No Sony at E3 2019 = FFVII:R on PS5?

[X-SOLDIER]

So, Sony's out of E3 next year, and that got me wondering about the Remake.

If Sony's staying out of E3, we're almost guaranteed not to be getting Remake news out of E3 either, since both of the earlier trailers ended with, "Play it first on Playstation 4" which is kind of a big deal for that title in regards to Sony. Being that that's the case, IF that also means that we're potentially looking at a situation where this might be a move to both build hype PS5 release in 2020 (like the linked article suggests), does that also mean that one of the potential reasons for the delays and whatnot are around FFVII:R being something that Sony wants as a PS5 launch title, rather than an end-of-lifecycle PS4 title?

Given that Luminous seems to already be working on PS5 content, it stands to reason that SE are already more than aware of when that change to the next console generation is looking to happen, especially in regards to what their planned roadmap for FFVII:R's development cycle would be. If FFVII:R is a multi-part game like we've heard, fragmenting that release over a console generation would be a bad move, since a "complete" package would need to have the earlier versions redeveloped for the then-current-generation console anyway. Plus, it's not like there isn't STRONG precedent for this happening with them already:

• Crisis Core being a launch title for the PSP, but only coming out after the PSP-2000 was released
• FFXIII-Vs having "for PlayStation 3" and then FFXV coming out for the PS4

At this point, it seems more likely than not that KH III is gonna be the final PS4 title that they release, and that they've been holding all the footage of ANY kind back for FFVII:R because they've needed to redevelop everything for another console generation. Showing PS4 footage of a game that's no longer being made for that console doesn't do them any favours since it's not representative of what they'd be making, and they're also legitimately forbidden from showing anything that isn't basically concept art before the console is officially announced. Plus, it's not like SE would have to do anything differently to suddenly go radio-silent on a long-awaited project, so it's not really gonna impact their overall public image.

Either way, there's enough strong circumstantial evidence at this point that it seems like it warranted a thread. At the very least, I think that Sony ditching E3 means that we're even LESS likely to hear anything about the Remake in 2019 than we were already. Even if we do, I think that the event will be Sony-centric enough to draw attention to it well in advance.




X

 

[cold_spirit]

Fair points. A few of my thoughts:

1. Though Sony isn't going to have an E3 presence that doesn't mean they won't hold a press conference/broadcast of their own at that time. Nintendo's been having Directs during E3 week for years. Sony's official wording on the matter implies they have different plans already in the works and I'd wager those plans are meant to compete with E3.
2. In the case of Sony not holding a single game presentation in June of 2019, there's nothing stopping SE from revealing more about the Remake themselves, whether it be at a conference of their own or a trailer drop. The game may be coming first to PlayStation but I'm not convinced Sony has complete control over the game's reveals/advertising.
3. The "Play it first on PlayStation 4" message is also from two trailers each about three years old. Since then CyberConnect2 has left development and even Cloud has been re-designed. I wouldn't say that the Sony partnership is positively still on.

So yeah, to me SE's plans exist independently of Sony's and I wouldn't rule out getting Remake news in 2019.

 

[KiwiPizza]

If Sony's staying out of E3, we're almost guaranteed not to be getting Remake news out of E3 either, since both of the earlier trailers ended with, "Play it first on Playstation 4

Not necessarily, as a third party publisher they should just be able to show it off when they feel like it. Nomura wanted to show off footage at an event in 2017 - that’s not something you’d do if Sony called the shots as you seem to be suggesting.

does that also mean that one of the potential reasons for the delays and whatnot are around FFVII:R being something that Sony wants as a PS5 launch title, rather than an end-of-lifecycle PS4 title?

Delays to what? There’s been no delays to 7:R, and I one truly knows when the PS5 will release - so there’s no delays there either.

STRONG precedent for this happening with them already:

• Crisis Core being a launch title for the PSP, but only coming out after the PSP-2000 was released
• FFXIII-Vs having "for PlayStation 3" and then FFXV coming out for the PS4

Two examples where one was released on the same console announced for and the other which was scrapped. Not exactly the definition of having a strong precedent

At this point, it seems more likely than not that KH III is gonna be the final PS4 title that they release, and that they've been holding all the footage of ANY kind back for FFVII:R because they've needed to redevelop everything for another console generation.

