Official Complaint Thread

[CK]

I'd like to register a complaint about my chronic back pain

My back is killing me too. Need to see one of those back fixer people.

 

[Cthulhu]

"Basically, they're too insular. they frequently engage in groupthink and don't listen to dissenting opinions. They've already decided on how they're going to run the forum and nothing much is going to change their opinion on how to do so even when it's apparent to those outside the group that certain approaches to running the board aren't working."

Examples? Over the past few months, the only real examples I've seen of these approaches are the drama involving a number of members ganging up on Mog by overreacting, and perhaps the spam forum, which failed. What other things have we been doing wrong, then?

"Simply put...would they even listen? The answer is no =/ They'd call it a personal attack."

That's because the one public dissent thingy I can remember that actually left an impression on me was a personal attack, aimed at one particular person, his decision on a matter, and how he chose to handle it. Do correct me if I'm wrong about that though, and please point out to the instances where a complaint was seen as a personal attack, preferably the ones that weren't a personal attack.

"It takes a ton of debate to even get the smallest suggestion implemented - see the shoutbox fiasco."

"Also it often seems as though everyone just does whatever Mako says. The shoutbox thread doesn't make that seem any less likely."

Well yeah, . But that's because #1 we were unable to see the point in the shoutbox, and #2 Mako is right.

"Tetsujin never does anything, for starters."

"About all that I've ever seen Tet do is agree with Yop or Mako when they say something about getting on topic or stop flaming, etc"

"Nor does he heed any requests by members AT ALL."

Well, that's because he (seems to) prefer to work in the background. You don't like Mog for saying something, you don't like Tets for not saying anything. I've checked the mod log, he's mainly involved in deleting spambot things.

Spoiler

2500	Tetsujin	12:42, 19th Oct 2009	Thread Soft Deleted	Thread: [Demagogic demands8] 
Forum: [RPG]
2499	Tetsujin	12:42, 19th Oct 2009	Thread Soft Deleted	Thread: [Demagogic demands5] 
Forum: [Freestyle RP]
2498	Tetsujin	12:42, 19th Oct 2009	Thread Soft Deleted	Thread: [Demagogic demands15] 
Forum: [Creativity]
2474	Tetsujin	12:40, 13th Oct 2009	Post by cifriflad Soft Deleted	Post: [Untitled] 
Thread: [Final Fantasy VII Crisis Core Secret Ending?] 
Forum: [Crisis Core]
2459	Tetsujin	19:50, 5th Oct 2009	Thread Soft Deleted	Thread: [afqqw] 
Forum: [Freestyle RP]
2460	Tetsujin	19:50, 5th Oct 2009	Thread Soft Deleted	Thread: [dd] 
Forum: [RPG]
2435	Tetsujin	12:01, 3rd Oct 2009	Thread Soft Deleted	Thread: [Egoodbody34] 
Forum: [Advent Children]	
2434	Tetsujin	12:01, 3rd Oct 2009	Thread Soft Deleted	Thread: [Egoodbody50] 
Forum: [RP Battle]
2436	Tetsujin	12:01, 3rd Oct 2009	Thread Soft Deleted	Thread: [Egoodbody29] 
Forum: [RP General]
2437	Tetsujin	12:01, 3rd Oct 2009	Thread Soft Deleted	Thread: [Egoodbody50] 
Forum: [Before Crisis]	
2438	Tetsujin	12:01, 3rd Oct 2009	Thread Soft Deleted	Thread: [Egoodbody27] 
Forum: [Clubs]	
2439	Tetsujin	12:01, 3rd Oct 2009	Thread Soft Deleted	Thread: [Egoodbody35] 
Forum: [Creativity]	84.134.247.188
2440	Tetsujin	12:01, 3rd Oct 2009	Thread Soft Deleted	Thread: [Egoodbody36] 
Forum: [Freestyle RP]
2441	Tetsujin	12:01, 3rd Oct 2009	Thread Soft Deleted	Thread: [Egoodbody34] 
Forum: [RPG]

"Schala-Kitty hasn't even logged in since the vB upgrade."

