New forum for member feedback

[Zee]

I have to confess I'm confused now, so sorry if this is a stupid question, but what would you change about it?

have all members have the ability to at least view the forum just....makes sense imo

especially since the point of this is supposed to be open communication making everything invisible doesn't seem very open??

 

[Octo]

But if someone wants something to be public theres nothing stopping them making that thread, this is just affording that level of privacy to those who want it.

I'm working on the assumption that its just for feedback for mods, so its not the same as grieviances between members - in which case I'd want the members concerned to be able to view it.

Also, if we're nominating people i'll go with Octo, GLD and Fangu. They're incredibly fair, patient and nice to everyone.

I think theres something wrong with me, when I see things like this I just want to type out a load of verbal abuse. NICE?! NICE?! how the FUCK am I nice?!

 

[Hisako]

which doesn't even touch on the idea of the fact they are supposed to be confidential and it has been openly discussed with regular members. PRIVACY. DO WE HAVE IT.

The bottom line is that if the staff section is visible publicly, we won't have it.

imo the system should be as such that the issues should always be approached privately at first and the parties involved should be asked if they wish to bring it out in public. Then if yes, yes, if no, no.

It'd probably easier to adapt what we have now: have private threads between member and staff (which is basically what the staff section is already, right? Except that's just a one-way-street) and then bring specific threads out into public if so desired.

 

[Zee]

But if someone wants something to be public theres nothing stopping them making that thread, this is just affording that level of privacy to those who want it.

that defeats the purpose of having an entire section to air grievances : \

I'm working on the assumption that its just for feedback for mods, so its not the same as grieviances between members - in which case I'd want the members concerned to be able to view it.

if it's just feedback for mods then that's even MORE reason to have members view and weigh in because the way the staff behaves should be important to everyone

 

[Ryushikaze]

I have to confess I'm confused now, so sorry if this is a stupid question, but what would you change about it?

Second.

The reason I think its a good idea is because lets say I decided that Tenny (for example! ) was the devil or something, that I could bring that up without having everyone else on the forum wading in with their 2cents and clouding the issue. I'd want the other mods who I trust to be able to see it too, which would afford me a level of transparency I wouldn't have if I tried to get Tenny to change her devil worshipping ways via PM.

What's this 'for example?'
Everyone's a devil worshipper in minnieso-ta, ya.

And yes, mods do on occasion ask regular members about reports, or mention the vague details of a report publicly. This is not to bully the person who made the report, but to gauge just how prevalent an attitude is, especially when the report implies there is a significant portion of the member base that agrees with the report. We try not to reveal the identity or particulars of the issue if possible, but sometimes it is guessed. Sometimes it seems everyone knows about the report before the topic is broached.

have all members have the ability to at least view the forum just....makes sense imo

especially since the point of this is supposed to be open communication making everything invisible doesn't seem very open??

Then open the thread in feedback and suggestions instead.

But if someone wants something to be public theres nothing stopping them making that thread, this is just affording that level of privacy to those who want it.

Exactly. It is a more efficient alternative to PMing a member of staff with your issues about other members or members of staff, not the only method of talking with or about staff.

I'm working on the assumption that its just for feedback for mods, so its not the same as grieviances between members - in which case I'd want the members concerned to be able to view it.

We can work on adding that functionality as well, as that's an excellent thought.

I think theres something wrong with me, when I see things like this I just want to type out a load of verbal abuse. NICE?! NICE?! how the FUCK am I nice?!

In the precise and exacting sense, off course.(/sp)

 

[Rumpelstiltskin]

Sometimes, reports we receive have almost no explanation or context. Not everything is automatically a violation of the rules. Sometimes, we have to look into things, to figure out what, exactly, the complaint IS. So we have to ask questions.

Or make shit up, as the case usually is.

