dungeons with his very fun combat would not have hurt. As it is, to truly experience Zack's combat you need to go through an endgame vr challenge which is not easy to master on top of learning Zack's playstyle. I feel they cut some gameplay sections from the game and shoved everything else in at the end. So I was definitely disappointed (this after putting him on the cover no less).

He also felt very "thrown to the dogs" in this game which I guess is part of my agitation. I mean it fits his character because that's what happened in CC. But the man needs a break, you know. He has no idea what's happening and is just running with it. Like Aerith can't even deign to talk to him while opening up portals to send him across worlds?

Meanwhile she shows up personally in sector 5 with Cloud to re-enact her first date with Zack. I understand this entire thing was a metaphor but still. This date is interspersed with Zack scenes showing him getting screwed over and over, while she's making merry with Cloud. The church is "their" place now, too? Cloud didn't even know what she was talking about. I was infuriated, I won't lie. Felt like repeated stabs into Zack's heart.

Later, the man acclimates to facing Meteor and Sephiroth Reborn alone very fast and his reward is to land alone in the church with some flower petals. Like, you're just making fun of him at that point while she's holding hands with Cloud against Sephiroth.

Rubbed me very wrong all things said and done. I hope they have something decent planned for him next game and he gets his happy ending with Aerith. Otherwise, I will not easily forget Square's gaslighting with this trilogy.
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
Meanwhile she shows up personally in sector 5 with Cloud to re-enact her first date with Zack. I understand this entire thing was a metaphor but still. This date is interspersed with Zack scenes showing him getting screwed over and over, while she's making merry with Cloud. The church is "their" place now, too? Cloud didn't even know what she was talking about. I was infuriated, I won't lie. Felt like repeated stabs into Zack's heart.
It's literally done on purpose, so that you feel that the wrong guy is beside her. Not only do you see it in the date itself, but you understand that Aerith's supposed to be with Zack there. She talks about their place and while Cloud doesn't know where it is, Zack is already in front of it (albeit not the same universe). Everything is made to make fans understand that through Cloud, she's seeking Zack.

To me the date + church is what truly kills CA; we're shown that they don't really mesh well together, and that both are uninterested romantically in each other, even if Aerith entertained the idea for a while.
 

nepheneethedestroyer

Lv. 25 Adventurer
The date starts with Aerith patting the spot next to her, and Cloud not only chooses not to sit there but actually moves even farther away from where he had originally intended to sit. He is very clearly drawing a line about where his relationship with her stands. Are we supposed to believe he suddenly falls in love with her in the span of 10 minutes after she talks about her Zack? Or is this action not perfectly in line with the actions of someone who has been shown to comfort a friend when she is in need? This is essentially the same beat as Evergreen Park in Remake, Cloud is awkward when Aerith tries to make things intimate, but opens up/comforts her when she gets sad about Zack

Honestly, I thought the most transformative moment of the Cloud/Aerith relationship in Rebirth was when Cloud remembers that Zack is head-over-heels in love with her (much earlier than he does in OG), which...kills any chance of Cloud and Aerith happening ever? Though I think Ch 13/14/dream date Cloud is in a bit of a weird headspace obviously.

He also felt very "thrown to the dogs" in this game which I guess is part of my agitation. I mean it fits his character because that's what happened in CC. But the man needs a break, you know. He has no idea what's happening and is just running with it. Like Aerith can't even deign to talk to him while opening up portals to send him across worlds?

I totally agree, and I wonder if Zack's overall role was cut short in this game for development/deadline reasons. It just seems so strange to have him in the game to this degree but then to have him basically mostly interact with Elmyra, Biggs, and Marlene? And his gameplay is quite fleshed out as well. The fact that Aerith and Zack have almost no communication besides that one hand-touch in the Gi village...if Omni-Aerith is as knowledgeable as she is that really feels pretty bad. Especially given that Marlene's "foreknowledge" is specifically granted to her by Aerith, and then she's the one who tells Zack that Aerith likes Cloud! (Admittedly, it's less harsh in the JP).
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
I definitely agree with Cloud remembering Zack. The minute he remembers Zack, specifically how Zack felt about Aerith, is the moment that CA seemed impossible to me. Let’s say Aerith moves on, Cloud the guilt-ridden dude that he is would have a hard time not feeling like he’s betraying Zack. This would be especially pronounced considering Zack sacrificed his life for him, during a point in time where he was trying to reunite with Aerith.

