Ok, there's something we need to talk about

[Pixel]

They should get some warm clothing from the guy at Gaia Cliff after they pass out. I think it cuts to them in Junon after that whole black materia thing, so they wouldnt be in alt outfits for long.

 

[55-]

Or maybe everyone can buy coats!-

Actually, I'd love outfit changes throughout the game to fit the environment. Like - I don't care if everyone is in swim wear in Costa Del Sol (I'm from Arizona - and I can say that women here wear as little clothing as possible when we can get away with it - at U of A it was common to see shirtless men and women in just sports bras or in swim wear - it's really freaking hot guys).

So like everyone can bundle up in the snow and wear less at the beach. I mean - the party is a bunch of wanter terrorists so why not wear whatever helps you blend in.

And more outfits to cosplay!

Re - Kuja - I wonder why everyone got up in arms about Mevius when his outfit wasn't any worse than Kuja. That said - I think Mevius was hot and what bothered me was they redesigned Mevius at the same time they were brushing off complaints about Cindy (whose design is equally stupid - equally for a mechanic but that's another topic).

But in general I agree. I'm fine with fan service, but I'd like it to be spread out. Sexy men, sexy women, conservative men, conservative women - all body types and fan service for all interests. So long as it's not constant fan service and only fan service geared towards men.

I'd lovvve it if they got coats. I love winter clothes. Even Cait Sith, I want to have a completely pointless coat.
I think it'd be cool for everyone to have more designs in general. For sure.

I hadn't heard about Mevius, but this design is rad. The kind of ridiculous character design that can only exist in fiction and will give cosplayers a challenge.
That is a frustrating story, for sure. I wouldn't let it destroy my opinion of SE though.

 

[Tennyo]

They should get some warm clothing from the guy at Gaia Cliff after they pass out. I think it cuts to them in Junon after that whole black materia thing, so they wouldnt be in alt outfits for long.

What about prison uniforms for Barret and Tifa? It would make sense.

 

[55-]

They should get some warm clothing from the guy at Gaia Cliff after they pass out. I think it cuts to them in Junon after that whole black materia thing, so they wouldnt be in alt outfits for long.

They could just buy new clothes in Icicle Lodge.
They could just put clothing stores all over the place. It could be a purely vanity thing, where you don't have to change their outfits if you don't want to, but if you wanna put them in reasonable clothing for story reasons, you have that option.
Then other stuff like, you can win a moogle costume from mog's house and dress people up like moogles.

 

[CameoAmalthea]

I think having coats making you less likely to freeze would be a cool mechanic - since not freezing is a game mechanic all ready.

Also omg Cait Sith in a coat would be adorable! Also Nanaki in a coat!

 

[trash panda]

Plus, PLUS they make little booties for dogs so they don't damage their paws on ice. Just saying.

 

[Tennyo]

They could just buy new clothes in Icicle Lodge.
They could just put clothing stores all over the place. It could be a purely vanity thing, where you don't have to change their outfits if you don't want to, but if you wanna put them in reasonable clothing for story reasons, you have that option.
Then other stuff like, you can win a moogle costume from mog's house and dress people up like moogles.

This.

This is genius.

 

[Roger]

Maybe I described this poorly. It felt more manufactured to me in VII. I couldn't understand why Tifa would care so much about this asshole, that her entire world and existence becomes about taking care of him.

She cares about him, he's one of the last survivors of her hometown besides herself, she also knows AVALANCHE needs his expertise. And then over the course of the game she falls in love with him. You perception that Cloud is and asshole and nothing beyond that is what's skewed here, not Tifa's characterisation.

 

[CameoAmalthea]

I feel like Nanaki being dressed up needs to be a thing - and they must keep Sailor Suit Nanaki. Also the party trying to pass off Nanaki as their dog or something - just embarrassing Nanaki with silly outfits.

And IMHO - Cloud really does come across as an asshole at the beginning of the game and I couldn't help but feel that, if I were Tifa, I wouldn't put up with it.

That said - He is one of the last survivors of Tifa's hometown so they have that bond and Tifa is probably questioning her own memories of things - so she has reasons to want to be around Cloud/ keep him around.

