Lex
Administrator
Not if you're racist, I guess
NEW TRAILER: State of Play May 2019
- Thread starter Lex
- Start date
Not if you're racist, I guess
Express trains (and busses) are also largely put in place to mitigate transportation needs explicitly around common peak hours.
Example: Lots of times you'll have cities where large numbers of people work in one area, live in another, and they all work roughly from 9-5. Most frequently that means that those express lines are usually just one direction in the morning and the other direction in the evening between those stops, and they just ignore other stops. That way they can go between the regular ones to supplement the regular schedule, rather than actually being separate "lines" or routes from one location to the other.
They're less about a city's overall size, and more about an analysis of its of population density, and specifically having a predictable movement of exceptionally dense parts of that population with an increased need for movement between a small number of locations within known times.
It's also worth noting that each Sector in Midgar is likely to have multiple stations that they can stop at along the way, and the Sector 1 to 8 Express line would likely just be hitting the major hubs of those places, and bypassing all of the other stops. Because of my earlier point, even relatively short travel distances can have express lines if they have the density to necessitate them.
X
Not to mention people commuting from the slums to the plate.
LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
If so then I'm wrong too.
Well that's true X, but the scene seems to be taking place in the middle of the night. So they've got what is probably the last train toClarksville Sector 8 leaving at 1:13 am, where there's literally nobody else around but the station guards, and it's an EXPRESS TRAIN. I guess one could argue that 1 am might be peak commuter time in Midgar, I mean, who knows. Is your point that we can't make an informed hypothesis about how big Midgar is from the fact that it runs EXPRESS TRAINS in the middle of the night?
I don't know of any big cities that run these peak time express trains within their inner city, but maybe you do.
And of course, Midgar has no suburban sprawl.
Well that's true X, but the scene seems to be taking place in the middle of the night. So they've got what is probably the last train to
I don't know of any big cities that run these peak time express trains within their inner city, but maybe you do.
And of course, Midgar has no suburban sprawl.
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X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
If I had to guess about off-hours express transportation in Midgar, I'd assume that there could be a few factors at play:
It's not unheard of for Japanese business culture to involve a lot of late-night drinking, so the idea of some express trains running late isn't too unrealistic, especially depending on if there's a lot of night life in one district and cheap hotels in another, you'd potentially be looking at a way of also managing profitability by efficiently transporting people from one are into another – both of which help increase the monetary input into the economy of their respective sections because it's easy.
For Midgar, I'd also expect that there are a lot of routes that involve changing shifts for guards, and military relief transport. For that type of thing because Midgar's already got such a ubiquitous military presence, it doesn't really make sense to fully quarantine off some trains for military-only use. Shinra wants there to be military personnel in places as often as possible, but another aspect of that is efficiency. I'd bet that some of the express lines also serve the function of helping to relieve guard staffing and efficiently replace them without needing to worry about potential issues at various stops or other incidents, because it also serves as a system for specific prioritization between certain points. Off-hours are actually the primary time to do something like that, and while there are the occasional regular person who'll take advantage of them, they'd almost exclusively be helping Shinra keep tight management around the various city sectors.
It's this kind of detail that I really like, because I think that the Remake is going to go to significant lengths to let you get to know what the upper plate and the slums are like for a little longer, so that the impact of dropping the plate just to take out AVALANCHE is going to have an even more visceral and gut-wrenching shock to it.
X
It's not unheard of for Japanese business culture to involve a lot of late-night drinking, so the idea of some express trains running late isn't too unrealistic, especially depending on if there's a lot of night life in one district and cheap hotels in another, you'd potentially be looking at a way of also managing profitability by efficiently transporting people from one are into another – both of which help increase the monetary input into the economy of their respective sections because it's easy.
For Midgar, I'd also expect that there are a lot of routes that involve changing shifts for guards, and military relief transport. For that type of thing because Midgar's already got such a ubiquitous military presence, it doesn't really make sense to fully quarantine off some trains for military-only use. Shinra wants there to be military personnel in places as often as possible, but another aspect of that is efficiency. I'd bet that some of the express lines also serve the function of helping to relieve guard staffing and efficiently replace them without needing to worry about potential issues at various stops or other incidents, because it also serves as a system for specific prioritization between certain points. Off-hours are actually the primary time to do something like that, and while there are the occasional regular person who'll take advantage of them, they'd almost exclusively be helping Shinra keep tight management around the various city sectors.