 

[Zee]

Then open the thread in feedback and suggestions instead.

that defeats the purpose of having an entire section to air grievances : \

 

[Octo]

I guess what it comes down to is that I trust pretty much all the mods, I feel like that puts me in the minority but there it is, so I feel secure that if I had a problem with a particular mod I could rely on the others to take a fair and balanced approach.

if it's just feedback for mods then that's even MORE reason to have members view and weigh in because the way the staff behaves should be important to everyone

Not necessarily, if I've just got one particular issue I want dealing with then I would want that tackled. It could just be a minor thing, not something that would affect the entire forum. What happens now is that everyone likes to wade in with stuff - and if they have problems then they're welcome to make a thread too - but more often than not what happens is people rake over old stuff because they have an axe to grind or whatever, and nothing gets resolved.

I know it would piss me off no end if a problem I had got hijacked like that.

 

[Zee]

I guess what it comes down to is that I trust pretty much all the mods, I feel like that puts me in the minority but there it is, so I feel secure that if I had a problem with a particular mod I could rely on the others to take a fair and balanced approach.

yeaaaah see i don't feel that way :' )

I know it would piss me off no end if a problem I had got hijacked like that.

why would it get hijacked if all people are doing is viewing?
and people could requested/get invited to certain threads if the situation called for it

but seeing how the mods handled things would maybe give people more faith in them

 

[Lex]

I really don't see how having members being able to see or post what you've written is going to help someone with problems they feel they want to privately discuss with moderators.

 

[Hisako]

why would it get hijacked if all people are doing is viewing?
and people could requested/get invited to certain threads if the situation called for it

Because maybe people would like the situation handled privately first as was the original theme behind reports/decisions

Honestly we just need choices implemented. Privacy for those who want it, public viewing of issues for those who want theirs public. We can't automatically assume that every problem isn't a sensitive issue that can be handled out in the open for everyone to see.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Then open the thread in feedback and suggestions instead.

that defeats the purpose of having an entire section to air grievances : \

I disagree. Because it means we have two sections for airing greivances in. One public for the whole forum, one more confidential. And if we can swing it, for letting two members discuss their issues in private.

Edit: Made this post before I saw everyone else's replies, got delayed hitting reply. Basically, what they said.

 

[Octo]

why would it get hijacked if all people are doing is viewing?
and people could requested/get invited to certain threads if the situation called for it

Ahh, I misunderstood sorry. Viewing is certainly a better option than everyone being able to post, but at the same time that doesn't guarantee that drama wouldn't erupt as a result.

I wouldn't oppose some sort of system where once the situation has been resolved to the original complainants satisfaction (and with their consent) the thread then being made public. I just think that while things are ongoing people should be entitled to privacy if they want it.

 

[Rumpelstiltskin]

Here's an example for you.
I get banned and lodge a complaint to road directly because I don't trut any other staff member.
Road goes to staff section and they have a convo about it to which road comes back to me and informs me of the underlying decision.

I argue my point, he tells me that a staff discussion took place and a majority decided to have this outcome.

That's it.

Nothing more.

I just get told by road that staff "discussed" things.

Then two days later Aaron changes the rules to compensate for the thing they banned me for.

So yeah, I would like it set out that if a member has a complaint they see the FULL discussion, not just what one staff member gets back to you with.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Here's an example for you.
I get banned and lodge a complaint to road directly because I don't trut any other staff member.
Road goes to staff section and they have a convo about it to which road comes back to me and informs me of the underlying decision.

I argue my point, he tells me that a staff discussion took place and a majority decided to have this outcome.

That's it.

Nothing more.

I just get told by road that staff "discussed" things.

Then two days later Aaron changes the rules to compensate for the thing they banned me for.

So yeah, I would like it set out that if a member has a complaint they see the FULL discussion, not just what one staff member gets back to you with.

Eh, no.

You were told several times you were banned for flaming another member.

From one of several PMs I sent you on FFOF:

Dude, this is your third ban, and the last one lasted two weeks. You were banned this time because you insulted this girl. The reason we did not give you yet another infraction is because you were infracted for the same misconduct twice before, just over two months ago. Just because your warnings expired, doesn't mean you get a clean slate and all previous misconduct is forgotten.