 

[Pixel]

They could just buy new clothes in Icicle Lodge.
They could just put clothing stores all over the place. It could be a purely vanity thing, where you don't have to change their outfits if you don't want to, but if you wanna put them in reasonable clothing for story reasons, you have that option.
Then other stuff like, you can win a moogle costume from mog's house and dress people up like moogles.

Eh, I played X-2 already. lol

 

[trash panda]

"Sir, no exotic animals are allowed to board the ship at Junon Harbor."

"...This is my service Akita..."

 

[Jason Tandro]

They could just buy new clothes in Icicle Lodge.
They could just put clothing stores all over the place. It could be a purely vanity thing, where you don't have to change their outfits if you don't want to, but if you wanna put them in reasonable clothing for story reasons, you have that option.
Then other stuff like, you can win a moogle costume from mog's house and dress people up like moogles.

I gotta be honest, I kind of did this exact thing with FFXIII-2 on Steam, cause it came with a lot of the DLC outfits. So in beach and jungle she wears her skimpy mc-skimpsalot outfit. In normal climates, normal outfit. In cold or wet climates she wears her "white mage" warm outfit. Same with Noel. It actually added to the immersion quite a bit.

 

[Tetsujin]

I like the idea of changing outfits - or at the very least alterations to their iconic outfits depending on the climate.
I'm not gonna like it too much though because they're not gonna do it.

 

[clowd]

lol Okay. That's unfortunate. But oh well, your loss I guess.

Im up for changing lots of things, but I have to draw the line at completely swapping out a character's iconic outfit. That goes for every character in the game.

Besides, I've always really liked Tifa's outfit. All the colors go together very well and like Barret's clothes it felt very late 80s early 90s. And it gelled very well with everyone else's clothes. Her Advent Children outfit was hyper bland. The idea of being stuck with something like that for most of the game terrifies me.

 

[55-]

She cares about him, he's one of the last survivors of her hometown besides herself, she also knows AVALANCHE needs his expertise. And then over the course of the game she falls in love with him. You perception that Cloud is and asshole and nothing beyond that is what's skewed here, not Tifa's characterisation.

You can not talk me out of feeling the way I feel about Cloud.
I always saw him as childish, annoying, detached, and utterly devoid of any redeeming qualities. When you find out he's been floating in a test tube for 5 years, so he's basically a 16 year old, it makes a lot of sense.
Cloud is a teenager who has an incredibly difficult time understanding how to interact with other people. He doesn't have a bad heart, he's just a big idiot.
I think the fact that he's so incredibly human ain't too bad of a quality for a game's "hero" to have. The fact that he stumbles and struggles and is full of fear and self doubt, but still is the guiding force in the party destroying Sephiroth, I think that makes for a good story.
I just, never really could understand why Tifa could possibly care about him. It comes off as this incredibly one-sided thing. Dialogue options allow you to be super mean to Tifa and no matter what, they're always gonna end up together whether Cloud is into her or not, because she's into him.
That is not a recipe for a healthy relationship. There should be more balance. Relationships aren't about one person taking care of the other person like they are their child, reciprocation is important. We don't know if Cloud loves Tifa or not, or else LTD wouldn't exist.
As someone with a bad habit of caring more about the happiness and well-being of romantic partners than my own happiness, I have conflicting feelings about it. On the one hand, I admire people that are even better than I am at being selfless and caring and full of unconditional love. I admire Tifa. But on the other hand, I worry about narratives depicting that. It's always horribly gendered, there's no getting around that. Men are allowed to be flawed and confused and struggle and women are supposed to be there for them and be patient with them. Unconditionally. No matter how they're treated in return. It's like every dumb sitcom with the bumbling husband and beautiful wife trope. I couldn't understand why Tifa would be willing to disregard her desires and her identity and worry solely about the well-being of this guy with no redeeming qualities who has never done a thing for her, and I assumed it was because, that's the male fantasy ain't it? Hot girl loves you no matter how dumb and flawed you are.
That being said, I will stand by her gaining depth later that justifies her self-sacrificing nature as something central to her character, rather than manufactured and incomprehensible. I have a lot more sympathy for her than I used to. I admire her patience and her kindness. Still think it's an imbalanced relationship, but I think they addressed that complex nature of it in On the Way to a Smile.