There’s been no footage because their marketing team doesn’t want 7 overshadowing KH3.

Either way, there's enough strong circumstantial evidence at this point that it seems like it warranted a thread

Strong evidence to suggest a PS4 release for 7:R

* Projected increase in income for April 19 - April 20. Repurposing the Remake for next gen would delay the game.

* Releasing their biggest titles year after year KH3 in the 2018 slot (for financial reasons) and 7:R for 2019 - technically can release from April 2019 onwards due to how the financial years work. Latest being April 2020

* It’s 4 years of development next month

Just thought to counteract this to say why the opposite of your post is very possible

 

[Carlie]

Square Enix: See guys you can't be disappointed in us next year if there isn't a conference for us to trample all over your hopes with our incompetence.

 

[CrashOuch]

^ This makes the most sense to me

 

[Tetsujin]

No Sony conference next year is shocking to me. I got nothing to look forward to then D:

If FFVII:R is a multi-part game like we've heard, fragmenting that release over a console generation would be a bad move, since a "complete" package would need to have the earlier versions redeveloped for the then-current-generation console anyway.

Unless PS5 is backwards compatible to PS4 which it really should be. Baffling to me still that PS4 has no BC whatsoever. Xbox One has a BC program and it seems pretty neat too. Sony needs to get on that.
Alternatively, SE does an MGSV and releases VIIR as a multi-gen game.

Eitherway though, this whole thing is kinda frustrating after the PSX'15 trailer falsely got us thinking the remake might be further along than we thought...

 

[X-SOLDIER]

@KiwiPizza & @cold_spirit – Gonna respond in bulk to the both of ya's:

As a third-party publisher, SE absolutely COULD show off anything that they wanted for an in-development PS4 game. They're definitely not wholly tied to Sony – but the Remake was announced at Sony's Conference for E3 2015, and the only real footage of the game was shown at the PlayStation Experience in 2015. That along with the fact that it was announced as coming to a Sony console first means that they almost certainly have some sort of relationship with Sony on the project in general. If they shifted to development for the PS5 – they couldn't officially talk about it or really show things from it.

That close relationship with Sony means that they've got an ear to the ground about when to expect the PlayStation 5 (like it seems that they do). With that sort of information, they'd be considering those plans as a part of looking over their long-term development roadmap – which is going to be LARGE for the totality of the Remake. If that's the case even phrases like, "It was announced too early" start to make more sense in terms of a multi-part game's overall planning, release, and development when the game ITSELF seems to've had big chunks of content ready for the last 3 years... but with nothing actually shown since then.

Don't get me wrong, initially with the way that FFXV's now-scrapped DLC was planned to release and drop near the same time as KHIII to clear out the rest of their 2019, it still seemed very plausible that they could be making space for FFVII:R. I'd even noted the space clearing in their original plans back when they were announced... However, if the new AAA title from Luminous is for PS5 like that post seems to indicate – that changes things. We know that they moved all of their resources off of the other FFXV DLC content to focus on that, which was significant enough that Tabata left the company. That's a big deal, and speaks to powers moving higher than just his development studio and even his overwhelming successes with FFXV.

Mostly what I'm looking at here is the intersections of the trends of SE's radio silence since 2015, Sony backing out of E3 for 2019, and Luminous' recent visible shifts in content development that seem to be centered around the PS5.

• If SE were gonna commit to dropping the big Remake bomb again, E3 would be the platform to follow-up on because all eyes are on Sony for it every year since 2015, and they know that they get extra wide attention there.
• Without anything big or different from last year, Sony doesn't have much to gain from E3, whereas even just with FFVII:R alone, they'd make an impact worth staying for. Backing out, or scheduling an event solely under their control makes sense.
• All of FFXV's recent developments are the most in-depth look we've got at SE's motivations at a company-level for where they're placing development talent and focus, which seems to be on the PS5, and they're looking to wrap FFXV earlier than expected – basically just before and just after Kingdom Hearts III releases. Comrades' standalone is happening, but the ACTIVE lifecycle support for raid bosses and other things isn't there, and that would make sense if they're trying to limit development effort and maintenance of a previous platform. This is all connected to something that Tabata was willing to flat-out leave the company over, which makes it clear that these are part of REALLY BIG shifts that he couldn't push against. I'd wager that he didn't want to let FFXV go by the wayside, but SE weren't willing to keep those resources invested in a console generation that they knew would be on the way out AND they didn't want to split to do double development, which would probably have involved moving FFXV over to the PS5 if he could do what he wanted.

