LTD, round 3: This time, we settle it with Jello Wrestling

[crack]

this thread

 

[OneWingedDemon]

There is no canonical C/A story. C/A, even by the creators, was couched in completely hypothetical terms -- at best it's speculation.

And I am not saying Aeris is a Mary Sue. You're oversimplifying what I'm saying or just plain not getting it. I said there is a larger than life factor that plays into her appeal due to her Cetra nature. This is further fueled by her death, after which she becomes a memory to cherish, honor and fight for. Blah blah blah. Lends itself better to self insertion than regular Tifa who you must watch as she struggles and puts her life together.

The point is, there is more about Aeris that you don't know/isn't there. If Aeris and Tifa were movies, Tifa'd be the one you get a scene-by-scene breakdown for. There is more vagueness where Aeris is involved and a lot more restrictions where Tifa is as there is more to adhere to when it comes to ze canon.

It's like past 3 am, I cba to write an essay now

 

[Makoeyes987]

MACROS. CEASE THEM.

*wildly turns the thread's steering wheel so that its back on the road*

Anyways, I don't think all fans of Clerith are trying to self insert themselves. I think that goes more towards that rabid ones who end up wishing Cloud to die so that he can be with Aerith, or who twist every single thing with Cloud to mean something that connects him to Aerith.

 

[Dashell]

... that still doesn't explain where this "They are self inserting themselves" thing comes from, I mean I'm sure it happens sometimes... and sure she's more appealing to self insert yourself into, but that doesn't mean they do it.

Or what Mako said

 

[crack]

I agree these macros are getting kind of annoying. Which is why everyone should be posting gifs instead.

 

[Dashell]

Or you know we could post about LTD stuff... not that there's much going on now.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I agree these macros are getting kind of annoying. Which is why everyone should be posting gifs instead.

LOL gifs count too!

 

[OneWingedDemon]

Kids nowadays....what's wrong with text?

Anyways, I don't think all fans of Clerith are trying to self insert themselves.

Neither do I.
Anyway, my point: from what I see C/Aers are attached more to the idea of C/A than what is canonically there...which is nada.

 

[Ryushikaze]

... that still doesn't explain where this "They are self inserting themselves" thing comes from, I mean I'm sure it happens sometimes... and sure she's more appealing to self insert yourself into, but that doesn't mean they do it.

Or what Mako said

I think it's because there are two conversations going on.

One is about FANFICTION and people inserting themselves into Aerith there.
The other is about the LTD proper.

 

[Celes Chere]

Or you know we could post about LTD stuff... not that there's much going on now.

LAME

 

[Dashell]

Except there was something there (optionally in the original FFVII) or else Nomura wouldn't have said he would leave it up to the player.

 

[Vendel]

Q. We all know the pinkers like to pretend a lot of things about the story of FFVII. The reason given for this by some is self-insertion.

I often wonder if they truly like the story or only what they pretend it to be?

 

[Dashell]

http://tifa.nu/tifa/original/original.php?z=love01

there's where that quote came from...
still doesn't say where the interview is from though

 

[Ite]

Thank you for actually replying. I am currently up to speed.

So... what are we all still doing here?

 

[Son Goku]

http://tifa.nu/tifa/original/original.php?z=love01

there's where that quote came from...
still doesn't say where the interview is from though

That`s where you have that quote.
She put yam`s translation on her website. yam has probably the real source!

Btw, its a nice site. check it out.
Unfortunately not updated for a long time..

 

[OneWingedDemon]

Nomura's unwillingness to spoonfeed you does not mean there was "something there". He's never said there are no answers, just that he refuses to guide the player. In fact, he (or someone else with an N) said the answers are THERE

 

[Dashell]

Nomura's unwillingness to spoonfeed you does not mean there was "something there". He's never said there are no answers, just that he refuses to guide the player.

He said "I want to leave who Cloud likes up to the player."
Obviously, he sees it possible for Cloud to like either Tifa or Aerith or he wouldn't even say that.

 

[Ite]

Obviously, people need to be handheld and coddled where this is concerned, because critics can't disagree! That wouldn't make it literature!

Look, if Nomura had been doing his job as a storyteller properly, he wouldn't have needed a fucking explanation book that's longer than the game script. Either the answer is ambiguous, as he alluded to in 2002 (before he went batshit, I presume) and also in 1997 when the game came out... or there is a definitive answer. If you guys need a definitive answer, you now have one.