And Elmyra has even approved of him now. Perfect son-in-law material.
 
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Hellenic

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Hellenic
Heya Eveyrone!

I've recently finished Rebirth, and now I'm at the stage of desperately needing to talk about the game, so hopefully I've come to the right place. :-)

Disclaimer:
Possible wall of text ahead, not just only about the LTD (but I'll get there!), so feel free to ignore me if you're not in the mood of reading my ramblings.

So, who am I? I was a big fan of the OG FF7 in my childhood. I invested a lot in it's lore, the compilation and of course the LTD, I think I've even engaded in some discussion here in the past. I was a rabid Cloti supporter of the OG and I did not really liked Aerith at all. Her death didn't really hit me back, mostly because I was a kid who always preferred Tifa for Cloud, and did not really understand the big picture in context.

Now, my mindset surely have changed (for the good, hopefully). I've kinda cooled on FF7 after Advent Children. I've moved on to other games, not really following the compilation until the Remake sucked me back in. I've caught up on Crisis Core and now have just finished Rebirth, so I have an evolved liking of the story and characters. Plot twist: I adore Aerith now, but the whole cast of FF7 has grown on me much-much more as with the OG. Don't get me start on how Barrett became one of my favourites of the cast, and so on. As a grown-ass man, I teared up multiple times during my playthrough of Rebirth, both from joy and sorrow, so it really touched my soul.

My stand on the LTD and canonity as a whole:
Just to put it out of the way, I'm still Cloti and Zerith, but I see Cloud and Aerith's relationship in a new light. With the OG, I always thought they want to portray Aerith in a "new flame" role for Cloud to fuel the love triangle, but with the remake trilogy, it's very clear (for me) that it's much more of a very deep, pure care and protectiveness from Cloud then straight up romantic love. Although I think our boy has a crush on Aerith too, but that's understandable. It's nowhere as deep a romantic love as what he feels for Tifa hidden deep inside.

As for the canonity:
I'm on the opinion, that what is canon is always dictated by the most recent part of the compilation. In our example, it's the remake trilogy. So what's portrayed in these new iteration is the canon. If something is in the game, like the dates, then it's canon. There's no one date that's more canon than the others, all of the dates considered canon by me, because it's in the game. It's not fanservice (well, not ONLY fanservice), it's there to show how Cloud feels for his comrades. It doesn't matter at all, who Cloud goes on a date with, his overall feelings won't change the story.
I'm strongly on the opinion, that we, as players dictate how Cloud's soldier persona behaves. We can dictate that his crush on Aerith comes to light more, hence the two different behavior on the chapter 14 date (next time/why not). Or we can dictate that his inner feelings for Tifa resurfaces more, hence the Tifa skywheel date. It's all canon, because in the end it won't really matter. Although that kiss with Tifa gave me more joy than I want to admit, even if I think it's a little bit unneeded at that point. :-)

So, as you have guessed, I really, really love Remake and Rebirth. How they portray the characters, their relationships with each other is just pure joy to see and experience. And in my eyes, there's no LTD anymore, it's just different types of love and care, which made me love these characters a whole lot more.

Hope I didn't babble too much nonsense. :-)
Welcome aboard. Pretty much agree with everything you said here.
 

nars305

🎵 I am so, so bored 🎶
About if Cloud has romantic feelings for both-

My belief is if the creators didn’t want me to believe in Cloud and Tifa then they should stop beating me over the head about the promise they made to each other and how they’ve had crushes on each other.

Also stop putting in side stuff where Cloud has a certain reaction to hearing other guys hitting on Tifa, or show him bent out of shape when Yuffie says Tifa forgot about him, or have her voice constantly be thing thing that snaps him out of his psychotic moments.

There’s just a clear difference with how he is with Tifa compared to everyone else that I can’t ignore.
 