Again, it's all HIGHLY speculative – but working in software development, they're the types of trends that don't feel just coincidentally connected when you line them up together.




X

 

[Shademp]

If Square is planning to move FFVII:R to the PS5 then I better hope they've been guaranteed some of the new console's specs by this point. If the PS5 ends up with a way different architecture and different software support, porting all the PS4 FFVII:R content to the PS5 is going to be a nightmare.

 

[Claymore]

Spooky, since we were just discussing this in the Hopes For The Remake Thread a couple of weeks ago. With this latest news, it definitely seems even more likely that Remake is heading for PS5.

 

[ForceStealer]

Now that the consoles really are jsut straight up PCs with no strange architecture, there's no reason for them not to be BC anymore. So I would imagine PS5 will play PS4 games at least.

 

[Theozilla]

https://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2018/11/16/playstation-5-release-date-psvr-2-anthem-delay/

The confirmation of this seemingly bizarre rumor made us take a close look at the Reddit user who posted the original leak. RuthenicCookie has been quite active, dropping information about the PS5 release date, PSVR 2, and even a potential Anthem delay. If you don’t want to sift through all of the user’s comments yourself, we’ve compiled them here for you.

Interesting article relevant to the topic. According to the rumor late PS4 games will apparently also be on the PS5, including titles like Death Stranding, The Last of Us Part II, and Ghost of Tsushima. Essentially dual platform releases like Breath of the Wild and Metal Gear Solid V.

I can see the FFVII Remake following this format as well, at least for the first installment/part.

 

[KiwiPizza]

Eitherway though, this whole thing is kinda frustrating after the PSX'15 trailer falsely got us thinking the remake might be further along than we thought

Not really since we’ve known from before then that it had only been in development for a year when that PSX trailer was shown

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...tasy-7s-remake-wont-lose-so-much-of-the-crazy

It’s creeping upto 4 years now

 

[X-SOLDIER]

@Theozilla It REALLY feels like Sony knows that they have a bunch of FUCKING AWESOME exclusives, and they're getting to the end of the PS4's lifecycle, and they want to keep their good faith and make sure that PS4 owners get access to them, but that they can also help with the launch of the PS5, but that ALSO leaves me wondering about how much of the games will be taking advantage of the PS5 that might not translate the same way back to the PS4 version. Will it just be a graphical difference like you already get between the PS4 & PS4 Pro, or will it be a more significant feature-level difference like what happened with Shadow of Mordor's PS3/PS4 versions?



X

 

[Geostigma]

Now that the consoles really are jsut straight up PCs with no strange architecture, there's no reason for them not to be BC anymore. So I would imagine PS5 will play PS4 games at least.

Playstation Now would like to have a word with you. I agree that when it comes to hardware there is no reason for BC to not be a thing, but the cynic in me really feels like PSNow gets/will get in the way of that in the future.

To add to X's point about Sony and SE being closely related and thus SE probably knowing how soon a PS5 may be coming.

Are we gonna act like it wasn't announced like a year ago that PS5 Dev kits were sent out to devs? lol, IIRC generally speaking after that type of article hits the new consoles generally come out like 2-3 years later.

Needless to say if Sony is sending out kits to companies like SE, then ofcourse they have a pretty good idea of what to work with. It's not like these companies work blind until the console makers announce something at E3 lol.

I'd argue even if SE wasn't as close to Sony as they are they would still know what to start scheduling in terms of development and what to develop it on.

 

[Claymore]

https://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2018/11/16/playstation-5-release-date-psvr-2-anthem-delay/


Interesting article relevant to the topic. According to the rumor late PS4 games will apparently also be on the PS5, including titles like Death Stranding, The Last of Us Part II, and Ghost of Tsushima. Essentially dual platform releases like Breath of the Wild and Metal Gear Solid V.

I can see the FFVII Remake following this format as well, at least for the first installment/part.

