ForceStealer
Double Growth
Seriously. &@^% Zubats. I don't even bother clicking on them anymore.
Pokémon Go!
- Thread starter X-SOLDIER
- Start date
ForceStealer
Double Growth
It's the ONLY way I catch pokemon, but zubats are STILL a pain to hit.
X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
While holding the Poké Ball with your finger, just spin it in little circles and then toss it diagonally and it'll curve back to the Pokémon. (Note: You get credit for a Curveball and 10XP regardless of where the circle's at, but if you land it in the circle when it's big/bedium/small is when you get the 10/50/100XP bonus for Nice/Great/Excellent)
X
X
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
The difference in rewards between LV 30 and LV 20 really doesn't strike me as much.Because less reward -- or even the same reward -- for more work is poor game design.
Just to clarify, the actual level rewards are still much, MUCH greater than the previous ones as you progress:
And to further clarify, the kind of rewards we're talking about here are the individual rewards you get each time you take on a new Pokémon being the same whether that Pokémon is a 12 CP Pidgey or a 1200 CP Aerodactyl. That's ridiculous.
Even if the level-up rewards were substantially better, excusing this kind of absurdity on that basis makes as much sense as this kind of logic: "Well, at Level 60, Zidane and crew can more easily defeat Grand Dragons than at Level 14, and the stat increases they'll get from Level 60 to Level 61 are way better than what they'll get from Level 14 to Level 15 ... so we can totally justify these Grand Dragons above the Moogle's hideout offering the same amount of EXP, Gil and AP as the shitty Skeletons right below in Gizamaluke's Grotto. Players won't be mad if they manage to defeat one of these things at low levels only to find out they could have gotten the same rewards for not taking on the tougher monster!"
It's been documented at this point (I linked to an example) that even Pokés at the lowest of CP become likely to escape when your Trainer level gets very high. You're actively punished for having played more/longer.X said:
X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
I think it all comes down to how much you value the items themselves, based on how you play. Again, you're looking at a game that has to be fairly scalable between users of vastly different levels of experience.
...Except that one of them rewards you with a 12 CP Pidgey, and the other rewards you with a 1200 CP Aerodactyl.
It's a bad analogy trying to parallel it to FFIX, because if you got the same rewards from every battle, but that monster joined your team, it'd be a totally different mechanic.
Seriously, if catch rewards of XP, Candy, & Stardust were scaled to the difficulty of the Pokémon, the higher level players would become completely untouchable INCREDIBLY fast. The biggest thing about games like this is that your higher level players CANNOT be allowed to break the game such that it's suddenly inaccessible to lower level players. Also, it's far less competitive than Ingress was (which encouraged leveling more aggressively)
Ingress started with 8 levels:
1: 0
2: 10,000
3: 30,000
4: 70,000
5: 150,000
6: 300,000
7: 600,000
8: 1,200,000
Then they expanded to 8 more levels:
9: 2,400,000 + 1 gold & 4 silver medals
10: 4,000,000 + 2 gold & 5 silver medals
11: 6,000,000 + 4 gold & 6 silver medals
12: 8,400,000 + 6 gold & 7 silver medals
13: 12,000,000 + 1 platinum & 7 gold medals
14: 17,000,000 + 2 platinum & 7 gold medals
15: 24,000,000 + 3 platinum & 7 gold medals
16: 40,000,000 + 2 black, 4 platinum, & 7 gold medals
And the hardcore players STILL managed to get there in droves (If you wanna know more about what earned you AP, there’s this little quick guide: http://decodeingress.me/ingress-manual/leveling/ ). Also, both games are MEANT to be a progression of leveling that slows down as you approach its Cap. Pokémon GO has only been out for 20 days, and we’ve got data about everything up to level 35 already.
But why are they both like that?
Let's get a specific example from GO:
• It's 210,000 XP to go from 1-20 in Pokémon GO.
• It's 235,000 XP to go from 20-23 in Pokémon GO.
That's because as soon as you get Ultra Balls at Lv20, there aren't ANY other items that are currently available that help with collecting Pokémon. If you're playing just to collecting them, leveling up isn't going to be a factor in playing for you at all.
However.