 

[Tifabelle]

I'm just gonna go on record and say that this seems like a pointless effort to placate members without actually solving the problems that have been ongoing.

I fail to see how making another forum will make the staff be more communicative and less cba. It doesn't address any of the concerns that have been expressed (and mostly ignored) in the past about staff behavior.

I like the idea of being able to vote on staff. I'm assuming this suggestion is for promoting new staff, btw, and not on current staff?

I guess what it comes down to is that I trust pretty much all the mods, I feel like that puts me in the minority but there it is, so I feel secure that if I had a problem with a particular mod I could rely on the others to take a fair and balanced approach.

And that's nice, but past behavior (and current behavior for that matter) and things that have been said by some mods indicate otherwise.

The thing is, and what I feel like escapes some people, is that staff behavior is everyone's concern. Yes, it's staff responsibility to discuss and make decisions. And it's the memberbase's responsibility to see that they are doing so in a fair, open, and constructive manner.

 

[Octo]

So yeah, I would like it set out that if a member has a complaint they see the FULL discussion, not just what one staff member gets back to you with.

Yeah that's totally fair, and the complainant should be able to have a thread to respond in too instead of having to relay messages back and forth through one mod.

 

[Celes Chere]

I really don't see how having members being able to see or post what you've written is going to help someone with problems they feel they want to privately discuss with moderators.

Why does it have to be private though, what's everyone got to hide from each other, especially when it's an issue with the Mods/Admins? Why can't it just go into the Staff Feedback thread, or the Staff Complaint thread? if it's about a member, man I'd really like to know if it was me that someone had an issue with. If someone's talking to staff about my behaviour, I'd like to be included in that. I'm not sure if every member wants to know when they're being bitched about, but I sure would.

Privacy for those who want it

Lol privacy on tls XD

but at the same time that doesn't guarantee that drama wouldn't erupt as a result.

There is no guarantee it won't erupt in ANY situation. I think by creating this new super secret Forum to go with the other super secret Forum, more drama has actually been stirred. Especially since the staff was like "well we thought this was the best idea so that's what you get"
ever considered asking the members opinions first?

 

[Fangu]

Yeah that's totally fair, and the complainant should be able to have a thread to respond in too instead of having to relay messages back and forth through one mod.

Yeah, that will reveal that the mods also disagree on how to handle certain matters. It's rarely a matter of 'all for one, one for all, BAM' though to the receiver of the PM - that's exactly what it feels like.

The new forum is sort of a "report without reporting" where other members can send their message to the entire staff at the same time. Also other members can be invited to the thread (if I've understood it correctly?)

I can understand why this might seem like a '1 member vs 10 staff members', especially if you don't trust a lot of the mods.

Re trust issues and ongoing unsolved conflicts between members and/ or members and staff that might be behind them:

I've had experiences where I thought a member was weird or rude or I just didn't get this person at all. Then I talked to this person on chat, and it changed my view. I'd like to talk to all of yous, and I also want all of yous to talk to all of yous, preferably with your actual voices, because it helps creating an image of the person that's behind the user name, an avatar and some font. There really isn't any need for 2 members showing off as extreme hard balls, when both are actually quite sensitive and super nice people when you talk to them separately. I'm sorry for ranting about this, but it's such a waste! Now don't think I'm saying this for just a part of the forum or just certain members or whatnot, because this goes for several members of any sex and size and country. I have talked to a lot of you (and I never kiss and tell) and most of you are really amazing, kind people; funny too, and some of the conflicts going on here are just so baffling to me.

YES I WANT EVERYONE TO HOLD HANDS GET OVER IT

I once read a saying that goes something like the most bitter conflicts are usually the ones where both parties think they are the weakest part.

I forgot to mention, I think Adri should be bumped to s-mod.

 

[Octo]

I'm just gonna go on record and say that this seems like a pointless effort to placate members without actually solving the problems that have been ongoing.