Yeah, we were going to remove her, but thanks for reminding us . I think someone tried to contact her without much success.

"Ryu, well...Ryu actually incites a lot of the shit that happens, by virtue of his very nature. Once people start arguing, he's more condescending than even MOG. It may be unintentional, but there's no way someone who cultivates this big intellectual image of himself doesn't know how he's coming across."

"Yeah that whole thing with Bahamut Zero was largely his fault. Granted, that cunt brought a lot of it on himself by overreacting ridiculously, but Ryu was the first one to flame."

Oh? I didn't notice - but perhaps that's also because there wasn't a big drama surrounding it. That, or that's ages ago - I don't even remember whoever Bahamut Zero is / was, for instance. Remind me plx <3.

I've got nothing on Yop

Cunt!

"The whole rule system is too damn complicated and they never enforce them consistently. I'd say throw the whole thing away and replace it with 'Are user's posting habits disruptive to the flow of the community? If so then b&'."

Oh? Oh. We tried to keep them simple back when (and the base rules are, iirc), but I guess they grew a bit. A bit too much, perhaps? They have to be clear and to the point, of course, but not so they become too generic - I mean, posting kiddie pron isn't disruptive to the flow of the community per sé, it's just vile and whatnot. Same with spamming around - it's fun / funny, not disrupting to the flow. The summary you posted is probably done quickly, but do you see my point?

I thought the rules were clear and to the point, but I guess they're not, and that we'll need to do a review of them one of these days.

"Basically staff don't do a very good job of setting an example. The rules they enforce on others aren't even close to uniformly enforced."

Yeah, but as I indicated before - do you want us to be too lenient, too tight (nazi-like), or find a balance between the two, where people that have a low reputation (which might be different depending on your point of view) are more likely to get warned - especially if they have a reputation - while people with a high reputation (like Dacon's, who flames like crazy but iirc has hardly been warned for that - which has to be fixed, btw) often get away with such things. Which of the three would you prefer?

There was a bit about being on the fence as to how FF-related they wanted things vs. general community aspect, but I can't find it for the life of me.

Yeah, that's because we like the site to have focus - and we have since day 1 -, and not grow out to be Just Another Fansite That's Hardly About Its Main Subject. Of course, we've already passed that level, considering the general chat section has more posts than the FF-related sections combined. Don't get me wrong - I like general chat and whatnot - but I don't think we should let it get out of hand, or let it become the focus of the site - because it's not. If we let it, we'll become Yet Another General Chat forum, fail to differentiate ourselves from other Yet Another General Chat forums, and sink into demise.

But, as a reaching out kinda thing - what would you like to see done, then? And don't say spam, we tried that (or, that's how I see it), and it failed.

Also, quick note - I usually don't see Force Stealer or X-Soldier about =/

Well, they're involved in staff chats about going issues, but ForceStealer hasn't done much in terms of moderating lately (besides editing some post and moving a thread or two). Not sure if it was necessary though. X has been closing and sticking some threads, but nothing very prolific either - which'll make him a background moderator, really, but not one that isn't considered inactive etc.

and so far we've mostly put on the table as a whole are quick fixes.

Yeah, but to be fair, that's what the members asked for, and asked for with vehemence for many times. Recently we've finally been having / receiving some good ideas other than said quick fixes that seem really well - and I'm all up for focusing on the latter category and, more importantly perhaps, having the members come up with them and (gasp!) running / implementing them. This goes to all of you - we only run the forums, we rely on you (for a part) to come up with ideas on improving them further. I know that people usually expect The Higher-Ups to decide what's best for them (also so they can yell at them and complain if it's not done properly or at all, ), but some more initiative for proper ideas is very welcome. And as Mog stated, it doesn't have to be Yet Another Section or a feature like a shoutbox or clubs or a drawing competition or what-have-you.

...Or as Mog summarized,

The members need to look at themselves instead of constantly passing the buck to Staff

-Some of you need to lay off the LTD thread and spread some of the activity in other places. It ain't that interesting.

...OH FUCK YOU, YOU'RE FUCKING FIRED, WHAT THE FUCK!