It's this kind of detail that I really like, because I think that the Remake is going to go to significant lengths to let you get to know what the upper plate and the slums are like for a little longer, so that the impact of dropping the plate just to take out AVALANCHE is going to have an even more visceral and gut-wrenching shock to it.
X
LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
That's true, but it doesn't seem to be the case in Midgar since, as I said, there's nobody on the platform but the guards.
I get the feeling that station serves the Sector 1 reactor only, so of course there wasn't anyone expected to be on that train in the first place. It wasn't even a passenger train, but some sort of tanker.
JBedford
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- JBed
I think it's meant to be a public use station. A Sector 1 station shows up again in Crisis Core, which I assume is meant to be the same one.
I don't know if it's worth mentioning, but in the original after bombing Sector 1, the train AVALANCHE board is the "last train out of Sector 8 station", with its last stop being "Sector 7, Train Graveyard". Expected time of arrival is 12:23AM, Midgar Standard Time.
I don't know if it's worth mentioning, but in the original after bombing Sector 1, the train AVALANCHE board is the "last train out of Sector 8 station", with its last stop being "Sector 7, Train Graveyard". Expected time of arrival is 12:23AM, Midgar Standard Time.
X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
Are you referring to the scene where everyone's jumping over the turnstiles into the lobby/hallway? It's only usually during daylight hours when you'll see lots of people generally meandering about in those areas in public stations, as that's when the various information kiosks and whatnot are open for business, and the general commuters and public are out and about. Most of the time later at night, everyone's down at the platform, and there's usually just an influx of people within 5-6 mins of when one of those trains arrive/leave.
Note: This is a decent quick guide for Train stuff in Japan.
Additionally, like ChipNoir mentioned, depending on the primary purpose for the train and the section of the station that they're in, if it isn't a passenger train (which is highly unlikely if it's the one headed to the Reactor), it'd be even more unlikely to see anyone else there in the off-hours. I'd assume that the trains are mostly supply trains that the Reactor Guards also tend to take to switch shifts.
Also, depending on the need these routes can sometimes justify creating separate dedicated lines for them. London is actually a good example of this sort of thing with several express lines going to the airport (again, because of diverting large populations of passengers into a more efficient system to assist with density of transport:
X
LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
IIRC, the train station they arrive at is the same station Zack arrives at in Crisis Core, which is a passenger station, where you can take a passenger train to the sector 5 slums. When Cloud & Co arrive at the platform, there is nobody ON the platform except for guards. As far as we can tell from that very brief trailer, there are no civilians at the train station at all, but it's possible that when we have the full game, we'll bump into some NPCs there, who knows. Or are you trying to say that it's totally possible the Sector 1 train station is teeming with commuters seeking an express service to Sector 8 at 1 o'clock in the morning?
I don't really know what your point is, X. I said the fact that they have an express train from one sector to the sector next door shows us just how big this city is supposed to be, and you seem to be disagreeing with me, and I don't really know why. The express transport on the London transport map you've posted shows express routes out of London to Heathrow. The Bakerloo line from Waterloo to Paddington is not an "express" line, it's just a regular underground line. If the distance between the sector 1 station and the sector 8 station was the distance from Victoria to Heathrow, then it would a) make sense for them to have an express line, and b) mean that Midgar is pretty bloody enormous. Like, the size of London practically. Which is the point I was trying to make.
I don't really know what your point is, X. I said the fact that they have an express train from one sector to the sector next door shows us just how big this city is supposed to be, and you seem to be disagreeing with me, and I don't really know why. The express transport on the London transport map you've posted shows express routes out of London to Heathrow. The Bakerloo line from Waterloo to Paddington is not an "express" line, it's just a regular underground line. If the distance between the sector 1 station and the sector 8 station was the distance from Victoria to Heathrow, then it would a) make sense for them to have an express line, and b) mean that Midgar is pretty bloody enormous. Like, the size of London practically. Which is the point I was trying to make.
ForceStealer
Double Growth
As you observed though, Sector 8 is right next to Sector 1. So if it's an express skip-stop train, they're at the second to last stop, it makes sense that there wouldn't be people on the platform, as they could probably just walk it.
