SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Skilganon]

The Cloud-centric interpretation of NPTK isn't what I'm arguing for. My point is that SE doesn't seem to mind people having that interpretation.

I don't think SE's intentions are as clear-cut as people think.

The meeting on the cobblestone street is a reference to Elmyra. She meets her on such street and we see it in her trial.

I don't have much interest in arguing interpretations. But the lyrics "Life passin' me by, not knowing how the years have flown" indicates that she's been walking city streets for a while. Doubtful this is about Elmyra.

It's the same thing with Hollow and people saying it's about Zack, so it must mean that Cloud wants to embrace Zack.

I'm not arguing for any interpretation. Someone at SE translated these lyrics. I'm just wondering why more people aren't upset with SE for leaving space for interpretations they themselves have been arguing against for years.

Let me put it this way: If a Clerith fan fiction writer was commissioned to write a song about CA, I don't think it would be that different from NPTK.

These songs play into the worst theories from CA shippers. Nobody seems to care all that much.

 

[pxl_pushr]

Because a story that holds your hand to the level required for there to be no room for misinterpretation isn’t a good story, or rather it’s a boring one.

On one hand, shippers will ship a ham sandwich if you leave it on screen long enough. There’s really no use in trying to control that aspect of fandom, and you’re better off just telling your story and leaving it.

Any work that’s fun to interpret leaves room to be misinterpreted, that’s why it’s engaging.

Why be upset when the guy who wrote those lyrics straight up tells you what it means? That’s why I personally find the convo around the songs boring: puzzle has been solved already.

 

[Reaper3Delta]

On one hand, shippers will ship a ham sandwich if you leave it on screen long enough. There’s really no use in trying to control that aspect of fandom, and you’re better off just telling your story and leaving it.

That's exactly what happens with FF7 shippers; they see the ham sandwich standing next to a pink lemonade the owner just forgot and their assumption is "oh, they are in love" smh

 

[Eerie]

Shipping really isn't the problem, people can ship whatever it doesn't bother me. What bothers me is when they try to pretend that their fanon ship is the canon one, degrade characters in their stories etc. It's the whole illusional world that they have built as shippers that they try to pass as canon.

 

[Ryeleigh]

The Cloud-centric interpretation of NPTK isn't what I'm arguing for. My point is that SE doesn't seem to mind people having that interpretation.

I don't think SE's intentions are as clear-cut as people think.



I don't have much interest in arguing interpretations. But the lyrics "Life passin' me by, not knowing how the years have flown" indicates that she's been walking city streets for a while. Doubtful this is about Elmyra.

It's the same thing with Hollow and people saying it's about Zack, so it must mean that Cloud wants to embrace Zack.

I'm not arguing for any interpretation. Someone at SE translated these lyrics. I'm just wondering why more people aren't upset with SE for leaving space for interpretations they themselves have been arguing against for years.

Let me put it this way: If a Clerith fan fiction writer was commissioned to write a song about CA, I don't think it would be that different from NPTK.

These songs play into the worst theories from CA shippers. Nobody seems to care all that much.

The thing is... why should SE mind what interpretations people have of their games? Besides, the ones who would probably mind are the people who actually worked on the game and not really the company, lol. I mean, there just really isn't much a writer can do to stop people from having wild or even wrong interpretations of their work? Unless they become totally egocentric about their own work, flatten out all nuance, and argue with people either on social media or through another work, at which point it stops being fiction and becomes a mouthpiece.

And like, "why more people aren't upset with SE for leaving space for interpretations" very easily becomes "they shouldn't leave space for interpretations" which honestly sounds a bit like the Party in 1984 rewriting all literature in Newspeak so they could stop the horrors of thoughtcrimes. Which is also what religious fundamentalism does, where all differing interpretations are labelled heresies that should be stamped out. The extreme shippers, the ones who are honestly cult-ish about it, also have a similar mindset.

Besides, tbh, No Promises to Keep just as easily fits ZA and CT so I personally don't care much about the song, lol.

Shipping really isn't the problem, people can ship whatever it doesn't bother me. What bothers me is when they try to pretend that their fanon ship is the canon one, degrade characters in their stories etc. It's the whole illusional world that they have built as shippers that they try to pass as canon.