There's no need to get defensive. This is a place for people to air grievances, and (in theory) to create some reflection on everyone's pat so that everything can be worked out agreeably. No one's attacking you or anyone else. Deep breath.

Yeah, but he's been attacked directly before, so I can get why he would feel attacked (and the need to be defensive). Really, I think he's been acting pretty level-headed, considering how he's been treated earlier - if this was ACF, I'm sure there'd be people that got banned and people that got fired over it, .

Yes, I am not too satisfied with the Rules nor how they've been enforced. I think they need to be reworked entirely.

Again? . Didn't the memberbase in general read them over and agree to them when the latest version was put up a few months ago? In my book (but correct me if I'm wrong), this means that nobody's got a problem with them, and is glad to conform to them .

In all fairness, they are much more interesting than the LTD thread

Yeah, and it's this that made ACF as drama-infested as it was, . The last... year or so, I only went there to disagree and argue and whatnot, and that too quit when finally it started to have a bit of a decent staff that both the (audible, opinionated) memberbase and the higher-ups could agree with.

And put the database errors in another thread please, they're off-topic and don't really belong here . Of course, they kill activity and whatnot, but that's not directly related to this topic, imo.

And quit spamming in here if you want us to take your complaints seriously, kthx.

 

[CK]

I've never even seen these so-called rules. Not like they mean much to me anyway.

 

[Dashell]

Does it like a pop up window? Because i've been getting it when I quote people every now and then.

And you guys are two months too late for me to give a damn about this forum. I deeply regret paying for half (or maybe more) of the VB license. Maybe if the forum picks up again I might care again but I refuse to help any more with this site.

So... what do you feel is so wrong with this place if I may ask?

 

[CK]

So... what do you feel is so wrong with this place if I may ask?

Well considering how much money I donated to help better the forums I would've thought at least they'd at least let me in on some of the decision making to do with the forums (as that's what I donated the money to, I couldn't care less about the front page). I never demanded that they let me make decisions and that my word was law or anything but you would think after giving such a generous contribution i'd get more than a simple thank you and a gold username right?

There are more reasons but they've mainly been said already. And I blame TLS for mine and alex's back pains.

 

[Cthulhu]

Well, the conditions on donating pretty much stated that no rights or special treatment should be expected for donators, really. You could've just said what you expected when you donated 'n all.

Of course, we're listening to you all the time, so What Do You Want?

 

[Dashell]

Well considering how much money I donated to help better the forums I would've thought at least they'd at least let me in on some of the decision making to do with the forums (as that's what I donated the money to, I couldn't care less about the front page). I never demanded that they let me make decisions and that my word was law or anything but you would think after giving such a generous contribution i'd get more than a simple thank you and a gold username right?

There are more reasons but they've mainly been said already. And I blame TLS for mine and alex's back pains.

Then you wouldn't be "donating" now would you?

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Well considering how much money I donated to help better the forums I would've thought at least they'd at least let me in on some of the decision making to do with the forums (as that's what I donated the money to, I couldn't care less about the front page). I never demanded that they let me make decisions and that my word was law or anything but you would think after giving such a generous contribution i'd get more than a simple thank you and a gold username right?

Then it isn't a donation anymore.

 

[Dashell]

Then it isn't a donation anymore.

I said it first

 

[Joker]

Well considering how much money I donated to help better the forums I would've thought at least they'd at least let me in on some of the decision making to do with the forums (as that's what I donated the money to, I couldn't care less about the front page). I never demanded that they let me make decisions and that my word was law or anything but you would think after giving such a generous contribution i'd get more than a simple thank you and a gold username right?

I think it's more the bolded bits. I get that a donation's a donation, but tbh, I'd feel the same way if I were in his shoes. He's not once asked to be the CEO or run anything, but if I'd paid that kind of money, I'd be pretty put out, too, considering all the other things you can do with it.

But that's just this reporter's opinion. None of my business, rly, so that's my two cents. No response necessary, pls.

 

[CK]

Well, the conditions on donating pretty much stated that no rights or special treatment should be expected for donators, really. You could've just said what you expected when you donated 'n all.

