LTD, round 3: This time, we settle it with Jello Wrestling

The one he lives with or the dead one?

  • Living

    Votes: 96 88.9%
  • Dead

    Votes: 12 11.1%

  • Total voters
    108
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Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
I love how Ryu saves his fbombs for me. :monster:

You're worth every one, and don't you forget it.

And don't pretend like that isn't exactly how people react here. Someone brings up that Aeris had a tragic past, and there's a million replies why Tifa had it worse. Someone brings up a point that Tifa has dependent and clingy behavior, and there's responses about how Aeris is clingy and desperate.

I know it happens, and I think by and large it's silly. Hence why I prefaced my statement with 'If I had to'
Also, Both women had tragic pasts. They just had different tragedies. I'm still undecided as to whether Aerith's early childhood would be a sad sack to her personally, given her complete lack of frame of reference. To an outside observer, it's definitely sad, but again, parable of the cave and all.

You should have been around this fandom long enough to recognize that the heart of every single argument has been and will always be which heroine is "superior". (Because that girl deserves Cloud as her consolation prize, dammit!)

I know they often do. And I also know they need to stop being that. Because it's insane and nonsensical binary thinking, and that's terribly irrational.
Also, I'm really not sure what about FF7 specifically that polarized the fandom that MAKES this about superior women choices. Is it the LTD?

Apparently! I mean shit, I love Aeris, but I fully recognize that (among other things) the girl does not know when to shut up long enough to keep Barret from wanting to shoot her in the fucking face.

Aerith: Hi!
Barret: DAKKADAKKADAKKADAKKA

Honest question here: then what do you consider her flaws to be? And real flaws, please, nothing like "SHE LOVES TOO MUCH" which is about as much of a flaw as Bella Swan tripping over her own two feet.

Tifa has much the same flaws as Cloud, actually. She's too afraid of screwing up to actually make a move, and so screws up by doing nothing- all with the best intentions. She doesn't exactly have the 'I'm useless' attitude, but she hesitates when action might be the better course of action. She's also terminally shy when it comes to her actual feelings, and honestly, she's probably a bit TOO the opposite of clingy. She probably needed to reel in Cloud's leash a bit more than she did, pre-AC/C.
 

Alessa Gillespie

a letter to my future self
AKA
Sansa Stark, Sweet Bro, Feferi, tentacleTherapist, Nin, Aki, Catwoman, Shinjiro Aragaki, Terezi, Princess Bubblegum
Honest question here: then what do you consider her flaws to be? And real flaws, please, nothing like "SHE LOVES TOO MUCH" which is about as much of a flaw as Bella Swan tripping over her own two feet.
Can I answer? :monster: Tifa's flaws, to me, are that she doesn't say things when she should (if she had chased after Barret after the Aerith stuff, things probably would have gone much more smoothly than they did and she probably should have gotten mad at Cloud earlier about him shutting himself off from everyone), and that for some of the game, she cannot function without knowing where Cloud is. I can understand that she loves the guy and wants him to be safe, but saving the planet is also sort of a big thing going on right then and it's just a wee bit more important than knowing where the guy you like is.
 

Strangelove

AI Researcher
AKA
hitoshura
Or are you referring to Mideel when the love of her life is comatose and non-functioning and she decides to stay by his side and take care of him as opposed to hunting down Sephiroth? Then?
When Cloud goes missing Barret comments on how weak she seems. And when the fate of the world is at stake, then yeah, I wouldn't call ditching that very important mission a useful choice in the overall scheme of things.

tl;dr version: the last bit of what Tina said.
 

Celes Chere

Banned
AKA
Noctis
Tifa reminds me of Avril Lavigne there.

I don't want to see you EVER saying that again.

Tifa's flaws, to me, are that she doesn't say things when she should

I agree. It's also that she's very insecure, and doesn't do enough for herself/give herself enough credit. I admire her selflessness, but she's still insecure.
 