Hellenic

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Hellenic
I do agree that Zack should be getting more help from her. The optimist in me is saying they didn’t do this because they didn’t want the spotlight to be taken away from Cloud and Aerith who will have their last genuine interaction in this game. And they’ll be able to focus on the Zack side of things in Part 3 without having to worry about Cloud and Aerith anymore. Aside from his acceptance that she is gone.
Very much this. I really wouldn't worry about the Zack and Aerith reunion happening at this point and Zack getting what he deserves. It's clear as day to me at least.
 

liuliuliu

Pro Adventurer
Honestly not a big fan of the Zeroth angst set up.
Hopefully they can resolve it in the next installment, otherwise Azeroth reunite will be weird at least to me. Aerith needs to clear up some misunderstandings caused by Marlene. In Zack’s mind, Aerith moved on and likes Cloud in a “hyu hyu” way now.
 

Hellenic

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Hellenic
I'm not really on board with this "Aerith can be a bit dishonest because of the whispers you know" because she remembers that she gave the flower. So she remembers what she said to Cloud : "Take this flower, you can give it to your girlfriend" It can totally be a seller speech and Cloud did just what she told him to. So it's really strange to be angry at him about it. I still think it was not a good character writing.
Yeah this came off a bit weird to me too. As far as i could tell, the Whispers only took her future knowledge away, but she should still have retained all her memories she had with all of the party up to this point, so her not being happy about Cloud gifting the flower that she herself suggested as a gift to a girlfriend as an example is just weird.

I think there was someone here that suggested earlier that it could be something like her losing the context around their flower discussion at the time. Aerith was still a wingwoman for Cloud and Tifa at the time, thanks to her knowledge, but she didn't really feel the same way about it anymore after losing her knowledge? Something like that, not sure if i worded that right.
 

Hellenic

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Hellenic
Someone has stayed willfully ignorant of ToTP, in which Tifa shows just how independent and strong she already is. Also missed the bit where she may want a knight in shining armor to rescue her, but she keeps rescuing him back :monster:
I chimed in about this a bit earlier, but i do genuinely think they are staying willfully ignorant about the Tifa side especially. I mean it has some very pro Cloti bits and it covers the life of the character that is their biggest obstacle in this game afterall :awesome:. I also don't imagine anyone besides the actual Aerith enjoyers in that side will bother to read her side of the book either.

Also i'm a huge fan of Tifa doing the actual rescuing of Cloud constantly. It's just so great that they turn that hero thing upside down between the two.
 

Jane Fane

Rookie Adventurer
Such is not the case for Cloud and Tifa's relationship. Every major scene they share together ends in an ellipsis.

Similarily, Rebirth has been teasing/delaying the inevitable Zerith reunion the entire game.

Good one, I didn't fully actualize that until now. Of course I recognized that both Cloti and Zerith got boatloads of unresolved tension and anticipation but it didn't click that that parallel was intentional because of canonicity. I feel late. :lol:

And yes, this wouldn't be so obvious if not for the fact that Clerith interactions have a decidedly different tone. I've mentioned this before about their date, but you're right that all Clerith scenes seem to have that kind of quiet finality and/or sense of gratitude. There's no unresolved tension, it's just nice. Even the clocktower conversation, the closest they ever get to being rudely interrupted, gets a little ending beat after Aerith's "Don't take her for granted." I'm understanding it now – CA gets closure, again and again, not in romantic fulfillment, but just in tone. Meanwhile Cloti and Zerith aren't getting their closure until part 3, so Rebirth is awash in unresolved tone for them. Fun times.
 

Yoru

Pro Adventurer
I think there was someone here that suggested earlier that it could be something like her losing the context around their flower discussion at the time. Aerith was still a wingwoman for Cloud and Tifa at the time, thanks to her knowledge, but she didn't really feel the same way about it anymore after losing her knowledge? Something like that, not sure if i worded that right.

Still doesn't change the fact you can't be angry at a customer for doing what they want with their "gift"... I really think they failed their dialogue here.
 

Hellenic

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Hellenic
It makes me wonder what if this game ends with Aerith and Zack reuniting and still loving each other? What happens then? There will even be an explanation for that somehow, like Aerith doesn’t really love Zack but she knows she can’t be with Cloud.
I want to see Zack and Aerith kiss passionately just so the extreme Cleriths can lose their minds. Sorry not sorry.
 
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