 

[55-]

Eh, I played X-2 already. lol

Also, Cait Sith outfit for Cait Sith.

 

[CameoAmalthea]

I like the idea of changing outfits - or at the very least alterations to their iconic outfits depending on the climate.
I'm not gonna like it too much though because they're not gonna do it.

It would be such a good marketing opportunity though - multiple plushies and merchandize - licensed cosplays.

I mean, they're all about adding realism like in XV with the game mechanics encouraging you to camp at night - why not have clothing changes too?

But yeah, unlikely to happen, even though it's brilliant.

 

[clowd]

55- If you thought Tifa and Cloud's relationship was one sided, then I wonder what you think about Squall and Rinoa's from Final Fantasy VIII. That was taking it to another level. Squall made Cloud look like Romeo. And still almost every female in that game was throwing themselves at him.

Now to be fair I've seen a fair share of movies where the woman in a relationship is a real pain in the neck but the man still follows her around loyally. Benjamin Button is an example.

 

[55-]

LOL, I never liked Squall. It's been a long time since I played the game through entirely. I replayed a lil bit with a friend recently and we left off like, right after that scene right there, with Quistis. I am willing to be a bit more cool with that scene, since I know that Squall has a trajectory and who knows, maybe he's not such an asshat later. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
He just seems so straightforwardly rude there that I can't imagine you're supposed to like him at the start of the game. Though I guess Cloud is the same way.

And yeah I'm sure there are representations of self-sacrificing men in straight relationships out there in media. It's not like it doesn't happen in reality, and there are no aspects of reality that fiction hasn't depicted at some point or another. I just feel like there is a long standing tradition of women being the caretakers and men being the receivers. Though granted, I'm coming from the biased position of being a ghost ship

Spoiler

(woman)

who's been in a lot relationships with men that felt equally as imbalanced and maybe I only have eyes for the stories that resonate with my experience.

 

[55-]

I like the idea of changing outfits - or at the very least alterations to their iconic outfits depending on the climate.
I'm not gonna like it too much though because they're not gonna do it.

I actually think that everyone dressing the way that they do on the Gaea cliffs is gonna look far, far more ridiculous and silly in HD than turn-based gameplay. I'd be surprised if they didn't do different outfits for at least the Gaea Cliffs and Costa Del Sol.

 

[Starling]

You can not talk me out of feeling the way I feel about Cloud.
I always saw him as childish, annoying, detached, and utterly devoid of any redeeming qualities. When you find out he's been floating in a test tube for 5 years, so he's basically a 16 year old, it makes a lot of sense.
Cloud is a teenager who has an incredibly difficult time understanding how to interact with other people. He doesn't have a bad heart, he's just a big idiot.
I think the fact that he's so incredibly human ain't too bad of a quality for a game's "hero" to have. The fact that he stumbles and struggles and is full of fear and self doubt, but still is the guiding force in the party destroying Sephiroth, I think that makes for a good story.
I just, never really could understand why Tifa could possibly care about him. It comes off as this incredibly one-sided thing. Dialogue options allow you to be super mean to Tifa and no matter what, they're always gonna end up together whether Cloud is into her or not, because she's into him.
That is not a recipe for a healthy relationship. There should be more balance. Relationships aren't about one person taking care of the other person like they are their child, reciprocation is important. We don't know if Cloud loves Tifa or not, or else LTD wouldn't exist.
As someone with a bad habit of caring more about the happiness and well-being of romantic partners than my own happiness, I have conflicting feelings about it. On the one hand, I admire people that are even better than I am at being selfless and caring and full of unconditional love. I admire Tifa. But on the other hand, I worry about narratives depicting that. It's always horribly gendered, there's no getting around that. Men are allowed to be flawed and confused and struggle and women are supposed to be there for them and be patient with them. Unconditionally. No matter how they're treated in return. It's like every dumb sitcom with the bumbling husband and beautiful wife trope. I couldn't understand why Tifa would be willing to disregard her desires and her identity and worry solely about the well-being of this guy with no redeeming qualities who has never done a thing for her, and I assumed it was because, that's the male fantasy ain't it? Hot girl loves you no matter how dumb and flawed you are.
That being said, I will stand by her gaining depth later that justifies her self-sacrificing nature as something central to her character, rather than manufactured and incomprehensible. I have a lot more sympathy for her than I used to. I admire her patience and her kindness. Still think it's an imbalanced relationship, but I think they addressed that complex nature of it in On the Way to a Smile.