Someone said that being in fandom is like fighting misinformation in real time, lol. And yeah, this is what the non-canon shippers who demand canon/fandom validation don't seem to get: nobody cares what they ship, lol. What people care about are the lies, the high and mighty attitude, playing the victim, harassment, etc.

 

[abzy1200]

What bothers me is when they try to pretend that their fanon ship is the canon one, degrade characters in their stories etc. It's the whole illusional world that they have built as shippers that they try to pass as canon.

I think it's important to note that it's gotten to the point that content creators would rather dodge the topic entirely for fear of backlash. The LTD and the people who have been arguing about it for years have given the game a bad rep in some ways.

I mean, Cloud and Tifa's relationship is a core aspect of the narrative, and yet people can't talk about it without people clipping them and ridiculing them on Twitter.

I also think there might be a tendency from people to see that people argue over what we call a "Love Triangle" and immediately close their minds to new information and declare it ambiguous because "I couldn't care less about shipping bs" or something like that, leading them to miss crucial plot points in favour of upholding that highground because shipping is part of cringe culture these days, and they'd rather distance themselves from a massive part of the narrative because of that.

So, even though I think the LTD might have given the game a bit more longevity, I also think that, at this point, it's doing more harm than good to discussion around the game and peoples' interpretations of it. I don't mean that I want everything to be spoonfed to people, but just the existence of an "LTD" can immediately shift someone's perspective of things in such a way that they don't engage properly with the media.

I don't have much interest in arguing interpretations. But the lyrics "Life passin' me by, not knowing how the years have flown" indicates that she's been walking city streets for a while. Doubtful this is about Elmyra.

Even if it is about Cloud specifically, it could still be read as "My life was boring, and then I met you (Cloud), and through you I met so many amazing people and experienced things I never would have gotten to had I not run into you." So, I wouldn't stress about it too much.

 

[Skilganon]

Maybe most of my frustrations are the result of hindsight. Knowing the OG story puts things in a certain context someone new to the franchise wouldn't have. There's no point trying to analyze a story that isn't finished. Though it being a Remake, does that even apply?

 

[lyingbanana]

I mean, Cloud and Tifa's relationship is a core aspect of the narrative, and yet people can't talk about it without people clipping them and ridiculing them on Twitter.

Yes this so much, its so frustrating.

Also on the flip side of this, I'd also like to be able to talk about Cloud and Aerith's relationship or regular interactions without people derailing into "they are not canon" (usually by CT) or "its so romantic!!" (Usually by CA) Like nooo pls just let me analyze the relationships of the characters without it devolving into shipping. Those two characters can also be talked about without it being about romance.

I guess my wish for the end of the re-trilogy is being able to talk about all parts of the story without it getting derailed into shipping discourse. Like the relationships become so clear for even the average Joe that we can finally find peace lol

 

[Ryeleigh]

Yes this so much, its so frustrating.

Also on the flip side of this, I'd also like to be able to talk about Cloud and Aerith's relationship or regular interactions without people derailing into "they are not canon" (usually by CT) or "its so romantic!!" (Usually by CA) Like nooo pls just let me analyze the relationships of the characters without it devolving into shipping. Those two characters can also be talked about without it being about romance.

I guess my wish for the end of the re-trilogy is being able to talk about all parts of the story without it getting derailed into shipping discourse. Like the relationships become so clear for even the average Joe that we can finally find peace lol

I get that frustration but other stories that ended thirty, twenty, ten years ago with very definite pairings still have ship discourse and wars. So it might be good to get used to the idea that LTDs never truly end and still do your own thing regardless. XD

 

[Hellenic]

I get that frustration but other stories that ended thirty, twenty, ten years ago with very definite pairings still have ship discourse and wars. So it might be good to get used to the idea that LTDs never truly end and still do your own thing regardless. XD

Bleach says hi . No matter the conclusion here, the most hardheaded people will never change their mind on this stuff.

 

[pxl_pushr]

I get that frustration but other stories that ended thirty, twenty, ten years ago with very definite pairings still have ship discourse and wars. So it might be good to get used to the idea that LTDs never truly end and still do your own thing regardless. XD

That’s why I don’t care about convincing shippers of anything. I want the story they intend to tell, and people who bend and twist it in whichever direction can scream into a void.