If you're playing to compete at Gyms and have ultra tough Pokémon, it IS going to be a factor for you, and that's why you're going to be up against people who will actively power level the everliving FUCK out of the game (I saw a level 23 player with a CP 2413 Dragonite the other day, and my best Pokémon is a 1572 Nidoking at level 21).
The other players who DON'T do this still have to be able to compete at random Gyms, but the people who work for their high level Pokémon and save up that Stardust will start to earn it, and when they work as a team, they'll be able to hold certain Gyms at Lv 10 VERY well, but that also means that they have to focus on if they're defending or attacking Gyms, because spending Stardust on a Pokémon is expensive and they can't be used to attack while they're defending a Gym.
tl;dr – It's about maintaining the game's sustainability over a prolonged period of time with the competitive aspect of the game, while still allowing beginner players to have a chance at all parts of the game whenever they start playing. It might seem crazy, but it worked SUPER well for Ingress, so I'd wait and see if it still seems that crazy in a few months.
The only example I've found that you've linked that mentions it was this one which only has a quote from a single player commenting on the difficult they were supposedly having – which isn't something I'd base an analysis of the actual game mechanics on.
Again, YMMV because I've had a more difficult time with various random Pokémon after hitting 12, but my girlfriend hasn't experienced ANY noticeable difference yet and she's hitting Lv 17 now (I'm midway through 21). Additionally, both of us still catch CP 10 Pokémon without any issue.
It seems to be that when you start, most Pokémon you run into are green or yellow, whereas when you're a higher level, most of them are orange or yellow. I know that there's game data that's suggested things get harder as you level up, but I have yet to have seen anyone actually break down what any of that data means outside of a subjective experience (which is all the higher-level play data is at this point).
X
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
Well, call it a subjective experience if you want, but my own matches what we've been hearing. I'm going to be crossing over into LV 12 whenever this egg hatches any minute now, and not an hour ago I had a 58 CP Pidgey give me one chance to capture it, break out of the ball, and immediately run away. That sort of thing is becoming more and more frequent and I'm not even at LV 12.
More to the point, though, capturing higher CP Pokémon should at least reward you with more candy. I can accept the argument about keeping gym battles competitive since we're talking about a game with two sides to it (collecting and battling), so stardust maybe shouldn't be scaled -- but the collection aspect (the main interest for most of us) is not inherently competitive like the battling. And doesn't need to be.
Maybe some of these flaws are unavoidable when trying to combine what is essentially two different games (a trinket collection game and a stat-based, reflex-involved fighting game) that are built making use of the same basic starting point (capturing animals in the wild to fulfill both purposes), but they are inarguably flaws when approaching the matter from the collection angle. I won't budge on that point.
Disagree. At higher levels, more evolved/uncommon Pokémon appear for you.X said:
More to the point, though, capturing higher CP Pokémon should at least reward you with more candy. I can accept the argument about keeping gym battles competitive since we're talking about a game with two sides to it (collecting and battling), so stardust maybe shouldn't be scaled -- but the collection aspect (the main interest for most of us) is not inherently competitive like the battling. And doesn't need to be.
Maybe some of these flaws are unavoidable when trying to combine what is essentially two different games (a trinket collection game and a stat-based, reflex-involved fighting game) that are built making use of the same basic starting point (capturing animals in the wild to fulfill both purposes), but they are inarguably flaws when approaching the matter from the collection angle. I won't budge on that point.
ForceStealer
Double Growth
As mentioned before, the combat being what it is, I find the loyalty to the factions to be rather inane.
That said, this is pretty hilarious.
That said, this is pretty hilarious.
X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
Like I said, everything I know about it at this point is all subjective and I don't know the proper mechanics that drive it, so I'm hesitant to say anything about it. Hell, even learning that hitting the Pokémon when the circle is at its smallest increases capture chance has made a big difference for me.
wat.
All normal or lured Pokémon are generated on the map for all users, so that cannot POSSIBLY be true. That's the whole reason that maps and other apps that display nearby Pokémon locations even work.
Literally the only exception to this that are user-unique Pokémon are the ones that you bring in with Incense, and those ones still spawn according to the same rules about terrain, nests, etc.