Cloud may start off cold and standoffish but that's part of a fabricated personality. Even by the time you meet Aerith, he starts letting up on that. By the time he sets his memories straight, he's a lot nicer to everyone.

Tifa knows something's not right with Cloud. She wanted to keep him around to make sure he was alright as well as because he's all she has left of Nibelheim. Cloud may have issues but Tifa isn't perfect either. Her self-doubt prevents her from speaking up in time to avoid stuff like Cloud's breakdown and bombing reactors isn't exactly the best way to deal with what happened to her hometown. In the lifestream, Cloud admits he has feelings for Tifa, making it reciprocated. Dialogue options may give the player some choice in how they interact with characters but if the game has a story to tell, that story takes precedence over whatever the player can choose to do or not do. For example, you can choose not to go to Wutai but it's considered canon that the party did.

 

[55-]

I get that Cloud has a trajectory and there comes a point in the game when he realizes he was being a big dick to everyone and apologizes for it. But he never stops being cold and distant. That's kinda his whole thing in AC/Case of Tifa.

Also, he does not admit to having feelings for Tifa in the lifestream, he admits to having had feelings for her when he was a child. That's not the same thing. Do not try to tell me you have the key to putting LTD to rest. Whether Cloud has feelings for Tifa is vague and undefined and left up to interpretation. And player choice.

Also I'm sick of hearing about how Cloud is all Tifa has left of Nibelheim. I am well aware of that narrative justification, but no matter how many times I hear it it is not going to feel like anything other than a contrived excuse. It's equally as absurd to me as the whole "Rufus didn't know anything about deepground because he was sworn in too fast to be briefed on the project." It's an excuse, but I ain't buyin' it.

 

[Jason Tandro]

Also I'm sick of hearing about how Cloud is all Tifa has left of Nibelheim. I am well aware of that narrative justification, but no matter how many times I hear it it is not going to feel like anything other than a contrived excuse. It's equally as absurd to me as the whole "Rufus didn't know anything about deepground because he was sworn in too fast to be briefed on the project." It's an excuse, but I ain't buyin' it.

As much as I love the fact that you too are on board with the whole not buying the 15 second dialogue explanation for the MASSIVE SUPERSOLDIER NATION UNDERNEATH MIDGAR, I have to say the two aren't the same thing.

First off, you can't use a screencap from the first 15 minutes of the game when Cloud is clearly putting on a front as evidence for his whole character.

Secondly a large part of Cloud's distant nature is based around the fact that this memory isn't his own. He's running on Zack 2.0 and it's possible that some elements of his character came along with that, including a relative indifference to Tifa.

The reason TLD is so pervasive is because of that strange hybrid that Cloud is. We don't know for sure if Cloud's feelings for Aeris's are his own feelings or Zack's feelings. While I don't argue anything as gospel, it's entirely possible that the OTP here is Zack/Aeris and Cloud/Tifa but we have no way of knowing that.

Rather than a 30 second BS excuse, the "sole survivor" complex built around Cloud is more or less crucial to his purpose in the plot. And not because Tifa needs an emotional crutch but because this status is what forces the recall segment in the Great Northern Cave and later in the Lifestream.


Also, I liked Squall and FF8 but I'm clearly on the unpopular team there. The main problem with Squall was that they wanted the game to have a "School days" aesthetic and what's a super popular anime trope? That distant emotionless badass kid who doesn't care about anybody and yet everybody inexplicably likes. Seriously Squall, everybody loves you, why are you so sad?

And I get that it's lingering feelings of loss over Ellone leaving him as a kid but... honestly THAT felt like a 30-second BS to cover some gaping plot hole.

 

[Starling]

I get that Cloud has a trajectory and there comes a point in the game when he realizes he was being a big dick to everyone and apologizes for it. But he never stops being cold and distant. That's kinda his whole thing in AC/Case of Tifa.