As long as the story has satisfying payoffs for what’s been built up for me, then I’m good. If it doesn’t, then I’m out lol simple as that.

The LTD has grown to define some people’s entire online identity, so even Cloud, Tifa, Aerith, and Zack looking into the camera and saying the exact feelings they have for eachother will change nothing.

 

[Ryeleigh]

Bleach says hi . No matter the conclusion here, the most hardheaded people will never change their mind on this stuff.

Yep. And those hardheaded people will keep behaving exactly as they do now, lol.

The LTD has grown to define some people’s entire online identity, so even Cloud, Tifa, Aerith, and Zack looking into the camera and saying the exact feelings they have for eachother will change nothing.

Well, Cloud practically did look into the camera and call Aerith nakama so...

 

[Skilganon]

The latter half of the OG is where we see Cloud and Tifa's relationship being core to the narrative. The Remake series has yet to cover the most important CT scenes. I can totally understand someone who hasn't played the OG thinking that Cloud and Aerith's romance is the 'heart' of the story, or at least on par with Tifa, that Tifa and Aerith are equal love interests. I wouldn't fault anyone for thinking this, nor would I want to spoil anyone's experience of the story by spoiling the game in order to 'prove' my ship. People who know the origin and eventual solution to Cloud's issues are looking at the story in a completely different way than people who don't. To the people who know, the question isn't 'what' will happen, but 'how'.

People who think Cloud and Aerith are going to kiss in part 3 can't really be faulted if they are unfamiliar with the OG. The story takes some unpredictable turns. It was the intention of FFVII to subvert expectations, ever since 1997.

The structure of the story contributes somewhat to the acrimony of the LTD. CA scenes are front-loaded, whereas CT scenes are backloaded and contain massive spoilers. Aerith and Tifa do not get equivalent screen time in the OG, nor do they fulfill equivalent roles. (I don't mean to say one character is strictly more important than the other in terms of a one-dimensional sense). Shipping discourse tends to boil down the characters into merely being romance options, which the OG story only supported in a brief moment before the apocalypse is summoned.

 

[null]

I'm struggling to fathom how anyone could reasonably think Cloud will kiss Aerith in part 3. I suspect there may be some Advent Children era "it's not impossible, therefore it's inevitable" logic involved.

 

[lyingbanana]

I'm struggling to fathom how anyone could reasonably think Cloud will kiss Aerith in part 3. I suspect there may be some Advent Children era "it's not impossible, therefore it's inevitable" logic involved.

Well people managed to convince themselves that Cloud and Tifa kissing means nothing so at this point I dont think we are dealing with logic.

 

[Eerie]

There are also people who really gaslight their own peers, so to speak. They're making it sound like CA is canon when it's never been. And there are plenty of CAs ready to listen to them, who were brought by the trilogy and didn't play the OG. And who maybe watched AC and not ACC, following their peers' advices.
Also if I take the French version of CoT and CoLW for example, they're not only the old version, but also riddled in such way that it makes you believe CA is canon and CT is just friends living together. People reading that are completely misled and it's an official translation!

 

[Ryushikaze]

Well people managed to convince themselves that Cloud and Tifa kissing means nothing so at this point I dont think we are dealing with logic.

Not only that, but they're trying to convince themselves that a CT kiss is a BAD thing for that pairing.

Also no, it's never been about logic. It's always been about druthers. And if folks would admit it was just druthers, that would be more than fine, but the problem is in the ones who are not only insisting that CA is more than druthers, but that CT is absurd that are the problem.

 

[Nancy]

Not only that, but they're trying to convince themselves that a CT kiss is a BAD thing for that pairing.

It's so bad that they have to generate an AI of Aerith and Cloud kissing on their GS date when they have been claiming hand holding is more romantic

 

[null]

Well people managed to convince themselves that Cloud and Tifa kissing means nothing so at this point I dont think we are dealing with logic.

Yeah. I mean, even setting aside our usual rogues gallery. I'm channeling the mind of a brand new player who lives under a rock. I have no idea what happened in OG or the movie, or who that Tetsuya Nomura guy is, let alone him saying the character who dies in Rebirth won't come back in part 3. Heck, I'm not sure anyone even died in Rebirth because that ending is an incoherent mess to a newbie like me. But I really like Aerith with Cloud, and I've never heard of the Tifa kiss because I score Aerith's scenes 100% of the time.