Son Goku

It's my stomach, I'm hungry.
AKA
mugennagama
Reunion Files said:
03-Tifa`s been with Cloud for a large part of
her life at this point, but she still doesn`t
understand some of the complexities of
his heart, and this makes her uneasy.
Nonetheless she keeps this feelings to
herself for the sake of the children. (Nojima)
05-Tifa is a strong woman. She doesn`t like
what Cloud is doing, but instead of lecturing
him about every little thing, she`s been
waiting for him to realize for himself what his
actions are doing. She`s remarkably strong,
not only emotionally, but physically as well. I
think that using words to help lead Cloud to
his own conclusions, instead of constant
lecture, is a defining quality of Tifa`s
personality.(Nomura)
"a little push is what he needs, that`s all"

Clouds Profile FFVII 10th AU said:
The more he realizes how happy he is living with Tifa and the children, the more the fear of losing that and regrets toward the past trouble Cloud…

Tifa is not really insecure. But Cloud`s behavior gives her a lot of reasons to worry and feel uneasy.
She does her best to ensure a happy "normal family" life, despite having burdens from the past as well. But Cloud distants himselfs without explanation. ()
I think that their Relationship/Love is still in development at this point, at least pre ACC. The awkwardness of both in approaching one another shows that.
She is worried but unable to ask him directly, using Marlene as an excuse. (I`m pretty sure, they both knew Marlene wasn`t really the subject)
He is unable to talk about his sense of guilt and his fear of failure.

After ACC he feels freed from his guilt and he can look forward. A hopefull sign for them and he probably don`t hide "the complexities of his heart" anymore.

 

Sunstrider

Lesbian Aerith
AKA
Tess, Leaute
Tifa's flaw is that her DPS is sorely lacking when you factor in both her gear score and spec.
 
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Edley

Pray for Sound
AKA
Issac Dian, Dudley, Chev Chelios
Which she more than makes up for with her stacking limit breaks. And other stacking assets. :monster:
 

Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
This is the only topic in the Compilation section that has been responded to within at least the last day ... that's actually kind of sad.
 

Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
May as well talk about something love triangle related then...

So Denzel, some people say his real parents look like Cloud and Aerith, others say Cloud and Tifa... I say neither and WTF are you all on?
 

Lord Noctis

Harbinger of Darkness
AKA
Caius Ballad
May as well talk about something love triangle related then...

So Denzel, some people say his real parents look like Cloud and Aerith, others say Cloud and Tifa... I say neither and WTF are you all on?

I say, you are right.
 

looneymoon

they/them
AKA
Rishi
You know what's my favourite part of the newspaper? The personals and the missed connections.

tifa-584.jpg
 

Tifaeria

Hello again! 8D
AKA
Roxy Lalonde, Black Canary, Princess Vampira, Ah-Choo, Cutie-Aoide
That's hilarious and sad at the same time. I would love to actually see people respond to that. :awesome:
 

Fairheartstrife

[no fucks given]
AKA
FHS, that cloti bitch
Honest question here: then what do you consider her flaws to be? And real flaws, please, nothing like "SHE LOVES TOO MUCH" which is about as much of a flaw as Bella Swan tripping over her own two feet.

LOL. No, I don't think Tifa 'loves too much'. :P I think her reservation of emotion is actually one of her flaws. Had she simply come out and said, "Cloud, look, I love you," on the Gondola I think I would have cheered instead of muttered, "Oh, for fuck's sake, just TELL him."... But alas, no.

Tifa, as I see her, isn't insecure, as much as she is simply reluctant. To hurt someone else, and probably of being hurt.

I can relate to her reluctance to reopen wounds and even a bit of her closed off emotional behaviors--which is probably why she's my favorite FF character. We tend to 'fan' the characters we closely associate with.

Do I think she's more flawed than Aerith? No. But I don't like Aerith, and I make no secret of this... unlike so many fans that are "Oh, I love Tifa, I just think she's a clingy bitch..." Uh, right.

To sum it up, I don't think Tifa is self-assertive in the areas she should be, and her fears often eat up her ability to move forward, so she's stagnant until motivated by something 'greater' than herself. Self-esteem issues and all. ;)

I appreciate you wanting to know, as opposed to 'no youing' the response. :)

Now, I'm genuinely curious, because I don't like her, what traits/characteristics of Aerith are the ones that you found you liked? Perhaps an honest answer that's not "OMG she is so speshul" will shed some light for me. I'm not opposed to looking at a character from a new angle. So seriously, what is it about her?
 

OneWingedDemon

NOT AMUSED
Tifa is one of the most developed characters of FFVII and she certainly has a number of layers to her character with a fair share fo weakness and strengths, but being clingy is not one of those. Fuck, SE goes out their way to repeatedly state so, in case the game/movie/compilation didn’t make that clear.