Of course, we're listening to you all the time, so What Do You Want?

I don't think those conditions were up when I did donate as it was before we even got vbulletin ofc.

And I don't know what I want for here any more. I would've been able to answer that question two months ago but now that I've lost interest in this forum I got no idea. And besides FCF (soon to have a name change) is starting to kick off again so my time would be more well spent there than a forum with a focus on a Compilation I don't like.

 

[CK]

I think it's more the bolded bits. I get that a donation's a donation, but tbh, I'd feel the same way if I were in his shoes. He's not once asked to be the CEO or run anything, but if I'd paid that kind of money, I'd be pretty put out, too, considering all the other things you can do with it.

But that's just this reporter's opinion. None of my business, rly, so that's my two cents. No response necessary, pls.

I could've spent it on weed you fuckers. But yeah what megs said sums it up.

 

[Dashell]

Be that as it may, you don't donate to get something in return. It's no longer a donation at that point.

 

[Cat Rage Room]

I would've been able to answer that question two months ago but now that I've lost interest in this forum I got no idea. And besides FCF (soon to have a name change) is starting to kick off again so my time would be more well spent there than a forum with a focus on a Compilation I don't like.

I have to respect you for being up front. I also have to respect your unwillingness to want to alter the course in a forum/community when you are no longer interested in the main subject matter of said forum/community.

 

[CK]

I have to respect you for being up front. I also have to respect your unwillingness to want to alter the course in a forum/community when you are no longer interested in the main subject matter of said forum/community.

Well plain and simple this is and should always be a FF7 forum. Trying to change that won't do the site any favours. I put money into this site and just because I don't care any more doesn't mean I want it to shrivel up and die. I just hope you guys and the community, the ones who actually give a fuck about the Compilation (because the only people I really see that are coming up with ideas are the ones who don't) get your heads together and start thinking of ways to prevent that from happening.

 

[Dashell]

Who said it was going to change from an FFVII site?

 

[CK]

No one. And I don't think I was implying that anyone did.

 

[Dawnbreaker]

Are we still taking comments/complaints/suggestions/nudes? lol

I'm going to do something probably unpopular and make comments on both staff and members. Yeah, it's really a combination of the two causing all the mess, which as far as I can tell, isn't even THAT bad. I've seen it much worse at other places. That said, it has the possiblity of getting bad so I suppose that's where this formed from.

Staff

A couple of things. I'm glad you're gonna be ditching Schala-Kitty as she has quite effectively done absolutely nothing. The thing is she should have been booted AGES ago. I remember it being brought up months ago and a staffer or two said 'she logged in once and told us she was gonna be active'. Yet months and months later she's not and nobody on staff ever fixed it despite throwing Geo off staff within a month of inactivity. SHIT.

Warnings, warnings, warnings. I got a warning, fair enough, I earned it. But I've seen lots of shit go down that also earned it and I suspect (yes, because members don't even get to see if others are warned so we have to take you at your word, which I do doubt, yes) that in many cases they did not. It also seems like whoever you're afraid will throw a hissy fit won't get warned and anyone who don't give a shit ends up with one. SHIT.

Mog. No wait, everything's pretty much been said about that, I just happen to agree that he's long since gone through his chances and it's makes me wonder who he's befriended in staff that's high up. He seems to be better now, even though he should have been tossed ages ago, but oh well, your call.

Edit: Oh, a point...why did I "soft-warned" for double-posting ONCE when Mog does it ALL THE FUCKING TIME? Talk about inconsistency. Yeah, that sounds like a whininy from me but keep in mind this thread was made to air grievances, and it's to add to the point of not every mod following the rules.

But I do have to say that the staff's good in its ways. They implemented many suggestions against their better judgement for the enjoyment of the members. They deal with spam, adbots, etc. with great efficiency. Some of them lazy cunts, but most of them are busy with doing stuff, so you can't fault most of them there.

