LTD, round 3: This time, we settle it with Jello Wrestling

[Makoeyes987]

Okay seriously, knock off the macro spam. This shit is getting old and pissing people off.

 

[Max Caulfield]

Okay seriously, knock off the macro spam. This shit is getting old and pissing people off.

Macro spam...?

 

[Dashell]

SPUFFY FTW!!! <3


That's because C/A appeals for the same reason Bella/Edward does: to fulfill a fantasy. It's major self-insertion because it's the idea of it that appeals, rather than the actual story (read: there is none). C/T doesn't lend itself well to that because they actually do have canonical meat and cannot be molded into generic Romeo-Juliet stories.

But then why can't they just self insert themselves as Tifa?

 

[Celes Chere]

Do my lesbians count as a macro?

 

[Ite]

I'm still having a hard time figuring out what this discussion is about.

Is it about Cloud's choice, canonically? Choice in what? Who to pursue a relationship with? He doesn't have a fucking choice, Aeris is dead. He knew the broad for a few months tops.

How could this debate possibly involve canon?

 

[Dashell]

I'm still having a hard time figuring out what this discussion is about.

Is it about Cloud's choice, canonically? Choice in what? Who to pursue a relationship with? He doesn't have a fucking choice, Aeris is dead. He knew the broad for a few months tops.

How could this debate possibly involve canon?

It's about who Cloud canonically loves.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Do my lesbians count as a macro?

Unfortunately, yes.

And this thread probably needs to be restarted since its pretty damn massive. Might do that tomorrow.

 

[Winter]

That's because C/A appeals for the same reason Bella/Edward does: to fulfill a fantasy. It's major self-insertion because it's the idea of it that appeals, rather than the actual story (read: there is none). C/T doesn't lend itself well to that because they actually do have canonical meat and cannot be molded into generic Romeo-Juliet stories.

how about no

 

[Ite]

Well, there's no canonical evidence for Cloud loving either of them. Final Fantasy X was the only game where a character actually said "I love you." That's CANON.

If we're having a debate, in which a series of statements make propositions, it STILL comes down to subjective opinion. Can we accept that everyone has their opinion since no one can actually prove anything? That way, we can state our opinions as entries into the fandom collective and the resulting debate will dictate prevailing opinion in the fandom.

What I'm finding instead is opinions shut down in favour of canonical evidence, of which there is NONE. There are implications, subtleties, hints, allusions, but zero facts. No wonder this is 500+ pages.

 

[Celes Chere]

Wat, no they don't Mako. Why are you so full of rage? D:

 

[Max Caulfield]

Wat, no they don't Mako. Why are you so full of rage? D:

He watched Human Centipede and liked it. Obviously, there's something wrong with him.

 

[Son Goku]

@mr_ite

This is/was about who Cloud loves Romantically.
Cleriths say he loved Aerith and never moved on after her death.
Clotis say the real Cloud always loved Tifa and they confirmed their love in the end of the Story.
And there some out there who say he loved both (and probably Yuffie too).
Cloti is proven Link.
Some Cleriths continue deluding themselves.

The you came here...
I can provide you a forum with people similar to your opinion...

Canon (fictional): Link

 

[Ryushikaze]

I'm guessing not just any website would do.

'Any website' is not the actual source.

@Ryushikaze
This says something about the Relationship of Cloud and Aerith, doesn`t it?

That folks are referencing fanfics as source?

SPUFFY FTW!!! <3

That's because C/A appeals for the same reason Bella/Edward does: to fulfill a fantasy. It's major self-insertion because it's the idea of it that appeals, rather than the actual story (read: there is none). C/T doesn't lend itself well to that because they actually do have canonical meat and cannot be molded into generic Romeo-Juliet stories.

Not like fanfic writers ever let the real story get in their way.

 

[looneymoon]

SPUFFY FTW!!! <3

Can I just say that this fandom creates the stupidest portmanteus I've seen? I feel embarassed saying I ship Fuffy/Bangel/Spuffy/Spangel

I'm still having a hard time figuring out what this discussion is about.

Is it about Cloud's choice, canonically? Choice in what? Who to pursue a relationship with? He doesn't have a fucking choice, Aeris is dead. He knew the broad for a few months tops.

How could this debate possibly involve canon?

because before AC was released, people believed Cloud's post FF7 life would be all about travelling the world searching for Aeris. That is, if he didn't committ suicide to be with her. Even after AC was released, certain folk convinced themselves that's what the movie was about.

Really, this whole topic is about a minute portion of the fandom that acts crazy.

 

[OneWingedDemon]

Because there is nothing exotic about Tifa. Nothing special about her existence.
She is neither the last Ancient, nor the only hope against Meteor. Let's be honest here, Aeris' development isn't exactly on par with the likes of Cloud and Tifa (DUH, they get like 3 disks), especially pre-Compilation (you get some more stuff with CC and shit). She is largely defined by the info we are given, rather than her on screen presence. Last Ancient, she&#8217;s lonely. Is upbeat and loves easily. Looks forward to the future and wants to see the world and ride airships but then is brutally murdered. Her Cetra heritage and thus her role in the story make her larger than life. You&#8217;re not even through disk 1 when she becomes the memory that must be honored by the rest of the party.