That leaves me with: a gondala ride where they both decided not to kiss, a goodbye date where they hugged instead of kissing, several other dates where they talked about other things (usually Tifa) instead of kissing, shard hopping while holding hands instead of kissing... they've had so many opportunities to suck face by now.

But based on what I've seen so far, I think Cloud will kiss Aerith in part 3 because... ok here's where I'm stuck. What tells me they'll definitely make it to first base in part 3? How many "she's getting on that plane" moments do these two panda bears need? I can't think of a single reason that doesn't involve hardcore tunneling while putting faith in tropes.

 

[Ryeleigh]

Yeah. I mean, even setting aside our usual rogues gallery. I'm channeling the mind of a brand new player who lives under a rock. I have no idea what happened in OG or the movie, or who that Tetsuya Nomura guy is, let alone him saying the character who dies in Rebirth won't come back in part 3. Heck, I'm not sure anyone even died in Rebirth because that ending is an incoherent mess to a newbie like me. But I really like Aerith with Cloud, and I've never heard of the Tifa kiss because I score Aerith's scenes 100% of the time.

That leaves me with: a gondala ride where they both decided not to kiss, a goodbye date where they hugged instead of kissing, several other dates where they talked about other things (usually Tifa) instead of kissing, shard hopping while holding hands instead of kissing... they've had so many opportunities to suck face by now.

But based on what I've seen so far, I think Cloud will kiss Aerith in part 3 because... ok here's where I'm stuck. What tells me they'll definitely make it to first base in part 3? How many "she's getting on that plane" moments do these two panda bears need? I can't think of a single reason that doesn't involve hardcore tunneling while putting faith in tropes.

Even for a total newbie there is still the non-optional almost kiss between Cloud and Tifa, never mind all the intimate bedroom talks between them, and Zack is running around to reunite with Aerith and I'm pretty sure it's obvious by now that Zack was Aerith's first love.

So even if I shipped Cloud and Aerith, it would still be totally obvious where the story and pairings are headed. Because you don't bring dead boyfriends back to life just to shaft him by having the girl he died to see and the guy he died to protect hook up, lol. Except maybe in something like The Bold and the Beautiful but I want to think that FF7's writing is a bit above an unending soap opera.

There is always the Zack of it all but the poor guy still gets ignored, lol.

 

[Maidenofwar]

Aaw, this is cute though (CA at the MET)

Though I hear there is leak of (Part 3 "leak"?)

Spoiler: Kith?

ZA kiss

Even if there isn't though does it make it less romantic

If the person who has the leaks is in the room with us can they send the name of part 3

Edit: Oh dang, I didn't see the artist themselves has social media, whoops, deleting, didn't mean to put anyone on blast. Still grats to them for having an official account give a shout out to their art and the event.

 

[Nancy]

Isn't it too soon for leaks to be out? Lol, I saw the news saying that the story/script is done but yeah, still to early if the game isn't coming out in 2026-2027

 

[Eerie]

Isn't it too soon for leaks to be out? Lol, I saw the news saying that the story/script is done but yeah, still to early if the game isn't coming out in 2026-2027

There are leaks, the story is written. Hell in January the p3 draft was almost finished so I guess this one Hamaguchi talked about includes sidequests.

 

[pxl_pushr]

There are leaks, the story is written. Hell in January the p3 draft was almost finished so I guess this one Hamaguchi talked about includes sidequests.

Leaks are possible once a script exists, and that’s been confirmed for months (at least the first drafts of one). Development may require adjustments to that document, but it’s possible bits and pieces got leaked.

Always best to exercise caution when deciding to believe them or not. No harm in that.

 

[Maidenofwar]

Oh and just to clarify I wasn't saying the CA art at the MET "confirms" anything. Just it's nice to see CA in the public consciousness and SE putting CA on blast like that.

Also wholesome seeing the museum and their staff getting the awareness of their art projects in general like that. I thought it was a cool thing to do for the museum to run things so their staff could also make arts and them display the staff art.

In the case of the CA art, turns out the artist didn't have a social media presence previously but created an account to thank people (including the SE account) for spreading awareness of their art and the museum project.