The problem is, the VII: Remake is an entirely unique beast. Will they really release the first part / installment of what is essentially one game split apart, across different console generations? If they do, they anger a large segment of fans who are then forced to make the transition over to the PS5 for the subsequent releases.

Or are we honestly saying here that we expect them to continue releasing a PS4 version - alongside the PS5 - whenever the latter installments of the Remake are released?

Or of course they could just go for the easiest option and just release it on the PS5.

Who knows. But this is SE though. I feel like they need to be very careful on this subject, and they could potentially screw this up big time.

 

[Defeatable]

This is EXACTLY what I feared might happen. SE bumbles around SO MUCH that by the time Part 1 is finished the PS5 is almost ready to drop. And even if Part 1 is done, are they really going to release the first part on PS4 only to have to drop the other two parts on PS5? How awkward would that look? Maybe 2023 wasn't so far-fetched an estimate after all :/

 

[KiwiPizza]

This is EXACTLY what I feared might happen. SE bumbles around SO MUCH that by the time Part 1 is finished the PS5 is almost ready to drop. And even if Part 1 is done, are they really going to release the first part on PS4 only to have to drop the other two parts on PS5? How awkward would that look? Maybe 2023 wasn't so far-fetched an estimate after all :/

They haven’t bumbled though. It’s bern a perfectly normal development cycle so far.

When they began development 4 years ago, the PS5 wasn’t even in Sony’s thoughts. I don’t even think the PS4 Pro was.

Not there fault they decided to make the remake and then near the end of a perfectly acceptable dev cycle that the PS5 is ready to launch.

No bumbling there at all. Everytime I see people mention that, it drives me nuts.

They announced the Remake 6 months into development, saying it’s taking too long is absurd especially when it’s been mentioned how games, such as God Of War, that came out this year took 4-5 years to make.

They wouldn’t be bumbling through the game if aspects of the Remake were further ahead than KH3 last year so they are probably finished since those same aspects in KH3 are done as it’s nearing Gold Status

The voice acting for the main story is finished too, and for a few years too. Hardly bumbling through the game.

 

[Geostigma]

They haven’t bumbled though. It’s bern a perfectly normal development cycle so far.

When they began development 4 years ago, the PS5 wasn’t even in Sony’s thoughts. I don’t even think the PS4 Pro was.

I'm sorry but you have some serious misunderstandings in regards to the development cycle of these products. The R&D for these things don't happen overnight neither do the deals in place for the manufactures to start setting up the proposed specs of a console. Let alone actual resource allocation and production lol.

How long do you think it actually takes to make these products? It's not the same as just going to pcpartpicker lol.



I was gonna multiquote the rest of your post but I just cba.

You can't call a game that has had a development team axed as going along smoothly. And secondly comparing it to God of War is beyond silly lol, I don't recall Mr. Barlog hitting us up to reassure us the game isn't a mess frequently, they just showed us the goods when they were ready and got back to work.



"
Not there fault they decided to make the remake and then near the end of a perfectly acceptable dev cycle that the PS5 is ready to launch.

"

FF7R was announced 2 years into the PS4 life cycle, and conservative assumptions for a PS5 release put it at around 2020. How is it not bumbling if they can't manage to release 1 game with the same circumstances other developers deal with while actually developing games from scratch and not having a wealth of lore, scripts and storyboards to base work on mind you.

 

[ChipNoir]

You guys act like this is new territory for Square. They've released games incredably late into each console life cycle, and they've cross-platformed the fuck out of the KH franchise. They don't really seem to care because so far we've all just gone right along with it.

So I'm in the camp that can totally see part one being for PS4 and the later parts coming out for the PS5. It's just going to be an expectation that the majority of gamers will jump on the PS5 just like everyone jumps onto each new console generation at some point.

What I don't expect is them trying to make the most of the PS5 out of the bat. It's probably going to be the exact same build as the PS4, but with whatever upressing features the PS5 can pack, much like Persona 5 being on the PS3 and PS4. As for the "But what if people just buy part II?" well, we've seen how much they really care about that with Kingdom Hearts. Either you get on board at station A or Station B, Square doesn't give a crap either way as long as they have your money.