She did collapse into near-uselessness without Cloud in FFVII. There's dependence on another person, and then there's over-dependence.

This isn’t just some guy. The man she loves is thought to be dead. She herself, as well as the crew, find Tifa’s behaviour to be out of character.

“when did you become such a wimp” they say? “I’m kinda shocked myself,” she says.

So considering she does fine without Cloud until he is thought to be dead, I don’t think an instance where she freaks out and hesitates to act out of fear is a sign of clinginess.
It’s grief. She’s depressed, feeling hopeless because not only is the man she loves and their leader lost, but Weapons and Meteor are also on their asses. It looks like a hopeless case. Fuck, even Red picks up on it and asks Tifa for reassurance. “Do you think we’re gonna make it without Cloud” (from memory) he asks.

You’re making it sound like she just shuts down the minute Cloud isn’t in the fucking room with her and it’s not the case.
FHS said:
When was this? Did I miss part of the game? This is Tifa you're talking about, right? Survived Sephiroth, member of AVALANCHE, at one point leader, runs her own bar in the slums, decides to go after Corneo on her own all without the help of magical Cloud...that Tifa...? Or are you referring to Mideel when the love of her life is comatose and non-functioning and she decides to stay by his side and take care of him as opposed to hunting down Sephiroth? Then? She collapsed into uselessness? Is that what you call it? To that I say
THIS. Thank you.
Also, what Ryu said.
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
Tifa's flaw is that her DPS is sorely lacking when you factor in both her gear score and spec.

Only because you're doing it wrong. Or trying to work with Premium hand and her limit breaks, instead of using tricks with her Godhand or Master fist.

May as well talk about something love triangle related then...

So Denzel, some people say his real parents look like Cloud and Aerith, others say Cloud and Tifa... I say neither and WTF are you all on?

They don't 'look like' C and T, but they are definitely supposed to be analogous to them. The picture of Denzel's biological family next to that of his new family, the fact that he lived above Sector 7 until just before platedrop, the matching Blond and dark Brunette, and topping it all off is Tifa holding his hand just like his biological mother used to do.
So, no, Denzel's biological parents look nothing like Cloud, Aerith, or Tifa, other than sharing the hair colors of the first and third almost exactly, but they are meant to deliberately evoke Cloud and Tifa, so as to draw a link between Denzel's life before and Denzel's life now.
 

Sunstrider

Lesbian Aerith
AKA
Tess, Leaute
Now, I'm genuinely curious, because I don't like her, what traits/characteristics of Aerith are the ones that you found you liked?
I CAN ANSWER THIS AND AT LENGTH TOO.

Based on character designs, I initially thought that I would like Tifa a lot more than Aerith. And I did at first.

Anyways, one of the big reasons I like Aerith so much is that she's a lot different than I expected her to be. She was the speshul character, the girl who can hear the voice of the Planet and ends up having this huge destiny she has to fulfill or however you want to put it. Still, she isn't like the usual character that has this roll. She's flawed. She's pushy. She puts her foot in her mouth. She doesn't always do ~the right thing~ in every situation, and she isn't a saint. She didn't react to Barret in the best of ways. She didn't always consider that Tifa might be hurt by the way she acted toward Cloud. I enjoy her because she wasn't this demure, sweet, innocent, perfect ball of pink fluff. She made mistakes, and it made her a much more relatable character. It also made it harder, in my opinion, to watch her die. This wasn't some divine saint fulfilling her higher purpose. This was a girl who loved life, loved people, and loved the idea of just being normal.

Aside from all that, I found her endearing. I felt much the way I imagine Tifa did. She went after Cloud despite how it obviously made Tifa feel uncomfortable (though we all know there were reasons for this, the player was hardly aware of them at first). She didn't always handle delicate situations like the whole Barret thing well. Still, it was hard for me to dislike her in spite of all this. She was fun, outgoing, and funny. She spoke her mind, and she wasn't afraid to poke fun at Cloud when he was being all ~serious business~.