I fail to see how making another forum will make the staff be more communicative and less cba. It doesn't address any of the concerns that have been expressed (and mostly ignored) in the past about staff behavior.

Well its an option for those who want it anyway.

The thing is, and what I feel like escapes some people, is that staff behavior is everyone's concern. Yes, it's staff responsibility to discuss and make decisions. And it's the memberbase's responsibility to see that they are doing so in a fair, open, and constructive manner.

I agree, and I'd like to add to that that it's the memberbase's responsibility to be reasonable and civil in their responses too.

It bothers me that if I did have a problem with certain mods, that If I said anything publicly people would use that as an oppurtunity to make those mods whipping boys. Which isn't something I want, it makes people defensive and then fuck all gets done.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Why does it have to be private though, what's everyone got to hide from each other, especially when it's an issue with the Mods/Admins? Why can't it just go into the Staff Feedback thread, or the Staff Complaint thread? if it's about a member, man I'd really like to know if it was me that someone had an issue with. If someone's talking to staff about my behaviour, I'd like to be included in that. I'm not sure if every member wants to know when they're being bitched about, but I sure would.

I think the name of this section is confusing people. It's not just a feedback forum. You can use that section for anything. Instead of making reports, you can make a thread in that section, where we can have a more direct conversation with you about the issue. It will no longer just be us discussing things in the Staff Section, leaving you sitting around, potentially for days, waiting for an answer. The new forum provides a more direct line of communication between us.

 

[Tifabelle]

Why can't it just go into the Staff Feedback thread, or the Staff Complaint thread?

Oh you mean the threads that basically accomplished nothing

 

[Cookie Monster]

I forgot to mention, I think Adri should be bumped to s-mod.

Adri already is an SMOD.

She just doesn't want her name to be blue, iirc.

 

[Octo]

Why does it have to be private though, what's everyone got to hide from each other, especially when it's an issue with the Mods/Admins? Why can't it just go into the Staff Feedback thread, or the Staff Complaint thread? if it's about a member, man I'd really like to know if it was me that someone had an issue with. If someone's talking to staff about my behaviour, I'd like to be included in that. I'm not sure if every member wants to know when they're being bitched about, but I sure would.

Well like I said, if it was issues between members, then the members concerned should be allowed to view and post to resolve the issue with the mods. If nobody is satisfied with that, then theres nothing stopping them going public.

There is no guarantee it won't erupt in ANY situation. I think by creating this new super secret Forum to go with the other super secret Forum, more drama has actually been stirred. Especially since the staff was like "well we thought this was the best idea so that's what you get"
ever considered asking the members opinions first?

But the old system is still in place, its not like anything is being taken away here. Nobody is being forced to use the new forum.

I think the name of this section is confusing people. It's not just a feedback forum. You can use that section for anything. Instead of making reports, you can make a thread in that section, where we can have a more direct conversation with you about the issue. It will no longer just be us discussing things in the Staff Section, leaving you sitting around, potentially for days, waiting for an answer. The new forum provides a more direct line of communication between us.

And I'm right in thinking, if I had a complaint about Fangs that you would contact her and she would also have access to the forum to respond right?

 

[Tifabelle]

I agree, and I'd like to add to that that it's the memberbase's responsibility to be reasonable and civil in their responses too.

It bothers me that if I did have a problem with certain mods, that If I said anything publicly people would use that as an oppurtunity to make those mods whipping boys. Which isn't something I want, it makes people defensive and then fuck all gets done.

Implying that what people want is to just make mods their whipping boys. Using rare and extreme instances as examples of how to run a forum is pretty foolish. You'll find that most people are perfectly capable of being civil and reasonable. And the mods have to be able to accept criticism and respond accordingly. People don't like being ignored and dismissed, and so sometimes lash out. The mods aren't completely without fault, and saying things like this comes across as having a lack of faith in members (imo). The times where things have gotten out of hand are so few and far between that it seems irrational to me to use them as examples.