Members

You tell the staff to chill, but take a chill pill yourself. It's a damn forum after all. If you're that pissy with it, leave it. I'm not saying that your opinion doesn't count but the best way to hurt a forum is to leave it, yrly. The less active a forum is the worse it is, and the more likely it's to fail. So while I agree that complaints are good to make if you're making the same goddamn complaint every single week WITH scathing insults don't you realize that it's a waste of time? In a forum I don't care for I generally post only when I'm arsed to and throw a complaint (or comment) or two around if I find something interesting. But otherwise I cause the greatest form of suffering to it by simply denying it the one thing it wants--activity. And when the staff finds the place dead they might be forced to rethink their stratgey.

Also, stop being dicks, those of you that are. No, you don't need to be all sunshine and shit but going around and trashing everthing within sight is NOT likely to cause the staff to pay attention, but rather to throw out warnings and call the situation hopeless. The best sort of dissenters are the ones that keep themselves annoying without degenerating into downright stupidity. You want to see changes? Make the points and make them well, civilly but smartly.

Now that I've said all that I half expect a dozen warnings and a dozen flames. Oh well, send in the calvary! lol

 

[Cat Rage Room]

Mog. No wait, everything's pretty much been said about that, I just happen to agree that he's long since gone through his chances and it's makes me wonder who he's befriended in staff that's high up. He seems to be better now, even though he should have been tossed ages ago, but oh well, your call.

I'm not addressing this towards you, and I'm respecting your right to complain, but I don't even know myself anymore what I've done that's so bad that I needed to have been booted a while ago. I'm starting to think that this is a bandwagon sort of thing going on here.

It's difficult for anyone, me included, to 'improve' if all I get in the way of criticism is "MOG=BAD". That's not really a lot to work with!

 

[Cthulhu]

A couple of things. I'm glad you're gonna be ditching Schala-Kitty as she has quite effectively done absolutely nothing. The thing is she should have been booted AGES ago. I remember it being brought up months ago and a staffer or two said 'she logged in once and told us she was gonna be active'. Yet months and months later she's not and nobody on staff ever fixed it despite throwing Geo off staff within a month of inactivity. SHIT.

Thanks for the reminder, we had already decided to give her the boot (finally), but forgot about it I guess. This is in part due to not paying attention to things like that - and that, at least imo, we don't have a big problem with inactive staff.

Edit: Oh, a point...why did I "soft-warned" for double-posting ONCE when Mog does it ALL THE FUCKING TIME? Talk about inconsistency. Yeah, that sounds like a whininy from me but keep in mind this thread was made to air grievances, and it's to add to the point of not every mod following the rules.

That isn't actually policy around here, unless it's really really bad. Whoever did that probably didn't pay attention, .

Now that I've said all that I half expect a dozen warnings and a dozen flames. Oh well, send in the calvary! lol

...no u.

 

[Username]

Is there a staff section on TLS? i don't get any clue that the staff have discussed or have made joint decisions on things, i think it would be nice if, in general, all staff members could come across more united with decisions.

I liked that on ACF staff would be equal and discuss ideas, and come to a agreement on it. On here it seems the admins make the decisions how and when they want. I know u probably won't listen to me, but when something new is going to be introduced to the forum, it would be cool to see most of the staff posting why it is going to be introduced, this would be evidence that it has been discussed and agreed between staff.

I don't like staff usually but i like a more together staff/end.

 

[Cthulhu]

Yes, we do have a staff section, but we prefer to put decisions that affect everyone in public. We try to keep it reserved for specific member-oriented and reports and such only.

We (i.e. the admins) don't make the decisions, we only try to steer things into fitting with the general policy of things (which has, over time, been flexible, just so you know).

And it doesn't have to be agreed to by all staff, just as long as the members approve of it, . Staff are my bitches, they bow at my every whim and love it.

 

[Celes Chere]

I liked that on ACF staff would be equal

LOL yeah right. >>

 

[paoo]

I have to say this.

It seems like some of you guys are alot of nicer, than before. Or maybe I'm more mature... (Errrh, no?) And I feel alot more comfortable with that. Before you could just insult me right away. But well.. not all people are going to like you, or agree with you. I understand that. I'm just happy that we can discuss things more calmly.

 

[Max Payne]

LOL yeah right. >>

Were you even on ACF?

But yeah that's bullshit.