So, I pretty much always liked her. A lot. It was when she left on her own to "handle Sephiroth" that I think I started to love her. Aerith wanted to be a normal girl. She tried so hard to hide what she was and what she could do from people. Still, when it came down to it, she took up her responsibility and shouldered it for the sake of Gaia and for the people she cared about. She looked to the future, and, no, I don't think she knew she was going to die. I do think she was aware that there was no small degree of danger in going off alone to summon Holy, but she was optimistic. I loved her parting words to Cloud. They were so simple. No profound goodbyes. She just told him to take care of himself and not to have a breakdown. She was so full of hope for the future.

When it broke my heart to know she wasn't going to come back like she promised, I realized that she'd become my favorite character somewhere along the line. Don't get me wrong; I don't like Aerith because she died. I knew going in she was going to, and I was prepared not to grow attached to her because she wasn't going to be around for a long time. Somehow, I ended up loving her character, flaws and all.

I think the problem with some Aerith fans' impressions of her are that they find out what she is, that she dies, and they label her the speshul snowflake martyr of the game without even stopping to look at who she was as a character and the real tragedy behind her death.

So, um, I had this plan for that to make a lot of sense, and it probably didn't. I ended up rambling. I should stick to spamming.

Only because you're doing it wrong. Or trying to work with Premium hand and her limit breaks, instead of using tricks with her Godhand or Master fist.
I should explain. I was just being retarded and tossing a random WoW reference in there because I'd just gotten through a raid. Tifa's a decent fighter and was always in my party. No need to Ryu me in the face.

That's right. I made Ryu a verb.
 

Fairheartstrife

[no fucks given]
AKA
FHS, that cloti bitch
Thank you for that answer, and believe it or not, it made sense. I can see where you are coming from, and although I still don't 'like' her, I admittedly can see why you do--based on your answer. So, again, thank you. :)
 

Sunstrider

Lesbian Aerith
AKA
Tess, Leaute
Is all good. I'm glad I made some sense.

I actually really get why some people don't like her. She's got some traits that aren't super-attractive at all. I feel she's a better character for it, but it makes sense that, good character or not, some people will be turned off by those things.
 

Alessa Gillespie

a letter to my future self
AKA
Sansa Stark, Sweet Bro, Feferi, tentacleTherapist, Nin, Aki, Catwoman, Shinjiro Aragaki, Terezi, Princess Bubblegum
In a way, you'd sort of expect Tifa to have Aerith's personality and Aerith to have Tifa's, with the way they look, at least. If you went solely off appearances, you'd think Tifa would be the flirty one and that Aerith would be the demure girl.

It makes both characters all the more interesting, imo. :monster:
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
I should explain. I was just being retarded and tossing a random WoW reference in there because I'd just gotten through a raid. Tifa's a decent fighter and was always in my party. No need to Ryu me in the face.

That's right. I made Ryu a verb.

I think you need to go further. Proper dictionary entry now. Add to Urban Dictionary, possibly.

Also, as for Aerith, as I've said 'she can be a bitch, that's why I like her.' Though I will admit, I got absolutely sick of her based on a lot of her fans who make her out to be Materia Jesus for awhile, though it was really wishing the idiots to shut up than an actual dislike of the character.
 

Winter

8ad 8r8k
AKA
oddishness, like vines, azula, femshep, winter
EVERYTHING LEAUTE SAID

EVERYTHING

also while we're on the subject of the girls' flaws; I've been playing through FFXIII and I find that Vanille (and her many flaws) are a strange combination of Tifa and Aerith's. It's a part of why I find her irresistable.

Oh and because she's a redheaded lesbian, obv.
 

Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
I think you need to go further. Proper dictionary entry now. Add to Urban Dictionary, possibly.
I accidentally Ryushikaze, is this dangerous?
 

Son Goku

It's my stomach, I'm hungry.
AKA
mugennagama
Also, as for Aerith, as I've said 'she can be a bitch, that's why I like her.' Though I will admit, I got absolutely sick of her based on a lot of her fans who make her out to be Materia Jesus for awhile, though it was really wishing the idiots to shut up than an actual dislike of the character.

So, you got emotional? :huh:
Based on the circumstances it`s OK i think. :lol:



About the flaws of the girls:
Aerith is not quite an angel and Tifa is almost an angel.
But they are not angels! (which explains the lack of wings btw)
Still, Tifa has a happy family now and Aerith became "GODLIKE".


See? They don`t have to be perfect. :awesome:
 
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