In the face of that, Tifa is painfully human. She has the same insecurities as many other people. There is less of an appeal in terms of wanting to be in her shoes.

He watched Human Centipede and liked it.

....so did I

...fuckin hell why is my font all wonky?

Is it about Cloud's choice, canonically? Choice in what? Who to pursue a relationship with? He doesn't have a fucking choice, Aeris is dead.

Yes to the first part. No to the last. There was no intent for a romantic relationship to begin with. C/A has yet to give any evidence for that beyond "he cared for her" & "she is still in his heart"

 

[Makoeyes987]

Well, there's no canonical evidence for Cloud loving either of them. Final Fantasy X was the only game where a character actually said "I love you." That's CANON.

If we're having a debate, in which a series of statements make propositions, it STILL comes down to subjective opinion. Can we accept that everyone has their opinion since no one can actually prove anything? That way, we can state our opinions as entries into the fandom collective and the resulting debate will dictate prevailing opinion in the fandom.

What I'm finding instead is opinions shut down in favour of canonical evidence, of which there is NONE. There are implications, subtleties, hints, allusions, but zero facts. No wonder this is 500+ pages.

Can someone please explain to this guy why he's wrong? Or hell, just read this. And this. And finally, this.

I'm too old for this shit.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Well, there's no canonical evidence for Cloud loving either of them. Final Fantasy X was the only game where a character actually said "I love you." That's CANON.

'I love you' is not the only way to make something canon. FFIII, IV, VI, VIII, IX, and XII prove that.

If we're having a debate, in which a series of statements make propositions, it STILL comes down to subjective opinion. Can we accept that everyone has their opinion since no one can actually prove anything? That way, we can state our opinions as entries into the fandom collective and the resulting debate will dictate prevailing opinion in the fandom.

This is based on a false premise. It is no more subjective than the outcome of FFIV is subjective.

What I'm finding instead is opinions shut down in favour of canonical evidence, of which there is NONE. There are implications, subtleties, hints, allusions, but zero facts. No wonder this is 500+ pages.

There are facts.
It's kind of hilarious though, that you think there aren't.
BTW, this thread says on the tin this isn't an opinion thread.

 

[Son Goku]

That folks are referencing fanfics as source?

Using fanfics as source... a new level of Cleriths to deal with (or not).
I`m sometimes not sure if people aren`t just trolling?

Can someone please explain to this guy why he's wrong?

Didn`t we already?

@mr_ite
click on the links for proof and what canon is.

 

[Max Caulfield]

In the face of that, Tifa is painfully human. She has the same insecurities as many other people. There is less of an appeal in terms of wanting to be in her shoes.

Some people like her because she human, because we can relate to her. She's not totally uninteresting or boring, either. Yes, she's has the same insecurities that everyone has, but she pushes through them and is still a strong, beautiful woman who kicks ass. She's kind and caring and defends the people she loves... even if it means putting herself in danger.

Now, I think that is pretty awesome.

....so did I

Ew.

 

[Dashell]

Well, there's no canonical evidence for Cloud loving either of them. Final Fantasy X was the only game where a character actually said "I love you." That's CANON.

Shit and all this time I thought Cloud and Tifa confirming their feelings of desire without words meant something. You guys better update the main page and say you were wrong, quick!

 

[OneWingedDemon]

Some people like her because she human, because we can relate to her. She's not totally uninteresting or boring, either. Yes, she's has the same insecurities that everyone has, but she pushes through them and is still a strong, beautiful woman who kicks ass. She's kind and caring and defends the people she loves... even if it means putting herself in danger.

Now, I think that is pretty awesome.

Right and I agree with you. I didn't say Tifa isn't awesome.
I'm just explaining why Aeris lends herself better to self-insertion fantasies

 

[Winter]

Because there is nothing exotic about Tifa. Nothing special about her existence.
She is neither the last Ancient, nor the only hope against Meteor. Let's be honest here, Aeris' development isn't exactly on par with the likes of Cloud and Tifa (DUH, they get like 3 disks), especially pre-Compilation (you get some more stuff with CC and shit). She is largely defined by the info we are given, rather than her on screen presence. Last Ancient, she’s lonely. Is upbeat and loves easily. Looks forward to the future and wants to see the world and ride airships but then is brutally murdered. Her Cetra heritage and thus her role in the story make her larger than life. You’re not even through disk 1 when she becomes the memory that must be honored by the rest of the party.

Aeris is also completely human, I don't see how she isn't. You make her out to be some mary sue compared to the glorious flawed Tifa.

And while what you're saying has a valid point (Aeris didn't get as much screen time as Cloud and Tifa) that doesn't mean shipping Cleris means you're shipping a self insert bullshit pairing. There's plenty of legitimacy there.

 

[Dashell]

I never got the whole self insertion thing. We all like Cloti, doesn't mean we self insert ourselves as Tifa... if they were self inserting, wouldn't it make more sense to make a new character?

 

[Celes Chere]

I know how to solve this issue

Spoiler: resbians

 

[Max Caulfield]

I never got the whole self insertion thing. We all like Cloti, doesn't mean we self insert ourselves as Tifa... if they were self inserting, wouldn't it make more sense to make a new character?

Unfortunately, that happens. More often than not.