Again, because candy is specific to both Evolving and Powering Up those Pokémon, if you get more candy for higher CP Pokémon, you're still making it easier for higher level players to outpace the others. About the only thing that I think should give you more Candy in this game is trading in a 2nd or 3rd Evolution to the Professor.
There're still other mechanics when it comes to collection like finding the locations of Pokémon Nests with your local community, hatching eggs (that give you more candy than normal catches), etc. I really don't see any issues, because leveling up past 20 literally has zero impact on collection. I've been playing for about 2 weeks now and have 90/92 of the 142(?) currently available Pokémon.
X
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
I'm glad you don't see issues -- but you also said Ingress's leveling model was done well. Whereas elsewhere I see people who have played both games saying "At least this isn't Ingress again." =P
Anywho, I don't know shit about that game, but to respond to this point
This is the first I'm hearing that such a mechanic isn't supposed to be part of the game.
Anywho, I don't know shit about that game, but to respond to this point
Not if stardust isn't scaled in the same way. You need candy and stardust to increase CP, so giving more candy for higher CP Pokés wouldn't affect anything but the collection side of the game.X said:
It absolutely should, yes. That's another example of the flawed scaling.X said:
I can't speak to what the game is ostensibly supposed to do with this then. I just know I've seen other players say this, and that it matches my own experience (again). I've stayed 4-5 levels ahead of my girlfriend, and it's not unusual for her to be standing right next to me and to see Spearows on her list where I see Fearows.X said:
This is the first I'm hearing that such a mechanic isn't supposed to be part of the game.
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Claymore
3x3 Eyes
I've been reading you guy's interesting discussion about Go's mechanics but I just wanted to chime in on this point. I have been playing alongside my housemate and we are at least 7 levels apart and there is definitely a difference in the Pokemon that spawn on the list and in the area.
X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
I hate to come off sounding like "that guy" but I work with a bunch of programmers and engineers who all also play the game, and we have things like an App set up to alert us to what Pokémon are within 200m of our office every 10 mins that functions using the Pokémon GO APIs.
I can tell you with complete certainty that the Pokémon that spawn in an area are 100% the same for all players there, regardless of their level (again, with the only exception being ones that appear just to you when you use Incense on yourself). You can go look at something like http://pokevision.com/ and see what Pokémon are at any given location, because the Pokémon that are spawned in the world are identical for all users. If they changed on a per-level-basis, Apps like that wouldn't work globally, because it would all be spawning off of single-user-specific data (like Incense does).
It's the same reason that if there's a rare Pokémon that spawns somewhere, EVERYONE can run over and catch it (something I got to do with an Aerodactyl downtown last weekend).
X
Strangelove
AI Researcher
- AKA
- hitoshura
X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
Another point worth making about the level curve:
Because the maximum CP Limit for your Pokémon goes up every level, sinking Stardust and Candy into Pokémon to power them up doesn't actually pay off as a tactic to get better Pokémon UNTIL your level advancing slows. Earlier on, you're better off just catching or evolving other Pokémon to get stronger ones, rather than using the Power Up option, because the ones you sink it into will be vastly outclassed by duplicates several levels later. Once level progression slows, you won't be shifting that limit very frequently, and you'll have more available Stardust per level increment as a result, so working to max out certain Pokémon with the movesets that you want starts to be a MUCH better tactic.
X
Because the maximum CP Limit for your Pokémon goes up every level, sinking Stardust and Candy into Pokémon to power them up doesn't actually pay off as a tactic to get better Pokémon UNTIL your level advancing slows. Earlier on, you're better off just catching or evolving other Pokémon to get stronger ones, rather than using the Power Up option, because the ones you sink it into will be vastly outclassed by duplicates several levels later. Once level progression slows, you won't be shifting that limit very frequently, and you'll have more available Stardust per level increment as a result, so working to max out certain Pokémon with the movesets that you want starts to be a MUCH better tactic.
X
Shademp
420
Because you chose the least popular team, you chooser-of-least-popular-team-person you!Gawd damn it, why all the Yellow hate?
Claymore
3x3 Eyes
Because you chose the least popular team, you chooser-of-least-popular-team-person you!Gawd damn it, why all the Yellow hate?
*Whistles innocently and backs out of thread*