Also I calculate a 0% chance that they put as much thought into this as these posts have been
Also I calculate a 0% chance that they put as much thought into this as these posts have been
X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
@LicoriceAllsorts Not disagreeing with you, just trying to think of reasons why there might not be a lot of people present even when we see that there's an express train running soon, trying to determine where various people are at what points during the teaser trailer when we see that banner, and trying to figure out what type of train Cloud & Co. were riding in on to that platform, since (at least Cloud) was on top of the train, rather than inside it like they are when they go back down to the slums.
@ForceStealer While it is really just aesthetic window trimmings for an electronic banner asset, the train system is something that Jessie explains to Cloud near the start of the game that helps sell the scale & scope of Midgar. With a great deal of Midgar being designed in fairly significant detail for the Remake I'd be willing to bet that some of the mechanics around how the train systems work is likely something that's been actually figured out at least at a basic level.
Even the very first reveal trailer had a quick glimpse of a rail map showing the stops for the trains. Depending on how much time the game is going to give us in and around Midgar, and especially if they're expanding that section out at all, knowing what types of trains run where/when and with what levels of security might be details worth portraying, especially if we're given the ability to use the trains at all, not to mention it's likely that seeing those sorts of assets in the game is going to be part of ensuring that the world itself has a degree of internal consistency.
X
@ForceStealer While it is really just aesthetic window trimmings for an electronic banner asset, the train system is something that Jessie explains to Cloud near the start of the game that helps sell the scale & scope of Midgar. With a great deal of Midgar being designed in fairly significant detail for the Remake I'd be willing to bet that some of the mechanics around how the train systems work is likely something that's been actually figured out at least at a basic level.
Even the very first reveal trailer had a quick glimpse of a rail map showing the stops for the trains. Depending on how much time the game is going to give us in and around Midgar, and especially if they're expanding that section out at all, knowing what types of trains run where/when and with what levels of security might be details worth portraying, especially if we're given the ability to use the trains at all, not to mention it's likely that seeing those sorts of assets in the game is going to be part of ensuring that the world itself has a degree of internal consistency.
X
LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
It's why I'm here. Where else can I get this kind of detailed, quality debate?
ForceStealer
Double Growth
Oh I wasn't decrying that we were having it, just surmising about the devs
Theozilla
Kaiju Member
Interesting bit of trivia I saw earlier today, apparently Jessie's face design is modeled after Roberto Ferrari's wife.
Aranea
Lv. 25 Adventurer
I found this quite interesting. The of the trailer were Cloud has some hallucination might be on Midgar. Someone on Twitter showed this comparison.
pxp
Pro Adventurer
Oh damn I posted this somewhere else, parroting you yet again Theo
- I would add that it definitely is as she confirmed it on her Instagram.Yep, @ChipNoir was mentioning this over the weekend actually. I think it might be spot on.
Edit: This is what Chip wrote at #72 above:
"If my theory is correct, this takes place right after Cloud has his first mental recall in the game about Sephiroth. The setting's weirdly broken pavement is very reminiscent of the road leading to Sector 5 park (Which oh my god, they missed an opportunity to show that here, whyyyy?), and that's where that scene happens.
So I predict that Cloud has a hallucination that melds the reality of where he is with the burning Nibelhiem that he associates so strongly with Sephiroth in the first place ..."
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fancy
pants
- AKA
- Fancy
damn makes sense. I'd still prefer that we heard rather than saw Sephiroth.
I know that everyone knows who he is lmao and that his reveal wouldn't be this big twist... but I'm still hoping for some stellar story telling in this remake and I reckon less is more applies here.
I know that everyone knows who he is lmao and that his reveal wouldn't be this big twist... but I'm still hoping for some stellar story telling in this remake and I reckon less is more applies here.
X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
Also, it's worth showing this again, since we've seen that area specifically depicted in the concept art from back in 2018:
It'll be interesting to see if they do run with this being Cloud experiencing hallucinations from a trigger where he doesn't notice Barret and Tifa with him (and we don't see them in the scene) until he snaps out of it. That could make for a really interesting dynamic when he finally notices that he's seeing Sephiroth, and they ARE still with him.
X
It'll be interesting to see if they do run with this being Cloud experiencing hallucinations from a trigger where he doesn't notice Barret and Tifa with him (and we don't see them in the scene) until he snaps out of it. That could make for a really interesting dynamic when he finally notices that he's seeing Sephiroth, and they ARE still with him.
X