 

[KiwiPizza]

I'm sorry but you have some serious misunderstandings in regards to the development cycle of these products. The R&D for these things don't happen overnight neither do the deals in place for the manufactures to start setting up the proposed specs of a console. Let alone actual resource allocation and production lol.

How long do you think it actually takes to make these products? It's not the same as just going to pcpartpicker lol.



I was gonna multiquote the rest of your post but I just cba.

You can't call a game that has had a development team axed as going along smoothly. And secondly comparing it to God of War is beyond silly lol, I don't recall Mr. Barlog hitting us up to reassure us the game isn't a mess frequently, they just showed us the goods when they were ready and got back to work.



"
Not there fault they decided to make the remake and then near the end of a perfectly acceptable dev cycle that the PS5 is ready to launch.

"

FF7R was announced 2 years into the PS4 life cycle, and conservative assumptions for a PS5 release put it at around 2020. How is it not bumbling if they can't manage to release 1 game with the same circumstances other developers deal with while actually developing games from scratch and not having a wealth of lore, scripts and storyboards to base work on mind you.

It can be compared to God Of War. As they would’ve had to do the same processes as 7:R, God Of War had a lot to work off to as it’s the 4th in the series.

As I said Development is nearing 4 years, that’s no where near bumbling... you also have to take into account the original game spans an entire planet and there’s a lot of work to turn it into a PS4 quality game as well as adding to the existing story. Splitting it into multiple parts which themselves are the size of AAA games should also demonstrate the size of the project to you.

It doesn’t help that Nomura wants to show off the game but Marketing are prioritizing Kingdom Hearts 3 and aren’t allowing Nomura to show things off. A journalist saw the footage and was blown away...

There’s also no obligation for Square Enix to show off footage to the public.

Do you have any recent examples of games the size of the Remake that have come out recently in less time than the current length of development?

I also guess Capcom have “bumbled through” RE2 despite that releasing in normal dev time


No one could really have predicted the release year of the PS5 when 7:R started development in 2014 either.

 

[KiwiPizza]

You guys act like this is new territory for Square. They've released games incredably late into each console life cycle, and they've cross-platformed the fuck out of the KH franchise. They don't really seem to care because so far we've all just gone right along with it.

I myself have said that Part 1 will likely get a remaster or port on PS5.

They did it with X/X-2 HD, remastering it on both PS3 and PS4... they’ll do it again...

What people can’t say is that they’re dragging their heels or “bumbling through” dev for 7:R

 

[ChipNoir]

What I wouldn't give for ten minutes with that journalist.

 

[Claymore]

You guys act like this is new territory for Square. They've released games incredably late into each console life cycle, and they've cross-platformed the fuck out of the KH franchise. They don't really seem to care because so far we've all just gone right along with it.

So I'm in the camp that can totally see part one being for PS4 and the later parts coming out for the PS5. It's just going to be an expectation that the majority of gamers will jump on the PS5 just like everyone jumps onto each new console generation at some point.

I don't believe that KH is an accurate depiction to make here. It is separate self-contained games, developed years apart, and released across different gaming platforms - where none of your save states carries over. The VII:Remake (if we are working on the premise of a PS4 to PS5 transition) is a remake of a single RPG game, broken down into manageable installments, and spread across different console generations. This isn't a standalone 'Remaster' simply making the jump to a newer generation for sales. As far as I'm aware, this is completely new territory that hasn't been done within the gaming industry before.

Continuing with the PS4-PS5 line of thought, there would first need to be a workable save file from one to the other. Again, this is something that has not been done before (not saying it can't be done with whatever the PS5 architecture will be, I'm just reiterating how this is new territory here). Then there's the fact that having only the second game in (not even a series as you can't accurately call it that, expansion? installment? episode? part? .... whatever you want to call it) on the PS5 is jarring.

So, let's go with the notion that some players will only get onboard from Part 2. So then, there would need to be a component to allow you to start from Level 1 from what is encompassed within Part 2. This would effectively put anyone at a distinct disadvantage on the level design and enemy encounters in Part 2 for those who didn't play Part 1. Maybe there would be level-scaling to compensate for this - which has never been done well in a game before. And there would certainly be an uproar if each part of VII:Remake was a zero hour / blank slate which reverted you back to Level 1, as again, these aren't standalone games, this is the first 'part' of a complete singular RPG game.