I for one hold about as much stock in author-produced addenda as I do fanfiction. Shaw wrote an essay about Pygmalion in which he writes how awful Henry and Eliza are together but critics never bring that up. Either the work speaks for itself, or everything speaks to it, and that includes critical analysis, subjective opinion, and fanfiction.

 

[Vendel]

Look, if Nomura had been doing his job as a storyteller properly, he wouldn't have needed a fucking explanation book that's longer than the game script. Either the answer is ambiguous, as he alluded to in 2002 (before he went batshit, I presume) and also in 1997 when the game came out... or there is a definitive answer. If you guys need a definitive answer, you now have one.

I for one hold about as much stock in author-produced addenda as I do fanfiction. Shaw wrote an essay about Pygmalion in which he writes how awful Henry and Eliza are together but critics never bring that up. Either the work speaks for itself, or everything speaks to it, and that includes critical analysis, subjective opinion, and fanfiction.

Oh boy here we go.

 

[Ite]

 

[Vendel]

I'm sorry but saying Author 'Word of God' or a guidebook produced by said author is the equivalent of fanfiction is insanely idiotic.

 

[Dashell]

Obviously, people need to be handheld and coddled where this is concerned, because critics can't disagree! That wouldn't make it literature!

What are you even going ON about right now? Do you even know? And saying "Obviously people need to be handheld and coddled where this is concerned" is a long cry from your "Cloud never said I love you to anyone therefore it's not canon."

Look, if Nomura had been doing his job as a storyteller properly, he wouldn't have needed a fucking explanation book that's longer than the game script. Either the answer is ambiguous, as he alluded to in 2002 (before he went batshit, I presume) and also in 1997 when the game came out... or there is a definitive answer.

Or you know... he CHANGED HIS MIND!
Christ what was ambiguous in 2002 doesn't have to be now. It was once ambiguous and it is no longer now that the compilation is out. I don't get why this is so hard for people to grasp.

If you guys need a definitive answer, you now have one.

We've had one since fucking 2005 or whenever Reunion Files came out... again not sure what you're going on about.

I for one hold about as much stock in author-produced addenda as I do fanfiction. Shaw wrote an essay about Pygmalion in which he writes how awful Henry and Eliza are together but critics never bring that up. Either the work speaks for itself, or everything speaks to it, and that includes critical analysis, subjective opinion, and fanfiction.

They write these books for a reason. That reason is not for you to look upon as fanfiction. Just because you disagree with them and what you WANT to happen didn't happen, doesn't mean what the creators say don't hold any value.

seriously... am I being trolled?

I am aren't I?

 

[Ite]

Or you know... he CHANGED HIS MIND!

So what FFVII presented us is forfeit?

 

[Dashell]

Yep, because, guess what? Yuffie and Vincent are optional! But they show up in Advent Children and other Compilation games. Therefore the fact that they are optional in FFVII holds no ground just like the fact that who Cloud loves is optional.

 

[Ite]

Then this is just another old-canon/new-canon debate. From 1997-2002, Nomura expressed both in the subtext of Final Fantasy VII and in interviews that the LTD was intentionally ambiguous, and critics could make of it what they wanted. This sparked lively debate that was mostly built on subjective analysis with what the game provided. From 2005-Present, Nomura has changed his mind and solidified the answers.

This thread still exists after five years because people don't take author-made addenda seriously when it contradicts itself. If you are taking what Nomura says in the Ultimania as the definitive answer, you have to forfeit his interview in 2002, and also whatever he was thinking in 1997 when he made the game, as whatever he is thinking presently is canon,

I understand that in the creation of the sequels, Nomura had to sacrifice the ambiguity of things like the game's ending, the LTD, and secret characters. Great. Debate over. CloTi is canon, Aeris was a mother figure (?)

Critical analysis is replaced by Word of God. Why, then is the debate still here? You can't possible be arguing canon when there's so much goddamn canon evidence in one camp's favour, whereas all the other camp has is one statement from 2002 that has been contradicted numerous times by the same guy. You can't be here after 3 threads and probably 1500 pages if the only argument against your heaps of evidence is "no u."