Also, he does not admit to having feelings for Tifa in the lifestream, he admits to having had feelings for her when he was a child. That's not the same thing. Do not try to tell me you have the key to putting LTD to rest. Whether Cloud has feelings for Tifa is vague and undefined and left up to interpretation. And player choice.

Also I'm sick of hearing about how Cloud is all Tifa has left of Nibelheim. I am well aware of that narrative justification, but no matter how many times I hear it it is not going to feel like anything other than a contrived excuse. It's equally as absurd to me as the whole "Rufus didn't know anything about deepground because he was sworn in too fast to be briefed on the project." It's an excuse, but I ain't buyin' it.

His feelings for Tifa in the lifestream sequence are presented in a manner that suggests they're still the same. Cloud did stop being cold and distant. ACC was a relapse which considering what he's been through, is somewhat understandable if not executed as well as it could've been. We are led to believe he pulled himself together for good by the end of the movie and DoC sticks by that based on what's shown and mentioned of Cloud and Tifa.

Tifa cared enough about Cloud to get him to promise to come back and help her out if she was ever in trouble. After he left Nibelheim, she thought a lot about him and even took the time to see if she could find any mention of him in the newspapers, as well as hoping he'd be sent to Nibelheim when Zack and Sephiroth went there, getting discouraged when she didn't see him. This shows that she developed feelings for him somewhere around the time he left and still felt some of that when she found him again 7 years later. If any other inhabitants of Nibelheim are around, Tifa didn't stay in contact with them, leaving just Cloud, whom she wasn't willing to just leave where she found him when he clearly wasn't quite right. She was unsure what to do about the discrepancies in how she remembered what happened to Nibelheim and how Cloud remembered it and the only way to get to the bottom of that would be to keep him around.

As for Cloud's feelings for Tifa, she's the reason he tried to join SOLDIER and his false personality is at least partially based on what he thought Tifa wanted him to be. When confronting Sephiroth at the North Crater, it wasn't until Tifa's doubts about Cloud were brought up that he started losing it. When they fall into the lifestream, Tifa calls out to Cloud and ends up in his mind. It seems to be implied this is why she didn't suffer any ill effects from being in the lifestream. Then, there's the highwind scene where they discuss their feelings and such. After the OG, they stay together and end up raising Denzel and Marlene when they could've went on to live separately like everyone else did. All of this points towards Cloud still having feelings for Tifa throughout all those years, in some form or another.

Also, whether or not Rufus is just pretending he never knew about Deepground, it's unlikely any of the executives that were privy to it bothered telling him during the OG after which they're all dead and Deepground is apparently left to fend for itself anyway. I recall their rebellion against the Restrictors being set during the OG anyway so they probably lost contact by then.

 

[55-]

First off, you can't use a screencap from the first 15 minutes of the game when Cloud is clearly putting on a front as evidence for his whole character.

I didn't intend to. I just thought it was silly that someone was trying to convince me Cloud's not an asshole when there are a lot of moments in the game where he's being just hilariously, inexcusably rude to people, and it's totally uncalled for. I remember one time realizing that because of dialogue options for the whole date mechanic, right after you leave Midgar for the first time, it give you 3 separate opportunities to be a dick to Aeris, Tifa, and Barret. How about that time he ditches Aeris in the seediest area of Wall Market so he can go get it on with Honeybee Inn ladies?

Sorry, don't like Cloud, won't like Cloud, can't be talked into liking Cloud. Not that I hate him, though. I've always seen him like a little brother. He's dumb and embarrassing, but he's family.

I honestly think that Clouds feelings about Tifa are left intentionally vague, since the game wants your experience to be partially subjective.
That's why they want you to believe that whoever YOU guide Cloud to go on his date with, that's who Cloud's in love with in your version of the game. FFVII was really confused about whether it wanted to be subjective or objective storytelling. That's what the date mechanic comes out of, and that's why you can change character's names. This was a really bad decision, imo, because it is an objective story. Cloud is not you, he is a character. You shouldn't be able to choose for him who he loves. But they tried to make it so you can. It's like how in X-2, Yuna awkwardly dodges around saying Tidus's name, because that character's supposed to be named whatever you named him. Which is so odd, because he's a character with a very distinct and defined personality, he's not an avatar. This isn't FF1, u feel me? It took them so long to embrace the idea of characters being characters.