And what about world interaction? If starting from Part 2, will there be interactions that simply won't have played a part if you jump on board at this time? One off materia that you could effectively go back for in Part 5 which will be completely open-world and freedom to return to other areas? What about if they made it so that you encountered Yuffie or Vincent within Part 1? How would this work with a Part 2 new game scenario? Would there be lots of different conversation trees and dialogue options arranged? Would they dare do a Mass Effect and have a 'select your past' menu which allows you to quickly fill in the blanks before starting Part 2?

I remember vaguely discussing these very issues with Tres and Shademp about their notion of a VII sequel RPG that somehow allowed you to continue your save states from the original game ... and all the headaches that came with that. Been wracking my brains, aside from the aforementioned Mass Effect which itself is self-contained and doesn't carry over all your equipment, inventory and anything else ... the only thing that comes close is RE: Revelations 2. That game was designed specifically to be as 'episodes', where your save state would continue on to the next with everything you carried. But that's not even close to what we'd be expecting here. Though the game has been released on other platforms, there's no way for you to transfer a save state over to another, and again, with the VII:Remake, we're talking about cross-generational platforms here.

Heck, maybe the PS5 will surprise us all and be backwards compatible, minimising many of these issues. But with PS Now, Remasters, and the complete lack of it this generation, I wouldn't hold my breath.

There is a lot to factor in here when considering the notion of a cross-generational leap ... which is why it has never been done before with an RPG. And heck, this is just the notion of a PS4-PS5 transition. We haven't even begun to touch on if the VII:Remake will be cross-generational and multi-platform, possibly being made available on the newest Xbox or Switch 2.0. Or even if there will be a concurrent PS4 version alongside a PS5 version with each installment, and how that would be handled.

The Pro was a stop-gap, we are at the end of the PS4's lifecycle, despite how amazingly well it has done this past generation. The more I think about it, the more I simply can't see any reason for SE to bend over backwards in implementing Part 1 on the PS4 at this point, and then switching over to PS5. Like you said, as long as they have our money they don't care - so why would they go through all this trouble? I just can no longer see the VII:Remake on the PS4.

Not saying I'm right. Maybe I'm wrong and they will go the 200% extra mile to ensure that this is all workable. Maybe the game is further along than anyone realises and it will be released on the PS4. Maybe Sony haven't got a say in any of this and won't be pushing for it to be on the PS5. Maybe Sony's non-presence at E3 isn't because of a massive announcement about a new console generation that could overshadow everything. Maybe. But that's a lot of maybes here.

 

[Roger]

Like you said, as long as they have our money they don't care - so why would they go through all this trouble? I just can no longer see the VII:Remake on the PS4.

No one has a PS5 yet, millions of people that want to play the Remake won't come up with $500 or whatever to play it right away. There's no financial gain for SE to refuse to have it on the PS4 after having announced it for the PS4.

 

[Tashasaurous]

I'm with you on that one Claymore. Unlike other Remakes of Final Fantasy they've done, Square's putting in several new things and the gameplay is(Or was at this point) similar to that of Final Fantasy XV's gameplay. Plus with only three years of development that's been put on hold in favor for KH3 and not much of FFVII Remake news since it was announced almost four years ago, I'm betting that, with PS5 becoming announced soon and we're drawing into the end of the PS4 life cycle, the timing will be rushed if they try and put at least part 1 onto PS4 which will make the first Part of the Remake most likely very terrible.

Not saying that Nomura's timing in things is crash hot and, well...with so many things he had to do, but I'm willing to bet that in order to have more time to make sure the first part doesn't end up being faulty and stuff like that like other rushed games end up, it's probably a better idea to cancel the PS4 release and put onto PS5 as one of the very first titles for the Console, but at the same time, not take another decade just to make it like Nomura did with FFXV when it was Versus XIII until he was kicked out of the Director's job and the whole thing had to be redone by Tabata(and look where it got him now).

Heck, at this point, I don't think even Last of Us Part 2 will be on PS4 and that's not even a Square Enix made game.

Another thing, Minato, it's happened before with FF Versus XIII, so I doubt it won't happen again with a few other future games in decades to come.